The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

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  • stavie33
    FFR Player
    • Aug 2006
    • 1925

    #1

    The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

    After reading BMAH's BRILLIANT idea on JX's thread about setting up specific parts to grade a song by, and average the difficulty off of all the consistent parts, I decided to do exactly what he said. This is a complementary thread for establishing the difficulties of songs to be posted in JX's thread, I'll just get started, here's how it works:

    I'll have a lot of sections listed below for what songs can be rated upon. It will have 5 sections, and x subsections in each of those. The sections will be Patterns, Speed, Stamina, Density, and Length (length and stamina differ, examples being Lolo and Rato). Patterns and Speed will have subcategories, which I will list later. Each song is scored out of 10 for each sub category/category (sub category scores are averaged out to get the category score). Then all 5 numbers will be averaged to determine the difficulty of the song.

    X < 1 = easiest
    1 = Very Easy
    1-2 = Easy
    2-3 = Standard
    3-4 = Tricky
    4-5 = Difficult
    5-6 = Very Difficult
    6-7 = Challenging
    7-8 = Very Challenging
    8-9 = FMO
    9-10 = FGO
    10+ = 13

    Categories (what's in parenthesis is what should be examined for grading)

    Patterns:
    - Roll Walls (alternating or consistent)
    - bursts/burst stream (24th's or 32nd's)
    - jumpstream (Speed/density of jumps)
    - stream (Basic patterns or complex)
    - jacks (length, speed, jumps included/alternating, i.e. planetz)
    - trills (Speed, length, one handed)
    - Runningmen (Length, 2 or 3 notes alternating)

    Speed (In reference to 16th conversions, i.e. a 32nd 90 BPM song would not go under 90 BPM, but under 180 BPM, so that songs like Monstrous Turtles won't be misjudged):

    80-100 BPM = 1
    100-110 BPM = 2
    120-130 BPM = 3
    130-140 BPM = 4
    140-150 BPM = 5
    150-160 = 6
    160-170 = 6.5
    170-180 = 7
    180-190 = 7.5
    190-210 = 8
    210-230 = 9
    230+ = 10

    Density: (out of 10, looking at how close amounts of arrows are, i.e. the 12th jump areas in Balloon Fever or the part of Death Piano before the 32nd Trill, also overall closeness of arrows)

    Stamina: (out of 10, how far into the song do your hands start hurting and you start losing accuracy? This is different for different people, probably the hardest to grade overall)

    Length:

    :01 - :30 = 4
    :30 - 1:00 = 5
    1:00 - 2:00= 6
    2:00 - 3:00 = 7
    3:00 - 4:00 = 8
    4:00 - 5:00 = 9
    5:00+ = 10

    That's it, and as an example I'll be examining Keep in Mind, the latest controversial difficulty song next post
    Last edited by stavie33; 03-22-2009, 05:19 PM.
    It's getting better all the time
    I used to get mad at my school (No, I can't complain)
    The teachers who taught me weren't cool (No, I can't complain)
    You're holding me down (Oh Oh)
    Turning me round (Oh Oh)
    Filling me up with your rules (Oooh)
  • Patashu
    FFR Simfile Author
    FFR Simfile Author
    • Apr 2006
    • 8609

    #2
    Re: The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

    if you can develop an objective system that doesn't give absurd results then gj

    standing by..
    Patashu makes Chiptunes in Famitracker:
    http://soundcloud.com/patashu/8bit-progressive-metal-fading-world
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Mechadragon/smallpackbanner.png
    Best non-AAAs: ERx8 v2 (14-1-0-4), Hajnal (3-0-0-0), RunnyMorning (8-0-0-4), Xeno-Flow (1-0-0-3), Blue Rose (35-2-0-20), Ketsarku (14-0-0-0), Silence (1-0-0-0), Lolo (14-1-0-1)
    http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee301/xiaoven/solorulzsig.png

    Comment

    • stavie33
      FFR Player
      • Aug 2006
      • 1925

      #3
      Re: The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

      Keep in Mind:

      Patterns:

      Roll Walls: N/A
      Bursts/Burst stream: 10 (24th bursts and 32nd gallops are hard, 24th trills and stream with 32nds)
      Jumpstream: 8 (though not dense, it's still has a lot of jumps and is difficult for newbies to read)
      Stream: 8 (Easy enough to read but has jumps so has same score as jumpstream)
      Jacks: N/A
      Trills: 8 (hard 24th trills)
      Runningmen: N/A

      Total: 8.5

      Speed : approx. 170 BPM = 7

      Density: 8.5 (Certain parts of this song are really, really dense, but most isn't, also, I use Eclipse as a reference, it having a density of 12 at the 32nd stream)

      Stamina: 7 (doesn't hurt hands, but you can screw up if you get weak on the fast bursts/trills/gallops)

      Length: 7


      TOTAL: 7.6

      Mid VC

      EDIT:

      Alright, here's a major problem, it's definitely not Mid VC, it should be Low FMO, so my scales are messed up

      The Problem results from Time and Stamina being 2 things that are only relevant to certain songs, so I think those two should have a different scale. Because Patterns worked out fine (Low FMO), Density worked out fine (VC/FMO) and Speed worked out fine (VC), so what happened must have been length and stamina, b/c those don't really apply to this song

      EDIT: Still lost with this one, I'm having trouble judging it, someone needs to help me
      Last edited by stavie33; 03-22-2009, 05:27 PM.
      It's getting better all the time
      I used to get mad at my school (No, I can't complain)
      The teachers who taught me weren't cool (No, I can't complain)
      You're holding me down (Oh Oh)
      Turning me round (Oh Oh)
      Filling me up with your rules (Oooh)

      Comment

      • stavie33
        FFR Player
        • Aug 2006
        • 1925

        #4
        Re: The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

        I'll do VB and see how that works out, cause' that's a great use for this system, let's see, if it works out it should be around 8.3 (which is low FMO, which I still think by all terms is VB is, but it is one of those that just won't be)

        Patterns:

        Roll Walls: N/A
        Stream: 8.5
        Jumpstream: N/A
        Burst/Burst stream: N/A
        Trills: 8.5 (bad one handers, bad!)
        Runningmen: N/A
        Jacks: 7 (4 framers are technically jacks)

        Total: 8

        Length: 8

        Stamina: 8.5 (requires quite some stamina)

        Speed: 8

        Density: 8.5 (The long streams are quite dense)


        TOTAL: 8.2 (Lowest FMO)

        Wow, works perfectly for VB! I'm sure that's what other people would view it as
        It's getting better all the time
        I used to get mad at my school (No, I can't complain)
        The teachers who taught me weren't cool (No, I can't complain)
        You're holding me down (Oh Oh)
        Turning me round (Oh Oh)
        Filling me up with your rules (Oooh)

        Comment

        • Oni-Paranoia
          No fucks
          • Dec 2006
          • 2440

          #5
          Re: The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

          Lots of flaws..

          EDIT: VB is straight up stream, try it on something like FN, KM, Nove mundo, Aim Anthem.

          Comment

          • [TeRa]
            FFR Player
            • May 2007
            • 9922

            #6
            Re: The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

            There's no difficulty rating that can be given to a song that's correct, difficulty ratings are opinions.
            Last edited by [TeRa]; 03-22-2009, 05:33 PM.

            Comment

            • stavie33
              FFR Player
              • Aug 2006
              • 1925

              #7
              Re: The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

              Originally posted by [TeRa]
              There's no difficulty rating that can be given to a song that's correct; difficulty ratings are opinions.
              That's True, I think I should just scratch this and have the thread deleted, however I'll try FN anyways:

              Patterns:

              Rolls Walls: 9 (definitely for the jumps followed by 64th's, I'll leave those in this category)
              Bursts/Burst stream: 10
              Jumpstream: 8 (there is some jumpstream, but it's really easy compared to every other mechanic in the song)
              Stream: 8.5 (For the stream it has, it's dense and annoying, though short)
              Jacks: 9 (4 framers all over)
              Trills: N/A
              Runningmen: 8 (there are only 2, but they're fast)

              Total: 8.75

              Length: 7

              Speed: 9

              Density: 9.5 (really dense at some parts)

              Stamina: 9 (this gets tiring when going for a AAA, trust me)

              TOTAL: 8.65

              Averages suck apparently b/c the system doesn't work. FN has Patterns (FMO), Speed (FGO), Density (FGO), Stamina (FGO), and Length (C) and that averages out to FMO. Damnit Length!!

              Unless someone can help me, destroy this thread
              It's getting better all the time
              I used to get mad at my school (No, I can't complain)
              The teachers who taught me weren't cool (No, I can't complain)
              You're holding me down (Oh Oh)
              Turning me round (Oh Oh)
              Filling me up with your rules (Oooh)

              Comment

              • ZC_Wolfy
                FFR Veteran
                • Dec 2008
                • 384

                #8
                Re: The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

                Ok, I have 2 Requests: For FFR (my worst VC), and RATO (not that I'm not sure about it's placement, I just wanna see what a 13 looks like.
                also:
                Bursts/Burst stream: 10 (24th bursts and 32nd gallops are hard, 24th trills and stream with 32nds)
                you don't seriously think the bursts in keep in mind/those combined patterns are borderline 13 patterns...
                Last edited by ZC_Wolfy; 03-22-2009, 06:44 PM.


                "BURN IN HELL, MOTHER ****ER!!! I am not retarded, okay. Oh, and one more thing. Even if we do plant twice as many trees as we cut down, which we don't, let me remind you, that TREES TAKE YEARS TO GROW, NOT DAY
                S!!!" -
                SaguchiTheCat

                "*Twinklesky* makes me want to skip through a forest while playing a pan flute. And then all the little forest creatures will start dancing behind me." - Quigly

                "I would link you to these great video demonstrations of good vibrating but I think I would get banned for it. D=" - Quigly

                ZC's Birthday tournament - Signups are open and donations are greatly needed D:

                Comment

                • x After Dawn x
                  FFR Veteran
                  • Jul 2007
                  • 1613

                  #9
                  Re: The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

                  ...Delete this thread.
                  Originally posted by Djr Rap dancer
                  Alcohol make peoples retard.
                  Drink for forget you are retard and this bring you more retard.
                  Just take nicotine patch lol

                  Comment

                  • championanwar
                    Ask Nuro! x3
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    FFR Music Producer
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 2588

                    #10
                    Re: The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

                    Fishin' for a stickeh.

                    Originally posted by aperson
                    all of 65dos are dumb an noticable because their idea of 7/8 is 4/4 with one beat cut off the end
                    aperson: yo shikari if u c thom yorke
                    aperson: plz tell him 2 start usin consonants again
                    Click Here

                    Comment

                    • Garquillex
                      FFR Veteran
                      • Oct 2005
                      • 965

                      #11
                      Re: The Official FFR difficulties scale thread (Not like JX's, read it!)

                      Don't trash it just yet. I spend a lot of timing thinking about things like this. I've even spent the last 8 months creating a mathematical tier list based entirely on matchup ratios. I might be able to save this.

                      The problem here is that you haven't given accurate weight to anything. You just gave everything a maximum amount of points. Therein the problem lies. You're also ignoring things that need to be factored in. For example:

                      Roll Walls: N/A
                      Bursts/Burst stream: 10 (24th bursts and 32nd gallops are hard, 24th trills and stream with 32nds)
                      Jumpstream: 8 (though not dense, it's still has a lot of jumps and is difficult for newbies to read)
                      Stream: 8 (Easy enough to read but has jumps so has same score as jumpstream)
                      Jacks: N/A
                      Trills: 8 (hard 24th trills)
                      Runningmen: N/A

                      You only added the 4 values and divided by 4. You need to count the 3 0's too. Each category also needs to be weighted for difficulty. Hypothetically, lets say a song gets a 10 in both Roll Walls and Jumpstream. Does that mean both are of the very same difficulty? They need to in order to make sense. Each pattern needs a more specific rating system.

                      Now when we move onto the Speed, Density, Stamina, and Length, the problem is slightly different. You're essentially rating the same things twice, but with more weight. The scores that you give to the patterns should be dictated by these 4 variables. Working these in separately skews the results with redundant values.

                      So instead of the current calculation method, I propose that it needs to be based solely on the patterns. For this to work, the rating system of each pattern needs to be broken up into subcategories that act as "proof" for the overall pattern rating.

                      There is one problem I think there may be with this, but I can't see it clearly yet. I should be able to rule out or determine what it means to the calculations once we move forward.

                      Comment

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