The Constitutionality of Partial-Birth Abortions

[fusi0n]

I really hope he was joking. I will just assume so.

[Chrissi]

Okay, does anybody -actually- know? This sounds so incredibly bizarre.

I mean, the world goes into a huge fuss about abortions, and then somebody just suddenly rules something that is OBVIOUSLY WORSE than abortions and not practical, legal...

Why?? It's crazy! It's sad!

[fusi0n]

Go to a partial-birth abortion party.

[chaosjr17]

Uhh.. Is it just me, or does it seem like it would be 100% more logical to just put the infant up for adoption rather than end its life? Otherwise a sad story.

[Cyborg_Mermaid]

To comment on the ruling, that judge is pretty bold to call the ban "vague". Now for my take on it; if abortion is banned 100% (impossible) it will still be practiced on an underground level because women who are pro-choice will still exercise their now "stolen rights" over their "own body". (Quotes because those I don't agree with that at all) So now partial-birth abortions will be practiced potentially by uncertified/undertrained medical officials, or amateurs if worse, with a lack of proper tools or anything else needed to maintain the mother's safety during the process. With first-term abortions it may be a different story but I'm staying on partial.

So either the abortions happen in suitable and safe conditions that will properly tend to the mother, or all that is taken away and she still does it only not in a clinic but the basement of some would-be doctor who's trying to make some cash off of his own luck. The latter scenario would tell anybody that something's bound to go wrong and two people are impacted needlessly instead of the only intended one. In that aspect it's safe to say that keeping abortions legal may be, sadly, a necessary evil because of it being inevitable at this point.

I sound pro-choice with that, but I hate abortion with a heavy passion and that's all I can say to remain on course with this topic, what I believe about where life begins and blah blah can come up another time. Nobody has the right to take the life of another casually, in times of need it's alright, but not as a way out of carelessly sleeping around and whatnot.

[Playingplayer]

That makes sense, Mermaid, but does that mean that we should resign ourselves to it because it's inevitable? I suppose I'm an idealist, but I would like to think that if society extended more help to expecting mothers, both emotional and financial, instead of largly shunning these women of "Loose Morals" We could both eliminate the need for abortion by ensuring that both the baby and mother are cared for and happy. The problem, as I see it, is that a lot of people who are Pro-Life don't want this and want to deny women both contraceptives to prevent pregnancies and help in their times of need. I'm proud to seperate myself from them while staying Pro-Life.

Sorry about that, about the Partial Birth Abortions, I really believe there is no excuse for it, if you absolutly positively must have an abortion, why would you wait until the baby's nearly born? Not only is the baby killed, it is more dangerous for the mother to wait until the baby's developed. There seems to be no reason, logic or rational for this other then the maxim "my body, my choice".

[eyespewgreekfire]

Just so you guys know, partial birth abortion does not mean killing the baby postnatally. It means abortion in either the second or third trimester, which is not nearly as gruesome. Personally I support abortion late in term if there is danger if the pregnancy continues but think this judge is way out of line. Also, in her self interest, I get the feeling she's not doing herself a favor either, making so many people angry.

[Jam930]

Ending a human life due to inconvenience is selfish and wrong.

[alvask8er]

So what about checks n balances? Cant the legislative override the judges veto?

As for the method of partial birth abortion, that sounds insanely cruel and unnecessary. Fetal skulls are really not all that strong, and they have a huge softspot, known as the anterior fontanel, and you could stick that vaccum right through there without the need to crush the skull. Dont get me wrong though, that is still fucking wrong.

Im pro-choice only if its very early on and it was a case of rape or if the woman would not be able to raise a healty child(ie like a 13 year old or somthing....even though they can get pregnant, their bodies really arent ready for it.)
Don't click here unless you are fucked up

[Jam930]

Statistically almost zero percent of rapes result in pregnancy.

Strange how belief in anything like a "soul" is completely forgotten.
The beginning of life is when the sperm enters the egg.

[Chrissi]

Statistically almost zero percent of rapes result in pregnancy.

Where'd you get this?

[User6773]

Actually, Chrissi, Jamie is quite right here. About 1 or 2 out of 1000 rapes results in pregnancy.

There are about 100 million women in the United States old enough to be at risk for assault rape. Let’s use a figure of 200,000 forcible rapes every year. The studies available agree that there are no more than two pregnancies per 1,000 assault rapes.

So much for the numbers. Let’s look at it from another angle and see if that figure makes sense.

- Of these 200,000 women who were raped, one-third were either too old or too young to get pregnant. That leaves 133,000 at risk of pregnancy.

- A woman is capable of being fertilized only three days out of her 30-day month. So divide 133,000 by 10, and 13,300 women remain.

- One-fourth of all women in the United States of child-bearing age have been sterilized. That drops the figure to 10,000.

- Only half of the assailants penetrate her body and/or deposit sperm. Cut it in half again. We are own to 5,000.

- Fifteen percent of men are sterile; that drops the figure to 4,250. Fifteen percent of non-surgically sterilized women are naturally sterile. That reduces the number to 3,600.

- Another 15% are on the pill and/or are already pregnant. Now the figure is 3,070. Now factor in something that all adults know. It takes from five to ten months for an average couple to achieve a pregnancy. Using the smaller figure, to be conservative, divide the 3,000 figure by 5, and the number drops to about 600.

In a healthy, peaceful marriage, the miscarriage rate ranges up to about 15%. In this case, we have incredible emotional trauma. Her body is upset. Even if she conceives, the miscarriage rate is higher than in a more normal pregnancy. If she loses 20% of 600, there are 450 left. Finally, we must factor in one of the most important reasons why a rape victim rarely gets pregnant, and that is psychic trauma. Every woman is aware that stress and emotional factors can alter her menstrual cycle. To get pregnant and stay pregnant, a woman’s body must produce a very sophisticated mix of hormones. Hormone production is controlled by a part of the brain which is easily influenced by emotions. There’s no greater emotional trauma that can be experienced by a woman than an assault rape. This can radically upset her possibility of ovulation, fertilization, implantation and even nurturing of a pregnancy. So what further percentage reduction in pregnancy will this cause? No one really knows, but this factor certainly cuts the last figure by at least 50%, and probably more, leaving a final figure of 225 women pregnant each year, a number that closely matches the 200 found in clinical studies.

I think the real question is why we should consider partial birth abortion to be abhorrent and regular abortion to be a commonplace, "medical" practice. At what point is the baby's life no longer forfeit?

And beware before engaging me in this argument. View the old abortion thread (called "legal" abortion or something like that) where I successfully argued the pro-life stance for a good 8 pages.

[Jam930]

Never question my statistics.

[TheAppleEater]

I do not agree with abortion but I think I would let the woman do any kind of abortion... If that woman relizes what she did and saw the corpse of a baby come out of her, I'm sure that would much more of a punishment than anything legal.

[Jam930]

The Constitutionality of Partial-Birth Abortions

Well noone has really talked about the "constitutionality" of partial-birth abortions yet...

Probably because none of us really know anything about the constitution.