Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[dogdude84]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

K this argument...seriously?

korny doesn't like items.

other people do.

period.

stop.

[korny]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

You don't hide your arrogance at all, do you.

Boohoo

[Shamo0]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Items are for noobs. Simple.

[Silvuh]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Telvanni_guard's example defeats the argument of "A professional player will never lose to a new or much less experienced player." (In other words, "1 on 1, a noob will never beat a pro".) It is out of context only when the argument is made more specific.

But that's kind of taking what i'm saying out of context, because i always play with at least 3 lives. If a noob plays by tourney regulated rules, he is never going to beat a pro.

These are the specifications. But, you added them after Telvanni refuted the argument he replied to. You took yourself out of context.

Okay. Now here's a question related to the specifications in the quoted post.
What if a professional player was playing with one of his or her friends who was new to the game and said pro let the other win? They could still be playing under tourney regulated rules, and the less experienced player would have beat the professional ("beat" as in "won against", not as in "been better than"). Any case of that hypothetical situation happening refutes the argument you have given.
I'm asking you to be more specific, in case you can't tell.

A few other things about a different part of the debate: I like the idea of a truly skilled player having to be skilled in many aspects of the game. A truly skilled Brawl player should be able to use terrain and any items turned on to their advantage. Someone skilled on Final Destination might not be as skilled on Hanenbow.
When items and diverse maps are introduced, what reason is there for randomness being biased towards the less experienced? You say a new player could beat a professional when items are turned on, but shouldn't a professional be able to take advantage of the randomness, too?

[/debate mode]
[fun mode]

I can't say much about the game itself, unfortunately... I don't get to play it often, because I don't own a Wii. My main in Brawl would have to be Falco, but I play as other characters a lot, too. Ice Climbers, Lucario, Squirtle, Yoshi, Wolf, Diddy Kong... I'm not good, because I don't have much practice. I was able to get the Level 2, 3, and 5 Target Smash time-test trophies with Falco on a friend's game, and that made me happy. Nyeh... Can't think of much else to say at the moment.

Ninja edit:

Items are for noobs. Simple.

Try to justify your argument next time you post, please.

[Relambrien]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Okay seriously, korny you are really making the "tourney***" crowd look bad. You're fitting perfectly into the stereotype of "NO ITEMS FOX ONLY FINAL DESTINATION I'M SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU AND I FLAUNT IT EVERY CHANCE I GET" that's so commonly believed.

Similarly, Shamo0's argument gives off the same vibe. I may agree that items are probably bad for tournament play (we'll have to see just to what extent things can be tinkered with in regards to randomness factors, and whether any remaining randomness hurts more than the tinkering helps), but if you're going to make a claim like that, at least back it up.

I think part of the reason there's so much bad blood between the two main Smash philosophies is because of things like this. Honestly, a non-heated discussion could solve so many more problems than the flame war this could soon become.

Or everyone could realize, based on the history of this thread, that the same people are saying the same thing, and that no one has really changed their opinion in 146 pages, that attempting to convince others of your own correctness is impossible. Though if you feel you can do this, go right ahead. I'm not going to stop you--but seriously, at least stay calm and show the respect others deserve.

Squeek and others have argued more than enough in this thread to warrant something more than a "Boohoo" and "Items are for noobs."

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Stupid statements like the ones from Shamoo / korny that are why this argument will never die.

I don't see anyone on my side saying that your beliefs are stupid.

Edit: ninja'd. I should never leave FFR open while I take a trouble call at work D=

I'm not even saying that you guys should use items at tournaments. It's your tournament and you can do with it what you want. All I'm saying is what I said dozens of pages ago: don't measure skill in this game based on the fact that you are good with a handful of characters on one stage with no items. That's how you measure who is best with those handfuls of characters on one stage with no items in a tournament setting. That's not how you measure the skill of an entire game, especially not one as huge as Brawl.

Personally, I don't think you can claim to be the best at anything until you've beaten all of your competition. Like, if you get a Gold medal at the Olympics, well, you're the best at that specific event for that year. That's because every country had an equal opportunity to send their best competitor to the games and you beat them all. You're the best. (Along with this statement, a corollary! Ever notice how the Olympics have more than one running event? There are different meters, different numbers of runners, obstacles, biathlon, triathlon, etc. It's not just "who is the best runner", here. It's "who is the best runner at these various aspects". So even in the Olympics, you can't claim that one person is the best at the entire event of "running" unless they've won every single competition. Isn't that awesome?)

[Shamo0]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Oh please I've went into detail many, many, pages back to support my ideas. Srsly go back and look at my post if you do think I just post one liners all the time. I have like 211 post with this account and probably 150+ of those post are here in this thread. The comments aren't stupid. Say what you want, both sides have brought serious discussion to the table. Now bring it where it matters.


Enough with the talk, bring it to the battlefield. THAT will be what settles it.

[korny]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Yeah i already settled it against zidart so no need for that. Good games btw

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Yeah i already settled it against zidart so no need for that. Good games btw

to everyone who doubts what korny says.. he might be inside the stereotype however he does have the skills to back his words. (in other words i got completely owned until he put someone else to play for him xD)

i just hope someone that's better than me helps proves this points (i guess the point number 2 was proved though even with some random explosions you still were able to beat me)

[Afrombean]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

The problem with "settling it on the Battlefield" is that odds are good that the item user will win the item fight and the itemless user will win the itemless fight.

But is it because items make it easier? No, if it was, then the "pro" player would always win majority of games with items on. If items make it easier for the newb, it also makes it easier for the "pro".

It won't really prove anything. And if the "pro" person wins both matches, all it means is that the "pro" player is simply better at using items than the one who advocates their use.

Again, items are not a crutch to be used by newbs to beat good people. If it was that easy for newbs, the "pro" players could just use them in exactly the same way and still win the majority of matches.

[virus003]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

ill play ya ! but do u have wi-fi at your house? i do. just post me a challenge i dont no how good u r

[korny]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

I'll play you i guess. Kinda disappointed with the online show up tonight. My friend code is 4983 4695 3977. What's yours?

[l2awr]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

to everyone who doubts what korny says.. he might be inside the stereotype however he does have the skills to back his words. (in other words i got completely owned until he put someone else to play for him xD)

i just hope someone that's better than me helps proves this points (i guess the point number 2 was proved though even with some random explosions you still were able to beat me)

Your lucky you weren't playing me with no lag. Korny just proved that items obviously do not take too much skill. He DOESN'T even play with items and he won. Whats that say?

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

Your lucky you weren't playing me with no lag. Korny just proved that items obviously do not take too much skill. He DOESN'T even play with items and he won. Whats that say?

well that items obviously don't make an average player beat a pro... you people always saying "noobs win with items" that's obviously wrong.

skill is a factor in every aspect of brawl.. korny is 10 times more skilled than me so even with items on (wich are not exclusive for one player) he was able to beat me because he has skill

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl

It's not like items are impossible to use when you tend to play without them. Anyone can use items.

My argument isn't that I'd beat you with items on. I'd still lose because you obsess over this game like it's the only thing the Wii has going for it while I tend to spend time playing other games. My argument is simply that items should be used when determining skill.