The Death Penalty

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

Give me one reason why what you think matters to anyone innocent currently on death row, never to see their family or loved ones again.

Just a shot in the dark here, but maybe because it's a debate and everyone's opinion matters?

I think you'd change your tune if you were about to be killed. This is the one argument that makes me sick every time I read it.

Then don't post in it.

There's no excuse for it. You are saying you would willingly let an innocent person die. You are saying that you would rather give up and let the real criminal get away and let you die in their place. My anger at the very concept that you actually think these people should be HAPPY to DIE is much too detailed to explain on this forum without getting in trouble for using selected words.

That's all fine and dandy, but have you analyzed the fact that we don't know it's the wrong person and we're letting the criminal go? If we did, Einstein, we wouldn't have an innocent person walking the green mile.

My thoughts on the recent post(s):

I actually agree. I mean, if it came down to spending your life in prison or a pin prick to take it all away, a lot of people would take the needle. I went to jail last week and I'll say in complete honesty that I'd rather die than do that for my whole life.

[Lipidman]

Re: The Death Penalty

That's all fine and dandy, but have you analyzed the fact that we don't know it's the wrong person and we're letting the criminal go? If we did, Einstein, we wouldn't have an innocent person walking the green mile.

You have completely missed the point of his entire post. I suggest you read it again.

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

Your post pretty much contributed nothing to the thread. No, wait, it did contribute something. It put us on the front page, again.

Also, I've been meaning to ask, Devonin, why did you make the roll private?

[devonin]

Re: The Death Penalty

I have no idea what you're talking about rzr

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

I just noticed it. Sorry, I wasn't able to click it before, so I thought it had been made private.

[kmay]

Re: The Death Penalty

The death penalty is only used when the person is found guilty with specific proof that links the murderer, or what ever charge they had, exactly. The death penalty is a way to scare some people from doing and also a way to get rid of some of the repeat offenders killing someone, in my eyes, should be life in jail. Killing more then once or more then one person on a charge should lead to the death penalty.

This is an easy question with an easy answer: There is no 100% absolutely objectively correct way to prove someone's guilt short of a direct and explicit confession. Unless offered, there should never be even the consideration of the death penalty.

There are plenty of ways to prove someone it 100% guilty. Its called evidence. If theres matching finger prints on the body, fibers from either clothes or hair found on the victim, and witnesses. Those are just a few examples.

We all know jails are being filled to there limit and the only way to empty them, other then letting criminals free, is by sentencing them to the death penalty. The death penalty is an important part of our legal system.

[gnr61]

Re: The Death Penalty

i think the fact that people on death row (including many who have already been executed) are after the fact found out to be innocent, despite having been convicted by "100% proof" attests to the flaw in saying you can find someone 100% guilty objectively.

and here again we see a convenience argument. our prisons apparently can't fit criminals, thus fundamentally the death penalty is a just and legitimate form of punishment. it is justifiable to kill someone if your institution does not have room for them. again, perhaps you should be looking at the source of the problem rather than an absurd, easy way out.

[devonin]

Re: The Death Penalty

There are plenty of ways to prove someone it 100% guilty. Its called evidence. If theres matching finger prints on the body, fibers from either clothes or hair found on the victim, and witnesses. Those are just a few examples.

I met a girl at a bar, we had a few drinks, danced, went back to my place, had perfectly consensual sex, she left, and on the way home was mugged, raped and murdered by someone careful enough to be wearing gloves and a condom. Pretty sure your whole list of things would point me to the rape and murder, including lots of witnesses at the bar who saw us leave together.

Good thing you have 100% proof I was guilty eh?

[Sullyman2007]

Re: The Death Penalty

I know this is a bit off topic, but it's an interjection I feel I need to make.

We all know jails are being filled to there limit and the only way to empty them, other then letting criminals free, is by sentencing them to the death penalty. The death penalty is an important part of our legal system.

This should be a sign. Not to start killing people off just because we don't know how else to control a booming prison population, but investing in other methods. They say prison actually makes people worse. Why not invest in, say, drug intervention programs to start helping people. Seems to me the main reason we send people off to prison in the first place is to get them away from the general population.

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

I met a girl at a bar, we had a few drinks, danced, went back to my place, had perfectly consensual sex, she left, and on the way home was mugged, raped and murdered by someone careful enough to be wearing gloves and a condom. Pretty sure your whole list of things would point me to the rape and murder, including lots of witnesses at the bar who saw us leave together.

Good thing you have 100% proof I was guilty eh?

If it really came down to it and you saw it happen, would you use the death penalty? Here's evidence. Fool proof. And you know this (hypothetically). And don't counter it with "but there's no such thing as 100% evidence," because I'm speaking hypothetically.

[Cavernio]

Re: The Death Penalty

If you're speaking hypothetically, all the discussion would have to necessarily be centered around the ethics of being able to kill someone ethically, if they themselves have killed people.

[GG_Guru]

Re: The Death Penalty

Do I believe in the Death Penalty?

Absolutely NOT.

No matter how you put it, no one can ever be able to decide if one should live or die.

Even if that person is a serial killer, it would only stoop us down to their level.

Murderers. No one should take away another's life.

[devonin]

Re: The Death Penalty

Here's evidence. Fool proof. And you know this (hypothetically). And don't counter it with "but there's no such thing as 100% evidence," because I'm speaking hypothetically.

If you can only speak in a non-existant hypothetical to support your view, then your view has no worthwhile support and should be discarded.

If I am required to assume something to be the case that is not actually possible in order for you to be correct, then you aren't. Simple as that.

I'm the richest man in the world, provided you assume I have 500 quadrillion dollars.

[Coolgamer]

Re: The Death Penalty

Just a shot in the dark here, but maybe because it's a debate and everyone's opinion matters?

That's all fine and dandy, but have you analyzed the fact that we don't know it's the wrong person and we're letting the criminal go? If we did, Einstein, we wouldn't have an innocent person walking the green mile.

Reread the post, "Einstein". I was responding to someone's direct statement that they felt innocent people should be happy to die on death row rather then spend time in jail. Next time, analyze the context before you attack someone.

The problem is the fact that the death penalty mainly targets minority groups, and often the evidence is far from "fool-proof". Witnesses and line-up selections mean ****. Eyewitnesses can and HAVE been wrong. Just check the testimony from the JFK shooting. One woman visible right by the street during the headshot in the Zapruder film claimed their was a dog in the limo. After the event, media exposure and other sources can change and influence memories.

Line-ups are nonsense because people can and often do look similar. There have been many innocent people who had more then three people swear they saw them commit the crime, only it turns out the real criminal looked similar.

Now, if you truly have an airtight case, like Joseph Paul Franklin... an admitted killer, with more then enough evidence to convict, and who brags about his or her crimes... then go ahead.

But that's not how it's mainly used, and too many innocent people are dying because of it.

[rzr]

Re: The Death Penalty

If you're speaking hypothetically, all the discussion would have to necessarily be centered around the ethics of being able to kill someone ethically, if they themselves have killed people.

Which certain people can't seem to grasp. So, Devonin, why is it that you can't simply answer the question? If there's 100% evidence, a confession, eye witnesses, video footage, prints, etc, would you allow the death penalty to be a suitable punishment?