Organic acid, water solubility

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  • Renevatia
    FFR Veteran
    • Feb 2006
    • 555

    #1

    Organic acid, water solubility

    The rules of organic acids and organic solubility seems so sketchy compared to analytical chemistry.

    CH3CH2NHCH3 vs Butanol vs H2C=CHCH2CH3 vs H2C=CHNHCH3

    Why is the first one not the most acidic?

    CH3CH2 N CH3 with a negative charge on N seems the most stable Hydrogen to give out of all the compound. Double bonds are more likely to try to take Hydrogen instead of give. Can't find any answers online or in the book that justifies this to be wrong.

    Butanol vs CH3CH2OCH3 vs CH3CH2CH2OH vs OHCH2CH2OH
    Solubility in H2O

    First and last is out of the question
    My choice was 3 and it was wrong. Both Oxygen are bonded to two atoms, should the oxygen at the end generate a bigger dipole for the molecule?

    Is there any website or book that can give me an absolute list of rules for solubility in water and acidity and their weighing of importance against each other? My Ochem book seem to just give me this cookbook answer that sounds like something out of a creative writing class.
    Reminder for self to make new sig.
  • j-rodd123
    End of the road
    • Oct 2006
    • 3692

    #2
    Re: Organic acid, water solubility

    wouldn't butanol be most acidic? acidity is determined based on the stability of the conjugate base, so the more stable the conjugate base (meaning weak base) would result in a stronger acid. butanol generates an alkoxide ion and it is a primary alcohol which would have a relatively low pKa (oxygen is more electronegative than nitrogen obv).

    Originally posted by FictionJunction
    wow

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    • igotrhythm
      Fractals!
      • Sep 2004
      • 6535

      #3
      Re: Organic acid, water solubility

      For your first question, recall what a Lewis acid is: a proton donor in water. Since butanol is the only molecule with a hydroxyl group in the list, it's the most likely to donate a proton. The others are either straight hydrocarbons or amines, which have more of an issue with letting go of their hydrogen: N-H bonds are less polar than O-H.

      As for the second question: You have two hydroxyls on opposite carbons with the fourth molecule (1,2-ethylenediol), which means that the molecule as a whole is nonpolar. Propanol and butanol both have hydrocarbon chains opposite the hydroxyl group that don't like being in water, and the ether has two free electron pairs off of the oxygen lending itself to a partial dipole of the molecule. Since you've told us that the answer is not propanol, and butanol with its longer chain is probably less soluble, we're between the ether and the diol. The ether molecule is polar and the diol is nonpolar, so the answer is methyl ethyl ether (the second one).
      Originally posted by thesunfan
      I literally spent 10 minutes in the library looking for the TWG forum on Smogon and couldn't find it what the fuck is this witchcraft IGR

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      • Renevatia
        FFR Veteran
        • Feb 2006
        • 555

        #4
        Re: Organic acid, water solubility

        my bad, instead of butanol its just butane for both questions
        Reminder for self to make new sig.

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        • Renevatia
          FFR Veteran
          • Feb 2006
          • 555

          #5
          Re: Organic acid, water solubility

          I looked up propanol and apparently propanol's hydrocarbon chain is not big enough to offset the electronegativity of the OH group, making this molecule fairly miscible in water. Longer carbon chain alcohols, 5C+ are not miscible for this reason.
          I just don't understand why Propanol<methyl ethyl ether in water solubility. It should be close but is this simply suppose to be memorized?

          My explanation for acidity was that N is more electronegative than C, Double bonds are proton receivers.
          Last edited by Renevatia; 10-2-2012, 03:23 PM.
          Reminder for self to make new sig.

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          • igotrhythm
            Fractals!
            • Sep 2004
            • 6535

            #6
            Re: Organic acid, water solubility

            Okay, when you put butane in place of butanol, that's a tougher call. In this case, I suggest you see your professor during office hours to sort this out. Teachers are humans, too--they do make typos on their tests or enter the wrong answer into the key.
            Originally posted by thesunfan
            I literally spent 10 minutes in the library looking for the TWG forum on Smogon and couldn't find it what the fuck is this witchcraft IGR

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            • popsicle_3000
              Legendary Noob
              FFR Simfile Author
              • Sep 2005
              • 4641

              #7
              Re: Organic acid, water solubility

              Originally posted by igotrhythm
              The ether molecule is polar and the diol is nonpolar, so the answer is methyl ethyl ether (the second one).
              except that polarity isn't the only thing. plus ethers are barely polar...
              the diol is by far more soluble in water, because of its ability to hydrogen bond.

              Originally posted by One Winged Angel
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              Originally posted by One Winged Angel
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              Originally posted by Xiz
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