FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

[macgravel]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

Chrono Trigger was a great game. Chrono Cross was also good, though it should have been named something else, and not a "sequel" to Chrono Trigger.

Final Fantasy 7 was good. Before it hit mainstream and then all the stupid gay fan boys decided to chop their dicks off to how "gr9" it was. I liked FF7, but now, I can't look at it and feel the same way I used to for it. FF4 is still (IMO) the best FF, with 8 (People hated it, I loved it) and 12 following close behind.

Remember, my opinion

[UtopiaXD]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

I feel like I should probably say something in here since i've followed Final Fantasy since day one. I also find the fact that this thread spelt the name of the game wrong its not Crono Trigger, its "Chrono Trigger" funny but most of you seem you know the correct way to spell it.

Anyway i've beat chrono trigger somewhere in the neighborhood of about 25 times since I first got the game and let me tell when I first got it, I was like "wow this game is really amazing. Completely blown away by how they really out did themselves with the game. I might also state that SNES is my favorite console and the FF3 aka FF6 was also among another amazing game to ever be made at the time. I've played almost every classic RPG when it first came out spanning from snes to current RPGs.

Now that I finshed talking about Chrono Trigger, I'll move on to FFVII. I also got this game the day it was release and I had no idea what expect, I was not hyped at all due to the fact I wasn't old enough to really care. I bought the game because I played all the previous FF's and I enjoyed them. When I brought this game home and began to play it (this was not the first 3-d rpg I played either) I found the game to have far superior graphics to anything I had even seen to date. Within the turn based battles held even more advanced graphics then the normal graphics during exploration.

The graphics impressed me but this was not enough to sway me into be like ZOMG LIKE? AMAZING GAME EVA!11!1ONE1! The game's new system of materia and limits was something extremly creative for its time. This added to the gameplay factor along with the first story that I accuatly had to pay attention to and try figure out what was going on. I felt almost like I was watching a movie how the story progressed I felt myself more caring more about what happened next then accuatly playing the game itself.

The fact that the game itself has been praised by so many to this day causes a great lot of confusion between what makes this game what it is. Before this game's popularity grew into immense proportions, this game was viewed by people with an honest eye. Not pre-determined like Squeek's opinions, thinking that final fantasy as a whole is generic crap. Squeek forget to take into consideration that square produces a handfull of RPGS aside from the FF series. Those other RPGs are also quite amazing and if they were'nt off topic I would bring up some.

My point being FFVII can never get an honest chance now due to how famous and infamous it has become amongst gamers. This is how it is and this happens with all things Movies, Bands, etc. Regardless if people took a look at this game in detailed. Pushed their personal opinion aside along with the fanboy crowd and millions of people that ruin this game's reputation, and seriously compared the game for its time and what had already been done. This game is ground breaking in alot more ways than people give it credit for.

To this day I dislike all the FF's after FFIX because the series lost its creativity completely. (FF12 was alright I guess) So if you think i'm a fanboy your poorly mistakened. I give credit where credit is due and push personal bullsh!t out of the way. FFVII deserves credit weither you believe it or not. This game did alot of things that companies try to copy and modify to this day. This game did not revolutionize RPGS forever but I was one hell of an amazing step up in 3-D RPGS. I can think of little RPG's prior to FFVII that had a story grabbed you and pulled you in.

For some of you who state this game was boring if you watch the first ten minutes of a movie I don't think your going sitting on the edge of your seat you fool. A game's story definatly progresses slower as well, after all it isn't a movie! If you didn't like the story of FFVII theres a very good chance you didn't understand the story even 75%. (not saying thats an excuse to not like the game's story) What I am saying is how can you say that game sucked when you didn't even really understand what happened. You can't cover half a picture and say this picture sucks when you can't even see the whole picture.

My biggest point i'm trying to get at is that people look at about 10% of this game and say "hey, this game bores me and everyone was right this game is given way to much credit. It sucks so bad I dont even want to no more" and I come from the complete opposite side of the table. I've played all the classics, all the newest hits, and everything in between. I can give an honest opinion in the matter and say that FFVII is far more ground breaking then people give credit for and not to mention quite possibly "ONE" of the most amazing games ever made. I might add that FFIII is one step behind, an amazing game for its time without a doubt. (but thats not for me to say in this topic) whew that was quite a bit to say. I'm done now

Hope this makes you happy squeek and next time if your going to complain about so many games at once supply some real reasons and not personal opinion. You think everyone is bashing you because you say something sucks and what you think dosn't matter. It's not that, it's the fact you have yet to mention any real reasons why you think these games "suck" so badly to the point they arn't even worth your time. Oviously your really close minded and set in your ways. Games like the Mana series (secret of mana for snes especially) are great games although you most likely think they suck too, Secret of evermore is another classic. Just for example of course..

Oh better make a new paragraph so you don't complain about that too, seriously grow a back bone and start putting out factual based opinions and not bunch of whiney rants about how much a company sucks because YOU SAID SO. seriously..

[zidart]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

well since i haven't said my reasons, i say that that chrono trigger is a very good game but is hard for me to say is the best, because im comparing it with today standarts, however the aspect of how the characters change to battle mode is interesting and something not seen in many RPGs, also the story is inmersive, but the character development is not very open, but if i think back to the games of that era i think it was a very good game.

well maybe i change my mind i just have to play more of it

[Squeek]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

there is a difference between opinion and reality. and i bet you didn't even play any of those games, or you simply hate RPGs (turn based i mean) you can talk all you want but the truth is that square-enix is one of the best RPG developers, i also love namco and atlus games, but they can't compete with square-enix games.

Didn't I say earlier that I played them? I'm pretty sure I did.

In any event, I did. As much as I could stand before I couldn't 'stands no more'.

I don't hate turn-based RPGs--I just prefer real-time RPGs.

Square Enix isn't one of the best--just one of the most profitable. Your opinion is that they're one of the best. My opinion is that they're one of the most generic and unoriginal developers ever.

Hope this makes you happy squeek and next time if your going to complain about so many games at once supply some real reasons and not personal opinion. You think everyone is bashing you because you say something sucks and what you think dosn't matter. It's not that, it's the fact you have yet to mention any real reasons why you think these games "suck" so badly to the point they arn't even worth your time. Oviously your really close minded and set in your ways. Games like the Mana series (secret of mana for snes especially) are great games although you most likely think they suck too, Secret of evermore is another classic. Just for example of course..

Oh better make a new paragraph so you don't complain about that too, seriously grow a back bone and start putting out factual based opinions and not bunch of whiney rants about how much a company sucks because YOU SAID SO. seriously..

k.

1) Final Fantasy.

Ever since the first game, it's been the same thing the entire freakin' time. All they do is make a slightly altered story and add in more meaningless crap. Admittedly, I haven't played every Final Fantasy game. However, I have played FFX, FFVII, and FFIII. I didn't like either of them, and they're apparently "among the best" in the series. Some people say VI and IX are good, so if I ever get free time after playing the games I actually enjoy, I might check them out. But I doubt it.

2) Kingdom Hearts.

The first one was decent. I wasn't bored and actually thought it was an original concept. However, the second game ruined the franchise for me. I found myself hitting start-down-X every two minutes. I found myself winning battles merely by mashing X and occasionally hitting triangle. The game lost its difficulty and gained endless, useless cutscenes. It was absolutely horrible and should never have been made. Not to mention utterly predicable and boring to sit through.

3) Chrono.

I played Chrono Trigger for maybe 5-10 hours and got bored. Nothing was happening. It wasn't really interesting to begin with and I only pressed on because so many people said it was great. I wasn't having fun. My friend used to play Chrono Cross whenever I visited and, while it looked decent, I have zero interest in playing it.

4) Xenogears.

I tried it based on Moogy and Kefit (two huge gaming folks on these forums)'s requests. I played 5 hours or so and never played it again. It had the same problem Chrono had. Slow start. Really boring. Really generic. I tried getting back into it a few months after my first play and just couldn't. It was so boring.

The problem here is that I played these generic turn-based random-encounter "omg we hav 2 sav da day" RPGs for years and have since gotten very sick of them. In 2004, a happy little game called Tales of Symphonia found its way into my life and changed my viewpoint on RPGs. Real-time battle? No random encounters? An insanely intricate and detailed plot that stays interesting throughout the ENTIRE game?! It's unheard of!

So that's my new standard. To date, only one RPG has surpassed that standard: Tales of the Abyss.

Just so you know, I've been playing games for 17 years now. I have a pretty solid backbone on my bases for these opinions of mine. I agree with most people on their favorite games, like Super Metroid being better than Metroid Prime (although Prime is very, very awesome and I highly anticipate the release of Corruption) and A Link to the Past being better than Ocarina of Time, which is better than Twilight Princess. I do have the ability to formulate my own theories, which I tend not to deviate from.

Only one person has managed to convince me to buy a game I didn't want, and that was Moogy with my purchase of Disgaea and Odin Sphere. They're fun games, but even so, I think a lot of games are better. I'm only on the third book of Odin Sphere and I'm pretty tired of having to play the game over and over again as slightly different characters (though Mercedes is pretty unique). Disgaea, on the other hand... well, I'm at 100 hours now and working toward maxing out the stats on the best sword in the game while maxing out the base stats of my main character, which'll ultimately take another 50 hours or so.

Oh PS - I can hate an entire franchise for one bad seed. I hate entire anime series just for how it ended, even if I liked every episode leading up to the very last one. If I have a bad meal at a restaurant after dozens of good meals, I probably won't return to that restaurant. That's how I am and I refuse to change.

[jamuko]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

Final Fantasy sucks. Kingdom Hearts was lame. Chrono didn't manage to hold my interest. Xenogears got boring fast. Seiken Densetsu never interested me. Nor did Dragon Quest. Valkyrie Profile is too rare to even bother trying out.

Not to be picky, but I have to give credit where credit is due with regard to my favorite underappreciated developer.

Valkyrie Profile was developed by tri-Ace, the same people who made Star Ocean. It was produced by Enix. Enix's name may be associated with Square's nowadays, but not when the original VP was made (the one you are talking about presumably since your excuse is its rarity).

Square had absolutely nothing to do with the making of Valkyrie Profile, so don't list it among the likes of FF. >.<

[Smok3y]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

You guys should all be ashamed of yourselves for even acknowledging this thread...

Seriously.

[zidart]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

Didn't I say earlier that I played them? I'm pretty sure I did.

In any event, I did. As much as I could stand before I couldn't 'stands no more'.

I don't hate turn-based RPGs--I just prefer real-time RPGs.

Square Enix isn't one of the best--just one of the most profitable. Your opinion is that they're one of the best. My opinion is that they're one of the most generic and unoriginal developers ever.



k.

1) Final Fantasy.

Ever since the first game, it's been the same thing the entire freakin' time. All they do is make a slightly altered story and add in more meaningless crap. Admittedly, I haven't played every Final Fantasy game. However, I have played FFX, FFVII, and FFIII. I didn't like either of them, and they're apparently "among the best" in the series. Some people say VI and IX are good, so if I ever get free time after playing the games I actually enjoy, I might check them out. But I doubt it.

2) Kingdom Hearts.

The first one was decent. I wasn't bored and actually thought it was an original concept. However, the second game ruined the franchise for me. I found myself hitting start-down-X every two minutes. I found myself winning battles merely by mashing X and occasionally hitting triangle. The game lost its difficulty and gained endless, useless cutscenes. It was absolutely horrible and should never have been made. Not to mention utterly predicable and boring to sit through.

3) Chrono.

I played Chrono Trigger for maybe 5-10 hours and got bored. Nothing was happening. It wasn't really interesting to begin with and I only pressed on because so many people said it was great. I wasn't having fun. My friend used to play Chrono Cross whenever I visited and, while it looked decent, I have zero interest in playing it.

4) Xenogears.

I tried it based on Moogy and Kefit (two huge gaming folks on these forums)'s requests. I played 5 hours or so and never played it again. It had the same problem Chrono had. Slow start. Really boring. Really generic. I tried getting back into it a few months after my first play and just couldn't. It was so boring.

The problem here is that I played these generic turn-based random-encounter "omg we hav 2 sav da day" RPGs for years and have since gotten very sick of them. In 2004, a happy little game called Tales of Symphonia found its way into my life and changed my viewpoint on RPGs. Real-time battle? No random encounters? An insanely intricate and detailed plot that stays interesting throughout the ENTIRE game?! It's unheard of!

So that's my new standard. To date, only one RPG has surpassed that standard: Tales of the Abyss.

Just so you know, I've been playing games for 17 years now. I have a pretty solid backbone on my bases for these opinions of mine. I agree with most people on their favorite games, like Super Metroid being better than Metroid Prime (although Prime is very, very awesome and I highly anticipate the release of Corruption) and A Link to the Past being better than Ocarina of Time, which is better than Twilight Princess. I do have the ability to formulate my own theories, which I tend not to deviate from.

Only one person has managed to convince me to buy a game I didn't want, and that was Moogy with my purchase of Disgaea and Odin Sphere. They're fun games, but even so, I think a lot of games are better. I'm only on the third book of Odin Sphere and I'm pretty tired of having to play the game over and over again as slightly different characters (though Mercedes is pretty unique). Disgaea, on the other hand... well, I'm at 100 hours now and working toward maxing out the stats on the best sword in the game while maxing out the base stats of my main character, which'll ultimately take another 50 hours or so.

Oh PS - I can hate an entire franchise for one bad seed. I hate entire anime series just for how it ended, even if I liked every episode leading up to the very last one. If I have a bad meal at a restaurant after dozens of good meals, I probably won't return to that restaurant. That's how I am and I refuse to change.

right, i see why you hate kingdom hearts 2, but the other ones are senseless that are not even reasons just your typical "they are boring", (except for the tales of symphonia wich was good) but well it's not only me who says square-enix is one of the best, but i guess you just don't like turn-based RPG's

[Darkjakk]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

the truth is that square-enix is one of the best RPG developers,

Wrong on 10 different levels.

It is no where near the best RPG developer. Especially with the crap they've been putting out lately. All the Final Fantasy series is them right now is a cash cow. Plain and simple.


If you want great RPG Developers you look at the people who made Planescape, Arcanum, Fallout, Daggerfall (First in the Elder Scroll series). Those are all RPGs that are years old and are still better than 90% of the crap out there (FF7 included). Final Fantasy 7 is just a decent RPG. Thats all it is. Its not even the best one in the series =/

[zidart]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

Wrong on 10 different levels.

It is no where near the best RPG developer. Especially with the crap they've been putting out lately. All the Final Fantasy series is them right now is a cash cow. Plain and simple.


If you want great RPG Developers you look at the people who made Planescape, Arcanum, Fallout, Daggerfall (First in the Elder Scroll series). Those are all RPGs that are years old and are still better than 90% of the crap out there (FF7 included). Final Fantasy 7 is just a decent RPG. Thats all it is. Its not even the best one in the series =/

well the only final fantasy i didn't like is XI (is on-line and i have to pay every month or so to play it? no thanks) but every game i play of square-enix turns out to be very good, (and is not only my opinion)

kingdom hearts 2 and dragon quest VIII were nominated in Gphoria 2006 as best RPGS (of course elder scrolls bear both of them, no argument is better) but just being nominated form hundreds of RPGs well i think they really are good.
and this year final fantasy XII was nominated for hottest babe (wich is not a good thing XD) , for best RPG and for best game of the year (twilight princess won in best RPG no again no arguments there) ok they are not the best, but they are one of the best

[CobaltWire]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

Before we go any further, I just wanna remind you all that the question is which one of the 2 games was more ground breaking, not which one is better. Sales number and popularity have nothing to do with this. In other words, which do you think was more revolutionary than the other. Remember that they are both great games, and that you're just stating an opinion.

[Darkjakk]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

Gphoria sucks None of those 3 were that great. Especially not Oblivion. Oblivion sucks. "Woo! Im the master of everything leader of every single guild without any forseeable consequences and everyone still wants to talk to me about mudcrabs." Breathtaking.

[zidart]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

Gphoria sucks None of those 3 were that great. Especially not Oblivion. Oblivion sucks. "Woo! Im the master of everything leader of every single guild without any forseeable consequences and everyone still wants to talk to me about mudcrabs." Breathtaking.

let me remind you that people who vote in Gphoria are gamers, and they just don't win because magic says so, people vote for them.

sorry i got out of topic. guess is obvious, that is say FF7 was more groundbreaking

[hi19hi19]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

Gphoria sucks None of those 3 were that great. Especially not Oblivion. Oblivion sucks. "Woo! Im the master of everything leader of every single guild without any forseeable consequences and everyone still wants to talk to me about mudcrabs." Breathtaking.

Haha, that's so true. Nice summary. That's why Morrowind was better, there were consequences and you had to actually make choices about your development. Not to mention the entire game didn't for some reason level with you...

Chrono Trigger: New Game+, multiple endings, time travel is the most badass thing ever, etc.
FF7: Funky hair dudes with big swords. Same exact battle system as FF5 and FF6 (IIRC), same overworld system. Plotline was kinda okay but not as A+ as Chrono Trigger.

My vote goes out to Crono and friends. Also, let us note that I think Chrono Trigger has a better sequel(s) too.

Valkyrie Profile is too rare to even bother trying out.

Whoa there. VP is the one Square game I really like (for the PS1, not the sequel for PS2 or the remake for PSP)
Don't knock what you haven't tried yet. I have two copies of the game; you can buy one from me for $100 if you want

[Squeek]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

Not to be picky, but I have to give credit where credit is due with regard to my favorite underappreciated developer.

Valkyrie Profile was developed by tri-Ace, the same people who made Star Ocean. It was produced by Enix. Enix's name may be associated with Square's nowadays, but not when the original VP was made (the one you are talking about presumably since your excuse is its rarity).

Square had absolutely nothing to do with the making of Valkyrie Profile, so don't list it among the likes of FF. >.<

I knew one of them was Tri-Ace, but Square's Wiki entry said they made the game =/

I've been had.

Also, zidart, I swear I've said this so many times now. I PREFER real-time to turn-based RPGs, but I still ENJOY turn-based RPGs! Baten Kaitos was a fantastic RPG. Immensely unique, great story, and sweet soundtrack. And that's just one example. I have enjoyed dozens of other turn-based RPGs.

[UtopiaXD]

Re: FF7 or Crono Trigger? Which was more ground breaking?

Chrono Trigger: New Game+, multiple endings, time travel is the most badass thing ever, etc.
FF7: Funky hair dudes with big swords. Same exact battle system as FF5 and FF6 (IIRC), same overworld system. Plotline was kinda okay but not as A+ as Chrono Trigger.

My vote goes out to Crono and friends. Also, let us note that I think Chrono Trigger has a better sequel(s) too.

First off, thats the most retarted set of reasons ever and I love all 3 of these games. New game + was cool but really just a lame way to increase replay value. The best thing about the game was most likely the multiple endings IMO. Problem was Chrono Trigger honestly did lack story line. It was there but really messy and definatly not an amazing in anyway.

FF6 had a better story then Chrono i'm sorry to say it and WTF are you talking about FFVII had the same battle as FF5 and FF6? Are you serious FF5 used the job systems which is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same, and FF6 the only thing that had in common is some of the commands you could gain by materia in FFVII and the spells which is oviously that way in every FF. So that point you made was stupid, along with bashing the way Cloud looks the hair and his sword have nothing to do with this game being good or bad or anything for that matter. Thats your 2 reasons for FFVII being less ground breaking um, yea I'm not gona even bother.

Wrong on 10 different levels.

It is no where near the best RPG developer. Especially with the crap they've been putting out lately. All the Final Fantasy series is them right now is a cash cow. Plain and simple.

Final Fantasy 7 is just a decent RPG. Thats all it is. Its not even the best one in the series =/

The first thing you said is true its seriously all about money now to them... and its sad really. But I'm not sure what your reasoning behind thinking FFVII is so average. Saying that FFVII is not even of the best in its series is really giving it no credit what so ever. I mean i'm not gona repeat myself read up top if you want, but FFVII is far more than decent regardless of what people have degraded it too.