Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

[Patashu]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

nyor~n

[kommisar[os]]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

stepmania witch hunt has begun


ps puppet get on aim

[QED Stepfiles]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

Hey, Kommi, this anime pack, is it a pad pack?

Oh--and I seen your "I'm gonna step this because it's been stepped 1000000000000000x times and I'm gonna try to beat it" chart (also known as Xepher).

In all honesty, there's absolutely no variation in your pattern usage, and that frankly has nothing to do with you deliberately choosing not to step certain areas of songs the right away. Even if you use your chart as an accompaniment, it's still no good if the patterns are just repeating staircases (pointing right at Xepher, again).

Thank you very much for your input. But that was really the point - I was focused much more on making the steps feel right (through pitch relevancy, etc.) than actual variation. This seems appropriate to me since truthfully, the background music that I'm stepping to has very little variation (I mean, it basically consists of a long sequences that sound almost like continuous arpeggiatos...). Being a pianist myself (or at least, having played for very long before my college workload went bat**** insane), I find myself often influenced by the aesthetic of the file being almost a type of sheet music, and in that respect it would have felt awkward at the very least if I tried to vary the patterns too much since such variation would have stood out way too much when juxtaposed with the relatively invariant source material. This is why I decided to stick with a relatively stable set of patterns.

This is what I want to stress: my target demographic is *NOT* the group of people who are yearning for technically based files for a challenge. Variation and technical sequences are secondary concerns of mine - first and foremost on my agenda are rhythm, symmetry, and musical accentuation. So yes, many people may not like my files for their "repetitiveness" and apparent lack of technical complexity, but that's fine with me. I write files to try to convey the sense that you're actually taking a part in the music rather than just tapping along to it. Empirical evidence suggests that I've been reasonably successful to that end.

The important part about enjoying my files is just to *relax*. For most of my files, being tense takes away a lot from the experience, and in this context my files are difficult to judge on a conventional sense.

So thank you to everyone who commented on my files. Even to those who critiqued them, thanks for your constructive criticism (at least, to those of you who made such comments to help out a fellow stepfile creator without any malicious intent). But I think the bottom line is that there's going to be a conflict if my files are put under the magnifying glass of conventional standards. I enjoy my files, there are other people who understand what I'm trying to do with my files, and to be able to give some people a measure of entertainment with my files is inspiring enough to keep me going, even in the face of a long established tradition.

Feel free to continue giving me advice/criticism, but please at least try to reconcile your comments with my style. I know this is difficult, especially when you're very used to a certain type of file, but such comments would not only make more sense in the context of this thread, but would actually help me try to improve my files within the confines of my developed style.

[Patashu]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

Xepher has a -huge- amount of pr during the two choruses. I know because I stepped it for solo~

I don't actually have the file atm or I'd show you

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

Thank you very much for your input. But that was really the point - I was focused much more on making the steps feel right (through pitch relevancy, etc.) than actual variation.

This isn't me attacking you, but being truthful--but what I seen was PR. Then again, I am judging on one file, but you hold true to your style strongly through this one file; it makes you seem like you step only one way, and that's not good.

This seems appropriate to me since truthfully, the background music that I'm stepping to has very little variation (I mean, it basically consists of a long sequences that sound almost like continuous arpeggiatos...). Being a pianist myself (or at least, having played for very long before my college workload went bat**** insane), I find myself often influenced by the aesthetic of the file being almost a type of sheet music, and in that respect it would have felt awkward at the very least if I tried to vary the patterns too much since such variation would have stood out way too much when juxtaposed with the relatively invariant source material. This is why I decided to stick with a relatively stable set of patterns.

It may seem like very little variation, but I too also play piano, alongside with trumpet and a bit of guitar. I do understand relative changes in pitch, and there are many more than what your patterns are offering. You may be trying to keep a simple pattern, but a non-varying pattern is boring, especially when some people have a musically-trained ear. If the aesthetic of the file is to be (almost) like a type of sheet music, then it just strengthens the need for more pitch-relevancy. It is possible to get good variation while making your patterns flow, just take a look at any good ITG file; 16th streams with good variation in patterns. Why do I bring this up? Some people happen to play index, which make patterns flow nearly identical. And while you may believe that the source is invariant, you're completely wrong; you have a song that demands a ton of difficulty, technicality, and you are not providing it. There's a difference between a good set of patterns, and then just poor usage.

This is what I want to stress: my target demographic is *NOT* the group of people who are yearning for technically based files for a challenge. Variation and technical sequences are secondary concerns of mine - first and foremost on my agenda are rhythm, symmetry, and musical accentuation. So yes, many people may not like my files for their "repetitiveness" and apparent lack of technical complexity, but that's fine with me. I write files to try to convey the sense that you're actually taking a part in the music rather than just tapping along to it. Empirical evidence suggests that I've been reasonably successful to that end.

While I do understand that your files are created for lower level players, the chart in discussion is a rather high level chart in comparison to other step-charts that you have made. Variation and technical sequences should not be secondary to you--especially with what you have noted here:

first and foremost on my agenda are rhythm, symmetry, and musical accentuation.

Obviously, rhythm does not have anything to do with variation/patterns, those are normally consistent. However, symmetry and musical accentuation are very important, and are tied deeply into pattern usage. Why is this? It goes back to the theory of pitch relevancy. Musical accentuation in best form is most noticeable through proper layering (i.e. representing a sound and assigning it to an arrow/specific pattern [Big SM steppers, please correct me if I'm wrong]). With that being said, you still have no excuse to explain your lack of variation.

The important part about enjoying my files is just to *relax*. For most of my files, being tense takes away a lot from the experience, and in this context my files are difficult to judge on a conventional sense.

Well--back to the level of difficulty, you said that your files cater to those who are still learning the game. If the point is for your players to have a calm, not frantic experience, you've provided the exact opposite with a chart like this. Not hard to me personally, but for someone who is still learning the game, this is ridiculous. Yes, you've noted that it's your own style that you picked up, and yes you've said it's tough to judge on a convention sense--this is because your patterns are unorthodox in comparison to common charts.

So thank you to everyone who commented on my files. Even to those who critiqued them, thanks for your constructive criticism (at least, to those of you who made such comments to help out a fellow stepfile creator without any malicious intent). But I think the bottom line is that there's going to be a conflict if my files are put under the magnifying glass of conventional standards. I enjoy my files, there are other people who understand what I'm trying to do with my files, and to be able to give some people a measure of entertainment with my files is inspiring enough to keep me going, even in the face of a long established tradition.

I totally understand that you are trying to provide your own style, but it might be more beneficial to you to step a different style? Maybe combine both? I don't really know what to tell you here.

Feel free to continue giving me advice/criticism, but please at least try to reconcile your comments with my style. I know this is difficult, especially when you're very used to a certain type of file, but such comments would not only make more sense in the context of this thread, but would actually help me try to improve my files within the confines of my developed style.

Who says all of us are keyboard players? Kommisar would know what good patterns are--you need to in order to make good pad charts too. If someone like Kommisar tells you that your patterns are bad or need work, you really should take a listen, because people who are fluent in both pad/KB chart have mastered patterns very well.

Anyway, that's my lecture for the day.

[kommisar[os]]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

making simfile charts is like composing music that already exists; all you gotta do is write the sheet music. you can't invent notes that don't exist amirite.

[Patashu]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

kil agrees

[gnr61]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

making simfile charts is like composing music that already exists; all you gotta do is write the sheet music. you can't invent notes that don't exist amirite.

c'mon man this is literally saying the only good way to make a file is to use strictly straightforward layering and as perfect PR as possible. YOU CANT MAKE CDEF AS 1324 BECAUSE ITS NOT THE SAME AS THE MUSIC AMIRITE.
u play ITG, i guarantee you play dozens of charts regularly that are not in the least technically accurate and have notes going to "nonexistent sounds" but no one complains about those :<

that said i haven't played or seen any of this guys files im just spewing stepman ideology

also the guy who seems to be universally hailed as "da worlds best simfile maker of all time his majesty" kil steps to "nonexistent" sounds all the fucen time and apparently he makes masterpieces while this guy makes cow vomit for the same reason

ps
king of the sea

[Djr Rap dancer]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

Kil is so popular <3 rolf
He must be a robot lol

[QED Stepfiles]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

This isn't me attacking you, but being truthful--but what I seen was PR. Then again, I am judging on one file, but you hold true to your style strongly through this one file; it makes you seem like you step only one way, and that's not good.

Thank you very much for your well thought-out response. And I never thought you were attacking me – quite the opposite. I am quite appreciative of everything you have said. Allow me to try playing devil’s advocate though, since this way I can get the most out of this conversation and can help myself improve.

It may seem like very little variation, but I too also play piano, alongside with trumpet and a bit of guitar. I do understand relative changes in pitch, and there are many more than what your patterns are offering. You may be trying to keep a simple pattern, but a non-varying pattern is boring, especially when some people have a musically-trained ear. If the aesthetic of the file is to be (almost) like a type of sheet music, then it just strengthens the need for more pitch-relevancy. It is possible to get good variation while making your patterns flow, just take a look at any good ITG file; 16th streams with good variation in patterns. Why do I bring this up? Some people happen to play index, which make patterns flow nearly identical. And while you may believe that the source is invariant, you're completely wrong; you have a song that demands a ton of difficulty, technicality, and you are not providing it. There's a difference between a good set of patterns, and then just poor usage.

Yes, I understand that there is a lot more going on in the background than I give the song credit for. In a sense, it is definitely possible to write a song with a lot more pitch relevancy and deliver what seems to be a more technically polished product. But I tried to demand the following in this file:

(1) Even if you have not heard the song before, you should be able to play the file through fine on the first try. I.E. Given that you have reached a certain level of proficiency you should be able to sightread all of my files without trouble, and to the extent where you are not losing any of the musicality of the song.

(2) There are two major elements of the choruses of this song – the instrumental craziness in the background and the vocals. To achieve what I want in (1), I like for all my steps to be somewhat anchored in the vocals, since fundamentally the vocal part is the most concrete part of a song. Even if the background craziness obviously doesn’t match the vocals at various points (and indeed, often counters the pitch of the vocals), having steps that are loosely based on vocals grants the player the illusion that the pitch relevancy is correct (even if they’re not!), since what they hear is a smooth progression that somewhat fits the background craziness while being somewhat carried by the primary melody, which to me is a good way to represent the song in its entirety. In this sense, I’m making the song out to be more invariant than it actually is, but at the same time I do this so I can play a bit more with the vocals and achieve what I want in (1).

(3) Yes, I use staircase patterns a lot. Sure, perhaps you can blame this on the fact that I haven’t experimented a whole lot with other patterns, and this is a point to work on in the future. At the same time, staircases work in songs like this since they give an illusion of smoothness and help me achieve the melodic anchoring described in (2).

I think this is also a reason why a lot of people think my files are strange – much of my strategy depends on creating illusions to make my steps seem to fit even if they fail this criteria when put under a magnifying glass. But hey, if some people understand the method to my madness I can’t be completely insane (at least I hope not <_<)

While I do understand that your files are created for lower level players, the chart in discussion is a rather high level chart in comparison to other step-charts that you have made. Variation and technical sequences should not be secondary to you--especially with what you have noted here:

I think there was a bit of a miscommunication here. My target audience isn’t necessarily lower level players, although I think that my files are definitely easy enough to be readily accessible for them (I do write lower difficulties for all files too). My target audience is rather the group of people who are playing for the musical experience rather than for the game itself. Even the best of players I think can appreciate occasionally playing a not-too-difficult file just to enjoy the melody. This is also encouraged by the fact that anime songs usually have more well-defined melodies.

Obviously, rhythm does not have anything to do with variation/patterns, those are normally consistent. However, symmetry and musical accentuation are very important, and are tied deeply into pattern usage. Why is this? It goes back to the theory of pitch relevancy. Musical accentuation in best form is most noticeable through proper layering (i.e. representing a sound and assigning it to an arrow/specific pattern [Big SM steppers, please correct me if I'm wrong]). With that being said, you still have no excuse to explain your lack of variation.

I think I covered this in my three point thing up there, but ultimately what I’m trying to do with my pattern variation (or lack thereof) is to place my file somewhere in the middle of “completely following pitch relevancy” and “completely following the vocals.” Perhaps I did not achieve this effect to the fullest (and hey, I have two weeks to edit this file still), but like all my other files, I try to compromise between different parts of a song to represent the song as a whole the most effectively.

Well--back to the level of difficulty, you said that your files cater to those who are still learning the game. If the point is for your players to have a calm, not frantic experience, you've provided the exact opposite with a chart like this. Not hard to me personally, but for someone who is still learning the game, this is ridiculous. Yes, you've noted that it's your own style that you picked up, and yes you've said it's tough to judge on a convention sense--this is because your patterns are unorthodox in comparison to common charts.

Perhaps I shouldn’t have used the word “relax,” since I obviously don’t want you to play my files while you’re sitting back with your eyes closed. But what I do suggest is trying to play them without the intent of critiquing them. Yes, this sort of ruins the point of this conversation, and it may sound strange, but looking for problems is actually kind of self-fulfilling. It’s like playing a piano piece by Debussy (I’m not arrogant enough to compare stepcharting to writing classical music, but I’m just trying to make a point) – it all sounds horrible if you’re trying to pick apart the piece too closely, but if you just play the piece smoothly without worrying about that the undeniable beauty of it comes through.

I totally understand that you are trying to provide your own style, but it might be more beneficial to you to step a different style? Maybe combine both? I don't really know what to tell you here.

My style is definitely not perfect, and there’s definitely room for improvement. I want to improve (very much so), but I feel like there’s still so much room for growth in my own style that it would be hasty to suddenly say “well let’s just do something else then.” If you compare, for instance, a file I’ve written in the last couple months and a file I’ve written a year ago, there are definite stylistic differences. Suffice to say that I’m still in a relatively flexible, experimental stage of my stepping career, and I want to allow my own style to flourish first. That may result in more emphasis on pitch relevancy and technicality, but as of now I cannot fit those concepts in comfortably with my own aesthetic sense. All I can do right now is try out different things.

Who says all of us are keyboard players? Kommisar would know what good patterns are--you need to in order to make good pad charts too. If someone like Kommisar tells you that your patterns are bad or need work, you really should take a listen, because people who are fluent in both pad/KB chart have mastered patterns very well.

I very much respect Kommisar’s work, but as you’ve noted before it’s tough to judge my files in a conventional sense. So far Kommisar appears to have the most problems with the alleged “invisible 16ths” issue, but it’s really coming off as more of a misinterpretation of the file rather than something that I can use to make my files better. I was more looking for something along the lines of “well I can see what you were trying to do here in this pattern, but it would have been much more effective if you _____.” Just saying that a lot of my notes don’t go to audible sounds isn’t really helping, since it’s a fact I’m fully aware of and seems to me to be a product of a conscious stylistic choice rather than a mistake that needs fixing.

Anyway, that's my lecture for the day.

But yes, thank you for giving me your “lecture of the day” – it got me thinking a lot about my stepping style and where to go with it in the future. Believe me, this conversation is helping me a lot, and I appreciate the time you took to articulate your response. If you have any more words of advice to give, please don't hesitate to post them! I like having these types of conversations, and I'm pleasantly surprised that what had begun as an irritating out-of-the-blue "witch hunt" has turned into a mature discussion on methods of stepchart creation that is helping me develop my own style.

And yea Kommisar, I agree with gnr… I don’t see the chart as based on something inflexible that already exists – I see the chart as existing alongside the music rather than as an extension of that music. It’s like adding an additional instrument rather than just following the ones that already exist.

Oh my God, I really have to stop spending so much time on this forum though... homework to do and such =(.

[kommisar[os]]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

i was quoting arch0wl on that one puppet haha


but some of the best charts aren't perfectly accurate as people put it. there will never be one definite way to step something because there will always be different styles and ways to make files fun. technical or no, it makes no difference as long as the game is enjoyable.



senorita oni.

[QED Stepfiles]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

yupyup!

[ablefoxdog]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

Can't wait to play Xepher. Reminds me of the old DDR days.
Keep up the good work QED. Really hoping to see more original stepfiles from you.

[Dimentio]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

anime or not, I would much rather play something that makes me feel like i'm actually playing the song. throwing in random arrows and patterns are very midare/arch0wl-esque and are usually for people who prefer more of a challenge. I guess i appreciate more artistic work

[Lain_Iwakura]

Re: Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

shuffle it