Mankind is degrading

[Benny1]

I mean in a mental sense.

I've been talking about this with reach a lot recently, and figured it would belong more here htan chit-chat.

What really bothers me is people who really just assume they already know it all. I can't really put it right, so I have to use an example, it's maybe a bit exxagerated, but it's the best I have. I told a friend about the space elevator (I posted an article about it earlier in chit-chat). He immediatly told me it was impossible. I asked him, why. He did not give me a single good reason for why it was impossible. All of his statements were ignorant, and not what I wanted to hear at all. And this kid I told it to is considered a fairly deep thinker by the standards of my school. What bothered me a lot about this is I gave him an article with how it could happen, and he immediatly said that was wrong and impossible. People are losing their ability to consider something that is vast, or unimaginable. I think, this is kind of like a Great Wall of China, something that seems rediculous at the time, but it ends up happening. The Great Wall didn't need any power tools to build, and they didn't have precut rocks. They did all of the labor, and it happened, and I am sure there are people who thought such a vast seeming project would be impossible. But you can see it now, it is still there, proof that the impossible is possible.

Secondly, this is more of a complain on he grading system of any school and IQ. IQ is very unreliable, and anyone who really takes an IQ test to see if they are very smart or not is probably getting wrong results. For a proper IQ test to be done well, it would need to be completely broad and cover everything in a subject, or incredibly precise, and cover everything in a subject the same way. Those kind of questions are basically unwritable. Also, with standardized testing, which seems to be the new rage, you run into many problems. I got some results from the big Illinois standardized test from 8th grade a few days ago. I got a perfect score on the math portion of the test. What bothers me though is it didn't test for anything but knowledge of how to do this and this. But there was no thinking involved. Standardized tests require no thinking. They are trying to train us to be robots that answer everything with no thought.
The funny thing is, a few days before this idea really sparked, in lit we read an article about how many ap classes are only covering the general, nonthinking knowledge, and then when they need to thinkin college, they have massive problems. This is proving my point perfectly true: standardized tests, or in this case, the AP tests, prove nothing but general knowledge. What does it really mean if you know all of these formulae, and ideas, but you don't know how to apply them, or you cam't understand WHY.
Also, I don't like many reading classes, because in my reading class, there are test questions galore with two answers. They say, Choose the best answer, but if you look at it more than one way, which they encourage a lot, you see both answers are better in a way. This is the problem with human written tests, they have massive flaws like this. Also, trying to have a human grade a paper will never work, as there will be bias.

I guess the title was a bit overboard, but still, people should be thinking more and more nowadays, but rather, with standardized tests, and IQ, people are losing all original thought, and becoming robots.

I am also aware IQ isn't new, I'm just using it right now, as my friends take it, and other people i know take it. I feel IQ is a good idea, it was done wrong though.

I'm sorry about any spelling mistakes, I'm kind of tired, I just don't want to sleep, and had this sitting on my mind ofr a while. I'm curious to see what you all think of this

[Pollux-]

Just today i was thinking about going to the moon and how they should build a big tube up to the moon.

[Varia]

I have felt this way all throughout my time in school. The people in smart classes aren't really that smart. Many of them cheat, copy, and lie to get their grades.

There was a topic about this a while ago by Reach, I think. Basically, it stated that in schools today, there is no real emphasis on critical thinking. The main focus is doing the work.

I have also never liked literature classes. I am a fairly good writer, but when it came to the assignments where there were extremely large amount of obvious bias, I did not do well. I always received poor grades on things like poems, and other types of writing where you are supposed to present your thoughts on something in a media type form. I think a large part of it was the teachers I had. In high school, two of them were around 30 years old and totally into their jobs. They read for fun and blahblahblah. In senior year, I had my first male English teacher. One of the coolest teachers ever. I don't really remember where I was going to take this, so I'm going to stop.

I'll end things simply by saying Benny is right.

[Omeganitros]

Everyone should watch the beginning of The Gods Must Be Crazy.

[Reach]

Lol.

People have always said things were impossible. 'It can't be done', and then it happens. Saying it can't be done sets oneself up for failure. I see it in school. People that think lowly of themselves do bad. If you think highly of yourself, you will do good. I had a 86 in highschool geography? What do I have now? 99.9%. I didn't get any smarter. I changed my mindset.

Standardized tests and IQ's are more or less a joke, because they are misunderstood and used to measure the wrong things. An IQ test isn't an intelligence test. The SAT is NOT an intelligence test. It's more or less all designed to push capitalism. The entire purpose is to seperate people and put them into groups. But the groups are often and almost always mislabeled, potential is wasted and or not understood. You don't need to be able to think to do well really. You need to do exactly what you've been told.

[akorn]

I don't see the problem with standardized tests... it's a method as good as any to measure people's aptitude on different subjects. Obviously, more intelligent students will have a higher score, so there's a correlation, but the SAT isn't designed to test people's intelligence anyway.

IQ tests, as the name suggests, test your intelligence quotient, it doesn't give you a numeric value proportional to your intelligence. In the end you get a number which is either above or below the mean (100), and how much you deviate from it (standard deviation for IQ is 15) tells you how many ppl are more or less intelligent than you in the general population. To be honest, I don't see how you can say it isn't an intelligence test... Sure, it separates people into groups, but so does height, and they both follow the same distribuction (a gauss curve).

Btw Reach, having a positive or negative mindset doesn't mean you'll always do better or worse... Sure, it has some influence, but in the end its a mix of work and inate ability that matter. To give an extreme example, if someone is mentally retarded, he's bound to have worse results at school than normal people, cause he isn't as intelligent. There's always some variation of characteristics between people (this applies for physical as well as mental attributes), and in the end some people will never do as good as others, no matter how hard they try.

[Reach]

I don't see the problem with standardized tests... it's a method as good as any to measure people's aptitude on different subjects. Obviously, more intelligent students will have a higher score, so there's a correlation, but the SAT isn't designed to test people's intelligence anyway.

IQ tests, as the name suggests, test your intelligence quotient, it doesn't give you a numeric value proportional to your intelligence. In the end you get a number which is either above or below the mean (100), and how much you deviate from it (standard deviation for IQ is 15) tells you how many ppl are more or less intelligent than you in the general population. To be honest, I don't see how you can say it isn't an intelligence test... Sure, it separates people into groups, but so does height, and they both follow the same distribuction (a gauss curve).

Btw Reach, having a positive or negative mindset doesn't mean you'll always do better or worse... Sure, it has some influence, but in the end its a mix of work and inate ability that matter. To give an extreme example, if someone is mentally retarded, he's bound to have worse results at school than normal people, cause he isn't as intelligent. There's always some variation of characteristics between people (this applies for physical as well as mental attributes), and in the end some people will never do as good as others, no matter how hard they try.

>_<

You fail to understand the basic concept that it is not an intelligence test. You're a perfect example of someone who's mindset has been hardwired to believe that it does.

What is intelligence? Please, define it for me. You can't? EXACTLY. (If you looked up a dictionary definition you missed the point entirely)

Thus, IQ tests are not fair. They are a waste, and are destructive. What the hell is the IQ test measuring? The ability to do well on the specific questions asked? How does that constitute one's intelligence? What about situational intelligence? Why do IQ scores go up with schooling? Why does it go up if you study the types of questions asked?

The benit and wechsler tests are a joke. They're measures of what you've learned XD Not even in an overall picture. They're very specific. They are by no means a measure of true capacity for high level thinking or how much you really know.

You can even go as far as to say the questions themselves are unfair. How can you ask a relational question? It's invalid. There are infinite number of anwsers. Why should the anwser the test designer chose be the correct anwser?

IQ tests merely measure an extremely specific region of one's ability.

As for the SAT, lol! More INTELLIGENT students will do better? Are you kidding me? Look at the questions on the test. I didn't have to write the SAT, but after looking at some of the problems from the SAT I laughed. They're ALL directly related to questions you get in your math class. That and the english questions are fairly irelevant to your intelligence half the time. Why would knowing the definition of a word make you more intelligent? What if I understand how stars form? Why isn't that on the test? Pulling a word noone uses out of the dictionary like that is like doing...just that.

And we all know school grades don't relate to your intelligence. If you think so, you are highly mistaken. If they arn't, and the sat is related to what you have LEARNED in school, how is it an intelligence test? That's right. It's not.

I see right through these tests. They're useless(on a personal level), and invalid. This is also coming from someone with a high IQ and 96ish% average in all extremely high level courses. Am I more intelligent than you? Possibly. Based solely on my test scores? Of course not! Only small minds that don't want to degrade their achievements will tell you otherwise.


Oh and, yes akorn, not everyone has the same ability. Point being, EVERYONE has the ability to improve upon what they do have. Especially in school, which is not about your mental ability. If you try as hard as you possibly can and learn to play the game of school, you can come out a winner. Most of these 'learning disabilities' may be more environmental than anything, not because they didn't have the ability to begin with. There are always extremes, like being born with a small brain or unable to comprehend the most simple tasks. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm sick of wasted potential. People THINK they can't do things. This is where mindset comes into play. They assume grades are something that is 'set' and unchangeable, and accept it. They THINK they are less intelligent, and thus do not work hard in school and learn the required skills needed to do well in life. What, do you think that girl with 100% in all her classes just magically walked in and got those grades? Do you think Mozart just sat at the piano and played a masterpiece on his first attempt? Do you think Einstein just 'came up with' relativity instantly? That's not how things work. These people worked hard for what they wanted, and used the talents they were given. Understanding how they really do work is the basis to begin changing things and getting what you want. Nothing is set in stone. :p

I'm done for now.

[Lightknight924]

Can't your IQ be based upon how hard you try. I mean, if I for on quater of the school year decided to do my extreme hardest to achieve 100% Overall Average for the quater then does that mean I got smarter? No, it means I tried harder. A lot harder.

[akorn]

Your post seems to revolve around the idea that inteligence is some kind of esoteric concept, that can't be put into words and has no way of being analised. Look at it this way though:

As you may know, Einstein's brain was preserved for scientific study... I think we can reasonably admit that Einstein was an intelligent guy. What they found is that, anatomically, there was no difference between his cerebral cortex and a normal brain. They did find that nervous support cells (glia) were more abundant than normal, but how that relates to cerebral function is unknown. So intelligence isn't something anotomical.

Biochemically, there is a process in which synaptic formation and neurotransmitter transfer are facilitated when that particular pathway suffers frequent use, which makes that synapse "stronger", in simple terms. This process is widely regarded as the foundation for learning. So maybe intelligence is the frequency this process is called upon.. But I digress, my point was that everyone has some grasp on the concept, you don't need an actual definition to talk about it.

When you answer an IQ test (not that I'm defending IQ tests, I just think your view on them is wrong), you answer those questions, and whether you get the answer right or wrong is determined by, as you said, schooling, having made IQ tests before, the relative answer the testmaker picked, the way the moonlight is being reflected by that pond to your left, causing you to misread question number 23... and a wacky ability some people have of getting the answers right by thinking about them.

If you had an ideal situation (where all the other factors involved were somehow removed.. like having 2 ppl with the same upbringing, same teachers, same age, never touched an IQ test before, etc) all that would influence the result would be intelligence, and that's what the IQ tests aim to quantify.It's not perfect, but despite all the bias and problems it has (some of which you mentioned), it works.

If your point is that IQ tests are nothing more than a group of questions that sort people into a statistical distribution according to the results, thats ok.. but those results are, ultimately, correlated with one's intelligence.

About SATs, I wouldn't know since I've never done any (I don't live in the US). I imagine getting a good grade on them probably means that you've studied hard rather than being extremely bright. My point is that someone who is more intelligent has a bigger potential scorewise, as in, if he worked just as hard as the guy next to him, since he has an easier time learning/relating things, his score will be better. See my point?

You mentioned that I've been hardwired as to how IQ tests are a measure of intelligence. Maybe you've hardwired the opposite by your own reasoning and logic. That doesn't mean it's true.

Last thing (phew long post). I consider myself to be a logical and intelligent person, also with a high IQ and whatnot (and dont assume this is based on web IQ test or something), I also finished high school with a 19.1 average for the college I applied for (20 is the max, that's 95.5%) but, as you say, academic achievements aren't a reflection of intelligence. You say that you're possibly more intelligent than me? (sorry, I couldn't let this one slide though I wanted to :P ) well, since there's no way to measure intelligence (according to you), we'll never know.

[Benny1]

I'm really bad at wording things so this post might not flow all to well.

So Akorn, if Einstien's brain was not any different, you just dug yourself in a hole. You just proved IQ is not how smart you are, it is how well you have set your mind to learn things. If you choose to learn, you have a high IQ. If you choose not to learn, you have a low IQ. You just proved exactly how IQ is bs. And standardized tests are bs because you don't need to think, you just need to have the mindset to absorb knowledge. All of your knowledge is based off of your mindset. I have a great mindset for most of my classes, and what am I getting? A B+ in basically everything, and an A- in a math class that is TWO YEARS AHEAD OF WHAT I NORMALLY TAKE. I tell myself, I can do this, and you know, I memorized all of the thereoms I need to use. Everyone else has their thereom sheets to say what the thereoms are. I had a good mindset and memorized them all. I didn't even try. I can tell you right now, the two thereoms I heard once for the first time today are totally set in my head. The median of an isoceles trapezoid is the average of the top and bottom. Base angles are congruent on an isoceles trapezoid. Oh, also, the diagonals are congruent. This is the result of a good mindset, and trying to learn this stuff. If I had a bad mindset, and said, eh I can't do this, I would not know those, I can garuntee you.

The only class I have a bad grade in is lit. And I hate my teacher too. She is the kind of teacher who tells you exactly what you need to do to get an A, you do a bit more than that, and she gives you a D (I have had this happen to me twice now from her). This is what makes makes any lit standardized test obsolete: Humans grade erroneously all the time. If they were handed a perfect paper (thereoticially) they could possibly give it a D, because it just wasn't what they wanted.

Akorn, Einstein failed classes. Are you saying you are smarter than Einstein?

[jewpinthethird]

The people in smart classes aren't really that smart. Many of them cheat, copy, and lie to get their grades.

I have noticed this too. At my old high school there was no Advanced Placement. Instead, we had the "International Baccalaureate Programme;" IB for short. Most of my friends were in the program, as was I and I know for a fact that almost everyone in the program cheated, including myself, save for a handful of people. Mind you, this is just a mere reflection of our how our economy is run. Yes, those who work hard do recieve a better grade, but so do those who cheat. If someone manages to get caught cheating there are consequences, but only a small percentage of people ever get caught.

The problem with the educational system in America is that it is run like a business. Schools benefit (by increased government funding) when their students get higher test scores, that is why so my emphasis is placed on test taking. Thus making the goal of the administration profit (in a sense), and not the education of their students. This is also why so much money is spent on sports (mainly football) because sports bring in a lot of revenue. Which ironically is spent on my football equipment.

Just so you know, I am merely rephrasing what Albert Einstein wrote in his essay entitled "Why Socialism." Only, I am speaking from personal experience.

[Benny1]

Okay, great, I love this analogy I just thought of.

So you can't define intelligence, yet we try to measure it in IQ.
IQ could be the totally wrong thing.
It's like trying to measure weight in centimeters, it's impossible.

[akorn]

I knew someone would come back with the "Einstein was bad at school" stuff xD

Einstein's brain wasn't any different from a histological (look it up) point of view. It was made of the same exact stuff your brain and mine is made of. His IQ, however, was very high (noone argues with this I think), as in, he was much more intelligent that the average person. What I wanted to get across in this example is that intelligence isn't measuerd by what your brain is made of. The difference between a smart brain and a dumb brain is in the interconnections made by neuronal axons and dendrites, but that's neuroanatomy and I don't want to go there.

If you choose to learn, you have a high IQ. If you choose not to learn, you have a low IQ.
I didn't understand whether ou got that from my post or just posted it. Either way, if that was true, Einstein wouldn't be a genius since he failed classes, but I'm sure you can agree he had a high IQ. This would show on an IQ test regardless of him flunking literature lessons or not xD

[Benny1]

I told you I would word stuff wrong.

I basically just wrote that, based off of Reach's mindset stuff. And you know, although he did npt learn in school, he definetly chose to apply himself afterwards. He didn't just quit after school. Trust me, you don't discover such increidble things like the therory of relativity without applying yourself. Thus, he applied himself after school (chose to learn) and became one of the smartest people ever.

[Reach]

Intelligence isn't definable. Not yet anyway. The point still stands, we don't know what we're measuring with IQ tests. Jewpin brought up some good points.

Schooling just isn't intelligence based. That's a fact. Noone can argue. Oh and wait, IQ scores go up with schooling? Why is this? Because school boosts and trains your ability in SPECIFIC areas. Yet you claim IQ tests to measure one's intelligence? How well the brain works...what about the other areas?

The easiest way to define intelligence would be: 'the ability to solve problems'.

But this requires you to define problems. It is again, something vast. There are many types of problems.

And yes akorn, It's very possible I could be smarter than you. This wasn't some sort of insult though, as you seem to have taken it by your little not in brackets. The fact is, my test scores don't measure my intelligence. So obviously yes, we will never know.

''other regions on each side were a bit enlarged—the inferior parietal lobes. These regions are known to have something to do with visual imagery and mathematical thinking. Thus Einstein was apparently better equipped than most people for a certain type of thinking.''

''You mentioned that I've been hardwired as to how IQ tests are a measure of intelligence. Maybe you've hardwired the opposite by your own reasoning and logic. That doesn't mean it's true. ''

Sure it doesn't mean it's true. But then why do the people making these tests still not properly understand them? Why did the woman with the highest IQ score ever admit that it's measurement was not a proper or near complete representation of one's intelligence? An IQ test measures specific abilities, cognitive, spatial ect...and we know these are very specific abilities. Since when was intelligence something this specific? If you score high on an IQ test, you probably have good abilities in THESE AREAS. It doesn't mean the rest of your brain is working up to par, or above someone else's that is better in other areas.

It doesn't work.

''If you had an ideal situation (where all the other factors involved were somehow removed.. like having 2 ppl with the same upbringing, same teachers, same age, never touched an IQ test before, etc) all that would influence the result would be intelligence, and that's what the IQ tests aim to quantify.It's not perfect, but despite all the bias and problems it has (some of which you mentioned), it works. ''

No. Wrong again. The IQ test questions measure small portions of one's ability.



Here, this is what you are saying. A perfect analogy.

I am good at games. You are good at games. You can beat me at stepmania, thus this makes you a better gamer.

This is an untrue statement, no matter which way you look at it. Even if you try and change the definition of intelligence. It's NOT a specific thing. It's an overall ability that applies to EVERYTHING. IQ tests measure abilities in areas. It would be just like the analogy above.

So your IQ is 190 and mine is 101. You could say...your skills at performing on tests, cognitive, spatial, memory, math and vocabulary skills are better than mine. This doesn't mean, you could think at a higher level than me, be more creative than me, know more than me, understand and play music better than me, solve puzzles better than me, play sports better than me, debate better than me, solve mazes faster than me.... I could go on forever.

Oh and yes, that means I don't think we'll ever be able to truely measure intelligence.

[Reach]

Some things I found interesting:

''University of California at Berkley educational psychologist Arthur Jensen, Ph.D., wrote that beyond one standard deviation above the mean (an IQ score of around 115), "the IQ level becomes relatively unimportant in terms of ordinary occupational aspirations and criteria of success."

Oh and

''Where IQ tests are less useful is in making meaningful distinctions between different IQ levels at the extremes of ability, both above and below the mean, but especially the former. This is due in part to the decreasing discrimination between subtest scale scores at the extremes of performance. For example, on the Vocabulary subtest of the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-III, (this subtest correlates more strongly with overall intellectual ability than the other 12 subtests), the raw score difference between a scale score of 10 and 13, which represents a one standard deviation difference, is 7-10 points for a 16-year old; while the difference between a scale score of 16 and 19, which is also a one standard deviation difference, but two to three standard deviations above the mean, is only three points. Correct responses on the Vocabulary subtest are scored as either one or two points, depending on the quality of the response. Using Wechsler's system of classification, the difference between Average and High Average intelligence on this subtest may reflect a difference of as much as 5-10 correct responses; while the difference between Superior and Very Superior intelligence may reflect a difference of only two correct responses. The latter is hardly a substantial difference, and at the higher levels of IQ, not a particularly meaningful one. ''

Laff. I've been saying this for forever...IQ really becomes udderly meaningly after 115-130 because they really arn't measuring anything inportant because of how the bell curve works.

The bell curve works as 100 being the average. This however does NOT mean that the average number of questions anwsered correctly is half of the total questions.

The average would probably be closer to 65-75% of the questions correctly as an average. So that means, say if you got 85/100, your iq might show up as 115. 90/100, 130. 95/100, 160. 100/100 , 200. How is this meaningful? This works the same as often unfair testing in school. A lot of weight is put onto very little, which is in essence meaningless. And they can't make the tests too long...because then it again becomes unfair.

Intelligence...It really can't be measured.



Oh and, apparently Einstiens IQ wasn't even high. He was NEVER tested. That and, had he been tested at a young age, he would have done horribly.

''Einstein, for example: as a child, he was delayed in speech and was a poor student who dropped out of school at one point and failed to pass the entrance examination for admission to the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich. He was eventually admitted after retaking the examination two years latter, and graduated, but was unable to obtain a university teaching position, and went to work instead as an assistant technical clerk in the patent office in Bern, Germany. Einstein was well on his way to what appeared to be an entirely uneventful and undistinguished career. Using the same method that Cox did to rate geniuses based on their behavior and performance either in childhood or young adulthood up to the age of 26, Einstein would have received one of the lowest IQ scores on her list of geniuses.

Einstein's IQ is unknown. It has never been tested''


Oh, and we also have the flynn effect. IQ scores are going up!! They are constantly resetting tests and making them more difficult to reset the average score.

I WONDER WHY!?!?!?!

MAYBE BECAUSE OF BETTER EDUCATION, BETTER UPBRINGING WHERE EDUCATION AND MARKS ARE TOP PRIORITY, AND OVERALL, THINGS THAT IMPROVE SCORES ON THESE TYPES OF QUESTIONS!??!?!

If you still havn't figured it out...well, I give up.

But IQ is like a puzzle with most of the pieces still left in the box.

[chickendude]

Schools aren't meant to measure intelligence, or give intelligence or anything like that.

Schools are just where you go to gain general knowledge. Gain knowledge, as in just memorize stuff. Doing well in school means you're putting in effort. How well you do basically depends on how much effort you put in. It makes sense because as somebody famous said (I should know who this is >_>) success is 1% intelligence and 99% hard work. Einstein didn't succeed in many of his classes because he didn't put the work in. He didn't want to. He could have passed if he wanted to. He wasn't bad at school, he just didn't try. He put LOTS of effort into his crazy-awesome theories.

Its the effort that counts the most in many endeavors. School just broadens your choices of what you can put effort into. Its just a knowledge cramming device that puts in histories worth of knowledge accumulated into your head in a few years.

[Lightknight924]

Also, we do not know everything about the brain yet. Some stuff we cannot explain yet.

[lord_carbo]

Might as well join this chat...

The irony of the first page of this article is that the people that can't take the time to think if it really is impossible or not are commenting on something that takes a lot of smarts to accomplish.

About IQ tests, this has always been a complaint to me. People who try to compare my IQ to theirs are usually stupid, and I joke that just by trying to compare someones IQ, I tell them that if they honestly want to compare them, then their IQ probably isn't high enough to know that IQ tests are bull.

Standardized tests over here do require a bit of thought on the open ended portions. It wasn't like this until fourth grade, and before that we took some wierd national test called the Terra Nova, which had no open ended questions.

My literature class isn't like yours, Benny, but when it comes me to English claz, we are learndin stuff 2end grayders R. Just last week we covered punctuation, and a month before that we covered the use of the articles "a" and "an". As if I haven't mastered those two things in 2nd grade, they somehow pop up right now 6 years later, and all these dumb new rules are introduced onto us, and ironically, all of these new rules I learned were the result of me getting a B on the test. I could of used my old knowledge and of gotten an A or an A+ if I didn't make a silly mistake.

[blahblah18]

IQ isn't the point, its intelligence. Intelligence degrades because of how good and cushy society and life is. Its only necessity that breeds greatness. If there's no need to be great, it won't happen. Also, I believe we can use g to measure intelligence, with like the 7 levels of intelligence that is all the new psychological and sociological fad these days. Its not that bad a system. Also with improving medical care governmentally regulated, its juts as easy for "dumb" people to reproduce as "smart" people, so there's no reason to make us "smarter" as a speciesb

[Shopowner200]

People Now are just becoming like drones and shutting off their Minds. If something that seems unreal to people is announced, everyone will quickly shut off their minds and says it is impossible. But then when whatever happens, everyone is just saying Wow! I never thought they could do it!
Example 1:Hurricane Katrina: Bush was alerted back in 2001 that a Hurricane Like Katrina would hit New Orleans. He didn't Believe them, therfore when we got slammed by katrina in september, he was surprised so much he failed to get people their quickly.

[FluorescentArmy]

I believe that we are degrading because we are all so damn lazy. If we weren't so lazy we could probably have flying cars right now. And the school deal with the IQ tests. There is this girl in all of the accelerated classes, along with me, who the stupidest person I have ever met. And she cheats off of people to get good grades. She has this really smart kid, smarter than me, do all of her homework in exchange for some food at lunch. What a freaking idiot. Meh, when I passed that IQ test to get into accelerated classes, I was like 5. I believe that since we humans are sentient beings, we all have the same ability to utilize our brain. The "stupid" or SPEDS, just dont utilize their brains functions properly. Anyways, about SPEDS, In my school the get to sit there, play video games, eat, and watch TV, when us NORMAL students are taking some hard ass test. WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU BE GOING EASY ON THEM. YOU WOULD THINK TO GO HARDER JUST SO THEY DO GET SMARTER. Humans are sofa king retarded. I am going to enjoy the mass genocide of the human race. I think many of you here will too. Hurray 2012!

Back to the topic......
Its like the Grim Reaper show says on Newgrounds, eventually we will achieve perfect society, not in our life time, but then It will be too late. There will be no more animals that aren't in captivity, the aliens would have us for bed slaves, schools would just be a place to go for 8 hours and have fun, and then comes the Apocolypse. Since we are so perfect we would have a million clones of the President incase one dies. And then they will realize what humanity had done to Mother Earth and Russia, and we will all go to hell to server 2 eternities of Damnation. The human race is screwed.

EDIT: Now we are really screwed

[Specforces]

Standardized tests, standardized books, standardized industry, standardized living.

School is like the military, from the beginning they keep you busy. They give you a task, tell you how to do it, tell you when to do it, and tell you to do it. There is no room for intellectual development and creativity is stifled. They teach you how to be "good members of society," tell you not to question things. You are basically sheep in training until you either:

1. Realize it's all a ploy to make you all the same
2. Accept your fate

There are ways to play the system however. These people usually succeed and go on to challenge the system.

Teachers are the system. Teachers are part of business. They teach the same old non-offensive standardized material.

Take columbus for example. At an early age you are taught that this was a good man that discovered America. Obviously wrong if you know anything.

Textbooks too, they print their text with the least offensive, least challenging materials in order to get them approved faster/sold faster/accepted more widely.

It's all a system.

P.S.- You are a moron to blame that on the president. It was the city's responsibility to responsibly use their budget or request more of a budget from the state and the government to fix such a problem. Plus New Orleans has known of the potential problem for years before Bush was ever president, so stop spitting out what you hear your mommy and daddy talk about and get your own opinion you retarded twat.

People Now are just becoming like drones and shutting off their Minds. If something that seems unreal to people is announced, everyone will quickly shut off their minds and says it is impossible. But then when whatever happens, everyone is just saying Wow! I never thought they could do it!
Example 1:Hurricane Katrina: Bush was alerted back in 2001 that a Hurricane Like Katrina would hit New Orleans. He didn't Believe them, therfore when we got slammed by katrina in september, he was surprised so much he failed to get people their quickly.

[somerndmguy]

Righty... this sounds awfully like the lies to children that Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen were talking about...

Apparently, in the "Science of Discworld" I, II, and III, they mentioned that sometimes humans teach others knowledge that is simplified into a manner so that they don't confuse them. Hence the name, because we usually tell children a part of the fact, but never the whole thing in fear of totally confusing them. So we change the facts around slightly to make it sound right. In fact, a lot of the information you hear is probably lies to children.

Mind you, I can't think of any off the top of my head... read the Science of Discworld... it saves me so much time.
I feel so slow now... =(

[Lightknight924]

It's dreaming of the impossible that makes the impossible possible. The idea of a Space Elevator, an elevator stretching from the earth to a space station, or the moon seems very farfetched and very impossible. Is it though? It could be achieved. I'm sure the idea of a car seemed impossible to our primape age.

Or, Like I've read before somewhere around here. We could go down undersea. Where much of our rescources remain. Water, plants, and as a dangerous factor; unknown animals. Only problem is pressure, except that's not unsolvable. So either way. We have many options.

Think of that though, maybe in time we will have cities like New York and Moscow on the moon. "So, where do you work Phil?" "Oh I work on in the Future Tech Department. On the Moon!"

You could wake up every morning, hop onto an elevator.....and whoosh through space. Silly, but awesome if it became a reality.

[Benny1]

Recently in a wired magazine, I saw a think about LOSING IQ points.

One of the things was drop out of high school. You started with 100 IQ Points.
First of all, techinically, with IQ, it should not really be learned, so that idea of losing an IQ point that was is rediculous. Then, if that is true, why do you start with 100. If you started with 100, wouldn't going to high shcool make you go over 100? So shouldn't most of our literate society be above average?

Good job inconsistancy.

[Reach]

Recently in a wired magazine, I saw a think about LOSING IQ points.

One of the things was drop out of high school. You started with 100 IQ Points.
First of all, techinically, with IQ, it should not really be learned, so that idea of losing an IQ point that was is rediculous. Then, if that is true, why do you start with 100. If you started with 100, wouldn't going to high shcool make you go over 100? So shouldn't most of our literate society be above average?

Good job inconsistancy.

Lol. Schooling does make your IQ go up *gasp*. It's not as genetic as we would like to think. As I recall the average person gains 2-3 IQ points for each year of schooling! Why do you think the japanese and koreans average IQ's around 110?

The whole "flynn" effect which has caused some controversy isn't that complicated of an issue in my eyes. We arn't that much smarter. We're better at taking the flawed IQ test due to environmental factors. I do think the test is a good predictor of mental ability to a point. It predicts the lower end of the spectra better than the higher end. There is no real data to support the fact IQ's of over 115-130 mean anything as the tests were not designed to judge people above that area. Some people have *tried* to develop super hard IQ tests to measure high intelligence, but they are just as flawed.

[Gelsamel]

Recently in a wired magazine, I saw a think about LOSING IQ points.

One of the things was drop out of high school. You started with 100 IQ Points.
First of all, techinically, with IQ, it should not really be learned, so that idea of losing an IQ point that was is rediculous. Then, if that is true, why do you start with 100. If you started with 100, wouldn't going to high shcool make you go over 100? So shouldn't most of our literate society be above average?

Good job inconsistancy.


..... the older you are the better you have to score on IQ tests to keep the same number. IE. at 16 you get 150? If you don't do any work in school you'll probably drop by the age of 18 even if you answer everything exactly the same.

After reading half of these posts and people side tracking people who were already side tracked off the topic I felt sorry for you all. I stopped at the post I quoted above.

As for the space lift I don't think it is possible. Media esp. Internet has been known for it's bull**** content and without delving deep into the situation (since I'm a lazy ass mf, and I couldn't careless) I wouldn't put any weight into it.

If it does happen good for you. You can sit in an elevator for a few days while you slowly climb up through the atmosphere. (Or if they decide that is too long then you could just get training from NASA and go up in the elevator pulling 20gs)

As for IQ I think it's done wrong. It should be a measurement of logic. Not inteligent. Ie. you goto school and you work hard you get smarter? But has your logic increased? Nope. I think that is static from when you are born. Logic.. hard to explain but say if you weren't given the formula for an equation and you had to figure it out, how easily you figured it out just from your own intuition would be logic (probably the best example I've seen -and done- of these are in Vector Equations).

At the moment I'm cruising through school (exept English damn you!) pretty easily without doing work. But I've always been a really quick learner. (And no I don't cheat).


PS: Just FYI I scored 158 on my IQ test >.>;.

[Hr2]

I personally do not believe that mankind is degrading and it is simply that the majority of people will always think the same way. The majority of people will always say what looks impossible is impossible. It is just how things are.

As for IQ, you've mentioned all kinds of reasons why it can't be adequately measured, I agree. For the Flynn Effect, another factor could be increased nutrition as an infant.

As for being able to determine your intelligence through "Working hard" I disagree with completely. Will you be less intelligent if you don't work, yes. Will you be smarter if you do, yes. Can you become a genius by setting your mind to it? No. Some people are genetically predisposed. I remember reading an article about a baroque composer who composed over 5000 fugues, yet none of them were good even though he worked very hard on composing. This proves that genius musical composition is genetic, and is obviously not just a practice thing. I believe this would be true for many things, including logic and general intelligence.

As for standardized tests, I think they are a FAR better measure than school performance but not comprehensive by any means. I used to do very well in school, but lately I have been doing very poorly. It isn't even for lack of understanding or work, I have simply been doing worse. School grades are a combination of 4 factors, in this order

Work + Memory + Intelligence + Obedience

You need to work hard in school to get good grades, simple as that. Many things in school are exercises in memory (yay mine is subpar), and having a photographic memory guarantees you good grades. Intelligence is a supplement to grades for those who are in advanced courses. Obedience and doing what the teacher wants is another thing, especially in English classes. Sometimes you have to lie about your true views for a grade on an essay, but thats how it goes.

I just hope getting grades slightly below what I normally get doesn't hurt my college prospects.

I know that they say learning is physically your brain forming links with neurons. Therefore, some people must be born with a brain that forms these links faster, or simply more links at a time. We can see this with other physical processes in our body, such as metabolism. I for example, rarely gain weight.

I think that everything is related to genetics, but people who believe genetic factors are set in stone are wrong (well obviously not gentic disorders and such, but intelligence, weight, things like that) because you CAN force your body to change.

[kickassbuddy]

I made a similar idea. Don't you see how racism is starting up again? I'm sorry, it's just that I have a thing about racism. In the past, the constant "whites and blacks" were a problem, but it is fixed. But now, its "all against Asians", and it seems the government is not checking up on it. In most Southern schools, racism is a big thing, for, not to be racist myself, Mexicans are going like ching-ching and Jackie Chan on us Asians. What did Asians do wrong? What we did was work hard and build parts for video games, HDTVS, and stuff like that. Asians are leaders of Nintendo and Sony, which is big stuff in the gaming industry. Many of us in America become rich and smart so that we can go to Ivy-League colleges (my parents are trying to send me to MIT for summer school). Tihs is leads me up to the point, it seems that over the past years, in the beginning, the Southern USA didn't follow the creed "All men were created equal." And over the years they changed that. Now, people in the Southern USA are falling back to the same problem, but with a different target. Can we just all shut the **** up and just follow the creed "All men were created equal"?

[Reach]

''Can you become a genius by setting your mind to it? No.''

HAH. False.

If you take a real good look at most genius in the world, these people have pushed themselves to the absolute limit of sanity before acheiving what they believe in.

I agree, some people are born superior to others, obviously. Some people have more talent and abilities than other people; it's an undeniable fact. However, genius is rarely something that just happens. People that do something truely great in this world dedicate their lives to doing it. Mozart didn't just sit down and write 500 masterpieces. He was ****ing beaten as a child and practiced day in and day out until he was absolutely flawless. It would have NEVER happened if he didn't put his mind to it. A self fullfilling prophecy; something I strongly believe in.

It's pretty amazing what the mind can do if you really do truely put your mind to it. It helps to have a mental advantage over other people, and how you were raised is a big KEY factor too...but you ultimately control your destiny. People talk about how famous composers can hear what they write in his head before he wrote it. A gift? I couldn't hear anything until I started music lessons. Now I write my own music and can indeed, hear what I what to play in my head. It doesn't just come to you. You bring it out of yourself.

Gelsamel...lol. You would get up into space just as fast as the space shuttle with the elevator. You wouldn't be standing like a traditional elevator. G-force is created by acceleration. Contrary to popular belief - you only experience about 4 g's on the space shuttle; the equilivant of the launch on the hulk roller coaster in orlando flordia.

It's not really a question of wether it is possible or not...because it is possible. The real question is will there be enough funding and such put into it. It would be beneficial - that way all real launches could be from the moon which...well, if you know anything about the cost of launching something into space, it would cut it down dramatically.


"I personally do not believe that mankind is degrading and it is simply that the majority of people will always think the same way. The majority of people will always say what looks impossible is impossible. It is just how things are."

Just because it's the way things are doesn't mean it's not degrading. Geeze...back in the day it wasn't out of the normal to hang people under accusations for being a witch. It's official - man kind is degrading and probably always will be...atleast on some scale.

PS: it's official that the SAT is a piece of ****. It just is a crock of ass.

[aperson]

I just noticed this thread and read Benny's post. Benny, you're at that formative phase in life with an interesting duality: You're at the point where you feel that you're above society, but that age is the same time where societal-minded thinking and group-need starts to develop. Your new experiences and changed mental outlook are causing you to feel this way, but really, you'll grow out of it:

Mankind isn't any different, your perception is just changing. Congratulations, you're on the path to wisdom like everyone else. In a few years you'll become aware of how sparse, arbitrary, and dalliant your perception is and learn to laugh at things like this.

I figured Reach would be smart enough to not get so riled up over this though

[Porkbutts]

I remember a smart quote: "Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens"

I think intelligence isn't as much of an ideal amount or number, but more as a rate at which one gains knowledge. The more intelligence you have just means you'll take in things faster. That doesn't mean someone is smarter than you are. Thats why people achieve great things in life. It's because they work hard and that overcomes intelligence.

Mindset leads to working harder, working harder leads to better results. that's confidence.

Mindset leads to arrogance, arrogance leads to lazyness and failure.
that's overconfidence.

What i like best though is that, all people are created different, and people are always going to be people. No one is ever more right than the other. People just have different opinions, and those opinions are either more widely or less accepted by society.

[Porkbutts]

Oh, and I think people say things are impossible is because they're used to that kind of reality. People have abandoned those cinderella movies and other disney movies, where there are always happy endings.

More accepted genres are those of reality: depicting that the world really is f*cked up, and that you don't get everything you want. Cuz, thats the way most of the world is. People try to hide it, but its there. There are people starving every day. Those pair of jeans your wearing are made for like half a cent in Taiwan or India, and sold for 12 dollars here in america. Because of this kind of stuff, people are used to bad news, people are used to put downs. It's a habit, so its hard to accept news that deviates from what they're used to hearing. Like if you heard you just won a million dollars, wouldn't you be skeptical?

[Gelsamel]

''Can you become a genius by setting your mind to it? No.''

HAH. False.

If you take a real good look at most genius in the world, these people have pushed themselves to the absolute limit of sanity before acheiving what they believe in.

I agree, some people are born superior to others, obviously. Some people have more talent and abilities than other people; it's an undeniable fact. However, genius is rarely something that just happens. People that do something truely great in this world dedicate their lives to doing it. Mozart didn't just sit down and write 500 masterpieces. He was ****ing beaten as a child and practiced day in and day out until he was absolutely flawless. It would have NEVER happened if he didn't put his mind to it. A self fullfilling prophecy; something I strongly believe in.

I think you've totally missed his point there. He means that if you don't have the natural skill in you to become a genius then you can't become one no matter how much you try. He didn't say that if you have to natural skill to become a genius then you don't have to work at all.

Gelsamel...lol. You would get up into space just as fast as the space shuttle with the elevator. You wouldn't be standing like a traditional elevator.

I didn't say it would be either way.

G-force is created by acceleration.

No ****.

Contrary to popular belief - you only experience about 4 g's on the space shuttle; the equilivant of the launch on the hulk roller coaster in orlando flordia.

Actually it's about 6gs. I've never been on a hulk roller coaster - but most roller coasters only go to about 3g. But considering it's "The Hulk" rollercoaster I would expect it to be a bit faster.

It's not really a question of wether it is possible or not...because it is possible. The real question is will there be enough funding and such put into it. It would be beneficial - that way all real launches could be from the moon which...well, if you know anything about the cost of launching something into space, it would cut it down dramatically.

Ah but it is a question about whether it is possible. There are still many unanswered questions. Like collisions? How are they going to get it up there? Think about weather or corrosion? What about terrorism? And for those who've done advanced physics ever though about vibrational harmonics

Btw; Just food for Thought.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ says

"An intelligence quotient or IQ is a score derived from a set of standardized tests developed to measure a person's cognitive abilities ("intelligence") in relation to their age group. An IQ test does not measure intelligence the way a ruler measures height (absolutely), but rather the way a race measures speed (relatively)."

Actually after reading the article a bit more it seems like alot of people in this thread have just been requoting it as their own words. Well at least the first half of the thread where I read upto xD.

Oh well this is getting extremely boring now.

Cya later.

~Gelsamel

Edit: Actually on a last note; Yes it is possible, in a perfect world. But in a perfect world you ignore friction. In a perfect world all mechanical collisions are local. Etc. Otherwise no, not untill they come up with ways to circumvent the imperfections.

[Reach]

Ok, where the hell is the quick quote button?????

''I didn't say it would be either way.''

Ok

"As for the space lift I don't think it is possible. Media esp. Internet has been known for it's bull**** content and without delving deep into the situation (since I'm a lazy ass mf, and I couldn't careless) I wouldn't put any weight into it.

If it does happen good for you. You can sit in an elevator for a few days while you slowly climb up through the atmosphere. (Or if they decide that is too long then you could just get training from NASA and go up in the elevator pulling 20gs"

You did say it. Indirectly, since it's obvious it's not like a building elevator. oh...you were exaggerating. Doesn't change the fact you said it. XD

And I'm not getting riled up over anything ap. I just like the discussion. I also put in " 's anything I directly ripped (that big thing).


Oh and I didn't miss the point. It doesn't matter either way. Regardless of your ability you CAN bring genius out of you. It's in everyone. You just don't have it or you don't. Everyone has it to various degrees in various areas. The hard part is really bringing it out, and for many they never get a chance (poor upbringing ect.) I will not deny the fact that genetics will determine the degree of your genius, since that is fact.



And for the last thought...there are some things on wikipedia on those space elevator issues I just looked up. Or I assume you simply looked up those problems there. I'll paste them here so people can read them.

Corrosion
Corrosion is a major risk to any thinly built tether (which most designs call for). In the upper atmosphere, atomic oxygen steadily eats away at most materials. A tether will consequently need to either be made from a corrosion-resistant material or have a corrosion-resistant coating, adding to weight. Gold and platinum have been shown to be practically immune to atomic oxygen; several far more common materials such as aluminum are damaged very slowly and could be repaired as needed.


Weather
In the atmosphere, the risk factors of wind and lightning come into play. The basic mitigation is location. As long as the tether's anchor remains within two degrees of the equator, it will remain in the quiet zone between the Earth's Hadley cells, where there is relatively little violent weather. Remaining storms could be avoided by moving a floating anchor platform. The lightning risk can be minimized by using a nonconductive fiber with a water-resistant coating to help prevent a conductive buildup from forming. The wind risk can be minimized by use of a fiber with a small cross-sectional area that can rotate with the wind to reduce resistance. Ice forming on the cable also presents a potential problem. It could add significantly to the cable's weight and affect the passage of elevator cars. Also, ice falling from the cable could damage elevator cars or possibly the cable itself.

One reasonably recent result is that high wind speeds can flatten the elevator cable horizontally across the surface of the Earth perhaps a hundred kilometers. Surprisingly, the stress on the cable is not significantly increased (since the elevator is tens of thousands of kilometers long the percentage increase is tiny) and no major damage is predicted.

[edit]
Sabotage
Sabotage is a relatively unquantifiable problem. A space elevator might prove an attractive target for a terrorist or other politically motivated attack. Concern over sabotage may have an effect on location, adding the constraint of avoiding unstable territories to the existing requirement of an equatorial site.


Vibrational harmonics
A final risk of structural failure comes from the possibility of vibrational harmonics within the cable. Like the shorter and more familiar strings of stringed musical instruments, the cable of a space elevator has a natural resonant frequency. If the cable is excited at this frequency, for example by the travel of elevators up and down it, the vibrational energy could build up to dangerous levels and exceed the cable's tensile strength. This can be avoided by the use of suitable damping systems within the cable, and by scheduling travel up and down the cable keeping its resonant frequency in mind. It may even be possible to do damping against Earth's magnetosphere.

A perfect world now will not be the same as a perfect world in the future ;o (hopefully XD)

I would assume the easiest way to avoid terrorism would be isolation (area 51 type deal) without clearance. Anything entering without clearance is shot down.