Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

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  • coberst
    FFR Player
    • May 2004
    • 256

    #1

    Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

    Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

    “What will come of my whole life…Is there any meaning in my life that the inevitable death awaiting me does not destroy?”—Tolstoy

    Meaning is number ONE. What wo/man fears most is extinction, which includes insignificance.

    Wo/man wants assurance that their life has somehow counted; if not for her or his self then at least within the overall scheme of things. If there is some kind of “judgment day” then I want to be in ‘that number’ that matter. While alive I want to know that “I am somebody”.

    Religion is our primary means for responding to that basic need to be somebody. Otto Rand says that all religions spring up “not so much from…fear of natural death as of final destruction.”

    “It is culture itself that embodies the transcendence of death in some form or other, whether it appears as purely religious or not…culture itself is sacred, since it is the “religion” that assures in some way the perpetuation of its members.”

    Our dichotomy of sacred and secular aspects of social life is an egregious error. There is no such thing as a distinction between sacred and secular in the symbolic affairs of sapiens. Sacred is that which transcends the natural world while secular is that which is of the natural world. In the world of symbolic affairs such distinctions do not hold.

    “As soon as you have symbols you have artificial self-transcendence via culture. Everything cultural is fabricated and given meaning by the mind, a meaning that is not given by physical nature. Culture is in this sense “supernatural” and all systemizations of culture have in the end the same goal: to raise men above nature, to assure him that in some ways their lives count in the universe more than merely physical things count.”

    Self-transcendence, i.e. transcending nature via culture, does not provide a simple means to deny the primacy of death; the terror of death still lurks beneath the veneer. We have shifted the fear of death onto a new level of anxiety; we must “now hold for dear life onto the self-transcending meanings of the society in which we live…a new kind of instability and anxiety are created.”

    In our attempt to deny evil, i.e. death, we bring a new and grotesque form of evil. “It is man’s ingenuity, rather than his animal nature, that has given his fellow creatures such a bitter fate.” Wo/man has, through ingenuity, heaped great evil on the world; far greater than could ever be created by our animal nature.

    Quotes from “Escape from Evil”—Becker
  • FoJaR
    The Worst
    • Nov 2005
    • 2816

    #2
    Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

    what's your point?

    Comment

    • Kiro51
      FFR Player
      • Oct 2006
      • 214

      #3
      Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

      He keep posting his thread on every forum he knows... and that 95% of people don't understand...


      I understood ~~50% of your post. Use an easier vocabulary/sentence syntax if you want everyone to understand you.
      Last edited by Kiro51; 02-28-2007, 02:11 PM.
      O

      Comment

      • FoJaR
        The Worst
        • Nov 2005
        • 2816

        #4
        Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

        no i understand it... it's existential bull****.

        Comment

        • RandomPscho
          FFR Player
          • Jun 2006
          • 504

          #5
          Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

          Coberst could you please explain why death is evil?
          I tend to see it as necessary, and for the most part, good.

          Also meaning is not number one, it is for some people, not all.

          Comment

          • Kilroy_x
            Little Chief Hare
            • Mar 2005
            • 783

            #6
            Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

            Originally posted by FoJaR
            no i understand it... it's existential bull****.
            Not especially.


            Coberst...

            Why not make one thread for all discussion about becker? You seem to be posting each new idea of his in a linear fashion as if you take breaks from reading his books just to do so.
            Last edited by Kilroy_x; 02-28-2007, 02:19 PM. Reason: pluralizing

            Comment

            • FoJaR
              The Worst
              • Nov 2005
              • 2816

              #7
              Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

              Originally posted by Kilroy_x
              Not especially.
              sure it is.

              Comment

              • tsugomaru
                FFR Player
                • Aug 2004
                • 3962

                #8
                Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

                He's trying to argue that we are afraid of dying without accomplishing anything. I know I am.

                ~Tsugomaru
                Originally posted by Hiluluk
                WHEN do you think people die...?
                When their heart is pierced by a bullet from a pistol...? No.
                When they succumb to an incurable disease...? No.
                When they drink soup made with a poisonous mushroom...? NO!!!
                IT'S WHEN A PERSON IS FORGOTTEN...!!!

                Comment

                • RandomPscho
                  FFR Player
                  • Jun 2006
                  • 504

                  #9
                  Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

                  No, he is assuming everyone is afraid to die and the fear/evil that comes from it.

                  Theres a long thread about the scared of death topic already.

                  Comment

                  • Reach
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    • Jun 2003
                    • 7471

                    #10
                    Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

                    I would say...

                    He's arguing more specifically than what some of you have said, that the seperation of religion and non religion is a bad idea. Religion as manifested into something that tries to make humans above nature brings an evil out of humans that is dangerous to our existance. Humans like to feel their existance in some supernatural sort of sense, has a universal meaning that will not be destroyed when you die. However, trying to transcend the natural power of death to become something that is ethereal brings unnatural evil to the world through segregation and misunderstanding of the natural world right around you.

                    As meaning is a human derivative, meaning is not inherent, but is created by the observer. Thus, the idea that a human can transcend to a level of universal meaning, to me, seems to think too highly of our race.

                    The parallels with organized religion here are pretty obvious xD


                    Coberst's posts are difficult to read primarily because he never finishes his post. He basically sticks ideas together with quotes and doesn't make any definite conclusions. He sometimes hints at them, so usually you can interpret it, but in every which way to sunday.

                    Aside from my interpretation here, there are at least 2 other ways to read this from what I can see. And undoubtfully more from other points of view.


                    coberst,

                    Put more of your posts into one thread, please. Most of your posts deal with similar topics that could all be posted in one thread.
                    Last edited by Reach; 02-28-2007, 07:14 PM.

                    Comment

                    • slipstrike0159
                      FFR Player
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 568

                      #11
                      Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

                      The only reason i think coberst posts this kind of thing in here is because it is an interesting read and it is more likely that we are going to appreciate it more than anyone else in other various places on these forums. Regardless, these forums are more geared towards active debate and it is hard to do that if there is no opinionated response to said writings and as such it is difficult to respond in any fashion other than "interesting read."

                      Coberst's threads would be much more interactive if he would simply respond to it or ask some kind of question related to the literature presented.

                      Comment

                      • FoJaR
                        The Worst
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 2816

                        #12
                        Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

                        Originally posted by Reach
                        He basically sticks ideas together with quotes and doesn't make any definite conclusions. He sometimes hints at them, so usually you can interpret it, but in every which way to sunday.

                        Aside from my interpretation here, there are at least 2 other ways to read this from what I can see. And undoubtfully more from other points of view.
                        which is why i asked him what his point was.

                        Comment

                        • coberst
                          FFR Player
                          • May 2004
                          • 256

                          #13
                          Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

                          Originally posted by RandomPscho
                          Coberst could you please explain why death is evil?
                          I tend to see it as necessary, and for the most part, good.

                          Also meaning is not number one, it is for some people, not all.
                          Death is the ultimate evil because nothing more fearsome can happen to anyone than to have their life ended. An example might be how hard the prisoners in concentration camps tried to stay alive.

                          Comment

                          • coberst
                            FFR Player
                            • May 2004
                            • 256

                            #14
                            Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

                            I write about important ideas that I think most readers are unfamaliar with. I hope that the reader will become curious about the idea and go to the books and gather the knowledge that will permit them to make a judgment about the matter in question.

                            The discussion forum is a great place to become conscious of ideas but is a lousy place to acquire knowledge. To become knowledgable one needs to go to the books. I suggest that every adult acquire a "Friends of the Library" card from a local college library so that they will have access to the kind of books needed if one is to become an enlightened citizen.

                            Comment

                            • FoJaR
                              The Worst
                              • Nov 2005
                              • 2816

                              #15
                              Re: Sapiens Fear Extinction with Insignificance

                              lol death is scary.

                              Comment

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