School systems in America.

[esupin]

Re: School systems in America.

Maybe we should just all boycott college.

I think the real question is what can we do about it? Not much. It feels good to shake your fist at the establishment, though, right? Once profs get tenured, they can (pretty much) do anything they want. Those that aren't might not get payed enough to care. Some universities are research based, which means their livelihood revolves around getting grants and having professors and students do research.

[Laharl]

Re: School systems in America.

No, seriously. The United States has some of the best colleges in the world. The average university in the United States actually teaches pretty well. Perhaps not in lower level courses (If I ever have another math teacher that doesn't speak English, I will kill myself), but really, going through college will get you a pretty good education.

People love to quote statistics, like they mean something. Okay, so maybe on a statistical level, we're not at the top. Big deal. I seem to be able to handle following any conversation I've ever had with someone from other countries that have done rather WELL in said other countries that tend to do very well in "internation competitions" when it comes to the smartz.

There are still more inventions coming out of the United States that catch on world-wide than any other country. Just about every major appliance can trace back to the US somehow (TV, computers, radios, etc. etc.)

I think this whole "problem" with education is played up. The real problem with education is that it's not needed to make a decent living anymore. In fact, most jobs that yield good entry level money and are stable, easy-to-find work don't require much of an education at all. Doctors and lawyers make good money, to be sure, but only if they are good, and it's a highly competitive environment.

[heidzo63]

Re: School systems in America.

Our idea of a "school system" and "learning" is completely backwards. What good is memorizing information if all you're going to do with it is regurgitate it on a test? I've had teachers who've let us memorize formulas 2 seconds before the test, hand out the test with some scratch paper, let us write the formulas on the scratch paper, then just use that on the whole test. I know after memorization like that, I've forgotten it within a month. This is NOT learning, it's NOT knowledge- it's having bits of information and then just spitting them out at the teacher. What we really need to learn is application. We don't just need to know- we need to know why. Instead of memorizing kinematic equations on a test his freshman year, by brother just knew the postulates and derived the equations he needed on each test. My teacher never taught us the postulates of equations. We're just supposed to memorize them. Not only is memorization useless, grades are also arbitrary. If I asked a fellow high school classmate, "Why do you want to know ____?" nearly all of them would answer "So I can get a good grade on the test. " "Why do you want to do good on the test?" "So I can get a good grade in ____ class." "Why do you want to get a good grade?" "So I can graduate from high school." "Why do you want to graduate from high school?" "So I can get to college." "Why do you want to get to college?" "So I can get a job." "Why do you want to get a job?" "So I can get money and not be poor." Pretty much, we want to get good grades because we want to get rich. What are grades a measure of, anyways? It sure isn't a measure of knowledge or intelligence. Anybody could get good grades-it's a measure of meticulousness, perfectionism, and how many hours you spend each night doing busywork.
We really have a lot to improve in our schools.

[dsadsadsa]

Re: School systems in America.

There are still more inventions coming out of the United States that catch on world-wide than any other country. Just about every major appliance can trace back to the US somehow (TV, computers, radios, etc. etc.)

.look who produces to most TVs. Sony, and other over-seas companies. We may have invented those things back in the 50's, but the people over sees APPLYED it, and made it better.

And yeah, I hear what you said, heidzo, pretty much every 3rd period word for word.

[Laharl]

Re: School systems in America.

Taking in to account the massive outscourcing the United States does in order to make our stuff cheaper, it's not a surprise that we don't actually PRODUCE the stuff, no.

We just own everything that does.

[Fastfingers21]

Re: School systems in America.

Bush: The president has done a good job as far as education goes. American citizens are pretty dumb in general, they just show up to the polls so they see if they can get high of the "I voted touchscreen" sticker. Jeb Bush the governor of Florida (I live there) has done a very good job at changing the system for the better.

[Fastfingers21]

Re: School systems in America.

Too many Americans are too dumb to vote. Encouraging everyone to vote is dumb because only people who care enough to get off there ass and go vote should. Im sick of people who only make one political point ever, Bush is dumb.
NO BUSH IS NOT DUMB THERE WERE REASONS FOR GOING TO IRAQ I LOVE HIS TAX CUTS AND HE IS GOOD FOR EDUCATION.







WHO CARES IF THE VICE PRES HAD A NON-LETHAL FULLY FORGIVEN HUNTING ACCIDENT ???

[sherbtail]

Re: School systems in America.

Im not sure if that last post was being sarcastic or not...
but i hope it was...

anyway, Im a brit who lived in America for about four years, and I have to say I love the school system over here in England so much more than over there. Its probably just the way ive been brought up, but even though I only do three subjects in high school here (maths, biology and chemistry) there seems to be so much more variety to my average day than in american school which had the same 8 lessons every day! And school here just seems so much more relaxed somehow...

Also, your universities/colleges are so flooooping expensive!! whats with that...? although to be fair the price of uni here is doubling next year (the year i start, sucks to be me...)

Jorje Bush is just wrong... I dont know about stuff going on in america (taxes, education etc.) but with the war in Iraq, his support for Israel in the war against Lebanon this summer and the ongoing use of tortue in Guantanemo Bay, hes damaged the USAs international reputation SO much...

[RandomPscho]

Re: School systems in America.

Im not sure if that last post was being sarcastic or not...
but i hope it was...

No, he was being serious. Who cares? everyone has accidents. News exaggerated it out of proportion.

[Billydude]

Re: School systems in America.

I think U.S.A. should just create a machine that kids put on their heads everyday and it just crams information into their brain in a part of their brain where they wont forget. Although these would be expensive in the long run it would save more money. We wouldn't have to by supplies and schools and pay teachers. And Im honestly not joking. I think in the next 100 years or so we should have that.

[angel-d]

Re: School systems in America.

Don't worry; it isn't only the school system in America that is messed up.

In most Asian Countries: Memorization is the key. Numbers and facts are drilled into kids which they must regurgitate in order to get good grades. This is why they are good at math, which is basically a bunch of rules and formula that if you memorize you can do moth math problems.

In UK: You have to choose what you want to specialize in at the end of 8th grade. Then you take 5 or 7 GCSE's (depending on how much work you want to do) followed by 3 AS levels (in 11th grade) and 2 A levels (in 12th grade). Although there isn't as much emphasis on memorization, unless you go to a private school in UK you won't get much attention from teachers (over crowding in public school) and they don't care much due to under pay anyway. Basically public school in UK; you are on your own kids.

I'm not to sure about Europe and Australasia as I haven't seen the school systems there, but France puts quite a lot of emphasis on memorization from what I can tell from years of summer school there.

However there is hope. IB is the system used in most international schools and is (in my opinion) one of the best systems out there. The emphasis of IB is using your own mind and figuring out how and why things work instead of just memorizing what happens. For example in Economics, after learning the basic principals, student will go and find companies to analyze and then explain what principals they found there and how they work in the real world.
There is an IB syllabus for all ages from KG to 12th grade which all works in the same way. The best part about it however is when you get to your final years (11th and 12th grade) where instead of specializing, you have to continue taking a broad range of subjects, allowing you 2 extra years to decide what you want to specialize in when you get to college.

The classes you must take for IB 11th and 12th grade are (the examples used are the ones from my school, although there are hundreds of more specialized options):
A1 language- your primary language, normally English.
B1 language- something else, such as French, Spanish or Japanese.
Science- Biology, Chemistry or Physics.
Social science - Economics, History, Geography.
Math - Lower level, Standard level or Higher level.
Free option - (normally used for arts subjects) Drama, Art, Music
TOK - Theory of Knowledge

On top of these classes, if a student wishes to receive a full diploma instead of just certificates in each individual subject they must complete 60 hours in each of these sections:
Creativity- such as performing in a school play.
Action- Playing on a school team.
Service- Community service- either helping in the wider community or within the school.

Finally a 10,000 research piece must be written on a subject of the student’s choice. This can be anything and simply introduces you to writing long papers. I did mine on a comparison between 2 dances, the Balinese Kechak and the Mauri Hakka.

I might be slightly bias as IB is the system my school used, however I think it is one of the best out there as you are taught to think and are able to explore a lot of different subjects all the way through.

If you are interested, this is the site for the IB organization.
http://www.ibo.org/
More specifically for the Diploma program (11th and 12th grade)
http://www.ibo.org/diploma/

[sherbtail]

Re: School systems in America.

i dno, i read in the times the other day that IB wasnt looked well upon by most schools because it only favours the really academic people, but then everyone who ive heard from doing IB really likes it. Yeah im lucky I go to a private school and was well lucky in my public private school so I have a slightly skewed opinion on the British education system.

Apparently over here, Cambridge is teaming up with loads of academics and developing an A level type system of their own which sounds promising.

[angel-d]

Re: School systems in America.

Hmm thats wierd, I always thought IB catered to people of all standards. Especially as you have the option to take each class seperately as a certificate (meaning you can do as many or as few as you like and still get some sort of qualification) or as the diploma (with the additional core requirements of TOK, CAS and extended essay).
As far as I am aware Universities and Colleges have higher entry requirements of IB students than people on other systems because they are, as yet, not as familliar with the system and so unable to correctly judge what the requirements should be. For example, if a course requires 2B for A levels, the IB requirement would be the equivillant of around 1A 1B A levels.

But I guess it is possible if they were talking about the diploma program itself without considering the certificate option. The diploma is a challenging program due to the number of subjects you need to take as well as the extra requirements.

[The_Q]

Re: School systems in America.

I honestly believe that the best way to improve the schools is to privatize the lot of them. America would never let that happen, sadly enough.

I'll go for the alternative, anyway. School vouchers, a system by which competition between schools is enforced without actually forcing parents to (directly) pay. This system allows the parent to choose exactly where they would like their child to go to school and then have the government pay for the whole thing. The possibility of choice would force the schools to do their best in order to gain more students, to compete or go broke. It would provide for better-paid teachers and give students only the best teachers as the others would have been ousted from the market (or moved to areas with lower demand curves).

Q

[slipstrike0159]

Re: School systems in America.

Grades have nothing to do with our intelligence level, all they depend on is our ability to jump through the hoop our teacher places. After you go through that hoop, you virtually dont need to worry about it ever again so you dont care why you did it or even how you did it.
You have to admit, our public school system is a LOT better than it used to be. I bet if you go ask your parents or grandparents they will tell you that they werent learning things like calculus until they were far in college. They also have things called AP (Advanced Placement) classes in my high school. All they are is to get prepared for college, you get college credit at the end of the year if you pass the college board test. Its not just facts either, a lot of it has to do with application - essays, critical thinking, how one event lead to another and basic human nature (at least in history). Another thing, our AP classes here have DOUBLE the students the regular classes have. The teachers are the best ive seen and its not like "take this home, take the test, dont worry about it anymore". They teach you concepts and then you read the books for the reasons the concepts became the way they did and then you write essays elaborating and arguing what happened and why it happened. All of it depends on the test at the end of the year and if you dont understand and take part in active learning the whole time, then you wont do well and it will have all been worthless
If you are talking about the people being too dumb to know what they are voting for, then what are you going to do, give them a test? If you do that, then you will hardly get any voters and thats exactly what the government doesnt need.