Phoenix Rising :: FFR Batch Submission
Knerves - Phoenix Rising - Dan Johansen [4.75 / 10]
July/August 2021
PublicEvents
Rejected
https://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showpost.php?p=4273001&postcount=2
Blanket Permissions I believe.

This is my 1st attempt at a submission, so there's a good chance I'm doing something wrong, but hopefully everything is right.

Simfile Folder Name

Phoenix Rising (Knerves)

Note Count

2428

Chart Length

3:24

Average NPS

12.1158

Estimated Difficulty

85.44

First Note

0:03

Ending Note Delay

0:01

Hand Bias

x -44

Framers

0 - 0 1 - 0 2 - 3 3 - 18 4 - 257

Jumps

x 386

Hands

x 91

Quads

x 3

Color Jumps

x 14

Color Hands

x 1

Color Quads

x 0

Most notes in:

1/3 of a Second
10 - 30.00 nps 0.5 Seconds
12 - 24.00 nps 1 Second
20 - 20.00 nps 2 Seconds
36 - 18.00 nps 5 Seconds
77 - 15.40 nps 10 Seconds
147 - 14.70 nps 30 Seconds
421 - 14.03 nps 1 Minute
812 - 13.53 nps

Color Count

x 1012 (41.68%)
x 643 (26.48%)
x 4 (0.16%)
x 500 (20.59%)
x 2 (0.08%)
x 143 (5.89%)
x 4 (0.16%)
x 101 (4.16%)
x 19 (0.78%)

Largest Note Gaps

0.63s0.63s0.5s0.47s0.47s0.47s0.47s0.43s
35
28
21
14
7

Phoenix Rising (Knerves) [5/10]
>Permission good (Blanket)
>Sync good
>Metadata, Folder contents good

Don't get discouraged by the wall of nitpicks below. I think you've got a pretty solid starting foundation for this song, and my goal with this absurd amount of detail (that I am never doing again hhhhnnnggg) is to help guide you to building a better file. This song is pretty ambitious for a first file, but it looks like you've got a good sense of how you want the file to work but need some refining. Someone once gave me an absurd amount of detail on one of my files that really helped me when I was just starting out, so I suppose I'm just paying it forward :)

Consistency with layering (use of jumps/hands for multiple sounds) and overall organization are the major weaknesses of this file. I've broken down my notes in sections to best illustrate this idea. Roughly, each section is a musical phrase that the player should be able to expect similar patterns and represented ideas within, and similar sections should ideally follow similar elements. Timestamps are in ddream time format.

[Intro, 1.747-12.169]
Layering: In this section, the first hand is pretty justified, and the similar sound at 6.958 could be justified as a hand. (Though the second one can be ignored because it's already pretty busy there) All the other drum sounds you include should be jumps at most. The current use of hands here are (in my opinion) too much especially because the guitar is relatively complex.
What is followed (Recommended): Guitar directly, sweeps represented by a (24th, see below) roll pattern. Snare drum hits = jumps, snare + crash = hand. More drums added in as singles when they play 16ths.

1.747/3.169/6.958/8.221 - syncs fine as just 8ths, but if you want to emphasize this roll pattern (which I like and would recommend keeping), I think it would work better as 24ths. At this speed you won't notice much of a difference, it'll play better and land on the 8th the guitar does actually play.
4.432/5.695/9.484/10.747 - that guitar sound isn't here (it just holds), so remove these 32nds
4.590 - Remove this note too. You nailed the sync for this thing at 7.116 (they're all the same), so the next 16th you have here is 1 64th early. Suggest a trill pattern on the remaining arrows to the (reduced to) jump at 4.905, eg:

7.116 - same sound as 4.590, but keep the 4th here for the drums
9.642 - similar to 4.590, change the 24th at 9.905 to the 16th at 9.879
11.932 - missing drum note

[Bridge 1, 12.169-22.274]
Layering: Good as is, aside from 13.274 and its repeats in this section - recommend that those should be a jump too for consistency (bass drum hits)
This section is -really- done well!
13.747 - the detail this jump is for is super faint, might be better to leave it out. You can decide.
16.037/16.195/16.511/16.984/17.142, similar rhythm starting 21.011 - Note that there are guitar notes here, but we can ignore them for now.

["Verse" 1, 22.274-42.484] -> Just builds on the bridge 1
Layering: This section builds on the Bridge, and you reflect that somewhat well. Keep your layering as much as possible the same as the bridge. Watch hand use, I'd argue they should go at most to the crash cymbals in this section, which means there are only 4ish in this section
22.905/etc - Just like 1.747/etc., recommend dropping this roll pattern from 32nds to 24ths through the whole song (Consistency!)
24.011 - missed the downward roll pattern that starts here, include for consistency and remove the 16th at 24.090 to avoid polyrhythm
24.484/25.747 - not jump
24.642/25.905 - jump
29.221 - another missed downward roll I'd include for consistency even if it's not as noticeable
32.695 - 16ths stop here
39.169 - missing note

["Verse" 2, 42.484-63.958]
Layering: As is here starts overly complex and then decreases pretty randomly. Looks like you're trying to layer together the lead guitar, rhythm guitar and some drum blasts (in the first half). It's possible (somewhat difficult) to pull this off, it should just stay consistent (not change) within this section to make it feel more cohesive. Starting at 52.590, the kick transitions to double bass/straight 16ths, so it's fine to either completely ignore it or make a HARD PAIN jumpstream section there (recommend ignoring it).
What to follow: Recommend dropping the rhythm guitar and focus on the lead guitar and drum blasts. Somewhat similar to the previous section.

46.747/47.379/58.747 - still recommend that 24th idea
47.024 - doesn't seem to go to anything, remove
47.182 - similarly nothing here. Guitar doesn't do the sweep thing here
47.774 - nothing here to me
**52.590 - watch the rhythms from here to the next section, you have a lot of 16th rhythms that feel completely wrong. Focus on what you want to follow
56.853 - these are -actual- 24ths until the 4th, or at least it's probably best represented as such, and remove 32nd at 57.050
62.695-63.958 - I’m guessing these 32nds are for the “vocal”??? You ignored them at the very beginning, which I think was the better move. Still have the drums in here though, from 63.326-63.958

["Chorus," 63.958-74.063] -> Note similarity to intro
Layering: Try to keep as similar to what you did in the intro as possible for consistency. Go through this section and check jump/hand use

63.484/lots of repeats - still recommend that 24th idea
63.958/64.590 - usually 96ths/192nds are kept to accent something more unique than this, so I’d adjust these back to standard 4ths
66.326/lots of repeats - same idea as 4.432, guitar holds
71.695 - 24ths
72.958-74.063 - I love this! This is a really neat transition into the next section. Watch 16ths here though, 73.037 goes to nothing, and more should probably exist after each hand

[Bridge 2, 74.063-84.169]
Layering: Your current approach here can definitely work if you’re consistent with it. You start out this section after the quad following the lead guitar with hands, but then reduce to jumps around 77.695 pretty randomly. (Keep the quad!) You have a few options.
1- Keep hands on the lead guitar in the whole section
2- Make only lead guitar just jumps in the whole section
3- Make lead guitar hands and maybe snare drum (when it plays and the lead guitar doesn’t) jumps
4- Make lead guitar colour notes (like 192nds). Honestly probably the worst idea but is legitimate
Or decide if you want to ignore the drums in this section. It’d be a good choice as I think the rhythm guitar is doing something more interesting.

This section does need some fixing, but as long as you’re consistent in what you follow here I think you’re on the right track.

[Synth "solo," 84.169-94.274]
Layering: Frankly seems overall fine here.

86.774 - jump is out of place, remove
87.090 - goes lower here. Decide if you want to keep the one-hand trill before it, as this note should be separate from it. Might end up with something like this

88.274-89.537 - This syncs fine as 12ths. If you want to capture a bit of how the synth is pretty indeterminable at 89.221, I’d just put in 16ths to 89.537.
90.958/93.326 - this works better as 16ths. Recommend using a different pattern at each point to represent the different pitches

[Guitar solo part 1, 94.274-104.379]
Layering: Still good, perfectly legitimate to focus purely on guitar as singles/stream.

94.274-94.905 - still argue for the 24th idea
95.063-95.537 - arguably just 2 8ths here; it’s hard to make a case for including all these 32nds imo
95.537 - try this rhythm (doesn’t have to be this pattern, but this rhythm seems more accurate)

97.116 - just 24ths to the 8th, then 16ths
99.011-99.326 - still argue for the 24th idea
102.642 - probably not jump
103.342/103.747 - contentious, but understandable and cool, leave these lol

[Guitar solo part 2, 104.379-114.484]
Layering: DEFINITELY GOOD, same as last section.

You’ve clearly spent a ton of time on this section. The sync here is pretty well done overall!
However, I would recommend simplifying this slightly by removing one of any note that is 1 64th away from another (eg. remove either the 16th at 105.721 or the 64th at 105.741). The player won’t really be able to distinguish anything that fast. (In game it’ll just look like an oddly coloured jump)

*Then we can focus on the patterns used. There is a clear three note repetition here that isn’t as well reflected in the patterns used from the start of this section until 111.978.
Eg. starting at 104.379, change the patterns (Not the sync/rhythms!) to 3123123…, then at 105.622 change to eg. 4124124, and continue with this idea as needed

104.267 - ghost note
113.063 - this note is late, replace 3 64ths before here
113.616 - ghost note
113.695 - guitar plays 3 16ths starting here, so you’ll probably have to get rid of the 64th bursts you have here to accommodate

[Bridge 3, 114.484-124.590] -> Note similarity to Bridge 1
Frankly I’d remove what is here and just copy+paste the patterns you had at Bridge 1 and then tweak it a bit if/as needed. The consistent 32nds here don’t go to anything.

["Chorus," 124.590-144.800] -> Note similarity to intro
One advantage of sections repeating like this is you can literally just copy+paste what you did last time. Just need to go over it to make sure it still fits the music properly and tweak if necessary. This section seems to have more drums in the second half which would be ideal to layer in. This creates more of a climax as well and is a good contrast with the first time.

[Guitar solo bridge, 144.800-154.905]
Layering: To contrast with the next verse and keep consistent with how you did the big boy guitar solos, I’d definitely recommend making everything here single notes.

146.695/146.853 - don’t really hear anything to justify these 64ths
148.195 - missing note
148.511-148.669, 149.932-150.090 - ghost notes
153.011,153.169 - watch pitch relevancy
153.642,154.669 - ghost note
154.747 - missing note

["Verse" 3, 154.905-165.011] -> Note similarity to "Verse" 2; more like a second chorus
Layering: Same as Verse 2 ideally.

This is a definite weak spot of this file. As is, I can’t tell what your goals were with this section.

You might be able to copy-paste verse 2 and tweak accordingly. It definitely seems like there are too many 16ths here. Or you’re wanting to make this more of a jumpstream section?? Snares are somewhat consistently jumps here, but is that your intent?

Definitely some decisions to be made here, and I think the above is a simple, consistent way to go about fixing this section.

[Bridge 4, 165.011-180.169]
Layering: Quad to start is an excellent choice. After that is inconsistent, so you have some choices to make. The way this starts is a pretty solid way to do it (jump on snare, hand on crash, other guitar singles). Then you can do heavier layering in the last section for more intensity at the end. Start low to build higher sort of thing y’know?

That’s my recommendation for what to work on in this section. There are many other ways to do this part. As long as you’re consistent with it, and it makes sense flowing into the last section, it’ll be cool.

["Verse" 4, 180.169-end]
Layering: Quad to end is an excellent choice. I just really like quads. I’d also try to include as many of the 24th rolls here as possible. Otherwise is pretty good here, just needs some tweaks as outlined below.

182.537 - just 8ths, or bring back the 24th thing I keep mentioning
188.379 - start the trill here (make [14])
189.958 - end the trill here (last [4]), but continue 16ths to 190.274, however you like to capture the drums here
193.905 - guitar doesn’t really trill here, but you can leave this
198.484 - start trill here (with [14] probably)
199.747 - same idea as 189.958, end trill here, get the drums
200.063 - optionally make a 24th run to the next 4th here, watch patterning between hands or make the hands jumps
200.695 - ghost

[Overall thoughts]
I can't accept this file, but this review should give you a (overly) detailed picture of how to work on this file. Above, I mentioned how this song is ambitious for a first file, which is true (guitar solos are a pain even for experienced file makers). I would ordinarily recommend starting with something more simple. Please don't completely throw this away though -- this file is definitely salvageable, and one hell of a banger FFR file can be made from this. My and the other judge's notes should help clarify some things and you can apply those concepts to other songs too. Breaking up a song into phrases like this (when possible) to help plan out the file before you start is an incredibly powerful method to ensure consistency for any other song you plan to send. Something I should be doing more of myself...

This is way better than my first file! I hope I didn't scare you off with a novel on this file lol. My DMs are open (preferably on Discord) if you have any questions. Looking forward to more submissions from you, this shows definite promise!

*Ratings are not final until both judges have posted their notes and the file status is updated.*

Phoenix Rising (Knerves) [4.5/10]
> Permission check good.
> Sync looks good (No changes necessary).
> No issues found within simfile properties.
> No issues found within submission folder contents.

- For a first file, this is better than most i've seen, however there is still much to improve on before you can get a song into FFR.
- 0:01.747 There are quite a few 4 note bursts like this throughout the song. The sounds they represent aren't 4 separate notes, and i personally dont think the bursts work for the singular sounds. I know FFR doesn't have holds but i dont think this is the way around it. It feels quite dumpy in a bad way and detracts from the chart. This particular note also has a second sound following it, which isn't charted and comes after the burst ends. In general i would try and avoid using multiple notes for sounds like these and just focus on singular notes.
- 0:02.694 This jump is quite out of place. Consistency is key to making a good stepfile so you need to watch out for moments like this where you decide to chart something as a jump, that you stick with it throughout the section.
- 0:06.800 Look at columns 1 and especially 2 here. This section is especially heavy on the left hand and quite tricky. You need to watch out for note placement to avoid creating spiky sections like this. Just keep in mind things like anchors and especially when creating faster sections like this, how heavy it is on each hand. Pitch Relevancy might be fun to put into a chart, but it should never be prioritized over playability.
- 0:08.063 this is one such anchor that you should try and avoid. There is no musical justification to this anchor and its quite excessively long. Be sure to avoid these as they can be needlessly tricky to play, and might imply something that is not in the chart.
- 0:12.168 These trills are quite nice. really fits the section.
- 0:12.800 on the point of consistency, its important to note that snares are now jumps. Which is inconsistent with earlier in the chart where they were hands. There are times where it might be the right decision to change layering, but i dont think this is one of them. This is quite powerful, and i would even argue, with the added powerful guitar chord, is more worthy of the hand than the earlier snare. Also worth noting you go back to hands for snares at 0:15.958 and 0:24.168. Consistency is important, its like continuity in a film.
- 0:12.958 I like how you use teo opposite jumps for the two different sounds here. When charting 2 jumps for different sounds back to back, i think its always a good idea to make sure they share no notes to reinforce the idea that they are separate sounds. I only wish you continued it at places like 0:18.010
- 0:13.273 on another consistency note, its interesting how this kick gets a single, but the kick at 0:12.958 gets a jump.
- 0:13.747 this is another random jump. i assume you wanted to chart it for the keyboard here. However its important not to focus on too many things in a chart at once. In general a chart will be mroe solid if the player will be able to immediately understand the notes, and not be confused by the layering. This also replaces the jump that would usually be at 0:13.431, another consistency issue.
- 0:15.958 I Dont think this is the way to go about charting a section like this. First off, the drums are doing a 16th stream that is being ignored, when i would usually expect it to be charted. Secondly, If this is folowing the keyboard, its a bit sudden as the keyboard doesnt appear to be the main focus of the chart here. Also if its for the keyboard, it ignores the shifting pitches of the different keys.
- 0:24.484 This is a really soft cymbal to be charting a jump for. It exists throughout the song yet this is the first time its charted as a jump too. Considering the lack of keyboard in this section, i would recommend not charting anything here as it was always on this note previously, and now only the quiet cymbal is.
- 0:26.063 dont force yourself to use the same jump over and over again. this is how you get unwanted accidental anchors like the one on 2. You did a good job with it at 0:31.115, just remember to be consistent. Its also worth noting the power of these snares, Its something i would chart as hands.
- 0:32:379 this is really where the chart start to completely fall apart. The trills here dont quite line up with the music. This is a different variation on the earlier pattern, but fails to follow the rhythm of whats happening in the song. You can chose to follow the guitar or the drums, but whichever you choose, follow closely. Throughout this entire section there are missing and extra 16ths in the trills that should (not) exist. In the first trill for example, following the more obvious drums 0:32.773 and 0:32.931 are both ghost notes.
- 0:36.800 i have no idea what these jumps are for. they seem quite random and forced. I think trying to chart a bunch of these drums at jumps is backfiring and you're not always noticing or remembering. In general the chord usage in this chart can be quite confusing at times.
- 0:42.484 i get what you were trying to go for here, but i dont think it quite worked. And you seem to agree as starting at 0:47.536 you stopped the jumps. Another situation where you gotta be consistent.
- 0:42:694 This is a situation where you need to pay attention to your anchors. You are focusing on jacks following the guitars, but this anchor extends beyond the length of the guitars. Another instance is 0:49.905 This jack implies i should hear a single pitch from the guitar all the way to 0:51.010, but that simply is not the case. There are not this many guitar notes, and if you are trying to keep the trilly drum patters like at 0:48.800 you need make sure its on other keys. You need to pick one idea over the other and doing both just weakens both ideas. Listen closely to the chart, and dont over extend your jacks when the notes aren't there.
- 0:52.589 starting here there are constant drum 16ths however the chart fails to reflect that. Quite honestly it seems like this section you just randomly decided which 16ths you wanted to follow and the section is the worse for it.
- 0:53.852 This section is also filled with more needless anchors that shouldn't exist. I assume its partially to wanting them for the guitar, but again they dont correctly follow it and the section is worse for it.
- 1:02.734 This is the most egregious use of dumping 32nds that just doesn't work. The vocals are soft and the notes just dont go to the song at all.
- 1:04:747 look at columns 3 and 4. This is another case of needlessly heavy patterns on one hand.
- 1:14.063 I cant follow the rhythms in this section at all. This is another case of a section with a bunch of missing and ghost notes.
- 1:17.221 watch out for that left hand.
- 1:28.273 If you ever find yourself using 64ths like this, The actually rhythm is in 12ths. I know there are cases where this does happen, or you want to color theory it. But generally these should be charted as 12ths and not 64ths
- 1:33.326 i know this is the same sound, but the pitch is quite lower than 1:30.958, I'd recommend changing keys when this happens.
- 1:34.273 This guitar solo is a complete mess. I know an attempt was made but the notes just dont follow the guitar, and usually there are too many notes compared to the notes the guitar is playing. Personally i would avoid any song with a messy solo like this until you get a bit more charting under your belt. Tbh even i still struggle with solos like this. Sometimes its better to be more general and suggestive with note placements for solos like this, but also its just hard to get it right so i dont blame you for how this came out. All i can say is try again or just avoid it for now.

the rest of the chart is just more of the same, missing notes, ghost notes, unwarranted 64th bursts, needlessly long anchors, inconsistent chord sizes. i could go on and on but i think you get the point. I'd suggest Sending some files to people to try and get feedback on them so you can improve your charting. You have potential as a charter, but waiting 3-6 months to get feedback is a bit long if you want to improve and get a chart into the game. I can see the ideas and concepts that you wanted to try and execute, and with some more practice, experimentation and feedback, you could really let those ideas shine.

Thanks for the feedback, I took a hiatus from playing/stepping ffr and wasn't sure on the timeframe to get some opinions on this. I'll read through your notes, make some edits and resubmit the file.