Ingame Song Information

[HoneyMelonCalibrator]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

I think that the difficulty scale should be expanded. Meaning rather than measuring a song's difficulty on a scale of 1 to 13, maybe songs could be measured from 1 - x. X being whatever new number the difficulties expand to.

This way it would be more distinct which file contains what difficulty. I know that right now people refer to songs as "low 10", "mid VC" or "high 11" etc. Why not create a new system of measurement that distinguishes the differences? You would still be able to refer to songs as VD, VC, FMO and FGO but rather than those titles referring to one level of difficulty, they could refer to a range of difficulties? Like for example you could be like "FMOS are songs ranged from difficulty x to z, but at the same time, a player would be able to distinguish x, y, and z (all FMOS) in terms of increasing difficulty. I don't think this would be too hard, either.. considering songs already have difficulty numbers associated with them. They're just not publicly displayed on the main screen.

Thoughts?

[foxfire667]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

What if we were to link the difficulty of the file to how many AAAs/FCs that file currently has in relation to every other song in the game?

For example, say the number of FCs on a file are worth one point each, and the number of AAAs on the same file are worth three points... every song in the game can be ordered in difficulty with respect to how many 'points' each song has. So, atm (I'm assuming) Trip to the Moon would be 1, and vrofl would be 907...and then instead of arguing if a song should be FMO or VC or whatever when a song has too many AAAs, the song will just move down in difficulty if it begins to accumulate more points than other songs that had a higher number of points previously. Obviously the difficulties would change when new files are introduced into the game but it wouldn't take longer than probably a week or so for those songs to find an area around their rightful difficulties...and if a difficulty scale of close to 1,000 is too high, we could group songs to one difficulty level in groups of 5 or 10, and just the lowest or highest song in each group would move to the next highest/lowest difficulty level when the difficulties change due to increased point totals.

This could be a good idea, although I believe that it is taking a "perfect world" approach in terms of every person having played all of the songs, and the variation on that song being able to be analyzed that way. If everyone who played FFR actively played every single song in the game (which is rather hard considering you'd need to play all 767 public, plus unlock all 102 skill tokens, all 35 regular tokens, and all 3 support tokens) then of coarse because of their varying skill levels, we would probably be able to determine how hard a song is. Considering, however, that this is not the case, it would be tough to base it on FC's and AAA's alone. Let's take token whore, as an example. They're are only 96 actual scores on this song, 92 of which are AAA's...and although this song is easy, it would be ranked much higher in difficulty because so few people actually have the song.

Although, we could average out the total number of different players in relation to the number of FC's and AAA's (which could be assigned different values). This might cancel out the fact that only x amount of players have played a certain song. But then again, everyone who has unlocked Token Whore has the skill to at least AAA an FMO, so this would also be rather one sided. How this would fair in finding a universal difficulty for all of the songs would be tough to say. If you want to average out difficulty, this might work (but might result in some BS calls for songs with sudden difficulty spikes, or for songs that only people who are really good at the game can play) Could be interesting to toy around with to see if something useful could be derived from it in terms of identifying difficulty.

[Patashu]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

What if we were to link the difficulty of the file to how many AAAs/FCs that file currently has in relation to every other song in the game?

-snip-

Anything that works on raw totals will obviously be flawed, as it treats newer files/files with less plays explicitly different from those with more.
Please read this and be enlightened as to how bayesian rating systems work:

http://www.andymoore.ca/2010/02/bayesian-ratings-your-salvation-for-user-generated-content/

http://www.thebroth.com/blog/118/bayesian-rating

http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~cook/m...an_sortin.html

When reading, replace in your head 'voting' and 'rating' with 'playing' and 'your score' and so on.

[jimerax]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

Just integrated ingame song thread with this one, and changed the thread title (yay for sticky -1).

Now we have 13 pages of Misc songs, and only 12 Hip-Hop songs and 6 Funk songs.
So I think we need to do something about those genres.

(Idea 1)
Integrate Funk and Hip-Hop, then use one of those genres as Misc 2.

(Idea 2)
Move jazzy songs from Misc to Funk, then move Hip-Hop songs to Misc, use Hip-Hop genre as Misc 2.

opinions?

[MrMagic5239]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

What about just combining Hip-Hop and Funk together?

And then using the left over genre for the legacy genre instead of recreating a whole new genre out of the support token one.

[bmah]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

Although I agree on integrating categories with few songs, such as funk, why not create categories for the multitude of songs that share a genre that doesn't have its own category?

Misc 2 is way too vague; it's like some big "blob" of a category that should be divided a bit. Heck, why not make a jazz (J) category? There's actually a lot of jazz songs, and I know people will submit more jazzy songs. I also think there should be a Techno & Trance (T) category, to separate it from "Dance". Dance itself is extremely unspecific for a category.

I'd say only get rid of the funk category and put those songs elsewhere. I don't recommend eliminating the hip hop category. In fact, I'm making a hip hop file soon (and a funk one too, but there's way too little songs for the funk category to stay).

A category too broad like "dance" and "misc" results in a huge amount of files that isn't search-friendly. You might as well use the search list instead.

[OneHandNow]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

Lol. The entire genre system needs to be reworked.

Dance, Dance 2, Funk, Hip Hop, Arcade, Classic, Rock, and Misc?

Funk/HipHop are basically empty sections..
Dance 2 is a jumble of anything "electronic/trance-y", while Misc is a jumble of IDM, jazz, electronica, drum and bass, basically anything that's vague.

I say we get some more specific genres like Trance, Breakbeat, etc..

[jimerax]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

Yeah Jazz, Pops, DnB(Breakcore) should be there as new genres, but it requires a major change in the engine (won't be done until velo engine at least).

Funk and Hip-Hop don't have enough songs for their own genres so they just could be in Misc, in contrast.

[bmah]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

Well ok, then the real answer is that the engine should undergo these major changes.

But for the short term, I guess what you have there is fine. I don't expect it to stay that way though.

[Coolboyrulez0]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

I say keep Hip-Hop/Rap/Nerdcore but infuse the Funk Genre into rock instead of misc seeing as that would simply be more logical.

Also I am all for the creation of Hardcore, DnB, Pop genres once the time is appropriate.

[Velocity]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

Yeah Jazz, Pops, DnB(Breakcore) should be there as new genres, but it requires a major change in the engine (won't be done until velo engine at least).

Funk and Hip-Hop don't have enough songs for their own genres so they just could be in Misc, in contrast.

I can update both the beta and velo engine for something that major.

[jimerax]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

OK the biggest issue we currently have is that Misc has 13 pages already and will get bigger soon, so require quick solutions for this (aka better song distribution).

I can update both the beta and velo engine for something that major.

oh nice. I'll talk to you about genres anyways.

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

Most of Funk and Misc could be put into two new Jazz (technical complex stuff) and Breakbeat (DnB etc) categories. There is really a minimal amount of actual funk music in FFR, whereas these two categories could have a pretty good amount of stuff. I like the concept of a Trance or Techno genre to take part of the Dance stuff. Hip-Hop doesn't have very many songs and maybe it could be turned into a Misc 2.

[Redorigami]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

I think a Jazz and a Breakcore category would both be very fitting and useful, and then you could probably safely throw all of funk and hip hop into misc

[Patashu]

Re: Ingame Song Informations

How about DnB instead of breakcore?

but yes good idea