Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

i don't agree with the AI thing the only way the AI has beaten me without items on final destinaton (i use it as a little warm up) is when i put random characters and i get a character that i never use.

wavedash is not on brawl, melee is dead so we can move on with that one.

and brawl might get repetitive if you play with the same character and the same person over and over and over again (about thousands of times) no.. that's still wrong because as humans we learn from our mistakes so by winning/losing thousands of times we can learn new strategies and new things, so brawl is indeed very deep and way deeper than melee. (specially in 4VS4 battles but i guess that not all of you enjoy that kind of battle).

and even with the decrease in the skill gab on brawl, the game is pretty much for the hardcore audicence in fact correct me if i'm wrong but even some casual gamers bought melee even though it had a bigger skill gab

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

So you're all saying you have lost to the AI.

My statement wasn't "you always lose to the AI" or even "you occasionally lose to the AI". It's "you have lost to the AI".

Nobody has picked up the game starting from the N64 version and been undefeated.

Nobody can flawlessly run through All-Star Mode without ever dying once in 1000 matches. On any difficulty setting.

Nobody can flawlessly run through Boss Battles or 100-Man or 15-Minute or anything either.

[korny]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Well why don't we point out the obvious then.

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

I mean, you all were saying the AI was SOOO EASY. If they were SOOOOOO EASY and SOOOOOO PREDICTABLE and SOOOOOOOOO BASIC you would have never lost.

My point was that the AI in Mario Kart is retarded and I never lost a match against them. Not even from the day I picked up the game. That makes Brawl much more complex, since I have lost to AI and still lose the occasional match. Probably because I play with items and they always drop right next to them.

[Afrobean]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

I never have less than 2 lives against an AI.

I bet 3 vs 1 team 9 CPU with full handicap could beat you.

Also: items on, high. And Spear Pillar.

After playing thousands of Brawl matches you learn that Brawl is NOT deep. It is VERY repetitive and very slow. Go play thousands of matches with good people and you'll notice the same things happen every match.

That was quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. No two matches play the same, not even the same two players on the same stage with the same settings. Player's choose different tactics, and hey, players learn and get better, develop new techniques, and abandon ones that don't work as well.

Seriously, if you were to play me right now, I'd be more effective than if you had played me a month ago, and heck, I've achieved increased skill in player versus player matches without even abusing illogical holes in the physics engine.

i don't agree with the AI thing the only way the AI has beaten me without items on final destinaton (i use it as a little warm up) is when i put random characters and i get a character that i never use.

That's something else I forgot about. I did the same thing, and was still stomping the level 9 CPU in one on one, even when I got characters that I'm utter garbage with, with the CPU finally beating me when I got Jigglypuff on Spear Pillar (and even then it was a close fight that I was only losing by a small percentage when I got trapped in one of those bull**** beams and got raped).

specially in 4VS4 battles but i guess that not all of you enjoy that kind of battle

I hate free for alls. I always end up getting ragdolled around by everyone, and when I might be trying to engage someone in particular or am doing well in one way, I'll end up starting to get stomped from at least one of the others.

Like, it can be fun to do it sometimes, but just because someone can win in a free for all doesn't mean they're a better player. Many times I have seen players in the online anyone matches that simply suck, but end up winning anyway.

EDIT: @Squeek above: in all of Melee, I remained completely undefeated and played level 9 CPU a lot, but never actually got to play a real person. In N64, if I ever lost to a CPU, it was because of me setting the handicap too high, because I seriously did 3 versus 1 level 9 CPU and won every time.

And something else: I think the point is that if we go into a REASONABLE match and think "ok I won't lose this match", there is no way a level 9 CPU alone could defeat most of us. Some of us could probably even do 3 versus 1 level 9 CPU and win every time, but I frankly haven't been able to beat the CPU that badly since N64.

[korny]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Well ever since i've gotten the hang of this game the AI's have always been sooooo easy.

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Well ever since i've gotten the hang of this game the AI's have always been sooooo easy.

indeed because the AI never learns.

and i like 4VS4 but those are just for fun.. a competetive 4VS4 is not really a good idea to do

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

There's a good example.

Was playing All-Star with Lucas. Got to Marth/Ike. I didn't heal before the match at 50%. They knocked me off the edge downward, then jumped above me. So I had to angle my PK Thunder recovery almost exactly vertical. And it didn't work. I was off by a few degrees. I hit the underside of that left side ledge and bounced downward.

[Shoe The Almighty]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

"a competetive 4VS4 is not really a good idea to do"

I don't know about that.

[souljaboy4]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Well ever since i've gotten the hang of this game the AI's have always been sooooo easy.

Dude you are not the best super smash brawl player on this site plus i can beat you any time the character i can beat anyone with is sonic i can do the 100 multi man brawl with out getting hit

[Relambrien]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

very long post

Pretty much what I was getting at. Wavedashing is gone and behind everyone now--it's irrelevant whether or not it was intended, whether it was a glitch or exploit, etc. However, thanks to wavedashing (or more specifically, its removal and the reasons behind it), we now know how gaming companies are evolving. The casual (sometimes called "social") gamer demographic is growing and growing, while the hardcore (sometimes referred to as "competitive" though one doesn't necessarily imply the other) gamer demographic is remaining fairly stagnant.

The number of people who will buy a $50 game to pick up and play a simple, fun social activity is far, far greater than the number of people who will buy a deep, complex game with tons of nuances that can greatly affect gameplay. As game companies shift to developing for these people, there's a very likely possibility that the hardcore gamer will get the shaft. There's more money to be made in the social gaming market, after all. This is what worries me. I can't enjoy casual/social games. I just can't. I need depth, intricacy, complexity, to truly get the rush out of gaming that is the reason I play. If companies develop for a larger market at the cost of these things, video gaming may eventually no longer be entertaining for me. I'm sure others share this sentiment as well.

If nothing else, the future of the gaming industry as gaming becomes more widespread is worth discussing, though that would be better done in a different thread. If there's enough interest, I'll go ahead and make one.

And hey, who says Brawl can't be complex without a physics engine abuse? Has anyone ever had the same battle play out twice? Hell, I guarantee you could take every match ever carried out from everyone around the world and you'd never have a mirror image.

Mario Kart is basic as hell because even without cheating (read: snaking), I can beat the AI every time I play the game. Brawl is complex because I can get better and better and better and still lose fights against the AI. No matter how good I get, there will always be something I don't expect about to happen that could turn the tide of the match.

And yes I admit I lose fights against the AI. Anyone who doesn't admit that is a liar.

And hey, all along I said that you play Brawl the way you want to play. Just don't try to cram your playstyle down other people's throats. Surely you can reach a compromise (which I've been trying to do) that works for both parties.

I'm not saying Brawl isn't complex--I'm saying the mindset of Nintendo (and other developers) seems to be shifting toward creating games that are easy and fun to just pick-up-and-play with very little learning curve, as Sakurai's statements seemed to imply. The fact that it was within a Brawl context is just happenstance.

Also, yes, everyone has lost to the AI at one point.

And I agree that people should just play how they want to. Those on the competitive side who try to "cram [their] playstyle down other people's throats" are the vocal minority. And I'm sure the same is true for the other side as well.

[Loyal2Death]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Dude you are not the best super smash brawl player on this site plus i can beat you any time the character i can beat anyone with is sonic i can do the 100 multi man brawl with out getting hit

1. Not here. Don't do this here. We just had a big war about egos a couple pages back.

2. I'd REALLY like to see you do 100 multi man brawl without getting hurt (without hugging ledges either)

[korny]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Souljaboy check your pms.

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

The quote unquote 'simplifying' of games these days isn't to level out the playing field. It's to embrace a new audience.

Game developers realized that marketing games solely to the 18-24 male demographic is a great way to lose money. When you can market the same game with minor tweaks to the 14-32 male/female demographic, you can sell double or triple sales of your game.

[Afrobean]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

In addition to what Squeek said, they HAVEN'T SIMPLIFIED BRAWL. It has more actual depth than Melee, and the only thing Melee has that Brawl doesn't is a particular physics bug. Brawl has everything Melee has, plus more stages, more characters, and more items, with the only missing element being a glitch.