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Old 08-2-2015, 08:49 PM   #1
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Default Stepmania Leaderboards Released!


http://smleaderboards.net/
http://smrankings.net

(either URL works)


Hey everyone, this is a project that many of you are probably already aware about that MinaciousGrace and myself (with help from several others) have been working on for the past month or so. We made an announcement today at the end of Staiain's stream and the site is now public. This is a beta release. While we've done a good amount of testing already there are certainly going to be improvements coming soon.

The site uses an algorithm to automatically determine the difficulty of files that we submit to it to be ranked. Users can then submit scores on ranked files to be considered for leaderboards on the site. This is just a brief overview, I would highly recommend people check out the detailed explanations available at http://smleaderboards.net/about

Initial feedback has been great, I look forward to seeing what everyone thinks of this project! If you run into any issues or have any troubles you can post here, PM me, talk to me on Skype, any way to get a hold of me is fine.


While this is just the initial release, there are a lot more cool features to come in the future, and we'll be refining the difficulty algorithm as time moves on. There are currently some outlier issues but most things seem to be pretty close.

We will be adding tons of files to the ranked files list now that the site is live, but if you'd like anything to be ranked right away just let us know and a mod will add it.
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Old 08-2-2015, 08:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
(btw add gundam dude oni 1.0 from nb5 yo)
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Old 08-2-2015, 08:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

I think this is a huge step forward for the Stepmania community. A proper difficulty grading system, profiles and picture galleries are a big help and will let people see the progress that they make over time. Stats like this is so beneficial to being a better player.

Absolutely wonderful work by wafles, mina, skwid, etc. You have all done such a wonderful job. Thank you for your efforts!
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Old 08-2-2015, 09:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrusizer View Post
Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
(btw add gundam dude oni 1.0 from nb5 yo)
Added
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Old 08-2-2015, 09:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

awesome that this got finished
now on to adding like 5000 songs rip
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Old 08-2-2015, 09:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

I might try this out.
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Old 08-2-2015, 10:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

added myself in, bunch of old scores though xD
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Old 08-2-2015, 10:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

was going to firstly complain about a lack of packs/songs but this has only been in the works for a month

how much of this is automated and how much is by hand
why do specific rates have their own score submission, this can potentially be abused

"While the index of ranked files is not intended to be "exclusive" or "elitist" there will be some measure of quality control by virtue of the process by which files are blocked."

can you elaborate on your "measure of quality control"

and lastly, what about this site warrants a release where you are required to contact a mod if you want a new score added to the database
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Old 08-2-2015, 10:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

i'm pessimistic so I just think this is going to be a blueplanet v2 or whatever site thaor was working on in 2008

site looks good though

edit: it doesn't seem that you're able to view player submitted scores? if this is the case, then this is dumb

Last edited by choof; 08-2-2015 at 10:54 PM..
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Old 08-2-2015, 11:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

Quote:
Originally Posted by choof View Post
was going to firstly complain about a lack of packs/songs but this has only been in the works for a month

how much of this is automated and how much is by hand
why do specific rates have their own score submission, this can potentially be abused

"While the index of ranked files is not intended to be "exclusive" or "elitist" there will be some measure of quality control by virtue of the process by which files are blocked."

can you elaborate on your "measure of quality control"

and lastly, what about this site warrants a release where you are required to contact a mod if you want a new score added to the database
The difficulties are programmatically derived.

Files that are blocked from appearing on the rankings are mostly limited to holdstream files at the moment. Other gimmicky files that have no business being ranked will also not be ranked.

You don't have to talk to a mod to add your own scores, but mods are the only people who can rank new files in which you can submit scores for.



Quote:
Originally Posted by choof View Post
i'm pessimistic so I just think this is going to be a blueplanet v2 or whatever site thaor was working on in 2008

site looks good though

edit: it doesn't seem that you're able to view player submitted scores? if this is the case, then this is dumb
You can view player submitted scores on each user's profile. They are linked from the users display name on the leaderboards, i.e.: http://smleaderboards.net/profile/view/Wafles
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Old 08-2-2015, 11:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

viewing scores on a user profile instead of the song page itself is backwards as hell
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Old 08-2-2015, 11:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

tfw Disregard 1.0 is ranked harder than The Others is pretty scary

neat idea tho!
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Old 08-2-2015, 11:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

Quote:
Originally Posted by choof View Post
viewing scores on a user profile instead of the song page itself is backwards as hell
I will add that feature soon. Its on our to-do list.
That and individual file leaderboards.
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Old 08-2-2015, 11:34 PM   #14
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynam0 View Post
tfw Disregard 1.0 is ranked harder than The Others is pretty scary

neat idea tho!
oh what

that's wacky, i'll look into that one, something is going a bit crazy with disregard
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Old 08-2-2015, 11:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

I have no idea what the algorithm does but my theory is the lower the total note and freeze count the more the difficulty can spike. Disregard has no freezes so it's likely a huge factor.
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Old 08-2-2015, 11:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

Yeah that's def. part of it. It's also majorly boosting the difficulty of the trills at the end of the file. In short, the algorithm makes passes on the file for assumed player difficulty "X", increasing the value by 0.01 every time. Once it gets 93% that becomes the difficulty of the file.

What seems to be happening is that the trills at the end of the file just kill runs by causing a lot of misses because our algorithm sees them as jacks (and as such increases their difficulty). It's being overdone by a fair bit at the moment.
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Old 08-3-2015, 12:28 AM   #17
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

Is there any way to distinguish charts of different difficulties for a song?
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Old 08-3-2015, 01:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

Ok before any witch hunt to disparage the algorithm gets out of hand I want to state a few things clearly:

If something is obviously wrong, then I already know about it.

Making tendentious conjectures about the operations and deficiencies of a system I created by myself is not helpful. Doing so necessarily takes the stance of presuming that you are more an expert on my own work than I am. If any of you wish to continue to do this I ask that you preface your remarks with "Given that I know more about the algorithm than its creator..."

There is a delay between resolving issues and testing of the adjustments using my local parser and Wafles updating the version on the site. Many of the current issues are already resolved and awaiting implementation.

The entire point of having an algorithm is accountability. The system has been designed from the ground up to facilitate detection and rectification of issues that result in erroneous scoring. If I can't resolve the issues to a satisfactory degree, then I am accountable.

I also must dispel any illusion that this tool is somehow collectively owned by the community. It is not. It is a tool that I created and thanks to Wafles have made available for the community to make use of. I gain nothing from the hundreds of hours of work I've spent on this project and I am not so naive as to expect any compensation or thanks in return.

What I do expect however, even as unreasonable as it is, is some modicum of acknowledgement that I am capable of recognizing glaring issues and resolving them on my own.

A decision was made to release the site for public use as early as possible with the clear indication that it is still a work in progress. This is very clearly stated on the site and so is virtually everything else in this post.

Aside from the well documented issues with the algorithm, the core functionalities of the site remain intact. If you have a genuine interest in helping me refine this tool the best possible thing you can do is submit scores and suggest songs and rates so that large sample sizes I cannot quickly reproduce on my own are available for analysis concerning any pernicious underlying trends.

Even if you have no interest in helping me, this is the entire point of the site, Unless your expectation is that no updates will ever be made to it your time is probably better served just doing that.

If you just want to sit here and shitmonger then I guess you are free to do so. If you want to shitmonger in whatever various skype groups you are free to do that as well, however doing so neither helps nor hurts my efforts, making it the most pointless course of action regardless of your intent.

@choof:
"
A file will not be ranked for any of the following reasons:
- Has not been and cannot be “AA”d.
- Is assigned a wildly incorrect difficulty due to some oversight in the scoring algorithm. These instances will be investigated and the underlying cause will be rooted out and corrected, and once done files removed or blocked for this reason will be ranked assuming they do not meet any other criteria for exclusion.
- Is a “vibro” file. In practice vibro files must be considered too differently from traditional files in terms of difficulty scoring as a pad file would be. Also nobody cares about vibro.
"

Otherwise files that are terrible and nobody ever plays will not be ranked by virtue of the fact that they are never played. Terrible files that are commonly played will still end up ranked, hence the "some measure".
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Old 08-3-2015, 08:39 AM   #19
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

^most elitist post I've seen in years, my god that's a cringey read

OP: "Hey guys we're releasing a beta of this neat algorithm that's going to have a ton of flaws so give us your feedback!

Community: *gives feedback*

Mina: "You guys are mean I can fix it on my own"


Show some backbone, it's going to be expected when you release a beta version of anything that people pick it apart.
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Old 08-3-2015, 10:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: Stepmania Leaderboards Released!

even though i'm pretty sure it's unrankable i think this data point's pretty interesting:
kepo's op from midare 1 is given a higher rating than any song currently on this site (10.02)
the one dense part at the beginning is given a pattern difficulty of 33, but the ending jack is given 45
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Last edited by lurker; 08-3-2015 at 10:09 AM..
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