The Desire for an Apocalypse?

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  • Reach
    FFR Simfile Author
    FFR Simfile Author
    • Jun 2003
    • 7471

    #31
    Re: The Desire for an Apocolypse?

    Originally posted by devonin
    There's your problem. Who does the deciding as to what constitutes unfit? Where's the benchmark for a "good enough" parent?
    I already went into this at the end of my post. Right off the bat, having a highly heritable genetic disorder means you're unfit. You can also administer the same set of tests that are required for people that want to adopt with similar cut offs. This usually involves psychological testing and intelligence testing depending on the country, along with a standard knowledge battery for taking care of a child.

    Many parents destroy the lives of their children before they're even born with their stupidity: you see it all the time if you are involved in healthcare. This wasn't a problem at all some thousand of years ago, because these children did not go on to reproduce. I am amazingly grateful for Canada's Heathcare system, but at the same time recognize it often keeps alive people that would not have normally reproduced. This unnatural balance and disproportionate growth rate will be a factor in our demise, as it eats up resources faster and decreases the utility and genetic fruitfulness of the population.

    As a society, we go ahead and remove children from parents that are unfit, assuming the law gets involved. It is quite obvious then, that everyone agrees that some people should not be parents. You can save a whole lot of hassle by inoculating against this early on instead of patching it when problems arise.

    I do think it's important, if we plan to maximize the utility of our species and not go extinct within the next few centuries. I wouldn't put it on my priority list of things to do in the world right now though, if I had any say in the matter, and I don't think it'll ever happen anyway. Regardless of what I have to say, our government would never support it, and neither would the majority of the worlds governments. But whatever, these are the same people that aren't doing anything about climate change either. The problem will hit us in the face eventually, by the time it's too late to do anything about it.
    Last edited by Reach; 02-28-2008, 07:33 PM.

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    • Kilroy_x
      Little Chief Hare
      • Mar 2005
      • 783

      #32
      Re: The Desire for an Apocolypse?

      Originally posted by Reach
      This unnatural balance and disproportionate growth rate will be a factor in our demise, as it eats up resources faster and decreases the utility and genetic fruitfulness of the population.
      No developed country has problems of scarcity (except maybe of I-pods*). Also, what on earth do you mean by genetic fruitfulness? If a trait is survivable in a given environment, the host survives. What about that runs contrary to survival of the fittest?



      *Meaning: Not of necessities

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      • Reach
        FFR Simfile Author
        FFR Simfile Author
        • Jun 2003
        • 7471

        #33
        Re: The Desire for an Apocolypse?

        Originally posted by Kilroy_x
        No developed country has problems of scarcity (except maybe of I-pods*). Also, what on earth do you mean by genetic fruitfulness? If a trait is survivable in a given environment, the host survives. What about that runs contrary to survival of the fittest?



        *Meaning: Not of necessities
        No problems of scarcity *yet*.

        I suppose by Genetic fruitfulness I mean the portion of the population that is born capable of being productive, leading to utility - or being of practical use in the work force. Disproportionately large numbers of incapable or not useful individuals is not a good thing. I'm not saying we are currently facing any of these problems, but that it's a possibility, as I'm playing the pessimist here.

        The problem I see with what you're saying about survival of the fittest is that...we won't survive >_> If the majority of the population is not productive and eating excessive resources, they are not adapted to the environment created for them. This is almost like taking a species and sticking it on another continent, where they typically cause a lot of problems. We depend on high technology and our ability to work hard and make progress.
        Last edited by Reach; 02-29-2008, 01:00 PM.

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        • Kilroy_x
          Little Chief Hare
          • Mar 2005
          • 783

          #34
          Re: The Desire for an Apocolypse?

          Originally posted by Reach
          No problems of scarcity *yet*.
          Where are you expecting your problems of scarcity to come from?

          I suppose by Genetic fruitfulness I mean the portion of the population that is born capable of being productive, leading to utility - or being of practical use in the work force. Disproportionately large numbers of incapable or not useful individuals is not a good thing. I'm not saying we are currently facing any of these problems, but that it's a possibility, as I'm playing the pessimist here.
          What would you consider productive labor? White collar workers probably don't need to be as physically resilient as blue collar workers. Blue collar workers probably don't need to be as intellectually equipped as white collar workers. Individuals with both severe physical and mental handicaps don't tend to reproduce even in todays society.

          The problem I see with what you're saying about survival of the fittest is that...we won't survive >_> If the majority of the population is not productive and eating excessive resources, they are not adapted to the environment created for them. This is almost like taking a species and sticking it on another continent, where they typically cause a lot of problems. We depend on high technology and our ability to work hard and make progress.
          I don't see how that could happen. So say some proportion of the population is completely dependent on the productivity of others. The severely disabled, or a species of animal which no longer exists in the wild, or the government, perhaps. Once an organism has taxed its environment too much, whether by critically reducing the food supply or whatever, some form of population control is inevitable. This might just be a population crash. Maybe people will just stop paying for healthcare for the severely disabled, simply because they no longer can. Or it might be more sophisticated. Perhaps, when it becomes apparent such a crash is impending, individuals or governments will take it upon themselves to pay the severely disabled to sterilize themselves. Eugenics, to be certain, but seemingly more humane than the alternatives.

          All this, of course, contingent upon the population in question actually becoming that burdensome. It seems unlikely to me. Productivity is too likely to stay ahead of the curve. Of course, other taxing factors might lead to system failure, but then we're really talking about the totality of a given political economy and not just one factor, like the size of the population of disabled people.

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          • ischooltennyson
            FFR Player
            • Jul 2007
            • 144

            #35
            Re: The Desire for an Apocalypse?

            Wow.

            If humans did stop reproducing for ten years, imagine all of the negative impacts. Almost all elementary schools, daycares, Preschools, etc. would just crash. Plus, there would be many people who find this insane and rebel against it, causing lots of problems. This list could go on forever

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            • Kilroy_x
              Little Chief Hare
              • Mar 2005
              • 783

              #36
              Re: The Desire for an Apocalypse?

              It could. What you've given me, however, is a very short list with complaints which don't actually seem valid or significant.

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