The VideoGame MegaPack 4 (SUBMISSIONS CLOSED)!

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  • Gundam-Dude
    `~`
    FFR Simfile Author
    • Oct 2005
    • 7327

    #256
    Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

    Originally posted by rCaliberGX
    how are the difficulty scales being worked out? nps+fudge factor, ancient DCP/xoon scale? should we bother putting a difficulty number in if they're going to be adjusted anyway?
    Originally posted by DigitalS3r4ph
    In terms of difficulty, how easy or how hard, I wouldn't put so much worry into that. Based on my reviews so far, I would say that a ridiculously hard chart can stand perfectly fine on its own as long as it is fun. If it is only hard, to the point to where it is stepped intentionally for the sake of being extremely difficult to pass, then I would like the file to have easier versions of the charts to allow for a wider appeal. Let peeps enjoy the journey with the song from easier to extreme.

    I think you misunderstood his question about difficulty scale ratings. What will be the "formula" to figure out what arbitrary number should define how hard each chart is? Regardless of what method you guys choose, there is always going to be an entire subjective factor to the numbers which does leave a margin for error and fuck ups.

    With the examples listed, the chancellor scale runs between ratings 1 through 10, with the latter being the absolute hardest. The chancellor scale is a really stupid way to rate because it's impossible to rate files with multiple difficulties in a manner that seems acceptable, so I wouldn't recommend this one at all. Also, beginners or people new to this game will be scratching their heads because there would be an absolute massive difficulty gap between each level, which is a real downside to difficulties being limited to being whole numbers.

    The old school "keyboard scale" used in the previous VGMPs and other packs is quite frankly just as awful of a scale because you're essentially slapping a bullshit number to a file with no reason other than simply, "it feels like a #" from playing it once or a couple times. And using DDR/ITG difficulty scale as a basis to this formula doesn't apply well to keyboard files in the case that spread charts are typically way more densely layered and have too many contributing factors that can immediately increase the difficulty of a chart via pattern usage (jacks, jump/hand/hold-stream, trills, etc.), colour note gimmicks, bpm gimmicks, mines, holds, etc.

    Notes Per Second scale, isn't that great of scale to use either because there is always a margin for subjective error when deciding on how much to "fudge" (add or subtract from the raw calculated NPS of a chart) when applicable. For example, a very short song of < 1 minute will typically always yield a fairly high raw calculated NPS whereas at the opposite end of the spectrum, long songs yield fairly low numbers, which is where "fudging" comes into play. But I guess this scale is acceptable in the way that it produces objective numbers from calculating raw note density in a file, which gives you something to work with when deciding on an arbitrary number to slap onto a chart, and it's flexible enough to work with multiple difficulties.

    NPS formula is as follows:
    Code:
    total tap notes in song / [(time of last note - time of first note) + 0.875 (1/8th note)] = raw NPS (0-0.499 is rounded down, 0.5-0.999 is rounded up)
    
    1/8th note is added to balance out extremely short songs. If a song is ended on a hold, the time used is the start of the hold.


    And there's some really complicated formula that Stargroup devised that supposedly works better from an objective standpoint, but it's a really time consuming calculation involving a fuckton of numbers. And I'm pretty sure absolutely no one uses this formula other than him, rofl.

    But yeah, enough ranting about this subject—whatever method used to calculate the difficulty of charts is completely up to you guys, lol. Just wanted to I guess clarify on what rCaliber was aiming at.
    Last edited by Gundam-Dude; 03-31-2014, 09:50 PM.


    (Download My Magnum Opus, Solo Kpop Pack!)

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    • Dynam0
      The Dominator
      • Sep 2005
      • 8987

      #257
      Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

      My two cents: Make the difficulty range from 10-15 feet (and 16 for the boss file(s) in the pack). Glove did this with ODI3 and it works fine since it gives a GENERAL idea of difficulty based on a relative scale among files in the pack. No need to split hairs and go with a bigger interval since nobody would ever completely agree on a rating at that point anyways.

      Just play the damn files and if they feel like "X" difficulty, then rate accordingly; you'd want multiple people to play the files and agree on a rating. Nothing complicated about that and it's the closest approximation we have. As GD said, difficulty is highly subjective and going into a formula to calculate it is counter-productive imo

      Also it's Stepmania and no one makes much of a fuss over difficulty since it's so far from standardized between packs it's hilarious

      Comment

      • macgravel
        Resident Poopbutt
        FFR Simfile Author
        • May 2004
        • 2405

        #258
        Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

        I'm going to rate every chart's difficulty on every file a 1.

        Comment

        • Wayward Vagabond
          Confirmed Heartbreaker
          FFR Simfile Author
          • Jul 2012
          • 5866

          #259
          Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

          1-5 based on how good the file is

          1 being good and 5 being good

          Comment

          • ilikexd
            FFR Simfile Author
            • Apr 2006
            • 3209

            #260
            Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

            Use ffrs rating scale 1-100

            Comment

            • lurker
              ur worst nitemare
              FFR Simfile Author
              • Jan 2003
              • 1628

              #261
              Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

              no one will ever stop people from playing quasar on spread and saying "i can pass 12s"
              some feathery f**k

              Comment

              • TheSilentLord
                FFR Player
                • Jun 2012
                • 110

                #262
                Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

                Originally posted by rCaliberGX
                do visual novels count as 'video games'?
                Originally posted by macgravel
                Yes, they do!
                Originally posted by macgravel
                Answer (YTY's SimFails): No H-Game music allowed u dormis.

                This is a bit contradictionary, because a few notable exceptions aside, almost all Visual Novels have a H-element into them. For example, the game i took my songs from has 30+ hours of gameplay and only a few ero scenes. I think it should have been a bit more clear what kind of sources are allowed, especially after you stated visual novels count as games for the purposes of this pack.

                Well, it's not like i'll lose my night's sleep over this, though.

                Comment

                • DigitalS3r4ph
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 984

                  #263
                  Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

                  When you said Visual novel, I was thinking of games like Dear Esther by the Chinese Room or something. H - games have never been allowed in any of the VGMPs.

                  PM me if you find the secret.

                  Comment

                  • blindreper1179
                    Vice President Of TGB
                    • Jun 2006
                    • 5901

                    #264
                    Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

                    And for that, I thank you.
                    Originally posted by thesunfan
                    absolutely I want to vomit on your face irl
                    Originally posted by choof
                    It was like trying to throw logic at a fuckin brick wall lmao
                    Originally posted by choof
                    whats more dense, a black hole or an icyworld file
                    Originally posted by Celirra
                    I've never been so disappointed by a man from Alabama than I am right now

                    Comment

                    • TheSilentLord
                      FFR Player
                      • Jun 2012
                      • 110

                      #265
                      Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

                      DigitalS3r4ph: all clear, i wasn't quite sure what you meant at first.

                      Originally posted by blindreper1179
                      And for that, I thank you.
                      I accept the rule but this kind of prejudice is just retarded. Regardless of the source, it's just what it is: music. If I didn't tell you the music was from a visual novel soundtrack, you would think it was just another song and pay no closer attention.

                      A good song is a good song, whatever it's source might be.

                      Comment

                      • choof
                        Banned
                        FFR Simfile Author
                        • Nov 2013
                        • 8563

                        #266
                        Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

                        Originally posted by Gundam-Dude
                        And there's some really complicated formula that Stargroup devised that supposedly works better from an objective standpoint, but it's a really time consuming calculation involving a fuckton of numbers. And I'm pretty sure absolutely no one uses this formula other than him, rofl.
                        if someone sends me the formula for this I could write a script/program for it

                        Comment

                        • Arntonach
                          Owlbears Rock!
                          • Mar 2012
                          • 2494

                          #267
                          Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

                          I don't think he told anyone what it was, cause I can't find it on kbo.
                          pack of hard stuffs

                          pack of my stuffs

                          Comment

                          • DigitalS3r4ph
                            FFR Simfile Author
                            FFR Simfile Author
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 984

                            #268
                            Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

                            I'm pretty sure we are just going to go through and classify the difficulties of the file using our own Stepmania Illuminati methodologies, and not some algorithm, during the post production process of the pack once we have all the accepted files and graphics together.
                            Probably rank between 10 and 16, and use 9s only for peasi mode files like mimiga town.

                            PM me if you find the secret.

                            Comment

                            • choof
                              Banned
                              FFR Simfile Author
                              • Nov 2013
                              • 8563

                              #269
                              Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

                              i'd be more in favor of nps+fudgefactor(tm)

                              Comment

                              • James May
                                FFR Player
                                • Oct 2012
                                • 3817

                                #270
                                Re: The VideoGame MegaPack 4!

                                Originally posted by choof
                                i'd be more in favor of nps+fudgefactor(tm)
                                this.
                                bananas


                                Comment

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