Homosexual Marriage

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

Lamoc: your pathetic appeals aren't doing anything here. The issue is a political one (at least, the issue that we discuss here on FFR). Our heartstrings have been sufficiently tugged for quite some time, now. You're pretty much just preaching to the choir about gays being people, too.

So what's your opinion on the political goings-on surrounding the issue?

You say, "Most states don't allow gay marriages," but you're failing to consider the most basic issues surrounding the gay marriage debate. Gays can get married anywhere in this country, and no law or part of the constitution can or will change that. Define your terms, here.

Then, you say, "You're removing rights of homosexuals of getting married." Please quote me the clause in the Constitution guaranteeing the right to marry whomever you want.

We're trying to have a logical debate and you're just throwing out pathetic appeals. You started the thread; try to be a part of it.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[adlp]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

everyone is afraid of homosexuals for some reason and in doing so they hate them.

some people cant tolerate others being different, and with most of the US population straight, they stick out in a crowd and become shunned.

Your removing freedoms of a large portion of the U.S.

2% of the US population is gay.

i would assume a large portion would be at least 1/5 instead of 1/50 of the population.


i personally think gay marrige is stupid based on my own sexual orientation. i also think that the idea of homosexuality is also stupid, seeing how MOST of fags turn gay for attention.

[Lamoc]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

haha, well its about 10% now. and most people are still in the closet but w/e.

And wtf attention? Why the hell would we want attention? That makes no sense. Telling people your gay normaly makes people hate you more.

[devonin]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

There's not a single appeal that can be made against homosexual marriage that can't be easily undone by just showing how that objection reflects upon heterosexual marriage.

"The gays can't have kids" - Many heterosexual couples don't have children, what about people who are physically unable to have children? Should they be forbidden to get married as well? Further, there's something wrong with creating stable, loving homes in which to raise the thousands upon thousands of children needing to be adopted?

"Any kids they have/adopt will be gay too!" - I really love this one, because probably 99.99% of all gay people were born and raised by straight parents, by this logic, the gays should have all straight kids!

"Homosexuality is unnatural" - The word unnatural means "contrary to nature" and homosexuality has been observed in nature in many species of animal. It's bad from a species-survival standpoint, but when a population is at a high level and potentially straining resources, homosexuality or at least bisexuality is a good plan, because it allows those species to copulate without risk of further reproduction straining resources. That's a crude brush to paint emotional, sentient humans with, but the objection still stands.

"They chose to be gay, so why should we cut them slack?" - Right...a substantial percentage of the population woke up one morning and thought to themselves 'you know what? I'm going to set myself up for years of emotional abuse, mocking, bigoted idiots, risking being fired from my job, disowned by my parents, and beaten up or even killed, because man, I think I'd really like some ****' Virtually all homosexuals and bisexuals -and- heterosexuals report discovering which one they were around or even before the time they started to develop sexually, there's ample evidence to support sexual orientation being genetic, right down to the knowledge that for every son a woman has, she is more likely to have a gay son (This has to do with hormones kept away from embryos once gender is determined, and the mother's body's ability to keep those hormones from the fetus degrading with each successive male child)

I mean, lets be honest, the -only- objections to homosexuals being accorded every single right, priviledge and responsability of hetersexuals is some misguided appeal to a religion that while you are free to practice, you are -forbidden- to force me to practice.

The religious right in the United States, and their equivalent in every other nation that outlaws gay marriage, are simply using their political influence to block any attempt to grant all of their citizens equal rights.

I mean, the political document they appeal to when lodging their objections was written at a time where "sodomy" was not only illegal, but in many places could get you executed. It simply never occured to anybody that someone who wasn't a "deviant" would ever want to get married. Homosexuality was listed in medical journals as a psychological disease until as recently as the 1980s. The instant it was discovered that with almost complete certainty, sexual orientation was genetic, and not a free choice later in life, it should have -automatically- become protected under the constitutional directive that nobody can be discriminated against for sex, creed, race or colour.

At this point it's entirely a matter of waiting for the still growing segment of the population that is becoming more politically and socially aware, and in large numbers, starting to swing to the left, to take enough control of government to give people the rights they should have had from the get go.

[ckj846]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

2% of the US population is gay.

i would assume a large portion would be at least 1/5 instead of 1/50 of the population.

State your sources because the numbers are much higher then that. There are more gay people in your life than you may think.

i personally think gay marrige is stupid based on my own sexual orientation. i also think that the idea of homosexuality is also stupid, seeing how MOST of fags turn gay for attention.

That's a sweeping generalization. Try being empathetic and realizing the stress and pain that someone has to go through to have the balls and say out loud that they are a minority in society. Not only a minority, but one who is looked down upon because of many religious institutions. Sure, you may think that gay marriage is "stupid," but at least have some evidence other then "most fags are turn gay for attention."

I would actually have to agree with devonin. He pretty much said everything that was swirling around in my head.

O_o

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

Homosexuality isn't necessarily "unnatural", but it sure is (allow me to create the phrase) "counter-natural".

I think the main problem with that argument on both sides is a problem of definition. The ones who give the argument mean one but say another assuming synonimity, and the ones who rebut the argument denounce the spoken term, not the intended one.

Homosexuality is indeed counterproductive to the most basic, most natural law of the animal kingdom: the progression of the species.

@Lamoc: stats, plz. I don't even believe the 2% figure, so suggesting that one in every ten people is gay is just a wee bit ridiculous to me. EDIT: haha, was ninja'd by ckj, which makes this point kind of funny.

@adlp: watch your rhetoric in CT. This is a place for mature discussion, not derogatory remarks.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[devonin]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

Homosexuality is indeed counterproductive to the most basic, most natural law of the animal kingdom: the progression of the species.

Unless the population is so strained for resources that further reproduction would be disastrous to the species being able to survive. At that point, being able to execute the biological imperative to copulate in a manner that doesn't lead to procreation is not only not bad, it's arguably very good.

Generally when someone makes the "it's unnatural" argument, they mean "It's not normal, you're a freak" in which case the "Actually it occurs in nature with around the same level of instance as in humanity" is a neat objection to the claim. Obiviously it's just as bad for humans as it is for any other species with regards to making more members of the species, but then we do all kinds of things that are horrible from a species survival standpoint *grin*

[Lamoc]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

@Lamoc: stats, plz. I don't even believe the 2% figure, so suggesting that one in every ten people is gay is just a wee bit ridiculous to me. EDIT: haha, was ninja'd by ckj, which makes this point kind of funny.
http://andy.mikee385.com

In school alone the stats were 1 in every 4 people were homosexual. in everyday lives we see 2 in every 15 or so. Homosexuality is becoming greater and greater. As you can see 1 in every 4 students are homosexual. Much greater than before. I think its because society is more "loose" with everything. And more with the express yourself concept. If society accepted homosexuals, I think there would be ALOT more than we see now.

[MRTL_mrclean17]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

Gay marriage seems to be an issue with which the government has completely circumvented the constitution which states "the seperation of Church and State". Marriage is religious by definition, and as thus should be left up to the churches to decide whether they allow gay couples to marry or not. Marriage in the legally documented sense should of course be left up to the government.
I wish more people were homosexual, not only would there be less contraversy on this issue, the lines at Wild Waves would be shorter.

[Godnick]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

I thought I would put my thoughts into this. I was gone the past couple days and saw how the last time this came up, the topic was.... well destroyed. This is a serious issue. If me reposting, er reviving this topic is against the rules let me know. I couldn't find anything about it.

You can't put a ban on homosexual marriages. Thats wrong. Your restricting the rights of people as well as limiting thier future.

Lets flip this around. How about a ban on hetrosexual marriages? (Hetro meaning "straight") How would that be? To ban 2 people putting everlasting love into each other by documentation. If that makes sense.

People don't have the right to prevent others from doing something. Thats invasion of anothers right to the constitution. Your removing freedoms of a large portion of the U.S.

Homosexual marriages should be allowed. Theres no question on that.

If you guys are having trouble understanding parts of this i'm sorry. I tried the best I could to make this as easy to read as I could. Just finished driving for 14 hours and very tired.

But if everybody in the world was gay, i think you know what would happen...

[Wlfwnd91]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

Alright, time for me to make my statement and leave, cause just like slipstrike, I don't want to turn this into another "Snickers controversy" thread which spun around in circles, which this will more than likely invariably do.

Now, before I get started I would like to say that I am bi, and also follow Satanic philosophy to a great extent, however I shall be as unbiased as I possibly can be in the rest of this little rant that I'm going to go on.

First of all, I don't believe that 1 in 4 of every students is gay/bi in any way, and I think that if it was a legitamit study it should be disregarded immediately, because first of all, a lot of high schoolers are either just confused, or trying to piss their parents off, I can't count how many guys have hit on me, and I'll get a crush on them and they immediately "Don't swing that way". I do believe there are more gays than we know about, however to quote a student study is kind of rediculous.

Marriage IS a religious institution and should NOT be controlled by the government in any way. And by this I mean that marriage should not have ANY benefits with insurance or taxes, it's simply rediculous. Then you have to take into consideration. What is "The church"? The Christian Church? The last time I checked, The Church of Satan was a certified church by the government, and the Church of Satan supports gay marriage 100%. It should be upto the church which the 2 people (or possibly more?) Chose to be united under.

The Church of Satan does hold marriage cerimonies, and you want to know what? The people being united don't receive any benefits whatsoever. And that's the way it should be. If you're getting married for benefits then you need to look at your relationship. If a sect of Christianity choses to let gays be married, then it shouldn't be condemned.

Now onto the whole homosexuality thing in general. I'm bi, and I hardly see how me kissing another guy affects a straight man or woman's life in any way. If I know a friend of mine is straight, I don't hit on him, plain and simple. I'm not going to go "Raping" some guy just because I'm gay. That's the MOST ignorant thing I've ever heard. And I love it when straight people say "You chose to be gay!" without even knowing what they're talking about. If you're not gay, you can't possibly assume something like that.

To end it off, I'm very happy being bi. And though it will never happen, we should stop judging people based on sex(ual orientation), race, religion, or anything like that. It's all a load of crap, but humans are too imperfect to accept differences.

[.4k]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

Personally, I'm against it, but if two gay ppl get married, that's their problem.

[evilcowgod]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

I really don't see why gay marriage shouldn't be legal. Most (if not all christians) are against it because they say it goes againt the bible. So what? Could you image what the world would be like if we based all of our laws on strictly what the bible said?

[Godnick]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

Alright, time for me to make my statement and leave, cause just like slipstrike, I don't want to turn this into another "Snickers controversy" thread which spun around in circles, which this will more than likely invariably do.

Now, before I get started I would like to say that I am bi, and also follow Satanic philosophy to a great extent, however I shall be as unbiased as I possibly can be in the rest of this little rant that I'm going to go on.

First of all, I don't believe that 1 in 4 of every students is gay/bi in any way, and I think that if it was a legitamit study it should be disregarded immediately, because first of all, a lot of high schoolers are either just confused, or trying to piss their parents off, I can't count how many guys have hit on me, and I'll get a crush on them and they immediately "Don't swing that way". I do believe there are more gays than we know about, however to quote a student study is kind of rediculous.

Marriage IS a religious institution and should NOT be controlled by the government in any way. And by this I mean that marriage should not have ANY benefits with insurance or taxes, it's simply rediculous. Then you have to take into consideration. What is "The church"? The Christian Church? The last time I checked, The Church of Satan was a certified church by the government, and the Church of Satan supports gay marriage 100%. It should be upto the church which the 2 people (or possibly more?) Chose to be united under.

The Church of Satan does hold marriage cerimonies, and you want to know what? The people being united don't receive any benefits whatsoever. And that's the way it should be. If you're getting married for benefits then you need to look at your relationship. If a sect of Christianity choses to let gays be married, then it shouldn't be condemned.

Now onto the whole homosexuality thing in general. I'm bi, and I hardly see how me kissing another guy affects a straight man or woman's life in any way. If I know a friend of mine is straight, I don't hit on him, plain and simple. I'm not going to go "Raping" some guy just because I'm gay. That's the MOST ignorant thing I've ever heard. And I love it when straight people say "You chose to be gay!" without even knowing what they're talking about. If you're not gay, you can't possibly assume something like that.

To end it off, I'm very happy being bi. And though it will never happen, we should stop judging people based on sex(ual orientation), race, religion, or anything like that. It's all a load of crap, but humans are too imperfect to accept differences.

I'm too lazy to read this book right now, I saved this on my word pad for later reading.

[evilcowgod]

Re: Homosexual Marriage

I'm too lazy to read this book right now, I saved this on my word pad for later reading.

Posting a longer version of tldr doesn't make your post any more intelligent.

If you don't want to read anything in CT and engage in discussion, I suggest you go back to ChitChat.