Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

[Dragula219]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

Whoever said students would get varying amounts of money tied to them based on their economic standing?

You completely missed his point. I'm sure everyone would get the same amount with vouchers, but it wouldn't make any difference because not every school would have an admission that is the same amount as the voucher or less. The "good" schools would cost more than the voucher, leading to the same situation we already have: Rich people - good education; Poor people - bad education.

That's the -point-. The bad schools either improve or disappear while the good schools persist. As for spacing, then just limit the number of students who can go to each school based on space and use a lottery to determine which get in. The bad schools will still have less students, as if a school is the fourth best, the three above it will fill first.

Except that wouldn't happen. They wouldn't die, because they're getting the same small amount of money as public schools do now. They would survive as the "bad" schools for poor people. The voucher idea sounds really good in theory, but if you look closer it's the exact same thing we have now.

The only way to solve this problem is to have better teachers in public schools. The students aren't interested in learning because teacher aren't making learning interesting. Giving more incentive to teachers is a good way of solving it. You mentioned that the amount spent on students is around $10,000 dollars a piece, my question is: Where the hell is all that money going? Cause it sure as hell isn't going to the teachers. About the unions, we simply have to be stricter on what teachers are hired and fired. I don't believe the unions are strong enough to keep a teachers job when upper management can prove that they can't teach well.

Maybe another solution is teach the teachers better, but that's a whole other issue.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

The voucher idea is not the exact same thing we have now. If you look closely you'll realize that the incentive to improve is built right into the system. There might be relatively worse schools, sure, and in that sense there isn't anything we can do to change that, but the schools would be better in terms of absolute value than they are now.

[Dragula219]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

The voucher idea is not the exact same thing we have now. If you look closely you'll realize that the incentive to improve is built right into the system. There might be relatively worse schools, sure, and in that sense there isn't anything we can do to change that, but the schools would be better in terms of absolute value than they are now.

Where is this magical incentive coming from? Are you referring to the fact that they could have more money by attracting more students? It doesn't work that way. More Students = More Teachers = More Money Needed. Not to mention More Teachers = (Inevitably) More Bad Teachers and More Students = Less Individualized Learning. Correct me if you are saying the incentive comes from somewhere else. I still don't understand how that is any better than what we have now. It's basically saying "You have the right to choose whatever ****ty school you want your kids to go to, if you don't have any more money to spend than the voucher."

[Relambrien]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

Where is this magical incentive coming from? Are you referring to the fact that they could have more money by attracting more students? It doesn't work that way. More Students = More Teachers = More Money Needed. Not to mention More Teachers = (Inevitably) More Bad Teachers and More Students = Less Individualized Learning. Correct me if you are saying the incentive comes from somewhere else. I still don't understand how that is any better than what we have now. It's basically saying "You have the right to choose whatever ****ty school you want your kids to go to, if you don't have any more money to spend than the voucher."

I'd like to respond to this, but I think I may be misunderstanding you a bit. I'll wait for Kilroy's response; that way I should be able to figure out what you're saying.

Of course, if you could say this in different words, I could probably respond without waiting, if that's what you'd like.

[MarisaKirisame]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

Well, Kilroy, it looks like you've proven me wrong. Good job on that, and thanks for doing so.

But yeah, I probably should not have argued something I had almost no experience with, haha.

[Skare Krow]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

In my opinion I think we need to change the way America thinks and a lot of the world as well. We learn so much stuff that we don't need to know to survive. People graduate college and can't do their own laundry. People can't cook or some people don't even know how to take care of their children which I think is terrible. What they teach in Kindergarten, Elementary, and Middle School is fine but it's different for Highschool and College. In Highschool they should teach teenagers basic things they need to know on how to live and take care for a family. Than College should be only about what their profession that they want to pursue and nothing else. This would lead to less time in school and more time to live your life. You live once and only once and not for a log time either. All humans want to do is have fun, raise a family, and help out future generations. We do not need anymore knowledge. The world is being destroyed because of our knowledge. Pollution, war, and disease is all caused by our "futuristic" technology. What we do need to keep researching is cures for cancer and alternate fuels.

[MarisaKirisame]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

It's not terribly often that a college kid knows what to do with the rest of their lives.

Also, it's up to the parents to teach their kids how to live on their own.

Pollution, war, and disease is all caused by our "futuristic" technology.

We'd still pollute stuff without all of the technology we have today. In fact, technology is now starting to focus on being cleaner. I understand that cars, factories, etc. have probably polluted the crap out of everything, but people are trying to stop it from getting worse.

Our technology didn't cause war. We'd have war even if we were whacking each other with sticks and branches. There's probably LESS war because of the technology.

Also, diseases have almost NOTHING to do with technology :/ Where'd that come from?

Really, though, going back to the college thing, my neighbor graduated from college with, well, something completely unrelated to what she does now. She is now a teacher. Even though she had no experience, she applied, they accepted her, and she is now very happy with her job. No one really knows what they want in their life when they're 20, or 25, or 35.

When I say "no one", I mean it's pretty rare for someone to actually decide they want something early on and life and for them to still want it later in life.

[RJC50000]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

Also, it's up to the parents to teach their kids how to live on their own.

The responsibility may fall upon the parents to teach there children how to live on their own but how many parents actually do this?

I think schools should incorperate a life management class into their curriculum.

[Skare Krow]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

My main point is that we live once and only once. All we need to do is survive and what we do while we survive is up to us. Why can't we learn what we need to know to survive, study on a profession that you would like to be, get that job, and take care of your family and have a fun.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

Where is this magical incentive coming from? Are you referring to the fact that they could have more money by attracting more students? It doesn't work that way. More Students = More Teachers = More Money Needed. Not to mention More Teachers = (Inevitably) More Bad Teachers and More Students = Less Individualized Learning.

Incorrect. The ratio of money in relationship to other factors would determine whether or not this was the case, and unless those running the program were incredibly stupid such a suboptimal arrangement would not occur. Bad teachers detract from a schools value and therefore from its earning potential. Individualized learning is a seperate issue and in addition to its merits being contestable, it wouldn't necessarily be harmed by a voucher program.

I still don't understand how that is any better than what we have now. It's basically saying "You have the right to choose whatever ****ty school you want your kids to go to, if you don't have any more money to spend than the voucher."

I don't think you understand the mechanics of the proposal well enough to make such a bold statement.

[Kilroy_x]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

Well, Kilroy, it looks like you've proven me wrong. Good job on that, and thanks for doing so.

Hey, no problem. It's good to see someone willing to concede so graciously.

But yeah, I probably should not have argued something I had almost no experience with, haha.

Well, life is a learning experience right? There's no need to take my second-hand account for things though; if future job experience leads you to form a difference in opinion, then I suppose I'll have to find new arguments to support my position.

[devonin]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

Hey, no problem. It's good to see someone willing to concede so graciously.

There needs to be more of this in CT.

[Skare Krow]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

Nice scarecrow devonin.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

Methinks it's a straw man.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Shamo0]

Re: Public Schools - Bad for American Students?

School should be a place where you can have fun. I don't really care if rank poorly to other countries. I really don't. If I want to have fun during school than I will.

If kids want to be smart they will be. If they want to slack off they will. I don't really blame public schools, because if I did I'd have to blame the media. Everything just all comes down to lack of motivation and interaction from parents. In the future if I have kids, I won't care if they are straight a's or straight f's. They can choose what they want to be but I'll point them in the right direction. I honestly don't care.


I feel bad for kids who feel pressured by there parents to be the best. I feel bad for kids when they don't know right from wrong. It all comes down to parenting. Families are spreading apart now faster and faster. It's not a bad thing or a good thing it's just different and since it's different, different results will result :P