STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

[hi19hi19]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

SC2 and World of Starcraft and any other random crap that you might dream up of might all go the way of Starcraft: Ghost, but the original Brood War will always remain an amazing game.

If you're playing toss on a money map and you wanna take tanks and wraiths there's two way to do it. The better method is to just mass scouts and have a bunch of observers follow them around, the scouts will own the wraiths and and when they're done, they'll destroy the tanks too.

Another way to deal with the problem is to make a group of arbiters and mass archons. Fly the arbiters in and stasis the wraiths if you care about your arbiters. Stasis or not, once your arbiters are above the tanks recall your archons right there. Once the tanks are toast have your archons ready to finish of the wraiths when they're out of stasis, this second method is better if the enemy has valkyries. Also if the enemy has valks try to keep your observers at a safe distance so they don't pop and the wraith cloak becomes a problem.

By the way this second method is also an excellent way to attack an enemy base, just be sure to get the recall in before your arbiters die off, and always ALWAYS have a bunch of batteries ready to pump up your units shields when they're running low.

1. Mass scouts is usually NOT a serious tactic. I mean yeah it works in theory, but scouts cost sooo much and take forever to build
2. Stasis/Recall is always good against everything lol, not just tanks

The best way to break a Terran tank contain/slow push as P is zealot bombs, and lots of speedlots to draw fire. Then, ranged goons (more of these if they're pestering you with wraiths) or REAVERS.
And carriers always work too, lulz

[Relambrien]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

Don't forget templar. Psionic Storm rapes tanks like no tomorrow.

[Xception704]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

SC2 and World of Starcraft and any other random crap that you might dream up of might all go the way of Starcraft: Ghost, but the original Brood War will always remain an amazing game.



1. Mass scouts is usually NOT a serious tactic. I mean yeah it works in theory, but scouts cost sooo much and take forever to build
2. Stasis/Recall is always good against everything lol, not just tanks

The best way to break a Terran tank contain/slow push as P is zealot bombs, and lots of speedlots to draw fire. Then, ranged goons (more of these if they're pestering you with wraiths) or REAVERS.
And carriers always work too, lulz

Well he's talking in terms of money maps ... meaning cost won't really be an issue.

I've never gone scouts ... but I've seen them be very effective.

Also, usually having high templar there to storm the tanks is a good idea as well. Be sure to storm the rear tanks though.

[who_cares973]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

wut..

[zhul4nder]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

thanks for your advices . @ hi19hi19 , man-crush or just a bit more than that, at least you give good advice. the problem that I have is not able to build very fast, gateway, teching and so forth. are there any tips for that? Also, when the enemy attacks me, i usually can defend a wave or two, but then i get into disarray and dazed; in other words i'm lost after my first rush because...i suppose i just forget what i'm supposed to do.



btw. What's the proxy build? the standard build?

[Xception704]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

Proxy builds are usually considered "cheeses" or "all-ins."

A proxy build involves building your military buildings (i.e. barracks/factory/gateway/hatchery) away from your main base and closer to your opponents base.

The benefits of using a proxy build are to catch your opponent off-guard (he won't expect you to be able to reinforce your rush so quickly) and of course to shorten the resupply route.

To make it clearer ... in Starcraft, the defender almost always has an advantage over the attacker - that advantage being that the defender can reinforce his defenses much faster than the attacker can, seeing as how the attacker has to send his units from a different part of the map.

The downside of using a proxy build is that if you fail in doing significant damage and the rush fails, you'll lose whatever buildings you proxied or you'll lose building time (terran), which leaves your main base pretty vulnerable to counter-attack.

So there are risk-reward factors involved in proxying.

Imo, cheesing is damn fun ... I can play a standard game, but I love microing ... and early-game rushes are SO micro-intensive.

[Relambrien]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

thanks for your advices . @ hi19hi19 , man-crush or just a bit more than that, at least you give good advice. the problem that I have is not able to build very fast, gateway, teching and so forth. are there any tips for that? Also, when the enemy attacks me, i usually can defend a wave or two, but then i get into disarray and dazed; in other words i'm lost after my first rush because...i suppose i just forget what i'm supposed to do.



btw. What's the proxy build? the standard build?

Based on what you said, your problem is essentially "macro," the ability to create units, manage upgrades, build appropriate facilities, and expand throughout the game. It takes its name from "macromanagement," meaning management of things on a large scale.

Some general tips for improving macro:

1) Hotkey everything. In early game, hotkey your two or three first gateways to something like 4, 5, and 6 so that even while you're attacking, you can go 4d5d6d to create another wave of dragoons without even switching the view back to your base. In addition, you can use the F-hotkeys to quickly swap back to a specific point of the map, so you can hotkey the unit production area of your main, F2, then click-d-click-z everything, before double-pressing the hotkey for your army to switch back to them.

In general, here's what you want to keep in separate hotkeys:

1) Dragoons
2) Zealots
3) Templar
4) Observers
5) Shuttle
6) Gateways
7) Each nexus (for probe production, once an expo is mined out, swap the hotkey for another, mining base)

Of course, this means you have to make some decisions on what you want to keep hotkeyed. If you're confident in your ability to pick out a single unit from a crowd, then you can hotkey a couple templar in with your zealots and goons then click them for storm. If you're not using a shuttle for drops, but keeping it with your army, you may not have to hotkey it, etc.

2) Associate your base with macro. What I mean by this is, every time you swap back to your base, the first thought in your mind should be "macro." Just like how when people think "McDonald's" they think "unhealthy," and when they think "Synthlight" or "Reach" they think "sexy." A lot of this comes from practice and just constantly thinking "macro, macro, macro" throughout the entire game, but consciously thinking or stating aloud "I need to macro whenever I come back to my base" repeatedly can help drill it into your unconscious as well.

3) Keep up pylon production. Two zealots + probes takes up the entire time a pylon is warping in, so that by the time it finishes, you need another one. This and worker production should be the two things you're doing the entire game (until it goes to late game and you're at 200/200 with more probes than Bill Clinton has mistresses and you have so many pylons that you can build wherever you damn well please).

4) Macro > Micro. At our levels, macro wins games. Unless there's a rush going on, in which micro is the deciding factor, we don't have anywhere near good enough micro to overcome a significant macro disadvantage. When a battle starts up, get your units in something resembling a concave (basically an arc facing towards the enemy army) and get back to your base to macro. It should only take you a few seconds to build your next units, so then you can swap back real quick and use whatever micro you have to sustain your army as long as possible, and retreat if necessary.

I think that should do it. Anyway, that's just stuff I've learned from my experiences, so other input would definitely help create a more well-rounded "strategy."

[Sinoya]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

i'm on the hamachi but i'm not sure if i set it up properly. do we play games via UDP on the multiplayer screen?

[Relambrien]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

It's via UDP. Go to Multiplayer, then UDP, and if anyone has a game up, you'll see it. It'll be on LAN latency by default since the computer thinks you're on a LAN with the person playing.

[devonin]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

What dev meant is that in terms of style, they're similar, but yellow is infinitely better at it. Hence, the 5 minutes vs. 12 minutes thing. At least, that's what I'm assuming. Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth, dev.

Relambrien wins again. We do the same process in roughly the same order, he is just dramatically more efficient and skilled while doing so. (I'd say taking over double the time to do the same things is pretty accurate to the gap between a mostly casual player and a pro player.)

[l2awr]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

Relambrien wins again. We do the same process in roughly the same order, he is just dramatically more efficient and skilled while doing so. (I'd say taking over double the time to do the same things is pretty accurate to the gap between a mostly casual player and a pro player.)

Same build order? Build orders change every game based on situations. Thats the difference between you and yellow. You probably do the same BO every game. BO's are the same(based on opponents race) until their opponent is scouted.

[Wineandbread]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

Has anyone even played anyone else yet? We could try and get a ranking system of our own of something. =P

Why are we talking about build order? xD
Btw, l2awr is right. If you're playing someone at least half decent, you need to adapt to their situation. That's why scouting in the early game and keeping your worker alive is so important in the big leagues. If you don't know what they're going to do, you're most likely screwed. That's why I'm not very good at this game: my build order changes very rarely regardless of what I see.

[Xception704]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

Has anyone even played anyone else yet? We could try and get a ranking system of our own of something. =P

Why are we talking about build order? xD
Btw, l2awr is right. If you're playing someone at least half decent, you need to adapt to their situation. That's why scouting in the early game and keeping your worker alive is so important in the big leagues. If you don't know what they're going to do, you're most likely screwed. That's why I'm not very good at this game: my build order changes very rarely regardless of what I see.

I think you can create your own ladder on iCCup ... that's what TeamLiquid did for the TSL anyway.

[hi19hi19]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

Um, I thought that required having inside connections with the ICCUP folks. Besides, an FFR ladder with like half a dozen people. Whee.

P.S. Relmabrien should commentate or teach at a Korean starcraft camp or something. That was an A+ dissertation on basic macro/micro balance. Nice.

P.P.S. MSL finals whoo. Jaedong winrar

[Xception704]

Re: STARCRAFT does anyone still play it?

I didn't check, but that makes sense.

Scratch that then. =\