Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

I think you're drawing the precisely backwards conclusion from this than perhaps you ought to.

In Ontario we have publically funded catholic schools too. Taking religion courses is (basically) mandatory, there's in-school mass etc etc. This in no way segregates catholics from the rest of Canada. Non-catholics can go there, catholics can go elsewhere.

If they are going to make a school in Toronto that emphasizes black history, black cultural and religious traditions, and -ONLY- black people are allowed to attend, and they -AREN'T- allowed to attend elsewhere, then you can claim segregation problems.

If non-blacks can go there, and blacks can go elsewhere, then all they've done is see a sizable cultural community facing an educational crisis and tried to find a way to help amiolerate the issue.

I would have no problem with areas that have a large jewish population getting a government funded jewish school, ditto muslims, hindus or any other religious group. I'd be just as okay with the same being done for areas with non-white racial majorities.

Ontario being willing to give guarenteed publically funded education to everyone regardless of race, colour, creed etc is a great thing. That they are also willing to do so in a way that respects those races, colours and creeds as well seems like a good thing to me, not a bad thing.

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

I guess segregate isn't the correct word but the schools would enhance the current racial gap. I can agree with your point on Catholic schools and in my opinion they shouldn't really exist. Religion should take place in the homes, not the schools but I can understand an optional religion class. This is what I think they should do with the black school as well. Why don't they just make Black History classes?

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

Well here's the thing. If it is the case that a large number of black students in the Toronto area are dropping out, and it is the case that making a school geared towards but not exclusive to blacks would make more of them stay in school, is the possible later consequence of increased seperation of races so terrible that we shouldn't try to get these kids back in school and educated?

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

Instead of looking at this from a racial standpoint why don't they look at it as kids are dropping out and they need to have interesting programs at school to make them go. I doubt a drop out cares about history so why should the attraction factor be black history? If black students are going to go there it's not going to be because of their education but to be with their own race IMO. Why not make a school or a program in school to assist drop outs and spark a love for learning rather than just aim it at black people?

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

If your problem is that people refuse to eat oranges, you can either provide apples or try to find some way to convince them that oranges are what they want.

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

Whether they say it's aimed at black people or not.....It's still aimed at black people.

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

People need to understand that things can have to do with race without being racist. The defining quality of racist thought is that the seperating out of one race from another is done because it is felt that one is better or worse than the other. This is a problem a lot of people have with gender issues too. Equal doesn't mean Identical, and you can address the ways in which things are different without including a value judgement that ones differences make them superior.

Opening up a school in a chinese neighbourhood with chinese teachers and classes taught in mandarin isn't racist. Pointing out that a majority of highschool dropouts in Toronto are black isn't racist. Concluding therefore that blacks are stupid? Racist. If they were opening up some remedial school and forcing black dropouts to attend it on the reasoning that they dropped out because they weren't smart enough to deal with normal highschool, then yes this would be a very racist program, and frankly it would never in a million years have come to pass.

It seems to me that all they are doing is saying "Such a large number of blacks are dropping out compared to other groups that we can only conclude that something about the way this system is working isn't working for them, perhaps if we change the system to bring it more into line with what they are looking for, they will be more inclined to stay in school and graduate."

Still not seeing a) racism b) segregation or c) a bad idea in any of this.

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

I would think that the bad idea comes from those that misconstrue the standpoint. Using the people in this thread who call wolf without really thinking as an example, I would say this is where the harm comes in.

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

I'm not sure if we should avoid useful and beneficial legislation simply because some people might misconstrue the intention of it. If they want to question it, they can do so, and get probably the same explanation I've given here. If that still doesn't change their mind, then bully for them, but I think viewing this as a bad thing is misunderstanding both the concept and the intent of the concept.

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

Well, yeah. But what happens when you put a bag over a dog's head for its own benefit? It may not understand what is going on, but it'll freak out. Might even bite you. I'm not saying that this will result in violence, but I am saying that both black and white people may not understand the principal behind the idea in the least and lash out.

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

I know this is all done with good intentions but why associate it with a race. Why not just drop outs of all races? If it just so happened there were more white than black drop outs so they made a school to focus on white history and other white only matters, I would bet everybody and especially the black community would be outraged.

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

Don't bunch racism against the majority in with what's going on here though. Whites just happen to have the more recent major connection with racism, slavery and what have you (Make no mistakes, black africans had east indian slaves well before white europeans showed up but that's neither here nor there)

"Visible Minorities" seem to have a genetic compulsion to resist anything that is for the people who historically oppressed them, even when that minority is not actually a minority of a given population. You could have a district with 5000 white students and 40000 black students, and if a school were made aimed towards blacks, blacks would be prone to get upset claiming segregation, and if a school were made aimed towards whites, blacks would be prone to get upset claiming racism, even though whites are in that case the numerical minority.

It's one of the lasting effects of racist policy, that even when the policy changes, it is held against you for (in many cases) far too long. At my university, there was an "African Students Union" as a ratified university club. Going by the name and charter, I couldn't actually determine that the club -did- anything, and one time they had booked a meeting room directly before we were using the same room, it looked as though they were just hanging out and talking.

And yet, you're correct in that if someone tried to form the "Anglo-saxon student union" they would probably get a -lot- of trouble from minority groups in the area. We've often joked at the poor reception a white man's pride parade would get, but it does speak to a much larger issue.

As regards this particular case, I'm going to quote you from a National Post article on the subject:

And given that both Ms Wilson and Ms Harrow are black, it certainly seems that advocates in the black community are in favour of the idea.

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

This is even more pointless than Catholic schools.

Honestly. A few black students who drop out say they wouldn't have if they had a black-geared school? Better bust out several million tax dollars building schools and hiring teachers to teach the exact same subjects and maybe black history just to satiate these idiots' parents. Besides black history, they aren't even learning anything different than people who go to public schools. Isn't learning the entire point of going to school? Thinking that the dropouts would have done differently with a school like this is laughable.

This is just people brandishing their minority swords and whining for something worthless just because they know that the government will say yes. The government needs to learn when to say, "Just because you're a minority doesn't mean we're going to give you things don't need."

Re: Racial Segregation has begun in Canada

There was a perfectly valid and important reason for the catholic district school boards in ontario when they were created. I agree (Despite going through the catholic system myself) that there isn't much of a need for them now, but it isn't quite the same thing.