Should the government stop abortions?

[Catastrophe75]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

Oh, please. Population control is only considered when resources are strained. Last I checked, grocery shopping in the US or Britain wasn't too hard. Our populations are easily sustainable.

Abortion's still a form of population control with indigenous tribes of small South Pacific Islands, where their land simply can't support enough food for another child. War is also population control, there. We're certainly more civilized over here to have to even consider that.

Fair point i'd have to agree to a certain extent. Despite their being far to many people on this planet most of it is not infact down to western civilisation directly.Though you could argue that indirectly we strain many developing countries to meet the ends of our lives by making them work for the less than a dollar a day and families needing to support themselves must have multiple children to sustain themselves.

However it remains the fact that population has got out of hand. With ever increasing food demands and resources rapidly running out. Sensibility needs to play a role that we can't continue the way they live our lives. It boils down to whether you would like a comfatable live for humans in the next hundred years or a baron one for the children ever after.

Though abortion may play a small percentage of that in terms of numbers it still makes a large impact. Do we "need" those humans and the simple answer is we don't. Their is a sense of morality that says that the child should have the right to live and in all honest it should. However the human race has only itself to blame to having the inability to accomadate most of these aborted children.

So if society says that it's okay for people of [insert your race here] to be slaughtered like pigs just because they're of that decent, it should be okay? Hi, I'm from the United States. We crawled out of the dark ages of social justice forty years ago, and lemme tell you, going back should NOT be advocated, no matter how much society wants it.

In the exact same way, government should stand for certain things such as the equality of man and the protection of life.

Though I understand elected government is there to make decisions on behalf of us. I'm stating that society still dictates what's acceptable. For example, a larger percentage of children do not respect their elders today than in comparison with a century ago. Now regardless of the reasons why this may have been, this was the case. If a majority of society feels that abortion is wrong and unjustified then things will change. They can elect a new government which will in time appoint new judges in the supreme court which then can interperet what the constitution says whether it be pro life or for abortion. Whether or not judicial activism is right.

The child doesn't, though.

Very true it doesn't. I dislike the idea that abortion is used widely as a form of contraception rather than its intended purpose to a great extent. If a mother can't support the child, she was raped, incest etc. There are varying degrees on what's acceptable however a mother should have the right to whether that child lives to a certain point.

The question is what's that point, at what time can you say it's unjustifyable.
Considering by my logic of population control that possibly disabilitated babies shouldn't be allowed to enter society. Lets just say I haven't truely made up my mind yet considering it's such a complex issue and I doubt I will anytime soon.

Thanks for the points.

[stretchypanda]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

Well sure there should be some special exception put in place for such a tragedy but even then it should be taken care of immediately or otherwise it was her decision to put it off in which consequences should be endured.

I am pretty sure this wins Ignorant Statement of the Century.

Being raped is humiliating. No one jumps up immediately after the rapist is gone and announces, "Well, I've been raped, I guess I'd better get myself to the hospital for an uncomfortable, invasive procedure that will only prolong my humiliation." Probably more than thousands of rapes go unreported because the assault the woman has just endured is so humiliating she'd really rather just crawl in a hole and die than let anyone know what just happened to her. So if that woman just takes a shower and tries to put her life back together on her own, and then a few weeks later realizes she hasn't had a period, she's just stuck with this little "parting gift"?

And what of the situation of date rape? At a seminar I attended, the speaker told a story of getting way too drunk and allowing some boy to take her home, and then not remembering anything beyond that until the next morning when he left. She wasn't even sure they'd had sex until she discovered she was pregnant. You can't exactly terminate a pregnancy you don't know about.

[flipsta_lombax]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

I'm pro-choice, but with strict limits.

I don't think that government should stop abortions, but I feel that there should be a limit at what age the baby gets aborted, like before the development stage. I give it 5-6 weeks, around the climax of the embryotic stage. Then after those six weeks, it should be illegal.

In my opinion, this may help give any women: raped, accidental, or just plain inconsiderate of their sexual activities, to have a choice at aborting their 'embryo'. I mean, if they take more than 1 and a half months to know and decide about their baby, then they have issues.

Everyone views abortion differently. Some consider that life isn't as important to them, while others believe that when a sperm and an egg conjoins, it is considered as life and has emotional values, and shouldn't be messed with.

For me to consider something much as life, it has to have a heart beating. 6 weeks for me is almost pushing it, because the baby will have a heart after the 7th.

This is a hard subject to contemplate...

[Squeek]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

It's pretty obvious that I don't really care. I don't see what the huge issue is. Oh noes, killing unborn children you don't want. So, it's better to have them born and live a life full of neglect and malnutrition than to just let them die. That totally makes sense.

Guido, I want to meet these people who think aborting even rape babies is wrong. I doubt any of them are women.

[flipsta_lombax]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

It's pretty obvious that I don't really care. I don't see what the huge issue is. Oh noes, killing unborn children you don't want. So, it's better to have them born and live a life full of neglect and malnutrition than to just let them die. That totally makes sense.

Guido, I want to meet these people who think aborting even rape babies is wrong. I doubt any of them are women.

Religious or has strong moral value?

I would suspect that with people with strong pro-life opinions.

[Chrissi]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

Congratulations to the anti-abortion users for neglecting the most important aspect of all abortions.

Rape babies.

Why do you think women had abortions in the first place? Surely you don't think every woman out there who wants an abortion made a mistake with her boyfriend and wants to cover it up, right?

They also missed on the fact that it takes two people to make a baby. All of the blame in those posts is placed on the woman - she has to pay the consequences for HER actions. What about the guy? Does he have to pay for his actions? In non-rape cases, the woman and man had as much a role to play as the other in the whole situation.

What is the man's responsibility?

[stretchypanda]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

The problem with setting a gestational age limit is that sometimes severe defects (such as anencephaly) cannot be detected prior to the second or even third trimester of a pregnancy. Abortions beyond this period are what the religious right have termed "partial-birth abortions", and they have been made out to be the most horrible act a human being can commit against another -- that mothers just up and decide toward the end of their pregnancies they no longer want their baby, and that is just not the case.

I recently read an article that sort of got me to change my thinking on the whole abortion issue. Couples who found out their child would be born with such horrible defects that not only would they only live very briefly, but those brief moments would be filled with intense physical suffering for the child, so they decided to terminate their pregnancies. This isn't like, "Oh, my child is going to have Downs, betr go kil him." It's a decision no parent wants to imagine facing -- do I carry my baby to term just to watch him suffer and die in my arms thirty minutes later, or do I save him that tremendous pain and live with the knowledge that I was effectively responsible for his death?

They also missed on the fact that it takes two people to make a baby. All of the blame in those posts is placed on the woman - she has to pay the consequences for HER actions. What about the guy? Does he have to pay for his actions? In non-rape cases, the woman and man had as much a role to play as the other in the whole situation.

What is the man's responsibility?

thx u.

[MalReynolds]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

thx u.

He gets no choice in the matter of whether the baby is aborted or not, and if it is, he has to pay child suport. Well hey there, male responsibility.

[Catastrophe75]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

They also missed on the fact that it takes two people to make a baby. All of the blame in those posts is placed on the woman - she has to pay the consequences for HER actions. What about the guy? Does he have to pay for his actions? In non-rape cases, the woman and man had as much a role to play as the other in the whole situation.

What is the man's responsibility?

This is generally because a mans feelings are generally not considered. However i'm a completely for equal responsiblity but generally a lot of the time there are double standards. You expect men to have more responsiblity but when it suits a woman in certain cases she'd have the man have no say, and go ahead with it anyway.

It's an imperfect system a woman can have an abortion without a mans consent, how is this right? yet I have can live with the way it is because there are many men who say they'll commit to the child then **** off. Generally the lowest form of men on the planet. However if I were in the situation where I got a girl pregnant fully committed to help raise that child but she wanted an abortion, I feel that's slightly hitting the boundraies of double standards.

[OrganisM]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

Jesus, this subject's been overdone and all the things I've seen posted are completely stale arguments. I'll just drop my two cents and be out.

It is the mother who will have to give birth to the child, so it should be her choice. It has been proven many times that the baby cannot even detect pain until after the end of the first trimester.

I despise Christianity's stranglehold over the US, and see it as a purveyor of ignorance and fear, just like all organized religions. Sorry, blindly devoted pseudo-intellectuals, your reign is over soon.

Let me regurgitate the issue of rape: A woman is badly humiliated, violated, destroyed, and left with her shattered mind to rot, and you're going to make her give birth to the spawn of the man that willfully broke her and infested her? The baby is not born yet, so don't make the poor woman give birth to, care for, and raise the child of the man who raped her.

Now for the socio-economic regurgitation: Let's say two teens have stupid, careless, unprotected sex, and the girl is impregnated. Let's also assume that they don't have infinite stores of money and a house of their own at age 16. Let's even assume they're in a the poorest area of the poorest country and can hardly afford to take care of themselves. You're willfully going to subject the kid to a broken childhood and possible starvation? It's a sad old story. Who says the kid who was an accident when his parents were 16 wouldn't have joined the gangs of 1990's LA as a source of belonging and protection? There are so many diverse examples, and not in any single one of them do I find it alright to let the child be born and put the parents' stupidity upon the child. The child could suffer far more through its life, and won't know the difference until it's born and raised.

If you make all abortions illegal, you won't stop them. You'll just make them the unsanitary illegal abortions that have gone on before, and those are far worse than anything clean and legal. Don't take abortions out of the hospitals and put them into the hands of unexperienced pseudo-doctors when the baby's in the third trimester.

Maybe it's just me, but abortions are often times the most human thing to do. Saying "oh, but you extinguish precious life!" is like me calling whichever of you has ever stepped on an ant and extinguished its life a murderer. And it's really not fair to place an arbitrary importance on a human fetus, especially since it's not really much of a human until it's born. It's no more alive than an ant or a c0ckroach, even though we've been taught that if it doesn't have two eyes, a nose, a mouth, and isn't extraordinarily cute, it's okay to kill it.

To all of you who take antibiotics when sick: You kill millions of bacteria! You bacteria-murdering heartless freaks!!


And another thing, slipstrike, what right do you have to determine what one's place in society is, and whether they're useful to it? What does society care for the impoverished and unwanted baby anyways?

When the baby's born unwanted, that REALLY helps its development. I'm sure the baby will grow up to be a mentally healthy, happy, contributing member of society, just the way you'd like it.

[devonin]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

It is the mother who will have to give birth to the child, so it should be her choice.

This is generally because a mans feelings are generally not considered. However i'm a completely for equal responsiblity but generally a lot of the time there are double standards. You expect men to have more responsiblity but when it suits a woman in certain cases she'd have the man have no say, and go ahead with it anyway.

They also missed on the fact that it takes two people to make a baby. All of the blame in those posts is placed on the woman - she has to pay the consequences for HER actions

Isn't it kind of funny how if the woman wants an abortion and the man wants to keep the baby, that the woman can just go have an abortion without him, but if the man doesn't want the baby and the woman does, not only can the women just ignore him and keep the baby, she can still demand that he pay support.

That's where the doubestandard is. Either the man and woman have equal responsability or they don't. If they have equal responsability, then the man should have an -equal- say in whether the baby is kept. If they don't have equal responsability, then unfortunately, if the man doesn't want the kid, they should in my opinion be perfectly allowed to have no part of it.

I mean, it's a jackass thing to do, and you hope that people are being responsable enough to not just have sex willy-nilly with random people, but lets not kid ourselves.

I just don't think it is necessarily fair that two people can get together one night after the bar, and just because the woman decides she wants to keep the kid, suddenly have the right to demand the same from the man.

This story here http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html Actually kinda highlights the attitude I find so reprehensible.

[OrganisM]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

Isn't it kind of funny how if the woman wants an abortion and the man wants to keep the baby, that the woman can just go have an abortion without him, but if the man doesn't want the baby and the woman does, not only can the women just ignore him and keep the baby, she can still demand that he pay support.

That's where the doubestandard is. Either the man and woman have equal responsability or they don't. If they have equal responsability, then the man should have an -equal- say in whether the baby is kept. If they don't have equal responsability, then unfortunately, if the man doesn't want the kid, they should in my opinion be perfectly allowed to have no part of it.

I mean, it's a jackass thing to do, and you hope that people are being responsable enough to not just have sex willy-nilly with random people, but lets not kid ourselves.

I just don't think it is necessarily fair that two people can get together one night after the bar, and just because the woman decides she wants to keep the kid, suddenly have the right to demand the same from the man.

This story here http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html Actually kinda highlights the attitude I find so reprehensible.

Wow, right in front of my face and I couldn't see it. I'd quite forgotten about that one.

By mother's choice, I meant in terms of rape, where the father has abandoned the child and therefore really shouldn't have any say.

However, there's one problem: Where do you draw the line? I can't think that it's right for the father to force the mother to keep the baby, or that the mother can keep it against the father's will. What do you do?

[devonin]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

However, there's one problem: Where do you draw the line? I can't think that it's right for the father to force the mother to keep the baby, or that the mother can keep it against the father's will. What do you do?

If it is equally their responsibility, they should come to some equable agreement. I mean...I'm against the concept that the woman could be forced to carry to term against her will. If the man wants a child so badly and the woman doesn't, adoption, becoming a foster parent, or perhaps just understanding that your partner doesn't want a child, and maybe its time to find a new partner are perfectly valid options.

My issue is more when the woman is refusing to even consider that the man has any say at all in the situation, but will still insist that 50% of the (funny how it's always financial) responsibility of raising the kid is his, but 0% in of the responsibility in deciding to keep it.

[ChaosMaster1]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

It should be up to the woman to decide about abortion, they should not stop it.

(oh and i like frankie's avi =P)

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Should the government stop abortions?

Guido, I want to meet these people who think aborting even rape babies is wrong. I doubt any of them are women.

::waves hand:: You know at least one. And I guarantee you that there are women who think the same way. Valuing the sanctity of life is not gender-specific.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com