6th Official FFR Tournament - Is over, Congrats to all our winners!

**psychoangel691** · 11-18-2011, 03:14 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Originally posted by Ryusei_

Looking at some of the people in D4 (again, because this is largely the division I have really looked at) comparing some of their levelranks to others in D4, the competition there is still lacking. The top end being people that have a good number of 10's AAA'd and the lower end being people that have maybe a few and typically not impressive scores on 11's+

That seems like a pretty big disparity to me. I don't really wanna stay on this subject because I've seen people get booted from tournaments for less than this, but I did want to voice my concern over it. Mostly because it seems like you're not open to any amount of discussion on the matter. This being the first tournament in a while, I feel like discussion is warranted. As it stands though, it's more like "it's my tournament. I'm right, you're wrong. The end."

If I'm alone in this, I'll happily stfu, drop it and go back to whoring my given song. But I don't feel like I am =/

You do realize that EVERY division has this right? Did you also take the time to compare those people from D4 with those in D3, especially the lower D3 players? They'd be absolutely destroyed by these people. The people in D3 pretty much consist of heavy gets with a few 10's SDGd maybe one or two AAAd if they're the lower level 10s. There is NO possible way to have it even with 6 divisions. If any division actually has any right to complain it's D6 because their skill difference is drastic, but unfortunately it's the nature of these tournaments.

Edit: Oh and as per the "it's my tournament I'm right you're wrong" comment, did I not move you down when you pmed me about your placement? People had the chance to come to me and find out why they were where they were, and if they could be moved they were.

**wildfireskunk** · 11-18-2011, 03:19 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

People are always going to be unhappy with division-based tournaments, because a lot of people won't be clearly in 1 division. Much in the way that there is such an uproar over a lot of the ratings regarding songs (let's look at D4s song in this very tournament), there were probably a ton of people who were looked at, and it wasn't really clear where they'd sit. "Put them in D4? Well, their stats suggest that if put in D3, they'd perform incredibly well against everyone and probably win. But then again, here in D4 they're barely sitting above the average mark." I'm sure there were situations like that a LOT, and all you can do is make a judgement call. You'll get some people who will struggle to get past the first couple of rounds, and some people who will dominate and be the favourites, but you can't blame the organisers of the tournament for placing them 'incorrectly' when this will ALWAYS be the case due to the extremely varied skill levels of the entrants. You'd probably need about 50 divisions if you wanted everyone to put into the 'correct' one, and even then you'd have people who looked better.

**popsicle_3000** · 11-18-2011, 03:22 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

at least it is the minority that are complaining. what have there been, 10, 15 people that have posted about divisions? that means that there are 550-560 people ok with their division

EDIT: can i just add, LAG!!! AAAAAAAARG

**Hakulyte** · 11-18-2011, 03:23 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Just need to re-invent FFR and make it so we have a system that gauge perfectly how good someone is so this tournament suddenly have perfect groups. ..or deal with the fact that current stats are not the greatest measure to figure out exactly where someone should be. The more people there is in a tournament, the more likely it is that the percentage of slightly misplaced people goes up. Can you blame hosts? Not unless you come up with an amazing system doing their job better than them. Oh, look there's no threads about placement systems anywhere on forums. How strange.. better make one and use all this misplaced constructive criticism into something amazing and have a tea party once this drama is over. Oh wait, I'm also part of the drama and complains.. *slap self* but yeah, how would you guys do this?

**jprox445** · 11-18-2011, 03:24 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Originally posted by popsicle_3000

at least it is the minority that are complaining. what have there been, 10, 15 people that have posted about divisions? that means that there are 550-560 people ok with their division

EDIT: can i just add, LAG!!! AAAAAAAARG

This makes me looks even worse :C sorry....

**Ryusei_** · 11-18-2011, 03:25 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Originally posted by psychoangel691

You do realize that EVERY division has this right? Did you also take the time to compare those people from D4 with those in D3, especially the lower D3 players? They'd be absolutely destroyed by these people. The people in D3 pretty much consist of heavy gets with a few 10's SDGd maybe one or two AAAd if they're the lower level 10s. There is NO possible way to have it even with 6 divisions. If any division actually has any right to complain it's D6 because their skill difference is drastic, but unfortunately it's the nature of these tournaments.

Not once did I say D4 was alone in this, only that it was the best one I can directly pull statistics off the top of my head because it's my division and I've actually looked up people in it.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that something that would have made this go a little better is dropping the bottom portion of each division DOWN a division, thus eliminating that scenario you just pointed out. and boosting up the general skill level of each division . (Example: If say, bottom 5 in D4 drop down to D3, and D3 drops it's bottom 5 to D2 etc...No, those aren't exact numbers and would have to be worked on as a case-by-case basis, but the logic is there.)

What you THINK a person is capable of when their scores don't really back it up is kind of a moot point. There are people in each division that very honestly have no chance of winning (or even top 8ing in most cases) and THAT more than anything seems to defeat the purpose entirely.

**jprox445** · 11-18-2011, 03:27 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Originally posted by Ryusei_

Not once did I say D4 was alone in this, only that it was the best one I can directly pull statistics off the top of my head because it's my division and I've actually looked up people in it.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that something that would have made this go a little better is dropping the bottom portion of each division DOWN a division, thus eliminating that scenario you just pointed out. and boosting up the general skill level of each division . (Example: If say, bottom 5 in D4 drop down to D3, and D3 drops it's bottom 5 to D2 etc...No, those aren't exact numbers and would have to be worked on as a case-by-case basis, but the logic is there.)

What you THINK a person is capable of when their scores don't really back it up is kind of a moot point. There are people in each division that very honestly have no chance of winning (or even top 8ing in most cases) and THAT more than anything seems to defeat the purpose entirely.

It could work, but then again.. some people havnt even begone to get their scores in certain divisions.. look at D6 and some D4... they got a lot of people don't even have a score up yet..

**psychoangel691** · 11-18-2011, 03:28 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Originally posted by wildfireskunk

People are always going to be unhappy with division-based tournaments, because a lot of people won't be clearly in 1 division. Much in the way that there is such an uproar over a lot of the ratings regarding songs (let's look at D4s song in this very tournament), there were probably a ton of people who were looked at, and it wasn't really clear where they'd sit. "Put them in D4? Well, their stats suggest that if put in D3, they'd perform incredibly well against everyone and probably win. But then again, here in D4 they're barely sitting above the average mark." I'm sure there were situations like that a LOT, and all you can do is make a judgement call. You'll get some people who will struggle to get past the first couple of rounds, and some people who will dominate and be the favourites, but you can't blame the organisers of the tournament for placing them 'incorrectly' when this will ALWAYS be the case due to the extremely varied skill levels of the entrants. You'd probably need about 50 divisions if you wanted everyone to put into the 'correct' one, and even then you'd have people who looked better.

The D4 song it's self was very on the border to us anyway. It kinda went like this

AJ: This song looks like a 9
Me: I dunno I think it might be a 10.
AJ: Some stuff about stuff that he usually explains lol
Me: But these jack things seem pretty tough and those little 32nd things.
AJ: The bpm blah blah blah etc etc
Me: Hmm looking at it some more I think it probably is a 9, it's comparable to things like "rambles off various 9s"

The problem with this particular song, I think, comes down to pattern bias, some people have an easier time with the stuff in this chart then others. Regardless of the rating though I wanted a border file to kick D4 off, actually wanted to try to be border in most of the divisions to prevent AAA fests.

And it's the truth, it's impossible to have people placed perfectly because there's too many people at different levels. There's always going to be the underdogs in a division but with a week to whore the song you'd be surprised what you can do. I was the underdog a few times and I just played like hell and hey maybe I didn't always get a prize but I usually walked away with a good skill increase which was good enough for me. Now I'm on the lower end of this division when it comes to the 11's and 12s, I'm going to try like hell to pull myself up to par with these guys. And if I don't well there's always next time.

**popsicle_3000** · 11-18-2011, 03:28 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Originally posted by jprox445

This makes me looks even worse :C sorry....

lol, NP, not pointing anyone out, just to show perspective :P

**Ryusei_** · 11-18-2011, 03:28 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Originally posted by jprox445

It could work, but then again.. some people havnt even begone to get their scores in certain divisions.. look at D6 and some D4... they got a lot of people don't even have a score up yet..

You haven't posted anything constructive about this yet other than post count +1.

**jprox445** · 11-18-2011, 03:31 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Originally posted by Ryusei_

You haven't posted anything constructive about this yet other than post count +1.

if you think i'm just a post whore i'll stop then :C

jeez....

**popsicle_3000** · 11-18-2011, 03:34 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Originally posted by psychoangel691

The D4 song it's self was very on the border to us anyway. It kinda went like this

AJ: This song looks like a 9
Me: I dunno I think it might be a 10.
AJ: Some stuff about stuff that he usually explains lol
Me: But these jack things seem pretty tough and those little 32nd things.
AJ: The bpm blah blah blah etc etc
Me: Hmm looking at it some more I think it probably is a 9, it's comparable to things like "rambles off various 9s"

BAHAHA, this made my day

**psychoangel691** · 11-18-2011, 03:41 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Originally posted by Ryusei_

Not once did I say D4 was alone in this, only that it was the best one I can directly pull statistics off the top of my head because it's my division and I've actually looked up people in it.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that something that would have made this go a little better is dropping the bottom portion of each division DOWN a division, thus eliminating that scenario you just pointed out. and boosting up the general skill level of each division . (Example: If say, bottom 5 in D4 drop down to D3, and D3 drops it's bottom 5 to D2 etc...No, those aren't exact numbers and would have to be worked on as a case-by-case basis, but the logic is there.)

What you THINK a person is capable of when their scores don't really back it up is kind of a moot point. There are people in each division that very honestly have no chance of winning (or even top 8ing in most cases) and THAT more than anything seems to defeat the purpose entirely.

So basically just end up with the same thing? All you do is put higher players down which pushes mid players of that division down to where the lower ones were. How does this solve anything? The fact of it is you can be a bottom player and come out on top.

Really the divisions that are taking it hardest are D1 and D6 when it comes to difference in skill. D1 has people that can't AAA anything up to people who can AAA a 6 altho we tried to keep the 6 AAA scarce and move most of those people to D2 if they had some other songs to work with in the D2 area. And then D6 where if you had a 12 AAA it was pretty much auto D6 with a few exceptions or if you had a majority of the 11s AAAd it got you in D6 where they're against people like Dossar.

**xXAll-ProXx** · 11-18-2011, 03:41 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

I understand that it is not possible to have everyone placed perfectly, that's just an illogical thing to expect from any tournament. However, I don't understand why breaking "traditions" is such a big deal. Tournaments are supposed to improve year by year, this is exactly why you revised the tournaments every year and added more divisions to make placements more fair. I know this is a big thing to ask and I'm not asking you to do it now. This is just a suggestion for the NEXT tournament that's going to hopefully happen next year. If we had 7 divisions, then all other true "D6'ers" like me, Stavie, Remedy, PlanB, Socon, Krunky, Hakulyte, etc.. would actually have a chance of winning in their division.

**Darkbreezee** · 11-18-2011, 03:41 PM

Re: 6th Official FFR Tournament - Round 1 has started!

Fall silently is kinda difficult , so pretty amazing job on that blackflag!

6th Official FFR Tournament - Is over, Congrats to all our winners!

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