How do you live with death?

[Hateandhatred]

Ok, so after seeing the afterlife thread, this I what I got out of it.

Minus the religious believers, most people think that death is pretty much becoming nothing.

However, a lot of people don't want to sit here and think that once they die, everything they achieved and lived for turns to nothing.

I.can understand Why this could be considered unhealthy. If everything is pointless, Why not organize a collective FFR suicide because it's all bullshit in the end?

Maybe it's all because humans have grown to be too smart. They can't just live without asking themselves too many questions, like other animals would do.

So yeah, you get the idea. What are your ideals about it? What do you think should be one's way to prepare themselves from death without harming an entire society with it?

This thread is NOT about what you think the afterlife is. This thread is (to put everyone in the same boat from the start) about how we should see our ends, and what kind of morals we should give to it, if we had to give it anything like that, given that once you die, the world world turns to oblivion, like before you were born and given consciousness. Or more precisely, how it should be supposing it is the case, if its not what you believe in.

It's good to see that side of the medal too, even though this probable outcome is the most problematic and most depressing one.

I will punch in later.

Go ahead. And remember, don't turn this into a copy of the other thread. But feel free to quote relevant stuff from it.

[25thhour]

I have lost very close loved ones before. It took a while, but in the end I finally accepted the fact that they passed on. It happens to everyone and there is no way to avoid it so moving on is pretty much the only way to "live" with death. I did go through the grief cycle before I moved on though.

Unless you like being depressed for your whole life.

[who_cares973]

25thhour I don't think he's asking how you deal with the death of others but how you would deal with the coming of your death

[Choofers]

It's inevitable (unless biotechnology advances to the point of elongating human life), so why worry about it? Obviously, we all want to keep living out dreams/bettering ourselves/learning/etc but the faster you come to terms with death, the better.

What matters more is that you live your life how you want.

[shadow 1800]

It's inevitable (unless biotechnology advances to the point of elongating human life), so why worry about it? Obviously, we all want to keep living out dreams/bettering ourselves/learning/etc but the faster you come to terms with death, the better.

What matters more is that you live your life how you want.

Pretty much this. Worrying about death your whole life is a COMPLETE waste of time. Why would you waste your time with something you know is going to happen in the end regardless? The more you worry about it the worse it gets. It is easier just not to think about it. If it really bothers you then deep down you probably hope there is a god and that you have a soul.

[Cavernio]

The belief that after I die, the rest of the world keeps on living.

My individual existence isn't enough of a purpose for myself anyways; I need others to substantiate my life, so coming from that, the answer's pretty obvious. I'm merely a tiny piece of the entirety of the universe's consciousness (whatever that may be).
When I was a kid, I mattered because I thought God existed and God wanted me. I lost my belief in God when God was no longer a separate entity from my own mind. Either because of that, or through the same emotional turmoil that caused me to lose the feeling of god in the first place, that I exist and can experience is simply not strong enough of a reason for me to have that 'I'm alive!' zest for life most of the time. Afterall, if what made me so happy was simply in my head, regardless or not of whether it was an imagined God or me just loving myself and life, it's still all just me making it up. That's why love and relationships matter so much; they're reflections of me and a mutual sharing of experience that makes them special, and what makes life special.

I'm honestly fairly indifferent to death at this point in my life.

[Spenner]

Death raises anxiety with me, because I can't really fathom having my consciousness cease. Knowing that there will be absolutely no more to anything on this planet will make me very much miss living. Thinking about death makes me cherish life that much more-- I don't necessarily worry about it, but it motivates the direction of my life.

[Reincarnate]

I live with death by using it as a motivating force in every decision I make, and I really do make it an active component in my decision process. I'm not sure if you could call it fear, exactly, but rather I look at death as an exit point. Up until that exit point, my goal is to have as much fun as I can.

I only fear death insofar as I don't want my exit point to be painful, and I don't want it to be resultant of something stupidly avoidable (like not looking both ways when crossing the street or something).

[ScylaX]

I'd advice one and only one philosopher for that topic : Emil Cioran.
I'll post my own opinion later, but that guy wrote magnificent books on the topic and they're not even "true" essays (they're basically aphorisms on the subject).

[cry4eternity]

It's the same reason you make your bed, clean your room, eat lunch, pay your bills, wash your clothes, etc. Why would you clean if it's just going to get dirty again? Why eat if a few hours later you'll be hungry again? Why live at all if you're just going to die someday?

The answer is for a brief period between the beginning and the end, there is something.

I may dare to say that it appears to be a recurring theme even in the bigger picture. Everything has a lifetime; everything is bound by this rule. The universe itself has a clear beginning and arguably a clear ending, and yet it exists without "short circuiting" its inevitable demise. This "living for the time between" is the meaning of life, the universe, and everything.

[Emithith]

Death is my bud, I play video games with him erryday. Living with death is a blast
/CT Talk:
I just don't think about it.

[bmah]

"How do you live with death?"

I try not to think about it. Thinking about it gets my stomach churning and makes me feel quite anxious, to be frank.

In the other thread, Rubix mentioned that death would be like sleeping or the experience before birth: nothing. However, it's the fact that one day you won't be able to do the things you've always done or accomplished that's unnerving. It's not the actual physical experience that worries me.

[Reincarnate]

Yeah, death itself isn't scary unless it's painful. But it is sad to think that the things I love and enjoy in my life are temporary. It saddens me that I won't see where science and technology will take us. I want to know what happens in the future and how things turn out. There are so many awesome things about the future that I will be completely unaware of and will never know. That thought depresses me immensely.

[ScylaX]

The main thing you have to cope with when it comes to dying is facing the end of your all capacity, all possibility, all power.

[Jake Ferguson]

Death raises anxiety with me, because I can't really fathom having my consciousness cease.
This is exactly how I feel about it. I have panic attacks whenever I think about my own mortality, because I'm an athiest and don't believe in any afterlife, just nothingness. Because of this, people may think it's easier to just kill themselves right now so they won't have to deal with it later, but is it really that easy to do when you are afraid of death? I've thought about it once or twice in my life, trying to find an easy way out, but the truth is life is too important to me right now than facing one of my greatest fears as an easy way out. Whenever someone I know dies, I feel the most grief not because I will miss them, but because it proves that one day I will eventually die too. And all I know is that when that day comes, I will go kicking and screaming.

[DossarLX ODI]

If people continued with the "life is worthless" attitude, I probably wouldn't even be here.

about how we should see our ends

It's inevitable, which is more than enough justification to value the importance of life in general - you and others.

and what kind of morals we should give to it

Not repeating things like Khmer Rouge. Life itself is actually priceless when you think about it; objectively, money doesn't matter if you're dead. This is why their slogan "To spare you is no profit, to destroy you is no loss" is especially scary since it basically views life as cheap.

What concerns me more about death is how it happens. If it's from something like genocide, that is what absolutely pisses me off. Old age, that is how it should be.

[shadow 1800]

If we were all immortal and had no children then life would be just as, (or if not more) depressing. You live for your children; they carry on your name and your memory. Of course you can choose not to have any children and die a lonely old man or woman with nobody left in the world to care about them. I almost guarantee anyone on their death bed would regret not having children at some point, as I know I would. The purpose of life is to see the next generation is healthy and to pass the wisdom you learned from your parents along with your experiences so they don't make the same mistakes. It is an endless cycle. Anything beyond this such as the afterlife is left for the person themselves to decide, and with death so close many seem to choose to believe in it.

[DossarLX ODI]

To me it would be much more interesting to see how the future turns out (going to your statement about immortality). You'd get to see how other generations change in ideas or methods of living with the death of the older generations.

[Emithith]

To make a fair post unlike the one I had above me, I don't think about death because it will come eventually, and I will cross that bridge when I get to it. It's better to think about the current moment and enjoy it, rather than worry about something that could happen tomorrow, or in 50 years. I don't fear the pain of death, if anything it's the mystery in it. What happens?

But as I said before, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

[hi19hi19]

I'm not particularly worried about death, because I'll be dead when it happens.

Live life in the present.

[MinaciousGrace]

people just need to accept that when the last human dies the cumulative worth of our existence will be absolutely nothing

once you accept this you can either

A) lead an enriched and fulfilling life and take the initiative to do and experience the things you want and appreciate the world for what it is in the here and now

or

B) kill yourself

both options are (imo) better than living a monotonous purposeless life desperately searching for some validation for existence that doesn't exist

either way it doesn't matter because in the end life is merely a path to death

@rubix i seriously doubt the human race will make it much farther without completely destroying/decimating to the point of irreversible regression itself but you can always hope i guess

[MagicCarpetRide]

My sociology professor once said, "death is not a detour on the road of life." Yeah.... I hated that class... but it's a good point. Death is a part of your life. That is true with all living creatures so don't freak about it.

[UserNameGoesHere]

I imagine it won't be that bad -- past the agonizing pain part that is (unless you're lucky to die in a painless manner). Any pain should be relatively quick though right? Because past a certain pain threshold I'm told you automatically pass out anyway - then you don't feel anything.

I am fine with a nonexistent state. I was in such a state prior to life, have been in such a state a few times during life (ego death), and so it's nothing new. There are no cares or worries in such a state.

[Mau5]

I'm not concerned with death, what happens happens. What matters to me is the name you make for yourself and making sure what you do while you're alive is worth it in the end. Plus, by the time my time will be rolling around shortly, i'll probably be in a diaper being spoon fed beech-nuts and applesauce, so I don't think i'll mind too much then either..

[Herogashix]

How do you live with death?

Well, for one, you don't take his cheetos.

But death isn't that bad of an ending to anything. I'd welcome death like an old friend.

[Aldentron]

a band i listen to summed it up nicely when they decided on a title for themselves: The World Is a Beautiful Place and I Am No Longer Afraid to Die. that statement really put things in perspective for me.

this probably sounds warped as **** but im aldentron, master of unpopular opinions, and i say suicide is awesome. it's an easy way to get out of meaningless existence, and also a way to end a beautiful life satisfyingly (ie after you finish your ultimate goal and realize you have no reason to live)

i wouldn't try killing myself though. instead i've dedicated my life to dying.
i strive to do the things i love as often as i can to increase the chances of dying while doing what i love.
i was inspired to do this after hearing news that a brazilian jiu jitsu instructor of mine had passed away during Pan Am competition. nobody at the gym was sad because they all knew that was the way to go out for him. if you ask me, that's a mission accomplished.

not to mention, there are entirely too many people on this planet, and the only things that really hurt when some one dies are the industries turning a profit off of them (minus the ones turning profit on their death.) mass suicide would probably solve a lot of problems.

[Reincarnate]

You're right, that's a really dumb opinion

Existence isn't meaningless when you make your own meaning

[Aldentron]

yes but then when you make life cater to your own wants and needs you start infringing on other lives, human or otherwise, in one way or another. i would rather not do that, i'm not selfish.

[Emithith]

suicide is awesome = implying there's an afterlife to go to that's better than life.

[Aldentron]

i said no such thing and that is certainly NOT what i was implying. if anything, i implied that life IS the ultimate, there is no "better" on this plane of existence. if you have experienced life then you are well qualified to end your own. that is all i was implying.

[Reincarnate]

yes but then when you make life cater to your own wants and needs you start infringing on other lives, human or otherwise, in one way or another. i would rather not do that, i'm not selfish.

That's not necessarily true at all.

I do think anyone should be able to end their life if they want to, but not everyone lives for the sake of an isolated, singular "ultimate goal" that suddenly renders the rest of life moot and meaningless after achievement.

Sometimes the "ultimate goal" is simply to live a long, happy life.

[Emithith]

i said no such thing and that is certainly NOT what i was implying. if anything, i implied that life IS the ultimate, there is no "better" on this plane of existence. if you have experienced life then you are well qualified to end your own. that is all i was implying.

I was razzing you, I knew what you meant. :P

[Aldentron]

you're right, there are some scenarios where that is not true, but lets face it, those are paths of great resistance and abstinence. most people living in modern society depend on other life to live. whether it be community infrastructure, emotional/psychological stability, or poor wages in sweat shops to mass produce decadent goods. in that sense i believe that you are infringing on other lives.

if your goal is to live a long happy life then i don't think suicide would be in your best interests in the first place

[Reincarnate]

you're right, there are some scenarios where that is not true, but lets face it, those are paths of great resistance and abstinence. most people living in modern society depend on other life to live. whether it be community infrastructure, emotional/psychological stability, or poor wages in sweat shops to mass produce decadent goods. in that sense i believe that you are infringing on other lives.

if your goal is to live a long happy life then i don't think suicide would be in your best interests in the first place

Well, I mean that's the point of society. Everyone relies on each other.

Granted, some groups are abused so others can benefit at their expense. But I don't think that means the best solution is just to off yourself. That reminds me of a story I read once where some rural family was struggling and the son hanged himself in the shower so his father would have one less mouth to feed.

That sort of mindset is obviously pretty tragic -- I think the better solution is to, well, improve various economic functions. Education and cost minimization is obviously essential for such things.

In general though, yes, we all impinge on each other. But suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, in most cases.

You could argue that staying alive and impinging is selfish, but you could also argue that killing yourself is depriving the world of a life that could have been put to helping others, yada yada. The door swings both ways if you want it to.

[korny]

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhLT8mNa1b7DbqsiW7

scroll down

[Syhto]

You say without religion, but I'd like to say Buddhism is extremely focused on the acceptance of and preparation for death, what powers life holds for us and working through our fears to find a deeper reality than we can simply analyze, by opening up our conciousness. I think there's a balance between being analytical and being in your heart, having intuition about death and being afraid of something we can't contol. Our fears surrounding death are very powerful for a reason, because when we finally get to that platform in our lives, what does everything mean? If our main fear is death, and we reach that point, what else is there to fear? There's a grasping going on constantly, there's some level of fear, because there is a lack of knowing. But what if death is supreme knowing? Sometimes it's easier to think that consciousness will cease when you die, because this is all we "know." We see people die and they lose consciousness, their body no longer moves, but isn't it still alive? Atoms, molecules, the fabric of reality and all still persists. So what is the driving force behind everything, the universe, right? And aren't we deeply connected to it, being part of it in the most direct of ways? There may be fear in you about losing your personal life, losing everything you worked for, having it all be for nothing. But every moment is new for you to come closer to doing/becoming something you really love, getting closer to who you really are, having realizations. The longer we stay in the background and ignore death, we miss out on the fruits of our heartache, on the insight we get when we ask big questions. I believe that there isn't one question you can't ask yourself and in some way find a truth.

Honestly, myself, I used to think about death almost constantly. I still think about it often, but not nearly the way I did in a supremely depressed state, dealing with the fact that everything I know would some day come to an end. Now, it's almost comforting. Actually, now thinking about death isn't hard for me at all. What's harder for me is hoping that other people think about the same things I do and we will ultimately come to a mutual understanding through all of humanity and learn to cease the madness through love. I think that's the most important thing. Although there is a lot of bullshit to get through, I don't think anything is impossible and I believe there's a bright future for all of us, regardless of if death really is the end. What's more important is living life to its fullest and being there for all other living things.

btw I am not buddhist, just advocating buddhist teachings for this subject that have helped me in my everyday life. I'm not religious per se, I'm more of a pantheist. life has soooo much to offer, I hope we can all get past our personal problems and the universe/god will shed light on our existence, and it will be beautiful. In fact I believe that is inevitable, with what amount I've seen in my life, that death isn't the end

BTW again, I suggest looking up dharma, and hindu philosophies for everyday life, along with most other religions, they give a good outline. basically work for the highest good

[shadow 1800]

Ok really though. You do not live with death, death lives with you. It's quite simple really spend your life living in fear or spend your life fighting those fears to actually have some sort of life.

[Herogashix]

Guys.
Death is death.
It's part of life.
What's there to discuss? Just try not to die until you absolutely have to.
/discussion

[Spenner]

Guys.
Death is death.
It's part of life.
What's there to discuss? Just try not to die until you absolutely have to.
/discussion

Clearly you've done some critical thinking on the matter!!!

I've had a pretty decent view mentally of what approaching death might be like, I'm getting better at suspending my emotional side with it. Once I can do that, and not have anxiety over what may or may not be, it should be a natural and maybe even relaxing transition.

[Crashfan3]

I'm glad you brought up this question because to be completely honest I never thought about it much until recently.

One month ago my grandmother, age 63, was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and I'm not going to go into all the details or pull anyone's heartstrings, but even though the doctors have said it's possible she'll survive, she has occasional days where she thinks she won't be around next year and she feels emotionally shattered.

Seeing her go through this got me thinking, what would happen if I knew my death was coming. What would I do? And to be completely honest, I don't have the damnedest idea what I would do. My grandmother has been sick off and on since 2007, plus she's elderly, so I think she's at least somewhat prepared.

Me? I'm barely out of high school. I haven't been given much of a chance to live yet, and if the next 50 years or more of my life were taken from me, I think my first natural response would be extreme anger, likely to the point where I would do something so stupid that if I lived somehow, I would spend the remainder of my life regretting it. I'm not trying to sound like an internet attention whore here, that's my honest feelings. It's a first reaction because at my core, I've always had issues with stress and anger, maybe it's some form of inner anxiety, I don't know. I'm just saying my response would not be a rational one if the doc told me "lol, yur gunna die in 6 weeks, gl hf"

So if I must die while I'm young, I hope I'm not given time to think about it. Let it be in a car crash or from a stray bullet.

I like what Syhto posted and I hope that I can mentally train myself to be ready for the day when it comes, as I watch the same events unfold upon my elders.

[Squares, the Cube]

Pass on DNA and knowledge... As long as my knowledge keeps getting applied forward through the generations, I won't die at all.

[Aldentron]

I will be attending a philosophical discussion group about death soon, here is the prerequisite listening, a Radiolab episode about the after life:
http://www.radiolab.org/2009/jul/27/

[Pizza_Pi]

Death is surely inevitable. But I don't mind if I die, for I feel no regret upon dying. That's because I lived my life as I wanted to, and did all I could in that life. I wouldn't care if someone would remember me or not, but if they did I would be happy they knew me. I would have no regrets that I lived a proper life, I have no complaints either. I live doing what I can to make the world a better place, and I'm very well happy doing that.

No entity on the face of the earth will ever truly die, for their path and their time line will always reside on the infinite time of the universe, they always have an effect, and always take up space in the physical known.

After death, there is a spirit and a soul left over, a soul without a body, with that entity still living onward. That entity may be stuck in a dilemma or problem, and continues to repeat that problem until it has been solved, until they're satisfied, and feel no regret. That is what we call ghosts. Those without regrets will not return physically. I am one without regrets, So I will not appear as a ghost of any sort.

There is far more to explain that relates to paranormal and spiritual activity, which is way too long and far off topic to explain here.

[flipsta_lombax]

I feel indifferent with death. It is inevitable, but I do appreciate that it's easily achievable. It's not something you should continuously think about lest you're suicidal. I see it as one passes, the world keeps revolving.

I've accepted that.

[who_cares973]

I will be attending a philosophical discussion group about death soon, here is the prerequisite listening, a Radiolab episode about the after life:
http://www.radiolab.org/2009/jul/27/

this is a great listen

[ledwix]

Life having no set or objective value doesn't necessarily mean that suicide is a preferred option. In fact, in a meaningless universe, there is neither any reason to live nor any reason to die. The default position is to sit around and find out what exists and prioritize certain things and try to do those things. If, for example, killing yourself is the conclusion you come to, then so be it, but of course since all of us in existence are right now in the side of the living, most of us will find the idea repulsive. But some do not. Most people feel motivation to accomplish something, interestingly enough to me. If you do not feel motivated to act in any way at all, you will of course just sit around and die of starvation/thirst.

Overall, your priorities aren't even under your control. I will get hungry tomorrow whether or not I want to. I will want to be in the company of friends tomorrow whether or not I find friendships meaningful to the ultimate fate of the universe. Reality for us beings can be incredibly solipsistic in that manner. We live as if our values and priorities are objective, but many of them are simply programmed into us, and the rest are learned over the years.

As far as death, though...it's whatever. My own death doesn't scare me as much as the deaths of people I love. When I die, I won't have anything to worry about at all, just as the 13.7 billion years before I was born didn't feel so bad at all. But those who loved me during my life will be the ones who will suffer from that.

[Xiz]

Life is like a box of bad analogies.

[ScylaX]

Okay so here I'll develop what I think so it may be more intelligible for you guys. My terms will be misty at some point and I don't pretend to hold a perfectly clear language there, and I do this, because I don't consider my opinion of this as arguable, it's more of an observation than anything else.

Really, I think the question isn't "How do you live with death" but "How do you live with life ?"

I realized death didn't make me angsty, but my whole existence, the whole presence of the world was WHAT made me ****ing angsty about life.
I have this quote from Wittgenstein : "Life is the World."
What idea does this convey ? When you die, it's just as the World basically just vanished. That's right, it just doesn't exist anymore. When you're dead, you're excluded from the time (and that's the litteral meaning of "eternity"), it just doesn't matter what will happen one minute, one hour, or one decade after you're dead, nothing that exists in this reality matter any more. Reality just crumbled. Because metaphysically, it's just as everything died just with you. Time and space isn't important anymore. I begin to understand what Cioran said about birth : the true problem isn't to die, it's truly the birth. The moment when you come to existence, when you were separated to that very state in which things weren't necessitating any lack, anything , any questioning of any sort (because there wasn't any need to do this, everything there were pure possibilities, infinite and endless).

Being. That's a metaphysical burden. It doesn't matter with who you are, how you lead your life, not even if you're standing on your feets or if you're physically and biologically common to every human being. The fact you're being, for this very moment, ontologically positive. This is the whole problem.
And then, boom, you're living, experiencing things, asking questions, facing the whole universe with a totally specific point of view (and I mean, a human point of view, the human paradigm). That's actually a question of paradigm, because you're sinked in the paradigm of being human and existing according to this condition.
You're facing the universe, you don't know how big it is (and I'm not just speaking of spatial measures, it also involves time, complexity, all these things that constitue the cosmos and what's beyond it), it just is. It's vertiginous, kinda nerve racking, because when you're facing it, deeply thinking about that and feeling a bit anxious, you're not simply facing death, you're actually facing a total ontological intuition. The existence and nonexistence of things, which includes YOUR existence.
I don't have any basis to talk about this, and nobody has these. This is really hard to make sense in my head, or in any human head. It's just because this doesn't have to make sense : logic has to make sense, science too, the inner part of the world HAS to make sense. But what wraps it, what is beyond everything just can't be eluded - to be honest, the fact it doesn't need to make any sense or whatever that can lead you to further thoughts, the fact things just are as they purely are, it confuses my critical mind, I feel like I'm facing something way, way too big to grasp (you can call it God) ; and I think we're all on the same foot when it comes to this. You're facing a gulf, deep inside a cave, and this is so dark inside even trying to turn on a flashlight doesn't brighten anything, it's not that it's getting absorbed, it's just that it can't pass through this air.

So then, what to do with your life once you have this in mind ?
Actually, nothing specific. To be is an opportunity (and this is a true, horrid waste to suicide yourself - first because I consider a human life is sacred (and I'm not talking about this pro-life/pro-choice bullshit, this is another problem, a PRACTICAL problem), second because there is a LOT of other opportunities when life still grants you the possibilities to be physically autonomous. If you begin to contemplate suicide, and really want to do it, because you consider you don't have any other choice to fix your situation, instead of suiciding, just flee somewhere, leading for a better life, stop taking your situation seriously if you planned to die there, you have nothing to lose. Nothing.), in that case you just have to live in the world, fullfilling your deepest needs (if you don't need philosophy, then wait till you need it) ; I really don't know, I'm not that good of a moralist but you got the idea there. Just do what is necessary to view the world as a good place. Because the world is bad only if you motivate yourself to truly think that (remember the quote I put earlier). Just try to lead a sane and healthy life, something you can be proud of.
Finding sense to life is utter bullshit to me, because you can't find any, it isn't about "being happy" or "fulfilling it", don't put these superb, idealistic goals. Just aim for the simplicity instead of directly losing yourself in deep and metaphysical notions (I guess people tend to to that, to jump all the fundamental steps, because they think they are in a hurry or something - there's no better way to waste your life to me), I think this is a key.

I consider the pure existence as a complete misery. But this will not prevent me to enjoy this opportunity to life and experience things.
Yeah, this is just basically how I view things, a nice tl;dr if you ask me.