Manti's Game Repair Station

**iggymatrixcounter** · 10-7-2009, 07:38 PM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

Still waiting on you to look at my game XD. I'll most likely change it again since it's too complex to be a twg.

But expect an awesome FF7 style game from me at some point.

**Afrobean** · 10-7-2009, 10:04 PM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

Originally posted by iggymatrixcounter

Still waiting on you to look at my game XD. I'll most likely change it again since it's too complex to be a twg.

But expect an awesome FF7 style game from me at some point.

You mean an RPG with turn-based fighting?

Yeah, that sounds really far off the TWG spectrum.

**Viccica** · 10-8-2009, 09:31 AM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

FF7 sounds like a blast to me.. :3

I have a mystery game I'd like looked over, but it's on the school computer and I'm suspended at present so... =/

EDIT: Also, for your citique and tearing apart:

Originally posted by Viccica

Topsy Turvy

One day the TWG gang decides to go to the Carnival. Everything starts to go wrong in the random.org house of fun...

16 players

4 wolves

Ringleader- He's at the head of his little gang. Not big or brawny, but clearly the brains of the operation. Is always seered green. Sends in the wolf pm for the night.
Clown - It's like 'It' all over again. He's a psychotic mass-murderer who came to the carnival as a cover. Under that painted-on crimson smile lay the tales of a psychopath. Can choose to kill yourself and one other person at any point in the game.
Crystal Ball Psychic - Be careful coming near this guy. He's dangerous and a little crazy. Can seer one person per night phase.
Mime - No one likes mimes. They're just annoying copycats. He can only talk behind the scenes where no one can see, and can choose to copy one player's role at the cost of his vote the following day. If he targets the seer, he can choose his seering target the following night.

The House of Mirrors Carnie- Once she's got you in her maze of mirrors, she can darn near see into your soul. She'll know your color as it appears on the surface, but cannot tell if it's a lie or not.
Friendly Psychic - A kindly old Jamaican woman trying to scrounge by from night to night as a carnie. Is given the number of wolves left in the game at the beginning of every day phase.
The Bearded Lady - She's big. She's buff. She's hairy. She's not someone you want to mess with. Cannot be killed at night.
The Juggling Man- He never wanted to be a juggler for the carnival, but they didn't like him throwing his balls around an operating table much. At the cost of any activity in the thread including his vote for the day he may choose three targets to return to their true seer color.

The Fat Stubby Carnie - Is given three items at the start of the game which he cannot use. This carnie is generally a self-serving jerk trying to con you out of your money, so be careful of what his motives may be behind it all.

Food Stand Man - Is given 3 items at the beginning of the game which he cannot use. Depicted as a friendly old man, but be careful. He raised the fat stubbie carnie who gave you your ticket when you came in. He's bound to be a trickster.

6 normal humans
Note: At the beginning of the game, every person who is a non-wolf will be given a number from 1-4. This will represent the color they will be when they are seered. Wolves and blues are not aware of the colors they have recieved, normal humans, however, are told their own color.
1- Red
2- Blue
3- Purple
4- Green

Items:
The Fat Stubby Carnie:
Entrance Ticket - No one questions who the Fat Stubby Carnie lets into his fair. Gives you a one-time guard you can use at any point in the game. Effective against a lynch.
Stuffed Animal Prize - It's cute, cuddly and.. what? It's got fleas! You lose your night activity while you scrub yourself raw all night.
Kissing booth stub - When you redeem your kiss from the foxy young woman manning the booth, you feel untouchable and on top of the world. You get a one-time vigi. Don't wait too long to redeem your kiss, the next woman in line is called 'Large Marge' for a reason.
Carnie's whip - Can only be recieved if The Fat Stubby Carnie dies. In rejoice of his death, you decide to remodel. Can be used once to completely take the role of another person and switch it with your own.

The Food Stand Man:
Candy Apple - You will feel hyper and exhuberant after eating this apple. It makes your vote for the next day phase count for double.
Cotton Candy - This carnival has made you feel like a kid again. You've gotten in touch with your inner self and reverted back to the color you should be.
Rat on a stick - If you are given this, you've been severely, severely pranked. Your seer color changes to red automatically and you have no choice in the matter.
Black licorice - Oh, come on! No one likes black licorice. You lose your night activity due to excessive vomitting.

**Brilliant Dynamite Neon** · 10-8-2009, 09:55 AM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

I have a dilemma with my game. I don't want to leave out my game from reviews, because you might find something others have missed, but it is a large game and I don't want to exclude yet another potential player from playing it.

**DarkManticoreX2** · 10-8-2009, 02:06 PM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

Viccica: Topsy Turvey

Vic, This is how your game will break down:

Human Strategy Especially if the Clown's Vigi isn't real time. Most likely Day 1 the bearded lady will come out and start a four person alliance with the rest of the blues. Generally, the Neutrals will join this group, since they want to stay free of the lynch. This will lead to a six person alliance on day 1. It's too big of an alliance because the chance of hitting a wolf by blind luck at lynch time is something like 44% on day 1.

The mime will be easy to find, because people will watch for people that aren't posting, and humans will post to avoid being pinned as the mime.

The Clown is underpowered. Having to sacrifice himself to kill the the bearded lady is basically his only function.

I originally thought that the Crystal ball Psychic and House of mirrors Carnie were kinda useless. However, if they both compile a list at the beginning of the game of who claims what, and then compare their seering results to that list they can easily find liars without the juggling man fixing them.

Wolf Strategy The only wolf strategy i can see working is for the clown to claim to be some blue then blowing himself up on The Bearded Lady just before he's about to be lynched, hopefully sending the lynch on another human and killing the WB, then wolving the juggling guy during the night.

In general the wolves are too easy to find, and the game is human biased.

Recommendations

You need to spice up the wolves a bit. Their current functions are slightly too weak to compete with the alliance. The house of mirrors Carney can still function even though you messed with the colors. If you ask any of the wolves what they seer and then seer them, their going to have to be damn lucky to guess right, while the humans know their colors.

Suggestions
- Give the wolf seer real seering results unless the seering is being affected by an item.
- Maybe let a couple of the wolves know what they seer
- ??Give the clown a one time use vigi instead of a suicide kill?? - if not, definatley make the clown's suicide a real time event.
- The purples give their items away? are they one time use? If they are, they're fine.

**iggymatrixcounter** · 10-8-2009, 03:23 PM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

@manti: I think you read the jugglin man's power wrong. He does not seer people, he just makes 3 player's return to their true seer result. (B/c humans can be seered blue, green, red, OR purple)

On a side point, it's better to "balance games by taking roles out than adding another role. For instance, if you're going to break your seer's powers, with tainted results, why not just get rid of a seer? Then you don't need a MW, jugglin guy, etc. No sense in having a role if it's power is not accurate/effective.

**DarkManticoreX2** · 10-8-2009, 03:58 PM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

Originally posted by iggymatrixcounter

@manti: I think you read the jugglin man's power wrong. He does not seer people, he just makes 3 player's return to their true seer result. (B/c humans can be seered blue, green, red, OR purple)

Oh ok that makes a lot more sense.

@ BDN, I'd like to play in your mystery game when it does get hosted. Send it to me only if you really think it needs to be debugged.

**Ruritsu** · 10-9-2009, 06:05 AM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

Manti, if you will.

TWG LXXXVI: Lone wolf...

13 Players

The Lone Wolf - If he is lynched the humans win.

The Pack's Defender - The lone wolf cannot be lynched until he is killed.

Sly Wolf - May switch roles with the lone wolf durring the night.

Seer/Vigi - Can act as a seer, or vigi somebody durring the night, however, the vigi will cost their power. Send either a "Seer Player X" or "Vigi Player X" to prevent confusion.

Dead Eye - If this player is the first person to vote for somebody during a lynching phase and that person is lynched, their lynching will not be stopped by other effects.

7 Humans

1 Unlucky Human - If this person is the last to vote on a person that would be lynched, the lynch fails. Is unaware of this detriment.

I had planned to remove the vigi on the seer and replace it with a choice of Seering/psychicing, but I didn't type it.

Also, great idea manti, a workshop for game design sounds pretty cool.

**devonin** · 10-9-2009, 09:45 AM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

@Ruritsu:

1) If the lone wolf is lynched the humans win...what if they get vigi'd? Or are you standing by the intention there to replace seer/vigi with seer/psych?

2) If the humans try to lynch the lonewolf while the defender is still alive, do they just get told "You tried to lynch this person but it didn't work"? Thus telling them "This is a wolf"? Once the lone wolf is outed but not killed, with no vigi power in the game, it becomes the job of the sly wolf to out themselves, by basically racing the dead eye on the next day phase to post against the lone wolf first.

If the dead eye wins, the game is automatically over, Otherwise, a lynch on the lone wolf fails because the defender is alive, and then the dead eye gets wolved the following night, having outed themselves in their haste to post first.

**iggymatrixcounter** · 10-9-2009, 10:58 AM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

@ruritsu: come on, if you're going to post a game, make it your final draft and don't have a bunch of details you said you WANTED to put in. Put some pride into your game XD.

@manti: you know, if you posted my guidelines for a strong game setup, it would filter out a lot of little details that are common problems for most games..... you know, THESE guidelines:

Originally posted by iggymatrixcounter

And fix your games before you post them, these should be FINAL drafts of your games, not an idea that popped into your head and still needs fixing.

An ideal game skeleton has the following factors: 1) An even number of players 2) No iron clad alliances to destroy activity 3) Enough game strategy to get people talking but not so much that people do not want to learn it's mechanics. (HINT: How you type up your idea will have an effect on how people think it'll play out. Make sure you're concise, not overly wordy, and explain every aspect well. Spelling and grammar never hurt anyone either XD) 4) Enough players to meet the demand of ACTIVE twg players. (I.E. do not run a 20 man game when only 12-14 players are actually active) 5) Above everything else, is fair to both wolves and humans (and third parties if applicable)

Build your game around these guidelines and I think you will have better game quality, thus leading to better players.

**DarkManticoreX2** · 10-9-2009, 11:29 AM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

Originally posted by iggymatrixcounter

@ruritsu: come on, if you're going to post a game, make it your final draft and don't have a bunch of details you said you WANTED to put in. Put some pride into your game XD.

Thats the point of the thread Iggy, to get games that might not be quite complete into their final draft shape.

Ruritsu: Lone Wolf...

First of all I'd like to say your game is actually fairly even assuming the lone wolf doesn't get pegged right away.

Anyways, game break down:

Human StrategyNight 1, the seer will hit either a wolf or a human. If it's a human, the human comes out and starts the alliance (no MW so no worries about green seerings). The human will attract dead eye, and the alliance will form. From there, the seer is going to have to just thin the pool with some human help. Dead eye is going to have to law low untill they find a red.

Wolf Strategy The quicker the wolves kill the seer the better their chances. That said, they'll probably kill the frontman of the alliance each night to keep the allied pool small unless they think they really have a good bead on dead eye or the seer.

A secondary thing is that if the sly wolf's switch is permanent for an entire phase, the wolves could fake out the humans by making the sly wolf look like the lone wolf, and then switching back the next day to find dead eye when he votes to "kill" the lone wolf.

In general the I find the game to be fairly well balanced, but my opinion could change depending on how certain roles work with each other (See below)

Recommendations

I think your game is good, just consider the following role interactions.

1. What happens if dead eye is the first person to vote a player, and the unlucky human is the last? Does one player's role override the other?
2. Is the sly wolf's role switch a permanent thing? Say the lone wolf get's vigi'd during the night, but the sly wolf switches roles with him. Does the sly wolf then continue on as the lone wolf? or is it just for the one night and the game is over?
3. If the sly wolf's ability is permanent until they switch back, I think you can keep the vigi seer. The wolves need to be on their toes to avoid the vigi, but it's certainly avoidable.

@ devo, I'm pretty sure the game is a human win reguardless of how the Lone wolf dies, just as long as he dies.

**FictionJunction** · 10-9-2009, 11:55 AM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

I think this thread fits manti's ego's agenda, but I'll bite.

The game I suggested last host sign-ups.

Iggy had an interesting strategy laid out. It works. The seer is able to get a 5 mason-like group right off of day one by asking everyone to stay in the rooms they spawned in and signing a death warrant by coming out day one. While the seer is most likely to die if he goes through with it, the 5 person alliance is a very tough seal to break. However, iggy refuses to acknowledge that a wolf could indeed lie through his teeth and claim to be blue - I mean, he may as well do it. The seer is limited to seering players in his own square and the wolf crowd controller could just move him about all he wants. Chances of any of them getting seered in time to have a confirmed alliance are none, and chances that the seer would divulge this information to ANY of the people who come out to him are slim, I think. I mean, in a normal game you don't divulge information to people until they're confirmed blues anyway.

Iggy asked me to level the playing field.

I was thinking of making movement mandatory (at the cost of being moved randomly) because it protects the blues and the wolves but you might have a better idea. Keeping a 4 square map throughout the entire game without any global penalties for abandoned squares could prove useful, too, especially at the later stages of the game.

**Ruritsu** · 10-9-2009, 12:08 PM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

To answer you questions:

1: The dead eyes reads "Will not be stopped by other effects", and what I meant was it takes priority over all else. Will make it clearer somehow.

2 & 3: The sly wolves effect is "Switch roles" with the other. Its effect does not end at the end of a phase or anything, it remains until the new sly wolf ("Switch" does mean switch.) activates it again. Further, its activated at night and takes effect right before the begining of the following day phase.

Devo: Yeah, it should read "if he dies humans win." I hadn't thought of that.

Game is below with minor revisions for clairty.

TWG LXXXVI: Lone wolf...

13 Players

The Lone Wolf - If he dies the humans win.

The Pack's Defender - The lone wolf cannot be killed until he is killed.

Sly Wolf - May switch roles with the lone wolf durring the night. This effect isn't temporary

Seer/Vigi - Can act as a seer, or vigi somebody durring the night, however, the vigi will cost their power. Send either a "Seer Player X" or "Vigi Player X" to prevent confusion.

Dead Eye - If this player is the first person to vote for somebody during a lynching phase and that person is lynched, their lynching will not be stopped by any other effects.

7 Humans

1 Unlucky Human - If this person is the last to vote on a person that would be lynched, the lynch fails. Is unaware of this detriment.

2) If the humans try to lynch the lonewolf while the defender is still alive, do they just get told "You tried to lynch this person but it didn't work"? Thus telling them "This is a wolf"? Once the lone wolf is outed but not killed, with no vigi power in the game, it becomes the job of the sly wolf to out themselves, by basically racing the dead eye on the next day phase to post against the lone wolf first.

Missed this question at first devonin: Um, yeah, basically I'll just update with "Its now night" which in effect outs him as the lone wolf. However, there'll be no race to the lynch by the sly wolf, they'll just switch roles. At any rate, I don't think things like this are that bad of a problem.

**Spyke_MH** · 10-9-2009, 09:09 PM

Re: Manti's Game Repair Station

I'd like to note that the lynch not going through does NOT completely give away the lone wolf, there still is the possibility that the unlucky human was well...unlucky...and cast the last lynch vote on someone who isn't the lone wolf.

Manti's Game Repair Station

Manti's Game Repair Station

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment