Infiltration - Postgame

[chardish]

Here's what you've all been waiting for:

Black - MrESqueek
Blue (PATRIOT) - HansSky
Brown - Kilgamayan
Gray - Tasselfoot
Green - Flypie
Indigo - Alain
Magenta - Evilbutterfly
Maroon (PATRIOT) - Blah
Olive - Whorlichan
Orange (PATRIOT) - Guido
Purple - Stretchy
Red - Kefit
Teal - Afrobean
White - Cypher
Yellow - Roopert

I'll post my thoughts in a bit, and also throughout the thread. Good game, but the humans botched it on Day 1 and never recovered.

[Kilgamayan]

oop-c

EDIT: Req the room layout because I'm curious.

[chardish]

I'll post a more detailed game report later, but here you go for now:

A-1 Gas
A-2 Loctr
A-3 Map
A-4 Weapons
A-5 Gas
A-6 NPC-1
A-7 Lock
A-8 Gas

B-1 Combination
B-2 Map
B-3 Hstry
B-4 Loctr
B-5 Hstry
B-6 Messg
B-7 Superloc
B-8 Map

C-1 GHOST
C-2 Lab
C-3 Messg
C-4 Psych
C-5 Hstry
C-6 Lock
C-7 Cmdr
C-8 Swtch

D-1 Lock
D-2 Loctr
D-3 Power
D-4 Valid
D-5 Lock
D-6 Valid
D-7 Seer
D-8 NPC-2

E-1 Swtch
E-2 Power
E-3 Map
E-4 Gas
E-5 Messg
E-6 Seer
E-7 Guard
E-8 Loctr

F-1 Swtch
F-2 Map
F-3 Hstry
F-4 Loctr
F-5 Gas
F-6 Superloc
F-7 Guard
F-8 Hstry

G-1 Lock
G-2 Valid
G-3 *****
G-4 Messg
G-5 Psych
G-6 Loctr
G-7 Messg
G-8 Psych

H-1 Seer
H-2 *****
H-3 Psych
H-4 Valid
H-5 Guard
H-6 Psych
H-7 Guard
H-8 Loctr


***** = involved in a sidequest no one discovered

I've got my own thoughts, but I'm tired and want to hear what you guys have to say first.

[Kefit]

I utterly detested the anonymity factor of this game. I felt it added nothing to the game (since I had figured out who half the players were by movement two), and it was a huge pain in the ass for me to deal with, especially with AIM. Combine this with some social anxieties of mine around strangers, and it made this game a real chore =/

So, how exactly did we botch up this game at the beginning? I don't recall anything major happening, besides Gray's lynching. And seriously, who can blame us for doing that? I still can't believe that he wasn't a patriot :p

There were also major issues with class balance. Namely, warriors are completely useless. I chose the role since I figured it would allow my to both protect myself from patriots and kill guards, which I thought at the time time no one else could do. Turns out sneakers could kill guards more effectively than I, and that there was absolutely nothing anyone could do to defend themselves against a patriot attack.

Speaking of guards, what exactly are they here for anyway? It's not like they do anything except set off alert mode, since they can't actually kill anyone. They seem like nothing more than an unnecessary way to lengthen the game to me.

[GuidoHunter]

Well, that was fun. Not too much of a challenge, but fun anyway.

(By the way, I'm writing this while chardish writes his, so if I repeat anything, I don't care)

I've got to hand it to blah; he's the man of the game. Everyone trusted him with all the information they had and with that we were able to trounce the humans. Seriously, this game is supposed to be a lot more about lying and deceitfulness. The terminals are there to figure such things out and thereby deal with it. Cunning is the name of this game, not honesty.

If you want to see a record of all of our information, here it is (http://andy.mikee385.com/Infiltration27653.htm).

From the start, the game was ridiculously against us. When chardish let us use the terminals in alert mode, it seemed like a good idea, but the game was still stacked. Then he gave us the power to kill without y'all knowing. This was an absolute necessity, as y'all's plan to lynch anyone who was in a room with anyone that died was too solid for us to beat. Now, the alert mode change was to avoid the humans abusing it, but all it did was let us abuse it. We set off alert mode every turn simply because we could; it didn't hurt us any.

Also, on Movement 1 the three of us happened upon TWO victory rooms and a history terminal. Score. Then, we find out about a gas terminal. Game over, GG nubs, next map. The map was far too big for anyone to find a history or seer terminal (funny story about that), save for Magenta hitting the superlocater, to check out our movements, so we didn't really worry about any of that because we weren't arousing much suspicion at all. That, and we killed off anyone who knew too much =).

Movement 2 was the best, though. We knew where Green and Indigo were going, so we went there then killed them, I went to a gas terminal and gassed White and Olive who revealed without shame that they were going to the same room (good strategy, bad planning). On top of that, we got Gray lynched. He knew way too much and had me and Blue at the top of his suspicion list.

After that it was cake.

Now, we wouldn't have done nearly as good if we didn't have blah. He's got the skillz to get people to trust him, apparently. I didn't try too hard because, I'm going to face it, I've forgotten how to be human. TWG IV was the last time I tried. I had little motivation to go to people and try to extract information because I didn't want to arouse suspicion or something like that; I don't know. But yeah, he ran our team and y'all's team, so that was pretty pathetic. Not only did I not contribute much to the team, I came off like a complete dumbass at times (even though the question of where Gray went is STILL a logical question). But, despite that, he knew everything, so we had to run any sort of plan by him so that it didn't go against any information he had. It was pretty much like we were at his sexcellent-playing mercy.

What I'm getting at is that the greens do need to cooperate, but I don't think they need to so early in the game. Wait to collect some information, don't give the reds any, then start sharing when you think you can get a plan together.

Oh, about the funny story... From the beginning of the game, Hans kept telling us he had a gut instinct about E-6. Well, first two phases we had more important things to do, but on the third movement he goes there. Lo and behold, there's a seer terminal. Just imagine how him being on the greens' side would have changed the game.

Regarding the anonymity thing, I liked it. It was extremely easy to figure out about half the people (especially those who TRIED to get others to know who they were coughTasscough), but not knowing who the rest were was pretty cool. It also let us roleplay, and I'm always for that.

So, balancing issues:
Let the wolves kill before the people in the room know they're there. This is a must for the reds to have any chance at winning, since without it, they're reduced to lynchings and gassings. Lynchings are too hard and gassings will hopefully not be so easy in the next one.
Reduce the building size. Far too big, humans couldn't find anything. If they could find it, we could destroy it.
Reds in Alert Mode: Something has to be done about this; it was far too cheap. Maybe if you keep this and take out the Patriot Report it wouldn't be so broken, but the Patriot Report was extremely nice. I'd like to see a game where both teams have to avoid guards.

Anything I missed?

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[chardish]

Far too big, humans couldn't find anything. If they could find it, we could destroy it.

If I had let Movement 4 play out the humans would have had 4 of the 5 necessary rooms to win the game.

[Kilgamayan]

Brown: (Swore as well; not Squeek)

lmao

<3

I personally thought it was pretty damn obvious I was who I was, since I changed nothing about how I normally acted.

[GuidoHunter]

But then they would have had to cooperate with each other without any of the reds knowing.

What I'm getting at is that you need seer, history, and superlocater terminals at your disposal if there are multiple reds about; knowing where the rooms are won't help if you can't get the people there at the right time.

@Kefit: The round one mistake was telling blah about the gas and superlocater terminals. GG alain and EB.

EDIT2: You're no longer funny, chardish

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Kilgamayan]

Fission Mailed is another MGS reference.

[Kefit]

Just so you know, I never evade the language filter. Too much work. It just so happens that FFR doesn't filter some words that contain swears within them.

As it is right now, I think that the patriots have far too much power with being able to kill anyone in a room before they get a chance to react. All they have to do now is find out where someone is going, and that person is dead. This makes it almost impossible to work together; in a normal TWG, you can usually trust people a little bit without fear that misplaced trust will equal your immediate death. Not so in this game.

Of course, leaving the patriots with no options except for lynchings and gas terminals makes them far too powerless. I'm not sure what to do about this, but some sort of middle road needs to be found.

Two more things: the facility was definitely far too big, and too many of the terminals were useless. I ran into a guard terminal, an anonymous messege terminal, and a lock terminal, and even if I could have used them (GRR Alert mode GRR) they wouldn't have done anything worthwhile for me.

[GuidoHunter]

See, Kilga, I couldn't figure you out because I couldn't discern between the styles of Black, Brown, Red, or Yellow. I had a suspicion that roop was Yellow, but had nothing but that suspicion. I figured Teal was Afro but again I had nothing on which to base that.

And yeah, I liked the figuring Squeek wasn't brown or red, too. Like I said, I had nothing to go on, but that was good enough for me.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Kilgamayan]

I knew Kefit was Red the instant he mentioned being delayed by his job.

I'm somewhat disappointed that you missed that. >_>

[Tasselfoot]

I'll add a NEW postgame later in the day. It is 5am, and I'm very tired. This is what I wrote as soon as I saw that I had died (about 3am, few hours after my lynching):

OK. Here is my rant that I wish I could have posted on the 24th. (written on the 24th.)

I left to go back to school around 10. The trains were delayed from the snow and extremely slow. What normally takes about 2 hours total took me til 3am to get home. And, what do I find? I have been assreamed. Once again, I get lynched without being able to defend myself. GG wolves and idiot humans.

To answer every single comment about my behavior, starting from the top:

Purple: You told me of the entrance to MGGhost in C1, and everyone knew you had been in C3 (Anon Message). C4 was a psychic terminal and C8 was a switch terminal. Now, the switch terminal is not helpful to foxhound at all, is it. Not really. And, the psychic terminal is fairly common, not that helpful either. You just asked me one time, and I gave you my honest answer. Had you pressed me, I likely would have revealed a room or two to you, although I didn't see any reason to do so.

I didn't turn down that much info. Maroon, Magenta, Olive, Yellow all picked up info from me. And, I had contacted others as well, politely asking if they would share. A few declined, a few accepted. I never pushed, never was forceful, and was quite willing to trade info like I tried to do with Orange (who I think is a wolf).

I, amongst MANY others, knew that Indigo went to F6. You could blame 5-6 others as easily as me for that. Plus, I said to multiple people that I was in a locator terminal room, and was willing to share the location with Maroon had he been willing to tell me the location of HIS locator terminal.

Orange: no intel provided, no comments able to be given. I think you're a wolf. Thought that when I talked to you. You, Red, Blue.

Red: I had sent in my request to use my locator terminal on you, could have proven or disproven that statement that you were still on E-floor. Black informed me that the guard terminal told one the future location of the guards, but I really don't know either. And, I think you're a wolf not a warrior, so you could have used it.

I made up no reasons. You said your initial statement because you were planning on doing it. When everyone jumped on you, you changed. And, every other reason I voted for you was listed.

Blue: Very wolfish, like I suspected. It is why I contacted you and Orange. I didn't expect to get any intel from you, when about 10 other people had told me info. Why? wolf. And then you use that to lynch me. Retarded. Hopefully your ruse will be seen through. I asked you nicely about your rooms, you said you'd think about it, I said ok. That was it. And, I know too much so I have to die. Excellent to kill off the most knowledgeable human, IF YOU ARE A WOLF!

And, I think Red is a Red, so of course I'm going to try and get him lynched.

And, ALL OF YOU ARE #$#ing STUPID! IF A RED DOES NOT ATTACK A GUARD, THE GUARD WILL KILL THE RED. ABOUT 3 DIFFERENT PEOPLE SAID THAT THE REDS DON'T HAVE TO KILL THE GUARDS, AND NO ONE CORRECTED THAT STATEMENT!!!! God, you people are stupid.

White: I pushed hard for votes? I made my 1 post on why I was voting him, Maroon agreed and voted. Magenta did also, although I never talked to him about it. And, then I come up with some logic, so I post that. If I were allowed to live, I could have verified that Red didn't kill Indigo. Pity you idiots killed me.

Who ever came out and ASKED me for info. None of you. Maroon wished some info back if he was going to help me with my plan, and I gave it. I hope he still follows it. Anyone who asked me for info, I gave some. How am I supposed to give you all my information IF YOU DON'T ASK FOR IT!!!

No one asked me what room I was in. I was in E8, a locator terminal. And, sure, I could have been lying. I wasn't.

Maroon: Dude, $*%# you. I put so much trust in you, and you dick me in the ass like a piece of prison meat. See above about the guard comment. Fool. And, I was dead serious that I would use my locator to locate purple if he didn't tell me. He told me of his own free will. So I said the same thing to Yellow. He also told me of his own free will. So, I located Red. I could care less where your damn Locator Terminal was Maroon, except to rule it out of places to go. We had this game won, Moron, and you kill me. We were going to get 10 new rooms tomorrow, and maybe 10 more the next day. My plan was excellent, and you screw me over. I'm so #$#ing pissed off at you, more than anyone. The other 5 voters are 3 Wolves and 2 Fools. But I expect more from you.

I said on page 1 that I wouldn't lie to ANYONE during the game. No one remembered that, but I didn't. I didn't lie one time to anyone during the entire game. I had the location of MGGhost, the Stinger room, the Generator. Needed 2 more pieces and we win. Now you have no leadership to coordinate. Stupid.

With that said, I'm done with TWG for the forseeable future. I couldn't sleep last night because of how furious I was with how stupid you people are. And, that has been a regular theme throughout all the TWGs. Me doing amazing things for the Humans, and other fools going behind my back and undermining me.

-Tass out.






PS - I still have MY map, which on day 2 had 3/5 of the needed winning items. I will post it tomorrow.
PPS - I am still undecided if I will play again. Most likely, I'll miss playing too much within a week and be back. Also, I'm sure you all are going to beg me back. Anyway, I will post again after some much needed rest.
PPPS - My apologies to Blah. I was so furious about what happened that I overlooked the obvious. When I re-read everything the next day, it was so clear to me that you were a wolf. Which means you weren't being a fool, but everyone else was for not seeing what you did to me.

Seriously. Bed. No more edits from me.

[Squeek]

Hey, it's Squeek. The guy that deceived you all.

Apparently, my initial plan worked out quite well. Sure, I ended up deceiving my own teammates so that nobody knew who I was, but that was the plan. I had to drag out the game longer and since some people see me as a power player, I had to keep my anonimity.

So, both on AIM and on the forum, I decided to leave out apostrophes and punctuation from sentences. I also neglected capitalization for a bit. It hurt my moral values, but life goes on.

There was one thing that threw me off and I congratulate Whorlichan for pulling it off.

She made a post in a random Chit-Chat thread and signed it "Q". It was promptly deleted, but I saw it first. I knew something was amiss when he didn't login under "The_Q" to post it again, but I figured he just didn't want it posted in the first place. I thought Olive was Q the entire game.

I personally thought Alain was Gray due to the amount of involvement he had, but I forgot Tass was in this game, apparently.

Ok, onto what I did.

I started at C4. I found a Psychic terminal. The most useless thing to find on Day 1.

I move to E7 and find a dead guard. This prompts me to ask Gray who was there. Red was there. Red killed a guard and never fessed up. I make a "subliminal" comment about it, but ABSOLUTELY NOBODY PICKS UP ON THE HINT EVER.

I moved back to C4 to see who died and what role they had, but Alert Mode is called AGAIN.

Then Alert Mode was called again and everybody dies. Frown.

Oh, I was also a hacker. I figured Alert Mode would be a rare occurance due to the 1/8 chance per floor. All I really cared about is whether or not intel would be legit.

~Squeek

PS - One thing I do recommend so you don't accidentally post in the wrong forum or do something incorrectly on AIM is to get two separate programs for each. I used Firefox for posting and GAIM for AIM. I told Chardish that the easy way to resolve the forum situation is to restrict the players' postings to only be in that forum. We'll see how it goes.

PPS - I swear if nobody else noticed that the guards are named after the floor they were supposed to be on, I'm going to go ballistic. I found the dogtags for "Evans" on floor "E", so I figure it's a good way to make sure somebody is not lying to me.

[stretchypanda]

And Guido gets his revenge for getting owned last game.

I'm actually very, very happy for this to be over. When I ran into a guard the first day, Chardish told me I could either fight or die, and that he thought he knew what I wanted, and I was tempted to tell him to kill me off. I shouldn't have signed up in the first place, but once I was in, I was going to try my best to keep up and participate actively. I was pretty sure I shouldn't have been trusting Blah (yeah, the anonymity was kinda ridiculous), but I also didn't really care. Fun times.

That's about all I have to say except, Tasselfoot. Get the **** over yourself. If a room is "unimportant," you should have no problem telling me what's in it. This is what you get for trying to win the goddamn game on your own. Stop making such a big deal out of this. IT'S A GAME. ON THE INTERNET.

Sorry it didn't work out the way you wanted, Chardish. It was a good idea, just ridiculously complicated.

EDIT: By "last game," I meant that game where I stole information from Guido in exchange for sexual favors. ; )

[GuidoHunter]

Orange: no intel provided, no comments able to be given. I think you're a wolf. Thought that when I talked to you. You, Red, Blue.

And, ALL OF YOU ARE #$#ing STUPID! IF A RED DOES NOT ATTACK A GUARD, THE GUARD WILL KILL THE RED. ABOUT 3 DIFFERENT PEOPLE SAID THAT THE REDS DON'T HAVE TO KILL THE GUARDS, AND NO ONE CORRECTED THAT STATEMENT!!!! God, you people are stupid.

I said on page 1 that I wouldn't lie to ANYONE during the game. No one remembered that, but I didn't. I didn't lie one time to anyone during the entire game. I had the location of MGGhost, the Stinger room, the Generator. Needed 2 more pieces and we win. Now you have no leadership to coordinate. Stupid.

With that said, I'm done with TWG for the forseeable future. I couldn't sleep last night because of how furious I was with how stupid you people are. And, that has been a regular theme throughout all the TWGs. Me doing amazing things for the Humans, and other fools going behind my back and undermining me.

-Tass out.

A few things... Like I said, I didn't have to try to be too human since we had the game in the bag with blah. I couldn't reveal any information because it would have been far too suspicious. That, and I'd forgotten how to be human.

About the guard, you seem to have gravely misunderstood what everyone was saying. Reds do not have to kill a guard, they only have to attack them and ditch their priority. So, you're half right. When everyone said we didn't have to kill the guards, they were right. When you say we had to attack the guards to live, you were right.

Regarding the trust, I wish I had been a human because I would have held you to your statement of never lying. It'd be a good point on which to lynch you if you ever lied. I even mentioned that to blah when we were trying to lynch you (which was considerably easier without you here to defend yourself).

And about the last paragraph I quoted, wah. Nobody knew how to play this game, and it showed.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Squeek]

I wanted to add that Hans needs to stop playing if his intuition is going to be right this often. I swear, he's been right in the last 5 games about the roles / rooms.

The only thing he needs to do is act on it.

~Squeek

[Kilgamayan]

That's about all I have to say except, Tasselfoot. Get the $*%# over yourself. If a room is "unimportant," you should have no problem telling me what's in it. This is what you get for trying to win the goddamn game on your own. Stop making such a big deal out of this. IT'S A GAME. ON THE INTERNET.

THE INTERNET: SERIOUS BUSINESS

On a side note, I was just reading over the ending story, and...

Purple reaches for her IV to pull it out.

“Not quite,” says Campbell, gesturing at her to stop. “We're not quite through with you yet. We're going to do this again until you get it right – we can't afford to have any slip-ups when you do the real thing. Founders, load the program.”

“Aye, sir.”

The fifteen soldiers all stare at them in disbelief. A few try to undo their IVs, but the strength seeps out of them before they can do so.

“Good luck, soldiers.”

Does that sounds to anyone else here like a setup for a mass rape sequence?

[stretchypanda]

On a side note, I was just reading over the ending story, and...

Purple reaches for her IV to pull it out.

“Not quite,” says Campbell, gesturing at her to stop. “We're not quite through with you yet. We're going to do this again until you get it right – we can't afford to have any slip-ups when you do the real thing. Founders, load the program.”

“Aye, sir.”

The fifteen soldiers all stare at them in disbelief. A few try to undo their IVs, but the strength seeps out of them before they can do so.

“Good luck, soldiers.”

Does that sounds to anyone else here like a setup for a mass rape sequence?

I laughed out loud.. even though I'd be the one getting massraped. It's my punishment for being too disinterested in the game! :O

[chardish]

The next game of this will be the real thing, not another VR simulation. (Hopefully.)

[HansSky]

Well, that was fun, being a wolf for the first time.


But, it made me a little wary. I didn't want to contact anyone at all, because I didn't know if I'd sound wolfish or not. The only people I talked to outside of the Patriot Alliance were: Gray, Indigo, and White.

Gray and Indigo were just asking where I went...what I did. I kind of freaked out a little, because I had no idea what to do. So I just went and pulled the, "No, YOU'RE the asshole" thing. When I talked to White, it was about lynching Gray, which I was very happy to do. If he were to be in the game much longer, we would have lost, I think.

Plus, I never kept much of an alliance with anybody before, so I was supposed to talk to people AND lie. Very hard for me. :-\

And when Chardish said the humans screwed youselves over, you really did. You gave out WAY too much information, which led to your death.

We're sneakers. Going to C3. If somebody else shows up, then you know one of us is a wolf. Great. UNLESS the Reds know where a GAS TERMINAL IS. Plus, we knew where Green and Indigo were going, so we cut them off and killed them. PLUS Tass' lynching.

5 kills in one round. THAT is what screwed you guys over. Also, we never would have been able to do it without blah, so he gets my player of the year vote.

o yea

+1 intuition

[Tasselfoot]

Guido, Chardish told me that about the guards after I wrote that. I didn't want to change anything about it though. Hence why I said I would be writing more now, after the fact.

So, I was DEAD ON RIGHT about Orange and Blue, but no one listens to the genius. Panda, thanks for getting me lynched. As I said in the other post, all you had to do was push me a little, because as you said, unimportant rooms aren't that important, and aren't a big deal for me to keep secret.

So, I read the wolves' notes that Guido posted, and they made me smile. You guys had absolutely no intel from me. Funny about that, huh. I told Whorli all my intel (she was looking at my spreadsheet in person), because she wasn't initially in the game. Then Olive was extremely inactive so Chardish removed whoever it was and asked her to replace Olive. By that point I had already been talking to her for over a day about strategy, and had mentioned numerous times as to my humanity. She joins, I look into her eyes and ask her if she is a wolf, she says no, I trust her 100%. I read her like a picture book. The only other person I told specifically about what I found was Alain, who told me he found a gas terminal in A1, so I told him about mine in A8. Blah was being extra anal about his locator room, for there was a dead Flypie there too. And, I already knew about that room too. :(

My plan, that I alluded to earlier, was to have 2 people use map terminals to locate 10 different rooms. Whorli was getting a stinger from A4, and eb didn't seem to be in the open idea-sharing and teamwork mode at that point, so I asked Blah to help with it. He told me after my death his plan to go to B8 (where I said I was going) and kill me. But, I had thought about that, and was still undecided as to whether I'd go to B8 or go to A3 (where Blah said he would be). Most likely, I was going to go to A3. No harm in us both using the same map terminal, and this way, if he lied to me, I could prove it easily.

Back to the information. The key here was that EVERYONE who was human was telling me what they found. That made it extremely easy to figure out who the wolves were. Again, eveyone else was too brickheaded to think about it logically. And I don't care that this was the first run of the game, thinking illogically is not something that should die because we're playing a new game. The 3 humans who voted for me (Cypher, Panda, Kefit), you really should have realized how poor the arguments were from Blue, Orange, and ESPECIALLY MAROON! Casting the final vote to lynch me when we had been working so hard as a team through the game. If huge flashing neon signs and loud whistles weren't going off, serious logical fallacies are abound. Kefit, you should really know by now that the revenge voting pattern is absolutely terrible for human victory, which was essentially what your vote for me was. Also, why did no one come to the conclusion that the wolves would be VERY hardpressed to start a bandwagon against someone, instead of jumping on another's.

Lastly, I must attack my beloved. It wouldn't be fair for me to berate tons of others without being an equal opportunity asshole. Hun, you should have saved me. Period. I know we talked briefly about this, but here is my full logic (no claiming that you have no logic!): You knew 100% that I was human, but never posted once after they started the lynch for me. You said you tried to talk to Cypher and someone else (Panda, I think) to change their votes, but you obviously negleted the obvious (no hard feelings, you're good at that). Also, why did you not login as me and post that I was changing my vote to no lynch? At least then it would have been 6-6 and a coinflip for my life, if you couldn't get one of the big three to switch. This whole thing was very unfortunate due to not only me being on a train, but my cellphone being dead. Had my phone been working, I could have told you what to do over the phone, and saved myself. Alas, thing did not work out so cleanly. No hard feelings love (I can never be mad/upset at you), but be wary, you shall incur the wrath of the 2 fingers of death tonight.

As always when I make long posts, I'm likely leaving out information. But, if I am, I'll add it later.

Editing in screenshot of the intel I had after 2 days. (Ugh, its not letting me upload into this forum. Fix this please LD.)

[HansSky]

Also, why did you not login as me and post that I was changing my vote to no lynch? At least then it would have been 6-6 and a coinflip for my life, if you couldn't get one of the big three to switch.


Yes, of course. And then you both would have gotten kicked out!

[blahblah18]

As they say...
"its good to be the king"
ok going in reverse order, Tass that wouldn't have saved you since because I knew they were both map terminals I was going to go to one and have either hans or guido go to the other... so you were dying either way, and WE were getting 10 rooms... Guido's document isn't all the intel we had.. I ahd like 5 more rooms or so that I forgot to mention to him now and then...

The only thing I feel that needs fixing is alert mode, and the best way to fix it is to say that guards ignore Reds... except that can lead to some perfect incriminating evidence, so I'm not sure about it. A better way is to make the movement of the guards ALWAYS random.

You need a different class instead of warrior now... sneaker evades alert mode and kills guards, hacker detects false terminals, which IS important, we just never hacked any A) because we kept getting victory rooms and ****, and B) I knew everyone's class and how most peopel were hackers. So that's something to think on.

I had indigo's trust completely, and I didn't want to have to kill him, but he was extracting info from me, and he would've seen the destroyed superlocator so he had to die.

Flypie told me that she foudn otacon, so I knew I had to do major persuading to kill her immediately and to keep his presence silent. I did both of those, killed her, and took control of my little NPC, I was about to annoucne him anonymously on the forum, but the game ended.

You guys can't say the room you are currently in during decision phase... we just sit in gas rooms while you tell us where to kill you.

Tass, I understand how you'd be upset about being lynched, but honestly, looking back at it... It made no difference whatsoever in the long run, and I would've actually rather have lynched Red, cuz I knew you were dying next turn anyway.

Again, 64 rooms was perfect... If you make it smaller you have to absolutely positively get rid of the map terminal.

I'll post more as I think of it, but I feel that this was a good game for me for being the "bad guy" for the first time.

P.S I also have a ton of more strategies ready to use to finish off the last of you, only Guido and Hans know them now though ;)

[stretchypanda]

So, I was DEAD ON RIGHT about Orange and Blue, but no one listens to the genius. Panda, thanks for getting me lynched. As I said in the other post, all you had to do was push me a little, because as you said, unimportant rooms aren't that important, and aren't a big deal for me to keep secret.

Your welcome.

You keep saying the logic behind lynching you was unfounded, when it certainly wasn't. You definitely played the role of stupid human this round.

1) I tell you the location of THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF THE MISSION, and you can't tell me what's in two rooms. Okay, so we've been down this road, and the rooms were unimportant. However, this makes you look VERY suspicious. Oh, but you needed a little push? HELLO! I KNOW WHERE MGGHOST IS! IS THAT NOT ENOUGH OF A PUSH?

2) I tell you I know where Ghost is, hoping to get the code to open the door. When I won't tell you where it is, you threaten to use a locator on me. Add that to the fact that I know how you play this game, and what am I supposed to think? You acted like a wolf.

No, you weren't given the opportunity to defend yourself, but your girlfriend tried for you. Which brings me to this:

IT'S (as previously stated) JUST A GODDAMN GAME, DO NOT INSULT THE INTELLIGENCE OF YOUR GIRLFRIEND. ESPECIALLY in such a patronizing manner.

I cannot BELIEVE you put so much stock into this, as to declare anyone playing a complete idiot, and believe that you alone can save us all from the depths of our stupidity. Stop acting so superior. You seem to think the humans would have won this had you stayed alive. Not counting you, they had FOUR of us on the SECOND movement. The wolves had this one in the bag.

[Tasselfoot]

I never said they didn't. And, as Blah said, I was dead the next turn anyway. IT IS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE MATTER, NOT THE MATTER ITSELF.

Panda, you asked me about the rooms. I said they weren't important. You asked a 2nd time, I said it again, but let you make your own choices about finding out. Turns out 2 people went to C4 (one of the two rooms I was talking about) on movement 3. Funny. Regardless, had you said "Gray, I really need something back from you in return for that intel." I most likely would have, and looking back, I should have given up info earlier. My mistake with that.

I did not declare everyone an idiot. Blah played this brilliantly. Alain was on the right track, but was properly killed by Blah. I'm sure most people didn't play awfully, but also didn't stand out. I know as well as everyone else that there are things we'll learn from this game, and mistakes that were made. That is fine. I never once criticized the moves that were made that will be learned from. I am, and will continue to do so for as long as needed, talking about the LOGIC that people are using to make some of their decisions.

So Panda, you'd have me not voice my opinions about another player in the game? Just because of my relationship with Whorli doesn't change any facts whatsoever in her play. I would be extremely hypocritical if I went and attacked everyone and left her alone because of our intimacies. I am extremely blunt (as I'm sure y'all know), and I say what I feel.

To Hans: She knew I was human, everyone knows we are in regular contact, Blah knew I was on a train and couldn't defend myself, I could easily have asked her to post for me, or asked her to ask chardish to post for me. Just because I wasn't able to actually due it (due to dead phone), doesn't mean that that isn't exactly what I would have done had I been able to use said dead phone.

[Kilgamayan]

Given this new rise of information, I think we should instate a new rule that boyfriend/girlfriend pairs aren't allowed to play in the same game, since we have no idea what they could be doing IRL in oreder to gain some sort of advantage.

[Tasselfoot]

This is what I knew on day 2, who told me, etc. I had other notes, but this is the most interesting page.

http://www.lightdarkness42.com/TWG/Infiltration_1_SS.JPG

[chardish]

I know Tass well enough to know that when he calls you an idiot here, he means it solely within the context of the game.

Yes, he's got a huge ego, but we've all got our character quirks ;)

[chardish]

The spreadsheets you've all been waiting for.
http://www.lightdarkness42.com/TWG/sheet1.jpg
http://www.lightdarkness42.com/TWG/sheet2.jpg
http://www.lightdarkness42.com/TWG/sheet3.jpg
http://www.lightdarkness42.com/TWG/sheet4.jpg
http://www.lightdarkness42.com/TWG/sheet5.jpg

Please excuse the notation on the last one, it's hard to understand and I'm not consistent.

[Kilgamayan]

Why did blah take a stinger? He would have no use for it.

[alainbryden]

Blah owned me. I was too distracted by the fact that he was blah, to realise that he, just as well as anyone, could have been playing me. I think the goal of the anonymity was to not have us distracted by who someone is, but I think it has the opposite effect, because I fooled myself into thinking that just because I found that maroon was blah, that it made maroon human. I didn't really think that, but it had that effect on my outlook.


Aside, the reason that the humans lost was this: All the humans agree'd in the beginning, based on the rules, that the best, and quickest way to win was an all out sharing of information. Once the rules changed, all our preparation and execution of this plan was a backfire. If the rules had been how they are from the beginnin, none of the careless sharing of information would have been done. We are all smarter than that. I strategy became flawed only when the rules of the game changed. My fault for voting for the mid-game change.

Congradulations blah.

[Tasselfoot]

Thanks Chardish.

I agree Alain. You and 4 others votes to change the rules midgame. I don't understand why ANY human would have voted to change the rules. Why on earth would someone voluntarily agree to give the opposite side more power?!?!?! Again, stupid. I said it earlier (although i think chardish deleted it) that giving the reds power in alert mode made the game fairly even. You all saw how alert mode affected the game. Giving them the anonymous killing as well was just plain out retarded. At least Alain admits this.

I'm not a fan at all of the anonymous system. That is why I went to 0 effort to hide who I am. That and I'm lazy and didn't want to go through all that effort to seem different. I'm me and **** you if you can't handle that. :-D

Alain, I was saddened by your dying, and immediately went to figure out who cut you down prematurely. Alas, your fate shortly thereafter became my own. It all works its way back to Blah. My hero, at least for the next 20 seconds or so. I would like to play this game from the red side, to see how much more I could manipulate all of you (That $1 is in the mail Evan).

Heading back to Philly. Back later to call all of you more names. :)

[GuidoHunter]

I agree Alain. You and 4 others votes to change the rules midgame. I don't understand why ANY human would have voted to change the rules. Why on earth would someone voluntarily agree to give the opposite side more power?!?!?! Again, stupid. I said it earlier (although i think chardish deleted it) that giving the reds power in alert mode made the game fairly even. You all saw how alert mode affected the game. Giving them the anonymous killing as well was just plain out retarded. At least Alain admits this.

The changing of the rules was a necessity. There would have been NO game whatsoever had there not been changes. It turned out that there wasn't much of a game after the changes, but nobody realized that until three or four turns in. I know I would have voted to make it a game rather than a blowout had I been on the green side, too.

And I say you have it backward, Tass. Keep anonymous killing but get rid of power in Alert Mode. I know this takes away from the original intent of the game that you'd better have a damn good reason to kill someone, but what's to stop the humans from enacting the plan that y'all made at the beginning? The power in Alert Mode was to keep the humans from abusing it and not letting the wolves do anything. The only thing that could have been done at that point was take that away from the humans. Obviously, there was little foresight into the matter, but that could be balanced out much more than the anonymous killing.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[FOXHOUND-Magenta]

(still logged in as Magenta. I only posted once as eb during the whole game, because I'm too lazy to log in and out. I logged in as Magenta in Firefox and tried to log in as eb in IE, but it had me logged in as Magenta there, too. So I'm not sure how you guys did it, but apparently I'm not able to be logged in on 2 names at once. I really hate having these codenames. People figured each other out so fast, and it's a hassle switching accounts on the forums and on AIM (I refuse to download Trillian or some junk like that). Hence, I think we shouldn't bother with the anonymity thing in the future. It's too much extra work anyways!)

Dammit blah, I knew it!!! Early in the game I swear you said you were a sneaker and then last night you were like "no, I'm a hacker!" You just wanted Yellow to go to the gas terminal so you could kill him. Too bad I wasn't gonna tell him A1.

And yeah, nobody else has said it, but blah acts all offended when you don't tell him stuff. He acted like he was gonna cry or something if I didn't tell him things, so I briefly went over stuff. Speaking of telling things: there's nothing wrong with sharing information, as long as you don't share it completely. Tell what you found, or tell what room you went to, but never both. I never told people exactly what room what was unless I knew it was okay, like when I told Indigo to go to the superlocator (sorry man :(). I was pretty pissed when Chardish ended it for inactivity as one of the reasons. I was very active, but I stopped posting a whole lot because the thread slowed down.

So you know, the plan was this: Brown found a gas terminal and a history terminal on floor F. He was going to gas the guard in F6, but I told him I had a better idea. I posted that somebody was going to F6 to kill the guard hoping the wolves would think me stupid and go to kill him, then I'd have a sneaker gas the room. Brown was a hacker, though, so I contacted Magenta because he had said/implied before that he was a sneaker. AFTER I tell him the plan he claims he's a hacker and I'm like...crap. So I ask who a sneaker is and he tells me Yellow, so I PM him and was arranging for him to kill a guard and a wolf. Of course, with blah knowing the plan he would've only gotten the guard, but whatever.

And yeah, I think I know why people voted for the change: THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE READING! I asked Chardish about the change to make sure I knew what it meant so that I'd be absolutely sure what I was voting on. I found it was a terrible thing for my team so I voted against it. I can't remember who it was that I talked to, but they voted for it and thought my strategy (ya know, report in and tell people if somebody's in your room so wolves can't do anything) would still work. When I explained what the rule change meant and that it ruined us, they said something like "Well damn, I didn't know that's what it meant!" Be sure before you vote from now on.

And I'll admit, I trusted blah too much, but I never trusted anybody. I even announced on the threads that I wouldn't trust anybody until I seered them, which brings me to another point. Way too many useless terminals and not enough seer terminals. I think we should reserve another thread for game balancing and keep this for postgame, but I just had to say it. I have some other ideas for balance and new stuff, but I'll make a thread/post it in a different thread already made later.

And I'm pretty sure Tass told me things, too. I didn't vote for him because I knew it was Tass. He pushes for info even in TWG, so I figured it was just Tass being Tass. If I had realized that changing my vote to no lynch would have made it a coin-flip situation, I would have. Sorry for not seeing that, Tass. I would have preferred to seer you. Oh, and I find it funny that the one person who kept saying that "lynchings should be just as important in this game as they are in TWG" got lynched.

This game would have been a lot more fun if it was more balanced, people posted more (not as much as me, but geez, I couldn't tell that anybody had died because NOBODY POSTED ANYMORE), and if there wasn't anonymity. And Chardish, I don't see how it's that much more work. In TWG you have to write a bigass story, but this one you don't. *shrug* What do I know, I'm just a player.

[evilbutterfly]

so I contacted Magenta


I meant Maroon, whoops XD

[Afrobean]

I'm dissappointed it ended early. I wanted to play it out, even if the humans would lose eventually anyway.

My stance in this game was pretty useless. I had little to no trust in anyone, and I wasn't part of any sort of alliances. I like to think that I helped in my own way (I found that generator, remember that?), but I also hurt us. That last alert that I caused, was because I'd forgotten to send in a move PM, because I didn't know we were in a movement phase. I suppose it doesn't matter, because eb got saw by a guard too, but I still feel bad for what I did.

I also believe the anonymity in the game was useless. Anyone who would use who the people really were as an advantage figured most of the people out quickly. The only person I found out was eb, but that's partly because of a few things he mentioned about his class and things, and the way he carried himself over AIM. Also, he mentioned that he only used AIM, so he was only going to be on one account at once, and I noticed that "evilbutterfly87" and "FOXHND-Magenta" weren't ever on at the same time. I suggest that alternate accounts be removed for the next game. I was really looking forward to reds being able to take over accounts, but it seems like Chardish got rid of that idea, and that was the only part of alternate accounts that I liked.

PS I was playing this game like there were no reds. I think that others should play in a similar way to the way I did. Not giving out all your info of course, but don't go looking for people to lynch. Most of the time, you'll be wrong, and you'll just be helping the reds to win. The only time I think we should lynch ANYONE is if there's undeniable proof against them (like they were seer'd from a secure seer terminal, or if someone is found in a room dead and a history terminal reveals that a certain person was in there when the other person died). Again, I'm not retarded; I'm not suggesting that we post all our info right away, all I'm saying is that you guys are playing this like a TWG too much- you should play it like an RPG.

[Kilgamayan]

Eee bee, I was logged in on both accounts as follows:

- Logged onto Kilgamayan on http://www.flashflashrevolution.com

- Logged onto FOXHOUND-Brown on http://flashflashrevolution.com

[chardish]

In TWG you have to write a bigass story, but this one you don't. *shrug* What do I know, I'm just a player.

Wrong. The story would have come into effect had you found NPCs and told the others about their presence.

This requires way more being organized. Every day I have to update 2 spreadsheets 15 times, calculate guard movements, see if alert mode was triggered, write 15 unique PMs and send them out, etc. In TWG you simply calculate votes and say who gets lynched.

I'm dissappointed it ended early. I wanted to play it out, even if the humans would lose eventually anyway.

Teal, your obscene inactivity was one of the things that made me think that people were losing interest. Phase M3 you didn't send in move orders and consequently got a guard show up in your room cause you didn't move. If you want there to be discussion, you HAVE to keep the thread very active, even if you don't have a whole lot of information to share. Do what Alain does - post the obvious, which anyone can read, and wait for comment.

I was really looking forward to reds being able to take over accounts, but it seems like Chardish got rid of that idea, and that was the only part of alternate accounts that I liked.

No one - Red or Green - found the terminal that let them do that. Another cool part about anonymity is sudden inexplicable disappearances with no death post. With no anonymity this would work on the forums, but not on AIM.

Person A: "Where you headed?"
Person B: "I don't want to talk about the game right now."
Person A: "You're dead, aren't you?"

[Afrobean]

Teal, your obscene inactivity was one of the things that made me think that people were losing interest. Phase M3 you didn't send in move orders and consequently got a guard show up in your room cause you didn't move. If you want there to be discussion, you HAVE to keep the thread very active, even if you don't have a whole lot of information to share.
I wasn't that innactive. My not sending in a PM doesn't have anything to do with not posting a lot. I kept up on the thread at all times that I could (meaning multiple thread checks every day). I didn't send a PM that day because I didn't realize it was the next movement phase. I must've overlooked where you announced that it was the next phase, because I thought we were still on decision phase.

Do what Alain does - post the obvious, which anyone can read, and wait for comment.
Even if I wanted to do that, it would be out of character. I'm not the type to do that, so doing so may be seen as wolfish. I know that no one knew who I was (outside of those who guessed who I was), but I had established certain behavior as Teal, and if I started acting differently, it would be very suspicious.

EDIT: to counter the AIM thing, why not just announce when people have died. You don't have to say anything about how or why, but you could just post as the Colonel and say "We just lost the vital signs of FOXHOUND Mauve. Keep an eye out to see if you can find out what happened," or something similar to that.

[evilbutterfly]

Kilga: I'm logged in on both as eb just by logging into one. Do you click the checkbox "Remember me" or not? I think that may be my problem...

Chardish: Funny thing is, I knew who alain was and after he died, I said hey to him on his normal screenname and he never responded. He wouldn't talk to me until I said I found his body and said sorry and then we talked mostly about things not concerning the game. Honestly, I don't think anonymity didn't help much at all....

[Kilgamayan]

Do you click the checkbox "Remember me" or not?

Yes.

[blahblah18]

Chardish where are my quotes you said were perfect for post game hilarity? :)
Defiantely autokills are needed for the reasons I said before, if anyone bothered to read it.
It got inactive cuz I killed all the active people.
Equality is reached if Patriots are given the room report AFTER they send in their moves, OR make it that Reds can't trigger alert mode, but I think the first one is better.
Everyone said everything to me, and that's that

[chardish]

Blah was a lot of fun to talk with during the game.

[23:13] Blahblah: here's my goal.
[23:13] Blahblah: TO LYNCH GRAY
[23:13] Blahblah: lolololz
[23:13] Evan: Hehehe.
[23:13] Blahblah: **** finding him

[01:20] Blahblah: its fun knowing that they're going to die in 22 hours
[01:20] Blahblah: and no one else knows
[01:20] Evan: ha
[01:20] Evan: blah
[01:20] Evan: i am so happy you're patriot
[01:20] Evan: this whole setting traps thing is EXACTLY what I wanted the patriots to do
[01:20] Blahblah: did you rig it? ;-)
[01:20] Evan: nope
[01:20] Evan: random
[01:20] Blahblah: awesome
[01:20] Blahblah: i've been waiting 8 twg's to be wolf
[01:21] Blahblah: i knew i could pull it off well
[01:21] Blahblah: because all the other TWG's i convicned people what to do anyway.. but then it was jut random hunches
[01:21] Blahblah: now i have purpose
[01:21] Evan: hahaha

[01:22] Blahblah: and just so you know, I think i coudl take a guess as to every single person who they really are
[01:22] Blahblah: although most peopel seem to be clueless
[01:23] Evan: i want you to guess everyone, I will respond with "k"
[01:23] Blahblah: no
[01:23] Blahblah: oh
[01:23] Blahblah: wrong im
[01:23] Blahblah: lol
[01:23] Blahblah: well the 3 wolves i know
[01:23] Blahblah: gray tass
[01:23] Blahblah: purple amanda
[01:23] Blahblah: olive whorli
[01:23] Blahblah: green flypie
[01:23] Blahblah: magenta EB
[01:23] Blahblah: indigo Alain
[01:23] Blahblah: White Cypher
[01:23] Blahblah: i'm forgetting some more i definately know
[01:24] Blahblah: Balck and brown are squeek and kilga i believe
[01:24] Blahblah: but i'm not positive which is which
[01:24] Evan: yellow, red, green, teal
[01:24] Blahblah: green is flypie
[01:25] Blahblah: red and teal are hard do to barely talking to them
[01:25] Blahblah: i'll guess teal is eyespew
[01:25] Blahblah: yellow roopert
[01:25] Blahblah: and red whoever is left
[01:25] Blahblah: :-)
[01:25] Evan: k
[01:25] Blahblah: so how'd i do?
[01:25] Evan: i'll tell you after the game

[Squeek]

Oh, so Q WAS Olive. I knew something was up.

Then it was probably a smart decision to replace him at that point since he did give himself away in a Chit Chat thread during Movement 1.

~Squeek

[chardish]

I replaced Olive because Q had displayed no intention of really wanting to play the game or following through on it, despite my initial request that he be a part of it.

[blahblah18]

damn I got everyone right no my guess basically except eyespew.. and only because he wasn't playing hehe

[roopert]

I would really like to be a wolf sometime soon. All I know how to be is a good human. I wonder if I would totally bomb it as a wolf or use my humanly skills and fool everyone. I had no idea so many people had died this game. I thought maybe 3 people max. Mainly because the lack of communication we had going. It got to the point where I would sign on my Foxhound screen name and only see Chardish or a few other players on. You wolves ran circles around us. However, had we found a working seer terminal it would have helped greatly.

[Kilgamayan]

Kefit actually found one but promptly got killed before he even knew it was there.

Of course, that's when the game ended.

[alainbryden]

Funny thing is, I knew who alain was and after he died, I said hey to him on his normal screenname and he never responded.

You contacted me and I didn't know what to do, so I talked to chardish and he told me to block everyone in the game :P. I didn't block blah though, because he didn't mention the game at all when we talked, he knew I was dead, he was the wolf.

[chardish]

Dear someone,

Buy me this Gamecube.

Love,
Chardish

http://junkerhq.net/MetalGear/MGSTTSPP/CubeTop.jpg

[alainbryden]

That is awesome. Photoshop'd?

[Tps222]

If you have a gamecube, then try and find some printable sticky paper, then find the foxhound symbol, and stick it on.

[Matthew4444]

You can remove the top plastic piece when the cover is open, so you can remove that and make a replica with the foxhound logo instead.

[alainbryden]

Better solution: Printer + Tape

[evilbutterfly]

What are you people talking about!?

[Matthew4444]

look up at chardish's post

[HansSky]

The image is no longer there. That's why me and eb are confused.

[Squeek]

Found it.

http://hh141.hiphip.com/Merchant/twin_snakes_gc.jpg

~Squeek