Premaritial Sex

[Cavernio]

Re: Premaritial Sex

Ok, I just found these points raised by Chardish earlier, and I'd like to address each of them.

Assumptions: Your long-term goal is a committed, monogamous, loving relationship. You see sex as very important in such a relationship, but you don't see it as the most important thing - living a happy life with your significant other is the most important thing. Sex is an expression of your love, not the centerpiece of it.

Ok, so maybe this makes everything else moot since they're assumptions you're using, but I can pretend that they apply fairly well, since that's my culture. Personally, I'm not sure where I fall into things in terms of actually wanting a long-term relationship, mainly, because I get bored easily, and staying with 1 person is fairly boring, even if we've got good communication. The only person who hasn't become boring for me is my sister, someone I grew up with. Besides sex and other physical contact, I don't think I could ask for something better in terms of long-term relationships. We've got a lot in common and understand each other without having to spell it out. We argue and fight, and then it's OK. We accept each other's flaws more readily than I have yet to do with a bf, probably because, again, we're so similar.

1) Chemical effects. An extremely powerful hormone called oxytocin (look it up) is released during orgasm that basically makes you trust the other person and want to stay with the other person. The problem with this is that if you've had sex before you really get to know the person - really really get to know the other person - this chemical is going to kick in and override your judgment of the other. So basically if you've spent years getting to know the other person and love the time you spend together, the sex is an affirmation of those feelings you already have. If you've had sex too early in your relationship, the hormone might dupe you into thinking you should be with someone who's actually wrong for you. Basically, the hormone tells forces your brain to think "I love this person and I need to spend the rest of my life with them." If you already think that, then it's very desirable. If you don't think that, it's very undesirable and may lead you to making a dangerous mistake. Another note: Though it's present in both sexes, it's much much more present in women than it is in men. This is the primary reason women are willing to stick around with men who treat them like dirt - their brains have been rewired to think that the man is worth sticking with. If you ask me, volunteering to rewire your brain to love someone requires a much deeper commitment.

You've made the assumption that oxytocin will immediately cause you to bond to the other person. My personal experience (you don't have any if you've never orgasmed around someone else, Also, it is not the same as abstinance, which is merely stopping intercourse.) tells me that there's no way on god's green earth that I'll ever fall in love with someone from the chemical release after orgasm. Now, your point isn't lost though, because I've experienced pretty negative feelings when I orgasm around someone whom I don't love. It's hard to describe, and is very, very personal, but I've felt like I've thrown myself away at someone whom I don't love, by letting them see something of me that I don't actually want to share with them. That 'something' is the feeling I get, which has been linked with attachment, and then I think, well, in reality, they don't experience what's in my head. They don't feel my emotions, so I've in fact shared nothing. This itself has caused me other psychological issues, the fact that what I want to share with someone I love, I never can actually share it, everything from the feeling a song I like gives me, to a joke, to sex. But that's something else.
In any case, I strongly disagree that sex will ever cause me to fall in love with someone who I don't intellectually already love.

2a) Meaningfulness. What do you tell the other person with your act? If you say "yes" to everyone, your "yes" doesn't mean that much. If you've determined beforehand that you're only going to say "yes" to one person, ever, then saying "yes" to that one person means an enormous deal. The fact that you've remained abstinent - the fact that you've let them know that only one person gets to have sex with you - lets the other person know that you value yourself (otherwise, you wouldn't value your virginity so highly) and, when you're ready to say "yes", lets them know that you value them more than anyone else in the world, for now and for ever.

I've always thought of this argument as giving into jealousy. Firstly, no one has sex with everyone. Secondly, just because you love 1 person, doesn't mean that you haven't loved someone else in the past, or will love someone else in the future. You're expecting to have your cake and eat it too when you only want a person to love just you.
Another point though, is that you could easily replace sex with virtually anything else symbolic to you, and let that person know what that means. That could be marriage, that could be the words "I love you", or anything else you choose to do only with or for that special person. Why do you feel the need to stop yourself from experiencing sexual pleasure?

2b) Emotional considerations. Basically, it's easy to have sex with someone, especially since pretty much every fiber in your being is telling you to do it when you're in a serious romantic relationship. It's an impulse - and engaging in it is as easy as giving into "what's natural." On the other hand, it's very difficult to tell someone that you want to spend the rest of your life together. It's even more difficult to get all of your friends and family together and swear in front of all of them that you will spend the rest of your lives together. Personally, I can't think of any more convincing statement that you really, honestly love someone.

Ok, so holding out on having sex with other people means that much more when you do have sex because you have to try hard not to. Basically, you're giving up on something that you want realllly badly, and which would be reallllly satisfying immediately, all banking it for 1 person, which may or may not exist for you ever. And as you say, there's other symbols, like marriage, which you can give someone else, which can be independent of sex.

3) Relationship considerations. Given the above, it's important to understand where sex lies in the relationship. If sex is at the center of the relationship, the relationship is likely to fall apart if the sex gets boring. If learning about each other and spending time with each other is at the center of the relationship, the relationship will endure. If you've committed your life to someone who you've never had sex with, you can virtually guarantee that sex is not the most important thing in your relationship. It may come as a surprise, but couples who abstain before marriage report more satisfying sex lives than those who didn't. With communication being such an important element of sex, the activity naturally favors those who have established a strong ability to openly communicate their needs and wants. Again, you don't declare you're willing to spend the rest of your life with someone you don't think you can communicate with. Forever.

Just because you eventually want to have a monogamous, long-term relationship, doesn't mean that that's the only relationship you want. Because of that, there's not problem if sex is the center of a relationship and it breaks up. Also, a relationship that starts with sex can end up being centered around other things too, so it's not like you're ultimately choosing either sex or marriage from the get-go either. Furthermore, people can get more than sexually bored. Boredom exists for all activities and thoughts, and therefore, the possibility of boredom even in a very well communicated relationship is possible, especially if it were once centered around common interests, and someone develops different ones which aren't compatible with the other person's anymore.

4) Enjoyment considerations. There's the aforementioned happier sex lives of those who abstained. Furthermore, most people don't enter into marriage without some level of financial security. Regardless of the method of family planning used (natural family planning users report even more satisfying sex lives, by the way), the lack of fear of pregnancy or STDs is an intense benefit.

I don't suffer from fear of pregnancy. I also don't believe your statistics about happier sex lives.

5) Statistical considerations. Couples where both people abstain before marriage have an astonishingly low divorce rate. It's even lower (I don't have the numbers on me, but I believe it's under 5%) if both people abstained before marriage and both wait until they're out of college to marry. Couples who abstained also report happier sex lives than those who didn't. Furthermore, from personal experience, I don't know a single couple who waited and regretted it - but I know well over a dozen who didn't wait and regretted it.

Well, there're lots of confounds to be considered here. The biggest one I can think of is that strongly religious people are most likely the ones to abstain. That also means they're unlikely to divorce, even in bad situations. It could also mean that because they're unwilling to divorce, they're also willing to put more effort into their relationships to make them last. Even then though, that's not abstinence itself which is causing the marriage to last. In fact, abstinence itself causing marriages to last longer seems ludicrous. If someone were going to be that upset that their bf/gf weren't a virigin, then they wouldn't get married to them, would they? And, I question the usefulness of putting marriage first in some abusive situations, particularly if they involve drug addiction or something.
About knowing couples who weren't upset they waited...You're only asking couples. What about those people who aren't married yet? There's no guarantee you'll find the right person. Also, you're neglecting abstaining couples who have broken up since either. Obviously, if you ask happily married couples about regret, they're likely to not have many because they're happily married!

[Paperleaf]

Re: Premaritial Sex

I don't think waiting until you're married necessarily means a whole lot (though I think it's good for practicing self dicipline and control), but if people do consider such a personal and risky act, they should do it on their own terms (I mean, not feel pressured by the other person) and be fully aware of the consiquences, and they should know the person that they plan on doing it with well and trust them.

That's why I would never even consider it... I have no desire, the cons out weigh the pros, and I don't trust anyone. :B