Jesus the product of Rape??

[87x]

I heard today from a friend of mine that there has been a new discovery.... People have found documents that say that Mary (the virgin Mary) filed a rape crime against a Roman Guard (or something like that), well the guy was stoned to death, and people are starting to speculate wether or not Jesus was really a product of God, or if its the product of the Rape... How would this affect Christianity.. or any other religion for that matter..

I haven't tried looking for a link to the news article yet.. but i will be sure to search..

[banditcom]

Dont talk about religion. Just dont. It just leads to flaming and debates...and I just end up offending someone. So, no more religious threads/talking about religion.

And no, I am not Jewish.

:P

Anways, I have no clue. I'd like to see that article though.

[lightdarkness]

Doubtfull
there was horrible documentation back then
however, i just contradicted myself
so, i guess that couldve happend, so yes, we need some news articles. I will search as well....

[aleco]

I am a Christian, and I believe that is total crap. End of case.

[lightdarkness]

i win
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/23/1040510994183.html

[87x]

damnit light.. i was just about to post that same link..

[heyhey11]

No you dont that explained nothing execpt how the church argues with this story

Lol never woulda expected that
Church Argueing

Thank god i am jewish

[banditcom]

Many said that the story of the virgin birth resulted from poor biblical translations and a literary tradition which made up stories about a person's early life to emphasise their importance.

Heh.. ironic... I feel that way about religions in general.

[87x]

Dont talk about religion. Just dont. It just leads to flaming and debates...and I just end up offending someone. So, no more religious threads/talking about religion.

And no, I am not Jewish.

:P

Anways, I have no clue. I'd like to see that article though.

yea... well this isn't religion.. this is a debate on whether the lady got raped or not.. and your view on it... then its a simple question of how would this change christianity, or any other religion... i dont think it falls under a totally religious discussion..

[banditcom]

I was f'in with you 87x ;)

[Synthlight]

Aleco, these things always make for interesting conversation. What did you mean exactly by "End of case"? Does that mean because you are christian that automatically devalidates the possible event that was brought up in this thread?

Cheers,

Synthlight

[banditcom]

It's called ignorance and being closed minded, Synth. :D

[aleco]

I mean there is no way I am going to believe it. It means nothing about others, just me.

[banditcom]

Then make sure we know you mean that aleco. The "End of case" gave us the wrong impression.

[aleco]

Sorry then.
End of case for me. Hopefully other Christians too, but that isn't up to me.

[banditcom]

It's no problem bro.

[Synthlight]

Thanks for the clarification Aleco. Lets say however that it did come to light that indeed that was what happened? How would that affect your views?

Cheers,

Synthlight

[aleco]

Yes, I didn't think it was true for a second.
It would seriously make me wonder, though, if I did believe it.

[87x]

you are a faithful person aleco.. im also skeptable about the article.. "im not really a christian.. so my faith isn't there to say it didn't happen.. but it's kinda vague with details.."... it says her name might have been "Miriam"... i haven't seen a follow up to this article and it was posted 23 dec, 03, so either they found it to be not true.. OR They just haven't found any other information on it yet.. and just for Jewpin.. There may have been a cover-up, something the cathlic/christian church didn't want us to find out..

[aleco]

Her name may have been Miriam. That is possible.

[87x]

well i agree.. anything is possible.. its possible she could have been raped.. and possible jesus was the child of a rapest... but im just not sure of the whoel thing.. i could argue ether way on this one..

[banditcom]

OR... it's possible that all of these things are just exaggerated stories.

EDIT: I should read the Bible sometime so I can gain better insight on that whole side of things (religion), because I'm agnostic.

[87x]

true.. so.. to the other question.. how would christianity and other religions change if this was found out to be true..

[banditcom]

You're asking an agnostic, not an atheist. So the answer would be accepting the religion. I don't know what an atheist would say.

I'm open minded, but I can't accept many aspects of religion, ESPECIALLY organized religion. Many people follow the masses and don't have their OWN beliefs. Aleco has his own beliefs and they only pertain to him. I respect that.

EDIT: Oh I read that wrong.. thought you were asking me if the religions were proven true how would my viewpoint change.. :P

[Moogy]

Maybe, maybe not. Unless there's a follow-up with some more conclusive evidence, we can't say for sure...

I agree with the part about religions tending to exaggerate things, though...

EDIT: Oh yeah, what's the difference between an agnostic and an atheist?

[banditcom]

Atheist is "there is no god. (period)" and agnostics are more like "religion doesn't affect me... I don't know if there is a God or not."

Most atheists are probably agnostic. For me, I just live life and don't try to think of those types of things. I respect others as long as they respect me and don't try to put THEIR beliefs on me.

[87x]

ha.. so how would a agnostic feel about evolution?.. not meaning to go off topic.. PM me with the answer

[Brainmaster07]

Atheist means you believe in scientificly proven facts, god goes against everything science has proven, so atheasts don't believe in him.

Like me.

[87x]

atheist (as it was explained to me) believes that **** just is here.. just one day it popped up..
Exolutionist believe the big bang and all that stuff
i was tought they were two seperate things.

[makaveli121212]

it wont affect christainity at all becuase 1 it cant be preoven and 2 christians wont believe it

[heyhey11]

Yeah but Christians are supposed to spread word of their religon and try to make others convert

What are they going to say

Join us and our product of raped leader

[Cenright]

If you are a christian, you believe in the validity of the bible. This means that you absolutely do not believe this. (If you are christian, that is.)

[heyhey11]

Well i am jewish but can the christians really argue with proven evidence (if it ever is proven) I mean how can you deny something that has been proven over something that says god personally ****ed this women and made her pregnent

[heyhey11]

(on a lighter side) lol god must have a HUGE dick and probably has like the atlantic ocean size jizz

[aleco]

If you are a christian, you believe in the validity of the bible. This means that you absolutely do not believe this. (If you are christian, that is.)

Exactly. That's why I don't believe it.

[VxDx]

You Christians will believe anything (except for this).

[Cenright]

Heyhey11, there was no sex, that is why she is called "Virgin Mary".

[aleco]

Really VxDx? Like what?

[heyhey11]

Heyhey11, there was no sex, that is why she is called "Virgin Mary".

Worse then she was both male and female ESPECIALLY SINCE SHE PRODUCED A MALE that is the XY genotype and it needs a male to produce the X

[aleco]

That's why it was a miracle by God.

[Mandragora]

I love the idea that people are so willing to point out that the Bible may have flaws that make this story true, but are unwilling to recognize that this article, written by those whose hands weren't made holy with the word of God (as the Bible WAS, and is actually hailed as one of the most accurate historical accounts of events ever written), may as well.

I don't believe these people are trying to somehow destroy Christian ideals. I feel they simply do not understand what it is to be Christian. Aleco, don't waver on the question of "What if it IS true?" It's a non-issue, because as Christians, we are positive it is not.

Btw, heyhey11, the Torah is the Christian Old Testament.

You follow the Bible too, or should. So deny "God stories" all you want, and deny your own faith.

[aleco]

I'm saying no Christian should or will believe it. That's all.

[banditcom]

Aleco: Ignore VxDx.

ha.. so how would a agnostic feel about evolution?

Evolution is a big reason why I'm agnostic. A few of my friends were laughing at me and saying there is no proof whatsoever of it happening. I just ended the convo before I shoved all their religious crap in their faces for not respecting my views.

atheist (as it was explained to me) believes that (#$% just is here.. just one day it popped up..
Exolutionist believe the big bang and all that stuff
i was tought they were two seperate things.

Which is why I said most atheists are actually agnostic...

[aleco]

Banditcom: I want to see what he has to say.

[heyhey11]

Btw, heyhey11, the Torah is the Christian Old Testament.

You follow the Bible too, or should. So deny "God stories" all you want, and deny your own faith.

YEAHHHHHHHHHH someone who actually understands religon other than cenright

See i dont believe in the God storys and the splitting of seas

I do believe in God but he is only for faith

Not for miracles

[banditcom]

Aleco: You won't get a serious answer.

[VxDx]

Banditcom: I want to see what he has to say.

Oh; god, jesus, the bible, creationism, resurrection, blind faith, sacraments, church, and so on.

[Synthlight]

Which brings up another interesting point. How authentic is the english language version of the bible? How many times has it been translated and revised over the years and adapted to target it's audience? Why is there confusion as to the real name of Mary when it is the most accurate historical accounts of events ever written? Realize that I am putting this out there purely for the enjoyment of conversation.

You do know btw that any Stenographer would dispute your claim as the most accurate historical accounts of events ever written Mandragora? lol

Cheers,

Synthlight

[banditcom]

My friend just handed me this book called "The Evolution Cruncher". Meh... I'll look through it to see what crap they dispute.

[aleco]

Vxdx: yeah, it's called religion.
Synth: There are some very interesting things people disagree or can't understand. It's all weird. That's why you have faith.

[heyhey11]

Which brings up another interesting point. How authentic is the english language version of the bible? How many times has it been translated and revised over the years and adapted to target it's audience? Why is there confusion as to the real name of Mary when it is the most accurate historical accounts of events ever written? Realize that I am putting this out there purely for the enjoyment of conversation.

You do know btw that any Stenographer would dispute your claim as the most accurate historical accounts of events ever written Mandragora? lol

Cheers,

Synthlight

i think its because writting in back when the bible was published could not have been extremely neat. A little typo could change the whole name of someone.

[VxDx]

Yeah, and your blind faith amuses me. I love that you live based on a fictional book.

[banditcom]

VxDx: Respect his beliefs. He's not putting them on you.

[VxDx]

I do respect his beliefs, insofar as he can believes what he wishes, but it's not what I believe, so I ask that you respect my beliefs.

[Synthlight]

VxDx, this is not an area to flame people. If you do not have anything of value to add, please leave the thread. You are only trying to enrage certain people.

Cheers,

Synthlight

[VxDx]

Not at all, I'm really curious as to why and how people can believe what they do.

[banditcom]

"blind faith" isn't really a nice way to ask... :P

[Master_of_PARANOiA]

sometimes people don't even know why they believe what they do VxDx.

for example: I believe in god, I don't know why I believe in god, but nevertheless I do.

[Moogy]

Blind Faith is a song from Pump It Up. Quite good if I remember correctly.

[TheChuck0]

Which brings up another interesting point. How authentic is the english language version of the bible? How many times has it been translated and revised over the years and adapted to target it's audience? Why is there confusion as to the real name of Mary when it is the most accurate historical accounts of events ever written? Realize that I am putting this out there purely for the enjoyment of conversation.


Yeah and plus the monks wrote and translated the bible in really dim lit rooms in the monastaries, scriptoria I think they are called, so of course there would be mistranslations. Plus because of the religious turmoil in that time things certainly could have been added and taken out. Just wanted to throw some history in.

[BluE_MeaniE]

Yes, each language has its own subtleties and nuances. When you translate from one language to another, it is very difficult to mean the exact same thing.

[Anticrombie0909]

I think all religion is crap anyway, so this doesn't affect me very much since I don't believe in Jesus.

Sometime, watch 'Monty Python and the Life of Brian' and tell me what you thought of it, especially if you're the religious type.

[Brainmaster07]

I just don't see how people can believe in something that they have never seen, has never been seen by anyone, has never left any evidence of being, and is in everyway impossible to exist. Not trying to bash it or anything, I just don't get how you can believe that...

And even if there's the whole 'He will come again to judge the living and the dead'... if he sends people to hell because they don't believe in him, he has pretty bad tastes :?.

[Omeganitros]

"I think the best thing the Lord created was a sense of humor. Isnt it ironic that the most religious people tend to not have one?" -[Forgot who said it]

[Anonymous]

wow if jesus was the product of a rape

1. it makes a lot of sense to me
2. Finally people wont think im crazy when i say its ok to rape someone because Jesus is a bastard child; a product of rape.
3. rape nuns.
4. rape me ((Again!)) (nirvana)
5. (this isnt official, which means it wont hold up in court, but) I raped a girl before.

gays. homos. queers. < not people i identify with in the least.


i think jesus might have been a homosexual.

Howard Dean for 2004! **** my bushy nuts and **** bush he sucks!

The Next President Has to resurrect Kurt Cobain! amen to that! even tho im agnostic...

[deathstar402]

wow if jesus was the product of a rape

1. it makes a lot of sense to me
2. Finally people wont think im crazy when i say its ok to rape someone because Jesus is a bastard child; a product of rape.
3. rape nuns.
4. rape me ((Again!)) (nirvana)
5. (this isnt official, which means it wont hold up in court, but) I raped a girl before.

gays. homos. queers. < not people i identify with in the least.


i think jesus might have been a homosexual.

Howard Dean for 2004! $*%# my bushy nuts and $*%# bush he sucks!

The Next President Has to resurrect Kurt Cobain! amen to that! even tho im agnostic...


i claim this guest post as mine.

[Anonymous]

Someone said that the torah was the christians old testiment? well.. you're wrong because it was writin in hebrew. Which is jewish. Jesus was jewish. Jews (me) just believe that jesus is not the mesiah. he could possibly be a messanger from got , but not the peoples savior. its quit possible that jesus could have survived the crusifiction. my dad whos christian said something about him only being on the cross for a day. and being in his tomb for 3. People are crusified every year in mexico i think. or somewhere in south american. they dont die :/. People can go without food for 3 days. the people who are crusified every year do not die. they do not recieve medical attention either. so why is it that jesus must have been the son of god even though he was crusified and put in a tomb for 3 days.

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidz.html

what does that website say for christianity?

some things that the site points out (most of them are racist) :

If you find an Atheist in your neighborhood,
TELL A PARENT OR PASTOR RIGHT AWAY!

You may be moved to try and witness to
these poor lost souls yourself, however
AVOID TALKING TO THEM!

Atheists are often very grumpy and bitter and will lash out at children or they may even try to trick you into neglecting God's Word.

Very advanced witnessing techniques are needed for these grouches. Let the adults handle them.



some facts the site says about the world.

Q:Hey retarded giraff.. werent dinosaurs extinct over a million years ago?
A:wrong my little buddy. dino's still walk on the earth , swim in the sea and the earth is less then 10 000 years old!

yea im sure jackass giraff.. go spread your bull**** somewhere else..

another is

Q:Hey retarded ****ed up giraff.. are we the "monkey men" of the netherlands that evolutionists keep talking about?
A: why no they are deformed humans with advanced age and flood-cloud-related rickets.. whatever the **** that means.

yea so my point is that its really quite possible that mary could have been impregnated by the guard and that jesus isnt the messiah. im also not ruling out the point that he is. i believe that it could be possible. but it may not. im not a strong believer in god because of what he put me through. If there is a god. i will find out when i die. and if he did create me and loves me, no matter what mistakes ive made he should forgive me for what i have done. and for the wrong things i do when im alive. why wouldnt he forgive me when im dead if he created me? thats my view on it :/... haha oh well this is getting long ill end it here.

[Jello]

ah ****.. it logged me out and that last post is me... JELLO .. sorry about that for some reason when you dont do anything for a long time ffr logs you out

[87x]

well.. i see exactly what your saying jello.. and i can see how this wouldn't really affect you.. or your religion.. i have yet to find a follow up report on this.. which is makeing me second guess this whole thing.. but.. its just weird to think that this might have happened...

[banditcom]

Yea that dumb book I looked through has things about a dinosaur still being alive and all this other stuff... I couldn't stand looking through the book, the main reason was because the guy did random bolding, and sometimes they were underlined too.

[87x]

someone said something about the red sea being parted..

here..
"This is what the book of Exodus says about the parting of the Red Sea:
"And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon dry ground: the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left."
Two mathematicians--one from St. Petersburg, Russia and the other from Hamburg, Germany--have concluded that the Biblical story of Moses parting the rushing waters of the Red Sea so 600,000 Jews could escape slavery by the Egyptians was possible scientifically and in concurrence with the laws of physics, reports Russia's St. Petersburg Times.
Using a system of differential equations, Naum Volzinger, a senior researcher at St. Petersburg's Institute of Oceanology, and his Hamburg-based colleague Alexei Androsov established the conditions under which the waves might have parted. Here's the mathematics behind the miracle: There is a reef in the Red Sea exactly at the documented spot where the Jews escaped Egypt. In ancient times, the reef was unbroken and much closer to the surface of the sea than it is today. The Bible story cites the "strong east wind that blew all that night." So mathematically, the two scientists considered wind speed, the strength of the storm that would leave the reef high and dry at low tide, how long before the waters returned, and how quickly they returned. Volzinger, who specializes in ocean phenomena, flooding, and tidal waves, calculated that the wind had to have blown at a sustained speed of 67 miles per hour to make the reef. Once the reef formed, he told the St. Petersburg Times, "It would take the Jews--there were 600,000 of them--four hours to cross the 4.2-mile reef that runs from one coast to another. Then, in half an hour, the waters would come back."
The story says that when the Egyptian army followed them into the Red Sea, they drowned. "I am convinced that God rules the Earth through the laws of physics," he said. The study, which took almost six months to complete is titled "Modeling of the Hydrodynamic Situation During the Exodus" and has been published in the Bulletin of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Mark Grubarg, the head of the Jewish community in St. Petersburg, said the spiritual value of this miracle is immense for Jews. "

just for fun..

[alainbryden]

Heathens!!!! You're all going to hell!!! XD

[heyhey11]

I wish

[aleco]

I wish
I really don't think so.

I just don't see how people can believe in something that they have never seen, has never been seen by anyone, has never left any evidence of being, and is in everyway impossible to exist. Not trying to bash it or anything, I just don't get how you can believe that...

How could a God not exist? How could things come into being? How could nature and human and all the other complicated things exist? If it was up to man, we'd all be dead by now. It's possible for a God to exist. You may not understand it, but so much in life is uncomprehendible. I don't see how you can't see it.

And even if there's the whole 'He will come again to judge the living and the dead'... if he sends people to hell because they don't believe in him, he has pretty bad tastes :?.

Bad tastes? Is man good? And how could you judge God? He isn't like humans.

Um.....I don't know what to say now.....I'll think of something.

[Cenright]

I could get into thins, but it would take hours to get anywhere. I'm on of Jahovah's Witnesses, so although I am still a christian religion, my opinions differ greatly from almost all of yours.

[87x]

basically nothing is fact.. all theorys.. how can anyone believe anything?

[Jello]

the whole universe is based upon theories. you truly cant prove any of the force laws of physics.. even though calculations work, we still cant see atoms. all of science is pretty much theory. it works. but even we dont know alot about the universe. I still stand on my point that jesus might have been just an ordinary guy who by luck escaped death after crusifiction, yet on the other hand there sure as hell seem to be alot of things that move toward him being the mesiah. although i dont really believe in him. im not doubting anything untill im dead.

[makaveli121212]

87x did you really have any fact behind this before you posted...you said someone told you...did you even think of verifying this before you began to try and degredate many peoples beliefs

[87x]

i didn't really degrade anything.., i was asking how religion would change if this was proven true.. and if you read my first post i had a link to a site with an article about it.. i based my opinions off that.. and if you read oneof my other post its says i could go either way with this.. im not sure if it is true so i could argue against it on lack of facts... and i could argue with it based on that they found the documents stating that this happened...

*EDIT*
sorry i forget to edit my first post and put the link on there. but lightdarknes provided the link before i could so its in his post..

[makaveli121212]

ok i didnt see the link before either so...thanks for clearing that up there...

[Varia]

Religious people refuse to believe that life could just appear, or happen, or whatever. But, they will believe that God was always there, always will be and he made everything. It's like the whole chicken or the egg thing.

Furthermore, if Jesus was the child of rape, then who is to say that Mary was even holy? Maybe the guard was. Man juice to the extreme.

[alainbryden]

ok i didnt see the link before either so...thanks for clearing that up there...


Not that I disagree with the possibility, but just because someone made the news about it, doesn't make it much more justifiable a statement ;)

[87x]

well... i claim the news to be a higher level of acceptance than someone telling me something.. because no news source likes to get proven wrong.. thats just bad publicity.. so they research on topics, and get actual information.. its not a he said she said thing.. its an actual source that is rarely wrong.. but with this.. since they are so vague about the facts... and also they have so little facts.. it doesn't really state anything more than the topic this thread... but.. yea..

[makaveli121212]

well, if one of friends told me that, i would definately do some research before i posted it because it really can degredate a religion...so i think that providing a link is the least 87x could have done and defiinatley shows that he looked into it first...of course we know 75% of all stuff on the interent is made up crapso we just have to judge for ourselves here...strange though that i didnt see any news on cnn or anything if this was a new breakthrough here

[alainbryden]

Lots of news companies are so popular because of their austentatious proposals.

[Moogy]

I was trying to think of a joke about Fox News' "fair and balanced" thing to put here, but I couldn't.

[alainbryden]

point noted. XD

[LeneiaBlackheart]

I always thought that maybe mary screwed someone else, and because she wouldn't do it with joe and somehow ended up pregnant,she said god was the father so she could get away with cheating.Also the whole three wise men thing,they were shepards right? Well, there were sheep at the barn where she had the love child.The wise men's sheep could've just been looking for mates and led them there. Also all the "incense" and liquid in their pouch could've had something to do with the angel gabriel and the fact that it was proven that they were actually following the north star. How they thought that was an angel,I have no clue...had to be high on something...I know being in church when i was younger, that incense got me very dizzy and high. The bible has alot of false things in it....now don't say I'm starting a flamewar,its just my opinion....

[Mandragora]

Anticrombie, I saw Life of Brian. It's hilarious, if that answers your question.

Also heyhey, how can you claim to believe in a monotheistic God and deny His omnipotence? The situation presents itself as impossible.

[87x]

strange though that i didnt see any news on cnn or anything if this was a new breakthrough here

it was posted dec 23 of 2002.... its not going to be on cnn as anything late breaking..

[SephirothFF7]

Here's my view on gods, the human psyche is too weak to handle the fact that we actually are in control of our own fate. So now, over these thousands and thousands of years a genetic NEED for a god has developed, this has been proven. Pretty much we've dug ourself a giant pit of nonsense...Here's another controvercial story about Jesus. You know why the church never talks about his childhood????? Because it wasn't pretty. In one tale during Mary and Joesephs travel to Nazareth Jesus went out to play with some of the villages children. Jesus made a bird out of clay, suddenly it came to life and started flying around. The other children started laughing at him, and he killed them all, all 21.

[jewpinthethird]

Not to mention Jesus pushing his friend off of a roof, thus killing him. When everyone began to scold Jesus for doing what he did, he brought his friend back to life. Saying "What did I do that was so bad" in a know it all tone.

[pixieboy175]

"A Catholic bishop today criticised a British television documentary that suggests the Virgin Mary may have been raped by a Roman soldier."
I cant be mad at the bishop I mean If i had proof in my hands that said Mary was raped and back then they didnt really have that much info on rape at the time (bc) So how does this guy have the evidence

[jewpinthethird]

Really, there is no evidence...yet.

[SephirothFF7]

I sware if jewpin turns out to be god i'm gonna be pissed...not suprised at all...but pissed, unless i get to be Jesus...