Ingame Song Information

[mhss1992]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

They either should move all of these songs to VC, or several other songs, like the final VCs in misc, should be moved to FMO.
I think I prefer the first option.

[jimerax]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

meh, things like "at this pace RATO will become FMO" are the most useless kind of discussions here.

and yeah changing Fei Longer to VC is likely.

[Niala]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

@Firefox and Hairy Cabbage:

The people who have the power to change FMO's to VC's don't listen to our reasoning, and then provide little to no points refuting what we have to say, that, might I add, are typically the same things repeated over and over, and still think that they're right. Stop arguing, it's useless. We did this whole thing before forever ago when the changes of what unlocks [Oni] were being discussed, and not a single person listened to what anybody had to say except their own opinion, which is not biased to the side of people for moving [Oni] up, however. Don't waste your breath, even if you are right, there's no point fighting a losing battle. I don't disagree with you two at all, but, it's a waste of time.

On the subject of Hajnal, I think 79 fits, probably not quite an 80, but if you want to make it the easiest 80, then go ahead.. The last 500 combo is full of 32nd rolls that make the chart tough to PA/AAA. It seems that people tend to judge this song on it just being 2000 arrows, and it just being really easy, and relatively slow, small 16th spurts with jumps layered in, which for the most part is true, but the multicolored trill followed by a 32nd roll is really tough to consistently PA, and the ending makes this song hard enough to warrant a 79 or an 80. And, yes, IMO, much harder than Strangeprogram and Rottel. Strangeprogram=stream. And, the song is fast enough that you don't even need to have especially good timing because of the wide range of perfects on FFR. It has a few tricky spots, i.e., the rolls that switch directions, and the 1-handed trills, but really, it's not all that hard. It's not like you're playing Perfect Cherry Storm or something...

Rottel is MUCH easier, I always thought it should be a 77 or 78, personally. The only hard part of the song is the beginning, because it was foolishly stepped, and is probably harder to PA than all of CCCP and J'ai Envie de Plaisir x2 if they were layered on top of each other. Other than that, it's just simple 8th jumpstream, with a few 16th jumps that aren't even that hard, except the [13][24][13][24][13] section. If the start wasn't there, it'd probably be a VC, because there's nothing else that even begins to describe FMO status on FFR. And, if those two songs are 79's, then Hajnal can be a 79 too.

It's kind of hard to compare FotBB and AIM Anthem to Hajnal, considering they're all basically polar opposites. It's hard to compare jacks and trills to Hajnal, which has 1 trill and no jacks. It's all 32nd rolls, which needs a different kind of skill to do. You can't add 3 apples and 4 oranges, and say you have 7 orapples. Doesn't work that way. If you want to compare raw difficulty, however, Hajnal is probably easier than both of them, but, they're both shorter, and have a significantly smaller amount of arrows, so it evens them out. In terms of being able to AAA them... Hajnal has enough screwy spots to stop you from AAAing it consistently, and to make it tough to AAA the first time. It's not like certain FMO's, i.e., Largiloquent Dithyramb, where if you get 1 spot (the 24th jacks) you can most likely get the rest. There's enough in there to screw with you. FotBB is really hard to AAA because of a couple of reasons, the biggest one I'm seeing is the fact that it doesn't feel on time. Also, the 1-handed trills are death, and numerous. Personally, I think it should be higher than 79, make it an 80, or an 81, but that's not going to happen, so whatever. AIM Anthem is nice and short, and only about half of it is what's considered hard about the chart, the jacks. And, for the most part, they're all just the same jack repeated like 16 times, and then it changes. Plus, it gives you nice little breaks, which makes it easier to keep up with. However... the jumpjacks that switch arrows, and those arrows HAD to be a 1-handed jump switching to a 2-handed jump make it incredibly hard to AAA. However, 79 still fits, because it's not especially difficult except those few measures of steps.

GoSW is actually not that hard when you get the hang of it. I'm really awful at it, but, the chart is all the same, just 24th stream. Although, some of the stream is kind of messy, it doesn't change much except for the spot with the trills, so you know what to expect, and it makes the song easier to get through. The song isn't exceptionally fast, either, so, it makes the trills pretty easy to PA, and the rest quite easy still. You might get tripped up because some of the rhythms are a really awkward, but, the chart overall isn't that hard.

Comparing it to Epidermis... They're really about the same, Epidermis is a lot faster, but has almost no 32nds in it, and fewer jumps. The rhythms in the middle are silly and make it tough to PA, but the rest is just a matter of "are you fast enough?" because there's a lot of the stream that makes you try to do patterns like 1343134313431etc., and the 1-handed triplets make it tough to PA. But, the songs are similar in idea, I'd say around the same difficulty level, or so.

EDIT: I like to write novels. :B
EDIT2: As a side note, I'd like to see more posts like this ^^^. More interesting to read, with legitimate points. You all need to back up your opinions...

[what up]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

stank pussy

[foxfire667]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

@Firefox and Hairy Cabbage:

The people who have the power to change FMO's to VC's don't listen to our reasoning, and then provide little to no points refuting what we have to say, that, might I add, are typically the same things repeated over and over, and still think that they're right. Stop arguing, it's useless. We did this whole thing before forever ago when the changes of what unlocks [Oni] were being discussed, and not a single person listened to what anybody had to say except their own opinion, which is not biased to the side of people for moving [Oni] up, however. Don't waste your breath, even if you are right, there's no point fighting a losing battle. I don't disagree with you two at all, but, it's a waste of time.

That is probably true, but sense I have the ability to on the site, I want to at least speak up a bit about being a little uneasy on the changes. I haven't been on here for 5 years or anything, and certainly have no idea about who listens to who or who does what, or if any site moderators are even paying attention to the users at all, but I figure, if I say something...at least I gave some shot at trying to make a compromise, or to just plain scrap the new idea in general. According to many people around here, the site moderators / administrators aren't exactly "democratic" with the users on the site, and just do what they want to do, but hell. I might as well at least say something about it if I feel like it is something that isn't exactly the most logical solution, at least in my opinion.

Although you are probably right on that, if they want to do it, it is going to happen, simple as that. I mean there was a time when Vertex BETA was a "For Masters Only," I guess they are just lowering the difficulties again...and soon enough they'll lower some difficulties on more songs.

I'm just saying, that at the moment...they have songs in there that are hard for me to FC without some mashing in the SAME difficulty as some songs I have black-flagged / AAA'd etc. I think that is a little too much variety, for just one single difficulty rating.

Also: My user-name is incredible, everyone for some reason puts "firefox" instead of "foxfire" when they try to type or say my user-name anywhere. It is crazy!

[DAD1]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

stank pussy

what up

[Niala]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

That is probably true, but sense I have the ability to on the site, I want to at least speak up a bit about being a little uneasy on the changes. I haven't been on here for 5 years or anything, and certainly have no idea about who listens to who or who does what, or if any site moderators are even paying attention to the users at all, but I figure, if I say something...at least I gave some shot at trying to make a compromise, or to just plain scrap the new idea in general. According to many people around here, the site moderators / administrators aren't exactly "democratic" with the users on the site, and just do what they want to do, but hell. I might as well at least say something about it if I feel like it is something that isn't exactly the most logical solution, at least in my opinion.

Although you are probably right on that, if they want to do it, it is going to happen, simple as that. I mean there was a time when Vertex BETA was a "For Masters Only," I guess they are just lowering the difficulties again...and soon enough they'll lower some difficulties on more songs.

I'm just saying, that at the moment...they have songs in there that are hard for me to FC without some mashing in the SAME difficulty as some songs I have black-flagged / AAA'd etc. I think that is a little too much variety, for just one single difficulty rating.

Also: My user-name is incredible, everyone for some reason puts "firefox" instead of "foxfire" when they try to type or say my user-name anywhere. It is crazy!

I applaud your effort, then, because I've given up on it. I don't disagree at all with the points you're making, either, so good luck to you. And, wow, I hadn't even noticed that your name was foxfire and not firefox... I guess I'm just mentally trained to read it the other way, haha.

[jimerax]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

I listen to opinions that make sense when I see them. In this case it's worth listening if you can logically explain "Silence/K8107/etc are significaltly harder than high-VC songs and as hard as other FMOs". Another alternative is keeping all old FMOs and raising some high-VC songs, but I hate this one.

I didn't join [Oni] change discussion at all, so I don't know.

[jimerax]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

oh and it's funny to see recent people don't even know about avmiss era and how songs were rated at that time and how they were changed

[Niala]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

I listen to opinions that make sense when I see them. In this case it's worth listening if you can logically explain "Silence/K8107/etc are significaltly harder than high-VC songs and as hard as other FMOs". Another alternative is keeping all old FMOs and raising some high-VC songs, but I hate this one.

I didn't join [Oni] change discussion at all, so I don't know.

Nah, didn't really mean you. You actually ask people for their opinions and tend to make changes based on what not only you, but what other people think. It's mostly mods on the basis of [Oni] that I was referring to, however, a lot of people on the side of not changing the [Oni]-unlock songs weren't even capable of listening to the other side, so it was really unfair either way.

Silence is a VC. Blue-note-syndrome was the only reason it was EVER a FMO, and it doesn't even seem like much of a problem anymore, so, that's that.

K8107. Iffy. Very borderline. The trills are kind of hard to AAA consistently, you can screw them up really easily. The stream is easy, the 8th sections are easy, but the ending... It's kind of hard. But, really, it's just jumptrills, and it's not really THAT hard, because the patterns are very player friendly. I can see VC for it.

LW4 is a fine VC, too. Stream is all really easy. For the most part it doesn't even switch directions, it's just back and forth patterns. The start has kind of awkward rhythms, but really, it's a VC.

SC... I can see why it's not an FMO, but I can't see why it IS a VC. If you want jumpstream FMO's, then compare it to EHHS and 4CT, and it doesn't even come close to being an FMO. But, the jumpstream is kind of long and consistent throughout the song, and it has 32nds in the stream, which makes it quite a bit harder to PA. And then there's the 16th jump section near the end which is kind of difficult... I think maybe making it a 75 is more fair. It's kind of very borderline.

I'm not even going to bother discussing NWE. I think making LW4 the 74 and SC a 75 makes more sense than the other way around, but I don't disagree with the changes, although I'd like to see SC and/or K8107 being FMO's. They feel like they fit.

[jimerax]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

SC is slower and has sparse jumps compared to EHHS and 4CT.
It's somewhat hard to AAA due to the length, but I think that's all. 75 is fine though.
LW4 is still as hard as, or a bit harder than VB, so 75 fits more IMO.

also I think jumpstream was a bit too overratad as a difficulty factor, so EHHS/4CT will be downrated by 1 as well.

[Niala]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

True, but I agree about the 75 for SC. LW4 can work for 75, too, if you really want to. It's a bit harder than I'm giving it credit for, I think... EHHS can be downrated, but 4CT is at the right spot. The patterns in the song, especially those silly multicolored areas at the start, and the jumps placed on the 16ths, are really hard, and the stream is not very friendly. When you reach the jumpstream, it gets really hard because of the 24th areas inside the stream. And, keep in mind, this song is really fast. It's a good 82, fits in with Erad and Demon Fire really well.

[foxfire667]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

SC is slower and has sparse jumps compared to EHHS and 4CT.
It's somewhat hard to AAA due to the length, but I think that's all. 75 is fine though.
LW4 is still as hard as, or a bit harder than VB, so 75 fits more IMO.

I don't know, maybe it is just me...but Southern Cross is a bit more difficult for me to get good results on compared to Lawn Wake IV, which I keep getting closer to AAA'ing.

I would though, defiantly say Lawn Wake IV is harder than Vertex beta, pretty much due to the speed factor in my opinion. Also Vertex Beta has a little more leniency as far as the patterns go compared to Lawn Wake IV, so for them to be in the same difficulty range might be a little much, considering.

To be honest, I think if they just kept them as technical "For Masters Only" songs (that originally unlocked oni of AAA'd) but were moved down to "Very Challenging" then that would be fine...because then instead of having to make a whole entire new difficulty setting on the game like people have been suggesting, they could just have the harder "Very Challenging" songs that were moved down from "For Masters Only" unlock Otaku Speedvibe [Oni]. I think that would work out alright.

Kind of like what they did with the song "Famouz," it unlocks Otaku Speedvibe [Heavy], even though it is only labeled as a difficulty 62, not a 65.

[qqwref]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

To be honest, I think if they just kept them as technical "For Masters Only" songs (that originally unlocked oni of AAA'd) but were moved down to "Very Challenging" then that would be fine...because then instead of having to make a whole entire new difficulty setting on the game like people have been suggesting, they could just have the harder "Very Challenging" songs that were moved down from "For Masters Only" unlock Otaku Speedvibe [Oni]. I think that would work out alright.

None of the low FMOs (or ex-FMOs) unlock Oni anyway - they made the requirement much harder recently. For some reason the players who already have the token think it's too easy (uh, so? you already have it) and that if it's going to be the hardest token to unlock it might as well be continuously made harder so that the token will somehow continue to represent the most elite players despite the fact that 478 people have it already. They're definitely not going to make it easier.

[foxfire667]

Re: R1 - Actual Song Difficulties V2

None of the low FMOs (or ex-FMOs) unlock Oni anyway - they made the requirement much harder recently. For some reason the players who already have the token think it's too easy (uh, so? you already have it) and that if it's going to be the hardest token to unlock it might as well be continuously made harder so that the token will somehow continue to represent the most elite players despite the fact that 478 people have it already. They're definitely not going to make it easier.

I'm sure that isn't the case, they are just probably trying to make themselves look better by saying getting [Oni] is too easy, although...you would still have to be quite amazing at the game to get it.

I guess that makes sense, but now it is going to take me a while to come close to getting it, that is, unless Lawn Wake I allows me to get it...then I might have a shot, as that is probably the most easy For Masters Only song for me at the moment now.

Oh well then, at least for the moment I have Otaku Speedvibe [heavy]!