Federal Income Tax

Re: Federal Income Tax

$750 BILLION LOLOL

But seriously, what a stupid idea. Take the debt from businesses and give it to the National Treasury. Like that's going to keep the Stock Market from going under. They already gave $85 billion to AIG, and that's just one corporation. I'm glad that I'll be in Canada in less than 2 years.

That is 1/4 of what they make in a year anyway, seriously. Good bye social economy! It was good knowing you!<3

Re: Federal Income Tax


Video link.
Not commenting as i know nothing of American taxes

Re: Federal Income Tax

People who claim that they aren't legally obliged to pay their taxes are usually in prison for tax evasion. Seems if nothing else, the -courts- feel that you are legally obliged to pay your taxes.

Re: Federal Income Tax

As true as that may be, you cant necessarily prove that they had enough grounds to base their judgments off of. As it describes in this video, many times people are sentenced without given the reason, or law they broke, that proved that they deserved the punishment they got. I hate to use such a petty example, but if you have ever seen a show called "Raising the Bar" it describes how a lesser court judge's ruling goes unchecked and is based off of the personal opinion of the judge themselves. Now thats not to say that i throw into question our entire country's judicial system, but it does happen where a judge uses their personal opinion about taxes in accordance with the law instead of hard evidence. So is it so outlandish to think that the defendants in question are punished when the judge and the jury are willing taxpayers who undeniably believe that it is a legal obligation when in fact they havent themselves been lead to believe otherwise?

Re: Federal Income Tax

I thought about that movie as soon as I read the title. It has some great information. Unfortunately, however, it doesn't matter if there's no law for income tax. Fight the system and you'll face the unjust consequences.

Re: Federal Income Tax

From Wikipedia:

"In 2006, Russo wrote, produced, directed, and starred in a documentary feature film entitled America: From Freedom To Fascism. The film questioned the legality of the income tax and attacked the "growing authoritarianism" in American life. The film was made after Russo had over $2 million of tax liens filed against him by the Internal Revenue Service, the state of California, and the state of New York for unpaid taxes. In an interview with the New York Times, however, Russo refused to discuss the liens, saying they were not relevant to his film."

"In early 2007, an interview with the radio talk show host Alex Jones saw Russo discuss his friendship and conversations with a Nicholas Rockefeller, whom he said was a member of the famous Rockefeller banking dynasty. In it he describes how Nicholas Rockefeller had revealed to him 11 months previous to the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001, that "an event" would happen that would lead to an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and would lead to the unwinnable "War on Terror". Russo also said that Rockefeller was part of a ruling elite whose end goal, as stated by Rockefeller himself, is "to create a one world government, where everybody has an RFID chip implanted in them"."

Great. So we've got a guy claiming 9/11 was an inside job who owes money on taxes claiming that taxes are illegal. Seems legit enough to me.

Re: Federal Income Tax

"Ad Hominem Attacks- An ad hominem attack is when you direct your argument against the person, rather than their own argument. Example: Why should we listen to you, you're an idiot! (If they're unintelligent, you should be perfectly able to show your disagreement by attacking the point, not the speaker)" - http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...ad.php?t=65553

If you are having difficulty discussing these topics on these forums then maybe its because you fail to meet certain realizations about what you are saying, as shown above.
You cant accurately disprove something because you believe the person presenting it is not a person to be trusted.
Aside from it all, it is very much true that if you try to avoid paying the federal income tax because you think its illegal you will still go to jail nonetheless. All im proposing is this movie presents valid food for thought. Im not saying we should all band together and collectively not pay the income tax, but its exactly what the movie presents: Is it right for all of these things to be happening? And in correspondence with that, are these ideas showing that America IS indeed moving from freedom to fascism through its dealings, such as this proposed illegal tax?

Re: Federal Income Tax

I would propose, therefore, that this shows that it is unlawful to not pay your taxes, and therefore conversely that it is lawful to pay your taxes.

I'm pretty sure that "Well, gee I -think- that's against the law, I suppose I'll have to put you in jail then" isn't exactly a common line of reasoning taken by judges.

Re: Federal Income Tax

Oh no, quite in the least. Many valid points have been brought up in a variety of court cases on the subject. Yet most to all have been shot down. The most compiled list can be found here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_pro...onal_arguments

Re: Federal Income Tax

By the 16th Amendment, the income tax is by definition constitutional. I'm not sure why you're implying that the courts are somehow iffy on income taxes; it's right on the Constitution that the federal government is allowed to tax income. And the government does tax income, and I'm not sure what the fuss is.

Now arguing that it's a bad idea to tax income is a different story for another day.

Re: Federal Income Tax

Taxes are used to protect and educate the people; that should be reason enough to pay them. If we didn't have laws making it mandatory to pay taxes, I doubt many will and without that money, the country will suffer. Even if we don't think the money is being used correctly, we have the power to change that.

~Tsugomaru

Re: Federal Income Tax

But will we use that power to change it if we believe our money IS being correctly used? Of course not. As the title indicates i am specifically referring to the Federal Income Tax by itself, not taxes in general. It shows in this video that the money used in education and things like highways come from other (mostly state) taxes whereas the money collected from the federal income tax is more or less gone before a penny is used towards the things we think it is being used for. It goes along with the entire background of the subject, are we going to change something that we believe is doing good? No of course not. But what happens when we find out that its not doing the good we intended it to?

Re: Federal Income Tax

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "not doing the good you intended it to". What were you expecting to have paid for/covered/whatever that's not getting done?

Re: Federal Income Tax

well if you think your government isn't putting the money in the right place, guess how many people voted for that government. You also have to take what aaron russo said as a grain of sand.


If there is injustice that people are being put behind bars for a tax that legally isn't mandatory, is it because people are too lazy to do something about it? Or are they simply not informed? This is if the law is actually non existent. Perhaps if enough people were aware of this information, there would be further investigation. I don't see why any American citizen would let people get thrown in jail for something that's "legally" no threat to justice.


It's like canada. GST (general sales tax) was supposed to be a temporary thing for World War II. Guess what? We still have it over 60 years later. I'll bet you anything people didn't do anything about because they're not informed.