View Full Version : Cheating in Relationships
richhhhhard
07-14-2009, 10:27 PM
Divorce rates today are MUCH higher than they were in previous generations.
(50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 74% of third marriages end in divorce, according to Jennifer Baker of the Forest Institute of Professional Psychology in Springfield, Missouri.)
There are many causes for the end of a relationship, but one of the main contributers is often unfaithfulness. My question is, assuming that one marries for love, SHOULD you be upset about a spouse (or boyfriend or girlfriend) being unfaithful?
I would never cheat on someone, I do not see the point. However, if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy? If a physical connection, or the thrill and passion involved, makes that person happier, why would you want to keep them from that? Is there anything more than jealousy involved here?
Exceptions I see to this would be STDs, pregnancy, or loss of affection for the loved one. If handled responsibly, though, and none of these things occur, is there really a problem?
Just a thought, curious what everybody might think.
Vanilla Mnm
07-14-2009, 10:34 PM
That's an interesting point of view. I look at it as a dedication type of thing. You want them to be happy, but not with another person. If you get married to them, you are dedicated to each other. Cheating is the complete opposite. Of course there would be a jealousy thing going on. If you *truly* love someone & have them cheat on you, then of course you'd be jealous.
EDIT: Just noticed this was in Critical Thinking (A place I like to avoid lol) I feel like a Critical Thinker now. :D
I am kind of confused as to what the question is. Are you asking if someone should be upset for getting cheat on? Because who wouldn't be upset. And if you get cheat on then that person clearly isn't right for you.
sonofr
07-14-2009, 10:46 PM
Uhhh, 50% of first marriages?
super kid
07-14-2009, 11:00 PM
Girls with boyfriends, the ones i go for.
korny
07-14-2009, 11:06 PM
The answer put simply is no.
It is only considered cheating to begin with, because us humans as a majority, have used sex, considered the greatest act of physical satisfaction, as an action that is reserved only between the partners within the marriage. It is then blown out of proportion, almost as if it's some unwritten guideline as to how this subject of “such treachery” should be handled.
So no, besides sheer jealousy and all the aforementioned other exceptions that I can agree with, the real problem of the matter fails to present itself. I try to make it a point, to only interact with other women who share my same, more rational views to avoid the senseless drama that ensues.
richhhhhard
07-14-2009, 11:27 PM
I am kind of confused as to what the question is. Are you asking if someone should be upset for getting cheat on? Because who wouldn't be upset. And if you get cheat on then that person clearly isn't right for you.
That is basically what I was asking, and I do not think that I would be upset. I have never been cheated on (that I know of), but my last girlfriend broke up with me for someone else. I was upset for a long time, but after thinking about it a lot it seems like a stupid thing to be upset about. If I really liked her I would have WANTED her to be with who she wanted to be with right? Not to stay with me against her will to avoid hurting me. I see that and unfaithfulness in the same way. If someone I cared about really WANTED to do something would it be selfish for me to keep them from doing it because of my own jealousy?
Oh, and what are you doing in here Korny?
get out of here.
I guess that would be the case if you cared enough about someone who didn't care that much about you back.
Don't see any reason why you shouldn't at least be a little upset that you didn't get to be with her. But if it wasn't meant to be then you should probably get over it and hope she ends up with someone good for her.
richhhhhard
07-14-2009, 11:55 PM
I guess that would be the case if you cared enough about someone who didn't care that much about you back.
I guess that is what it comes down to in the end.
Don't see any reason why you shouldn't at least be a little upset that you didn't get to be with her. But if it wasn't meant to be then you should probably get over it and hope she ends up with someone good for her.
What reason is there to be upset? I guess this is really what the debate boils down to: do you love someone to make yourself happy or to make your lover happy? Because if it is for yourself then I can see why you would be upset. If it is for them then their happiness should be more important than your desires. If that were the case them finding someone "better" would be good news if it made them more happy. The point is that no one ever feels like that because love is not selfless. It seems that love is much more about fulfilling our own pleasures than calmly considering the thoughts or feelings of our significant other.
Oh, and to clarify, me and korny went to high school together. I was not being serious when I told him to leave.
TK_goelo
07-15-2009, 01:10 AM
Interesting and theoretically correct point of view, however of course you're gonna feel jealousy, if you were with a girl enough time to be able to say you indeed loved her, you're gonna feel like sh*t when she dumps you.
I'm talking over experience, my year and a half now ex girlfriend dumped me for another guy and man, does it hurts.( It's been a month since that... yeah)
I do agree with your point of view, that if you truly love her/him, you want them to be happy, even if they're with someone else.
And from every point of view, cheating is inmature and means you're not ready for a real relationship.
If that's you guys in your avatar I'd suggest changing it.
And there is tons of reasons to be upset. I love my girl because that makes her happy and it makes me happy. While you might care about the girl enough to be ok with her perusing her own happiness you can't neglect your own feelings enough to say they don't matter. Both people in a relationship are equal and both of their feelings should be taken into consideration.
So saying that you don't have any reason to be upset is like putting her above you as a human being when honestly she should be a little bit below you since she cheated on you and obviously doesn't care about your feelings.
richhhhhard
07-15-2009, 02:26 AM
Interesting and theoretically correct point of view, however of course you're gonna feel jealousy, if you were with a girl enough time to be able to say you indeed loved her, you're gonna feel like sh*t when she dumps you.
I'm talking over experience, my year and a half now ex girlfriend dumped me for another guy and man, does it hurts.( It's been a month since that... yeah)
I do agree with your point of view, that if you truly love her/him, you want them to be happy, even if they're with someone else.
And from every point of view, cheating is inmature and means you're not ready for a real relationship.
I am really sorry man, I know that is not a fun situation. But, this applies to you quite a bit then. It took me about a year to get over my first serious girlfriend. That is a year that I wasted feeling sorry for myself for more or less no reason. Looking back, it seems like that was a year that shows how much I was in that relationship for myself and my own needs. How little she actually meant to me. Is that how every relationship is though? I really don't know. I would like to hope that it is not, but as long as jealousy and dishonesty and traits such as that are the driving force of our actions than I do not see how it could be any other way. You cannot control anyone else, or how they feel about you, all you can control is yourself, and how you treat someone. If someone cheats on you that is out of your control, how you react is, however, well within your control. I am not saying it is right or wrong either way, obviously every situation is different.
Oh, and it sucks really bad now I know, but as soon as it gets better it gets WAY better. Don't let it get you too down.
If that's you guys in your avatar I'd suggest changing it.
And there is tons of reasons to be upset. I love my girl because that makes her happy and it makes me happy. While you might care about the girl enough to be ok with her perusing her own happiness you can't neglect your own feelings enough to say they don't matter. Both people in a relationship are equal and both of their feelings should be taken into consideration.
I agree that both people are equal, and that both feelings should be taken into consideration. BUT if your girlfriend did something that most people would consider "wrong" that did not bother you (like lying to you about something that didn't matter, she was lying which is almost never good, but it had no impact on anything, so you don't care that it is wrong) would it really be "wrong?"
If you looked at an act of unfaithfulness in the same light would it be any different?
I guess this is not remaining equal, because you are forced to discard your pride, while she is allowed to do something that is not easy for you to accept. My thoughts were merely that in the long run, what would really change from such a situation? Clearly it changes a lot, it ruins trust, breaks promises, hurts feelings, ect. I just think that in the long run it is more about pride than any of those things.
You seem to have more of a realist view on love than the romantic ideal that love is selflessness. In the end, I don't know if that goes far enough though, I think that all of it is for ourselves. For example, when you said "I love my girl because that makes her happy and it makes me happy." I know it is splitting hairs, but you like her being happy BECAUSE it makes you happy.
So saying that you don't have any reason to be upset is like putting her above you as a human being when honestly she should be a little bit below you since she cheated on you and obviously doesn't care about your feelings.
When I read "saying that you don't have any reason to be upset is like putting her above you as a human being when honestly she should be a little bit below you since..." I honestly thought you were going to say since she is a woman. I thought that was really funny, but I see what you are saying. I don't know if it is fair to say that she doesn't care about your feelings though. Everyone makes mistakes, whether it is getting angry over something stupid, lying about something you shouldn't, or letting passion lead to something that shouldn't happen, I don't see much of a difference. We can strive for perfection all we want but we will never achieve it. I suppose giving up wouldn't exactly be a good idea either though.
I still say it that if you *truly* cared about someone your feelings would not be a factor though, but that you are equals because they should feel the same way about you. That will most likely not ever *truly* happen though, so if you are a person that feels that way for someone I see it as more beneficial to be happy being there for them as much as you can despite any shortcomings that they may have (to an extent obviously).
I don't really see cheating as something stupid or a little mistake. I find it to be pretty deliberate and easily avoidable if you cared at all about your current relationship.
"woops, I randomly went over to this guys house and we accidentally had sex."
Necros140606
07-15-2009, 02:39 AM
the problem resides in the conception of relationships. so far, we've restricted sexuality between the walls of marriage and man-women interaction. i'd say this is a pretty dumb way to expletate this phisiological need. animals in general (don't forget we are too!) develop their relationship habits through evolution, therefore the habit which grants the best survival chances is the one passed on. we humans, on the other hand, do not strive for survival. our choices should be regulated by the logic of major pleasure for the self *AND* the others. a single person relationhip does not satisfy this need, and it is rather a surpassed view.
korny
07-15-2009, 02:45 AM
Perhaps you encountered a situation that truly tested the limits of human flaws and human nature. A man, statistically far more susceptible to giving into sexual desires, is at a bar, has a good amount of drinks, meets a woman who he engages in conversation with finds there is great chemistry between them not to mention is inebriated. Leaves the bar without the woman only to find out she lives across the street as she's just exited her vehicle as he has. This man's wife has been away on business for 7 months. I think we all understand how this scenario could unfold and not be considered totally inexcusable no? I don't think it could be considered completely deliberate at all even without a situation of this magnitude. That's a very black and white way of thinking that is hardly fair, but maybe that's just me.
Well yea, That is pretty extreme. I can only hope that doesn't happen that often.
Blue Bird
07-15-2009, 02:49 AM
I would never cheat on someone, I do not see the point. However, if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy? If a physical connection, or the thrill and passion involved, makes that person happier, why would you want to keep them from that? Is there anything more than jealousy involved here?
It's not just jealousy - it's the feeling of betrayal. When your partner cheats, they either tell you, or you find out. Either way, you feel betrayed. You trusted that person, and they did something behind your back. Just because you love them, and want them to be happy regardless of what the decide, it doesn't make things better. It doesn't give them the right to do whatever the **** they want, and you have to be OK because you love them. For cheating to apply, we have to assume that both sides are affectionate for each other, and care about each other to an extent. Someone loves you, and by cheating on them you're basically just taking their love and stepping over it. No decent person would do that on purpose. That's why people usually feel bad after they cheat. No matter how much you still love them, it's not just because you're jealous they did it with someone else. In some rare cases, it is understandable. But in a lot of others, I think there's more than just jealousy when it comes to cheating.
And yeah sorry I wrote it all in one huge paragraph. xD Just woke up and didn't know where to break. :p
super kid
07-15-2009, 03:18 AM
If you are jealous, then there is lack of trust. If you trust your partner enough to feel that he/she is going to cheat on you then that's a problem.
It's simple, if you loose affection for your partner try everything you can to try and save the marriage, if not don't stay with them. I mean yes, it does hurt when someone you love just dumped you, but it hurts less if they dumped you before they cheated on you then if they did it after they had cheated and you found out.
richhhhhard
07-15-2009, 03:27 AM
So many thoughts.
I don't really see cheating as something stupid or a little mistake. I find it to be pretty deliberate and easily avoidable if you cared at all about your current relationship.
"woops, I randomly went over to this guys house and we accidentally had sex."
I thought that was pretty funny, but either way, that is still the way YOU see it, right?
As korny was saying, alcohol can make you do things that you do not mean to do. A lot of people like to think that you are still in control of your actions even when you are drunk, but sometimes that is really not the case. Alcohol affects pretty much every part of your body, including the neurological synapses in your brain. This is the reason that sometimes people don't remember what happened, your brain becomes unable to store memories.
Anyway, this isn't a lecture on alcohol, it is just the fact that there can be cases that it is explainable.
the problem resides in the conception of relationships. so far, we've restricted sexuality between the walls of marriage and man-women interaction. i'd say this is a pretty dumb way to expletate this phisiological need. animals in general (don't forget we are too!) develop their relationship habits through evolution, therefore the habit which grants the best survival chances is the one passed on. we humans, on the other hand, do not strive for survival. our choices should be regulated by the logic of major pleasure for the self *AND* the others. a single person relationhip does not satisfy this need, and it is rather a surpassed view.
I agree with *most* of what you said, however "a single person relationhip does not satisfy this need, and it is rather a surpassed view," is not really something you can say. You can say that for yourself, but some people *can* feel satisfied in single person relationships. It just depends on the person.
Perhaps you encountered a situation that truly tested the limits of human flaws and human nature. A man, statistically far more susceptible to giving into sexual desires, is at a bar, has a good amount of drinks, meets a woman who he engages in conversation with finds there is great chemistry between them not to mention is inebriated. Leaves the bar without the woman only to find out she lives across the street as she's just exited her vehicle as he has. This man's wife has been away on business for 7 months. I think we all understand how this scenario could unfold and not be considered totally inexcusable no? I don't think it could be considered completely deliberate at all even without a situation of this magnitude. That's a very black and white way of thinking that is hardly fair, but maybe that's just me.
I didn't really consider specific situations when thinking about this, it may seem unlikely that things like that happen, but situations like that do occur. It's called a movie.
But really this is a good point. Because how many people do you think wake up in the morning thinking "I am going to cheat on my spouse today!" Obviously in most cases it is something that can be controlled, but sometimes even then that doesn't mean it is unforgivable.
Thanks for an example of a situation in which it may be understandable.
It's not just jealousy - it's the feeling of betrayal. When your partner cheats, they either tell you, or you find out. Either way, you feel betrayed. You trusted that person, and they did something behind your back. Just because you love them, and want them to be happy regardless of what the decide, it doesn't make things better. It doesn't give them the right to do whatever the **** they want, and you have to be OK because you love them. For cheating to apply, we have to assume that both sides are affectionate for each other, and care about each other to an extent. Someone loves you, and by cheating on them you're basically just taking their love and stepping over it. No decent person would do that on purpose. That's why people usually feel bad after they cheat. No matter how much you still love them, it's not just because you're jealous they did it with someone else. In some rare cases, it is understandable. But in a lot of others, I think there's more than just jealousy when it comes to cheating.
And yeah sorry I wrote it all in one huge paragraph. xD Just woke up and didn't know where to break. :p
I see what you are saying, but this is kind of going in circles. You said it was more the feeling of betrayal than jealousy, but why do you feel betrayed? Because they lied to you? Because they went behind your back? Because they hurt you. All this is saying to me is that love really is completely selfish, because when they do something that hurts you it is unforgivable. You said "Someone loves you, and by cheating on them you're basically just taking their love and stepping over it. No decent person would do that on purpose," so if we assume that they both love each other and one cheats on the other, because that person did something that broke that love, it causes you to stop loving them. It seems like what you are saying is that you love them loving you, because when they stop it makes you stop.
super kid
07-15-2009, 03:50 AM
Cheating is not heat of passion, its premeditated. People plan to cheat on their partner, unless they were under the influence or drugs, or alcohol. It can be prevented. People cheat because either they don't feel loved anymore, or they really don't care at all in which they shouldn't be in the relationship in the first place.
korny
07-15-2009, 04:01 AM
Cheating is not heat of passion, its premeditated. People plan to cheat on their partner, unless they were under the influence or drugs, or alcohol. It can be prevented. People cheat because either they don't feel loved anymore, or they really don't care at all in which they shouldn't be in the relationship in the first place.
Wait seriously? So I knew I was going to eventually meet someone else who also had amazing chemistry, who happened to kiss me suddenly and thus flooding my mind with a sense of impaired judgment leading to sex? Those things do happen and more unexpectedly than you think. Give me a break.
Rich I'm curious. If you were with a girl, and she told you she had sex with someone the other day, but you could deduce through body language and such that she meant it when she said she still genuinely cares about you and likes you more than the other person undoubtedly, that you would not really care either way?
Blue Bird
07-15-2009, 04:31 AM
I see what you are saying, but this is kind of going in circles. You said it was more the feeling of betrayal than jealousy, but why do you feel betrayed? Because they lied to you? Because they went behind your back? Because they hurt you. All this is saying to me is that love really is completely selfish, because when they do something that hurts you it is unforgivable. You said "Someone loves you, and by cheating on them you're basically just taking their love and stepping over it. No decent person would do that on purpose," so if we assume that they both love each other and one cheats on the other, because that person did something that broke that love, it causes you to stop loving them. It seems like what you are saying is that you love them loving you, because when they stop it makes you stop.
No no. Sorry, you misunderstood. I believe it's perfectly possible to forgive someone after they've cheated on you. Sure it hurts, but it's not the end of the world, especially if the person who cheated feels sorry for what they did, and still wants to be with you. It's up to the person who got cheated, though. Cheating does sometimes happen accidentally. It's stupid, yes. And irresponsible. It's like staying up all night playing videogames, knowing that you have work due tomorrow which you haven't done.
Just because someone loves another person though, doesn't give that person the right to do everything they want. You may still love them, but it doesn't make it right, and anyone with the least amount of self-respect will say enough's enough after they get cheated on more than once. Sure, you want them to be happy and do well in life, but where's the sense in getting together with that someone if they're just gonna go behind your back with someone else? Like you said, there has to be trust in a relationship, but what happens when that trust is broken? It's not selfish to be upset or hurt, or even mad with them, even though you love them. And I don't think it's got anything to do with jealousy.
There are certain things we expect from people. If you're about to cross a busy avenue, and there's someone behind you, you expect them not to just shove you in front of a bus. When you're in a relationship and you trust each other, you expect the person not to cheat on you. If it does happen, things didn't really go as you expected, and that makes you angry, frustrated, upset, etc. "How could you do this to me?" and so on. It doesn't make it selfish, though. We can't expect any other reaction from this situation, because if the cheated one just goes "oh that's OK honey just don't do it again" then that person has a problem. If the person just goes "yeah OK, whatever" then they obviously don't care about the relationship.
For cheating to occur, the other person has to feel "cheated". This feeling can occur outside the relationship scenario, but still triggers the same responses.
8Shade8
07-15-2009, 04:35 AM
I would never cheat on someone, I do not see the point. However, if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy? If a physical connection, or the thrill and passion involved, makes that person happier, why would you want to keep them from that? Is there anything more than jealousy involved here?
As far as I am concerned, most people in serious relationships that end in cheating are because one of the significant others has found something better that they like in someone else. In my opinion I would say that the majority of breakups are either a woman feels that she likes another man's personality better, or a man feels like his g/f isn't putting out enough. I think it is safe to say that 6/10 men are sexually driven and 6/10 women are emotionally driven.
From personal experience, I have had the "women likes another man's personality better" scenario happen to me two times now. Twice now, I have been in a serious relationship. The first one was really decent. The girl I was with was very intelligent, and I really enjoyed her company. We had a good relationship with each other until I joined the Army. She was very Democratic and against the war etc, however, eventually what it boiled down to was that she saw something else she liked in other men. (She was smart about it though, unlike my second girlfriend...I will get to that in the next paragraph). I do not know if she was with another guy or whatever, but eventually she told me to **** off because she likes "assholes". I was like wtf....I am not an asshole by nature, I stand up for myself sure, but I am not a dick to women. Apparently she doesn't like the romantic type. After the depression, and steps of denial and whatnot, I finally got over it and decided to move on.
Second relationship was the same way, except she wasn't quite as intelligent. I had actually proposed to her and we were supposed to get married before I went to Iraq. As it turns out, she decided to cheat on me and her reasoning was that "Joe you are just too nice". Again...wtf. I say she wasn't as intelligent because she actually TRIED to INTRODUCE the guy to my face and break up with me at the same time. Needless to say he ended up in the ER with a broken nose and I slept in a jail cell that night.
So I went to Iraq all emotionally ****ed up. The point of this is to answer the quoted question at the top of my post: ".....if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy?" The answer to that is absolutely! First I must define "love". If I had to define "love" in my own words: Love - The unconditional caring of the people who are important to you. Of course I was enraged and I wanted to kill their new boyfriends, however, I am a bit more mature than that. I let them go be happy. After much analysis I concluded that I am 20 years old, and have a very long time to search for someone else. Younger ages are for exploring what type of women and men you like. If she want's try out different things with different people to see what can and will make her happy, I would let her do it. It would be MUCH more generous of her to let me know about it in a mature manner and not lead me on to think that she loves me more than anything in the world when she is really considering how to ditch me to try out someone else.
super kid
07-15-2009, 04:37 AM
Wait seriously? So I knew I was going to eventually meet someone else who also had amazing chemistry, who happened to kiss me suddenly and thus flooding my mind with a sense of impaired judgment leading to sex?
Wait what? People that are married don't usually think they are going to meet someone else who had amazing chemistry. What you just said there makes it sound like that person was going to cheat if they found that person with "amazing chemistry." Also why would you be alone with that person anyway, and how would you know that person has amazing chemistry? Don't you think you would know that person for awhile to figure out he/she has the chemistry?
Blue Bird
07-15-2009, 04:46 AM
Wait what? People that are married don't usually think they are going to meet someone else who had amazing chemistry. What you just said there makes it sound like that person was going to cheat if they found that person with "amazing chemistry." Also why would you be alone with that person anyway, and how would you know that person has amazing chemistry? Don't you think you would know that person for awhile to figure out he/she has the chemistry?
All I can say here is... **** happens. I can think of a few scenarios where you would be alone with someone else. You think nothing is going to happen, but it's hard to tell, especially when the other person is interested in you, and even though you may be happy with your current relationship, that person has something which is attractive to you. Some people can just stop it all before it happens.
I'm just gonna throw it out there though, there's a difference between just cheating, and actually having an affair with someone else. If you have an affair, then yeah - that's your **** up. You know you're ****ing up, and you're doing it anyway. But there's also that one time thing that you regret moments after it's over. It's different. I'd say becomes an affair the moment you plan on doing it again.
richhhhhard
07-15-2009, 04:48 AM
Wait seriously? So I knew I was going to eventually meet someone else who also had amazing chemistry, who happened to kiss me suddenly and thus flooding my mind with a sense of impaired judgment leading to sex? Those things do happen and more unexpectedly than you think. Give me a break.
I don't think that his claim was necessarily ridiculous. Unless your mind is impaired you *do* know what you are doing, and that it is "wrong." But that isn't really the point of the argument.
Rich I'm curious. If you were with a girl, and she told you she had sex with someone the other day, but you could deduce through body language and such that she meant it when she said she still genuinely cares about you and likes you more than the other person undoubtedly, that you would not really care either way?
I can not say for sure that i would not care, because it has not happened. Honestly though, what is the big deal? Is sex what makes a relationship? Everyone has a different idea of love and sex and how they relate, so obviously it is going to be different for everyone. But in the end what is happening? Another guy is kissing her, and or, putting his penis inside her vagina. Oh no! Does that change anything that has happened between you and her? Does that make all of your memories less meaningful?
You could look at it two ways. One way would be that sex is a sign of love, that you only share between someone that you truly love.
Another would be that sex is a pleasurable experience that both people enjoy.
Depending on your stance it would most likely change your opinion on this debate quite a lot.
In my opinion, it does not really matter. Obviously I would prefer it not to happen, but I think that if I had to choose between her being UNhappy being faithful and happy being UNfaithful, I would want her to be happy. It seems selfish any other way, no matter how you rationalize it. Trying to rationalize love rarely works out though...
But to look at it another way, consider if she was unfaithful and never said anything, and you never found out. Would it change anything then? If you continued living happily, everything was normal, and no one got hurt. So what is the difference there and when the cheater confesses due to guilt? The one that felt bad about it is punished while the one that did not is not. So what did the *act* of cheating really change? Absolutely nothing(outside of the exceptions mentioned), the only thing that is affected is YOUR feelings when you find out.
I feel like I am defending people that cheat on their loved ones, that is not what I am trying to do though. I was just trying to question peoples reasoning and motives behind it. And also if it is any more "right" to retaliate by ending the relationship, or making them feel terrible (because they hurt you is it right to hurt them?).
korny
07-15-2009, 05:00 AM
Sometimes there are those instances that defy normal occurences between 2 people, and likewise, seemingly unparallel chemistry between 2 persons can be unexpectedly discovered between more than just your own wife. The woman you're married to seemed like miss perfect, until one day you're on a flight on business engaging in conversation with someone who might have you convinced she's even better in such a short amount of time. I don't even feel as if a scenario of this calibre is necessary to depict how such instances can occur. I also don't think it's really necessary to have to explain how that's just one scenario out of so many others that could happen just like it. In such scenarios, situations can always occur beyond what we ever expected to happen. Nothing is ever as certain as we convince ourselves to believe regarding the vows of marriage.
Basically it all boils down to human nature and the flaws associated with that, and each individuals means for justifying their behavior towards the different aspects within their relationship. I don't think it's fair for anyone to say that I “love” or respect someone less because we openly have sex with other people and are aware. Certain guidelines are set within your own relationship and it is between the couple to fully understand them.
Blue Bird
07-15-2009, 05:00 AM
No it's not right to hurt them, just because they hurt you. That's kiddy stuff. You see it in movies a lot, though. The person cheats ends up getting shot by their partner, or something. >_> It's hard to say what's going on in their mind, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's a selfish act.
And dude, if she wants to be happy and UNfaithful, that's fine with me. It's not like she's the only girl in the world. And sure I love her, but I'd rather be with someone who loves me back, enough to be happy AND faithful with me.
super kid
07-15-2009, 05:03 AM
No it's not right to hurt them, just because they hurt you. That's kiddy stuff. You see it in movies a lot, though. The person cheats ends up getting shot by their partner, or something. >_>
Steve Mcnair, and Arturo Gatti. It happens a lot in real life.
richhhhhard
07-15-2009, 05:04 AM
Sorry to double post, more to respond to...
There are certain things we expect from people. If you're about to cross a busy avenue, and there's someone behind you, you expect them not to just shove you in front of a bus.
Haha, that made me laugh. I see what you are saying too, sorry I misunderstood the first time.
As far as I am concerned, most people in serious relationships that end in cheating are because one of the significant others has found something better that they like in someone else. In my opinion I would say that the majority of breakups are either a woman feels that she likes another man's personality better, or a man feels like his g/f isn't putting out enough. I think it is safe to say that 6/10 men are sexually driven and 6/10 women are emotionally driven.
From personal experience, I have had the "women likes another man's personality better" scenario happen to me two times now. Twice now, I have been in a serious relationship. The first one was really decent. The girl I was with was very intelligent, and I really enjoyed her company. We had a good relationship with each other until I joined the Army. She was very Democratic and against the war etc, however, eventually what it boiled down to was that she saw something else she liked in other men. (She was smart about it though, unlike my second girlfriend...I will get to that in the next paragraph). I do not know if she was with another guy or whatever, but eventually she told me to **** off because she likes "assholes". I was like wtf....I am not an asshole by nature, I stand up for myself sure, but I am not a dick to women. Apparently she doesn't like the romantic type. After the depression, and steps of denial and whatnot, I finally got over it and decided to move on.
Second relationship was the same way, except she wasn't quite as intelligent. I had actually proposed to her and we were supposed to get married before I went to Iraq. As it turns out, she decided to cheat on me and her reasoning was that "Joe you are just too nice". Again...wtf. I say she wasn't as intelligent because she actually TRIED to INTRODUCE the guy to my face and break up with me at the same time. Needless to say he ended up in the ER with a broken nose and I slept in a jail cell that night.
So I went to Iraq all emotionally ****ed up. The point of this is to answer the quoted question at the top of my post: ".....if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy?" The answer to that is absolutely! First I must define "love". If I had to define "love" in my own words: Love - The unconditional caring of the people who are important to you. Of course I was enraged and I wanted to kill their new boyfriends, however, I am a bit more mature than that. I let them go be happy. After much analysis I concluded that I am 20 years old, and have a very long time to search for someone else. Younger ages are for exploring what type of women and men you like. If she want's try out different things with different people to see what can and will make her happy, I would let her do it. It would be MUCH more generous of her to let me know about it in a mature manner and not lead me on to think that she loves me more than anything in the world when she is really considering how to ditch me to try out someone else.
Damn, sorry that happened twice. From my experience young girls don't like nice guys but after the teen years it reverses, so I wouldn't change too much if I were you. And I agree that in any situation handling it responsibly and not concealing what is happening would be the better thing to do.
All I can say here is... **** happens. I can think of a few scenarios where you would be alone with someone else. You think nothing is going to happen, but it's hard to tell, especially when the other person is interested in you, and even though you may be happy with your current relationship, that person has something which is attractive to you. Some people can just stop it all before it happens.
I'm just gonna throw it out there though, there's a difference between just cheating, and actually having an affair with someone else. If you have an affair, then yeah - that's your **** up. You know you're ****ing up, and you're doing it anyway. But there's also that one time thing that you regret moments after it's over. It's different. I'd say becomes an affair the moment you plan on doing it again.
Yeah, that is a good point. If it gets to that point, and it is being done despite her knowing how it makes you feel then that would not be something that could just be ignored. I guess it just comes down to each individuals feelings on the situation.
richhhhhard
07-15-2009, 05:16 AM
Basically it all boils down to human nature and the flaws associated with that, and each individuals means for justifying their behavior towards the different aspects within their relationship. I don't think it's fair for anyone to say that I “love” or respect someone less because we openly have sex with other people and are aware. Certain guidelines are set within your own relationship and it is between the couple to fully understand them.
I definitely agree. Each individual relationship will be much different than any other. That statement could be made about anything though. Each individual must find justification for all of their behavior in life. It is the same for behavior in a relationship.
No it's not right to hurt them, just because they hurt you. That's kiddy stuff. You see it in movies a lot, though. The person cheats ends up getting shot by their partner, or something. >_> It's hard to say what's going on in their mind, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's a selfish act.
And dude, if she wants to be happy and UNfaithful, that's fine with me. It's not like she's the only girl in the world. And sure I love her, but I'd rather be with someone who loves me back, enough to be happy AND faithful with me.
It does happen a lot, it is kind of sad. I guess getting cheated on is kind of sad too though. I would jump to that conclusion though, cause what act is NOT selfish?
I would rather be with someone that was happy AND faithful too, I was just saying given the choice... But we just can't always choose everything in life. I would like to be a millionaire rapping astronaut, but sadly my dream will never come true. Sometimes we just have to make the best out of what we do have I think.
well the leading cause of divorces is marriage.
That being said, no one should ever cheat or be "unfaithful" to anyone. There's no excuse either way. Even if your bf and gf or w/e you are. If you're with someone, that's saying you have a commitment and you are with that person. You can't be commited to someone while sleeping with someone else.
MrRubix
08-2-2009, 02:49 AM
My question is, assuming that one marries for love, SHOULD you be upset about a spouse (or boyfriend or girlfriend) being unfaithful?
However, if you really love someone doesn't that mean that you always want them to be happy? If a physical connection, or the thrill and passion involved, makes that person happier, why would you want to keep them from that? Is there anything more than jealousy involved here?
I would say it all depends on the relationship. People often forget that there's no one right way to "have a relationship." It's entirely dependent upon the type of people involved and how they are compatible (or incompatible).
First off, it really depends on how you define cheating. I usually define it as either physical or emotional. Physical cheating = fooling around/kissing/having sex with someone else not in the relationship. Emotional cheating = Having stronger romantic feelings for someone else and sharing a greater level of emotional intimacy.
Now, you ask "shouldn't I always want them to be happy?" If I were in a relationship with a girl who felt that she would be happier with someone else, I'd rather she at least tell me so we could break up. She would be happier pursuing her own thing, and I would be able to find a greater level of happiness by finding someone who more closely shares my core views/values in relationships. For me to "condone" cheating as "something to make my partner happy" would make me unhappy because it would undermine the underlying intimacy in various aspects of the relationship, and that's something I wouldn't tolerate.
Flaming_Dingleberry
08-2-2009, 04:57 AM
Cheating in relationships is worse than cheating on a test.
That's how I feel about it.
Cavernio
08-6-2009, 01:05 PM
I wonder if people would be as hurt about people being unfaithful and cheating if polygamy were part of our culture.
devonin
08-6-2009, 09:46 PM
I think that the majority of people who cheat on someone either don't actually love the person they cheated on, or don't actually love the person they cheated with.
Polygamy would address neither of those issues. If the person was married to both, say, such that it wasn't "cheating" I suspect they would just cheat on them both with someone else.
I suspect, though correct me if your experience contradicts this, that most people who cheat are not cheating because what they really wish they had was a serious romantic relationship with all parties involved.
kommisar[os]
08-6-2009, 11:48 PM
psychologically, after being with a girl for sometime or depending on your attachment, you become used to her. used to having her for yourself. of course jealousy will ensue and create this sort of drama, but its nearly inevitable since we're posessive creatures by nature
Frozen Beat
08-8-2009, 03:23 AM
Not quite, sometimes it goes from confusion to uncomfort to hate.
There are also some maniacs with willpower to go against being controlled by natural urges.
Nyokou
09-15-2009, 07:30 PM
I know someone who has cheated on his wife more than once over the course of maybe 5 years and it's been 5 years since he last did it. I'm not entirely sure if his wife know, but I think she might cause she knows about his addiction to pornography, but they are still together. They have four children and they seem to be really happy together as a couple still, even though she jokes about divorcing him sometimes. However, I think she might get serious about it later on... but then again I don't think she wants to because she would definitely be alone. I know her husband also sincerely loves her. They've been together for 20 years now and he is really sensitive when it comes to being away from her almost all day because of work. I can't imagine how he would react if they got divorced and it would really suck for the kids too, but I definitely know they are not staying together just because of their children. He really loves her even though he cheated on her but she doesn't really love him in the same way.
Just thought I'd throw that into the conversation because I have a real different view on cheating. I guess to sum it up, I think some people just do it because of lust and not because they want to feel emotionally attached to someone else. Maybe it's because his wife is older and the women he was with were younger... Maybe he just wanted a way to relieve his lustful desires because his wife was always tired or never home or he wanted to try something different. I really can't explain it, and it bothers me.
Girls with boyfriends, the ones i go for.
youre completely grimy and lack any sense of morality.
cheating is in my opinion one of the worst things you can do to your spouse or girl/boyfriend. i think its one of the worst things you could do period. a relationship, whether it be a childish high school deal or a serious commitment is just that - a commitment. if youre filthy and selfish enough to break that commitment than youre pretty low. ive never been cheated on, but ive heard from people who have that it hurts. cheating is basically telling the person that youre with that they arent good enough; that they arent satisfying. i try and avoid the type of people who would cheat.
atalkingcow
09-19-2009, 03:09 PM
I'm perfectly okay with cheating... so much that every relationship I've been in has been open. (Aka, sleep with whomever you want, just make sure i'm getting mine.)
It actually works out quite well, since most men who cheat want to feel like they don't have to follow your damned rules, but they won't get that same sense of "getting away with it" if its perfectly okay.
None of them have actually used the allowance to sleep with other people, fyi, and neither have I. Except of course in 3somes where my partner was involved too.
As an aside: This is Critical THINKING, not Critical Feeling.
OnixRose
09-20-2009, 01:07 AM
i try and avoid the type of people who would cheat.
Really hard to do imo regardless of how long or how well you "know" the person. At least with my experiences the girls I thought I knew turned out to be much more cavalier than they would have ever let on.
atalkingcow
09-20-2009, 02:54 AM
what i gather from that post is that youre a virgin who has never been in any meaningful relationship
Actually, I just got out of a relationship that had to end because he was being sent off to Europe by the navy. I'm not doing the long-distance ****, and neither was he.
For the person who asked, I say "partner" because whenever I say "my boyfriend" people go, "Wait... but... you is boy!" and then I have to hurt a puppy.
A relationship doesn't have to be monogamous for it to be meaningful, fyi. Your view of the world appears to be rather narrow.
And again, as an aside: Insulting me doesn't amount to a successful argument.
krunkykai22
09-20-2009, 03:14 AM
You don't have to be monogamous to be in love? What ****ing pyschotic boat did you fall from?
To be completely honest, if you love someone you should only want to be with them. Only want to share a love with them. Not with many partners. Thats TRUE LOVE. cheating is just ridiculous. People do it and the world goes on I get that. But saying you dont have to be monogamous in a relationship to love them is just pure stupidity.
devonin
09-20-2009, 09:03 AM
You don't have to be monogamous to be in love? What ****ing pyschotic boat did you fall from?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory
Mollocephalus
09-20-2009, 09:10 AM
You don't have to be monogamous to be in love? What ****ing pyschotic boat did you fall from?
To be completely honest, if you love someone you should only want to be with them. Only want to share a love with them. Not with many partners. Thats TRUE LOVE. cheating is just ridiculous. People do it and the world goes on I get that. But saying you dont have to be monogamous in a relationship to love them is just pure stupidity.
referring as oneself as example and model never works, especially on subjective things like this. if you can define love inside a mathematic equation to which there is only a correct solution then you're right. otherwise, don't post about things you have no clue of.
A relationship doesn't have to be monogamous for it to be meaningful, fyi. Your view of the world appears to be rather narrow.
i mean i guess i could see that, if the two of you are committed to eachother and still want to have other sexual partners then thats (no pun intended) straight. sex is a really small part of any relationship. im rather polarized as my girlfriend is 3 hours away from me for the next 5 months and im surrounded by cute horny women; id never cheat on my girlfriend but it helps to care a lot more than i probably should about the whole cheating thing.
i really dont have that narrow a view of the world, if i ever experience a relationship where we can both be polygamous without degrading the meaningful aspects of the relationship id be all for it. i dont think it'll ever happen though.
revolutionomega
09-20-2009, 01:58 PM
I'm perfectly okay with cheating... so much that every relationship I've been in has been open. (Aka, sleep with whomever you want, just make sure i'm getting mine.)
It actually works out quite well, since most men who cheat want to feel like they don't have to follow your damned rules, but they won't get that same sense of "getting away with it" if its perfectly okay.
None of them have actually used the allowance to sleep with other people, fyi, and neither have I. Except of course in 3somes where my partner was involved too.
As an aside: This is Critical THINKING, not Critical Feeling.
I believe you're missing the point of what cheating is...
If you're in an open relationship it's not considered cheating because you are both aware that you have the options of dating/sleeping with others.
Cheating is more entailed in the lines of exclusive or committed relationships which is why it's upsetting and wrong. People that cheat are foolish because if you really aren't happy committing to that person that you are with, break up with them first and tell them that you are feeling trapped or whatever other BS you may make up because you're not ready to settle down.
I agree that 3somes are quite different as it's more of getting an outside hand to get involved sexually with both partners rather than emotionally thus causing problems. Somewhat like that of a sextoy (which is kid of harsh thinking of a human as a sextoy, but that is generally the reality).
Just my thoughts here and I'm interested to hear more.
You don't have to be monogamous to be in love? What ****ing pyschotic boat did you fall from?
To be completely honest, if you love someone you should only want to be with them. Only want to share a love with them. Not with many partners. Thats TRUE LOVE. cheating is just ridiculous. People do it and the world goes on I get that. But saying you dont have to be monogamous in a relationship to love them is just pure stupidity.
krunk I understand where you're coming from and yes, generally monogamy is the way to go. However in some cultures there is truly love in polygamist cultures. There may be more problems entailed but it is true. I just personally wouldn't want to put up with multiple wives xDD
I have found that if you truly love someone, you should want them to be happy, regardless if they are yours or not. Happiness is what everyone wants unless they are truly in a rut. So if they want to cheat on you and that makes them happy, let them be, let them go screwing around and move on to someone that makes you happy and doesn't cheat. Many relational beliefs I believe are based on personal preferences. Some people like slutty girls/guys, some people just want someone who they can trust, and some really want the commitment package so to speak.
Peace, love, respect. Sometimes I think the hippies had it right hahaha
Oni-Paranoia
09-20-2009, 03:15 PM
Revo has this down packed
revolutionomega
09-20-2009, 05:32 PM
My two year anniversary was a few days ago so I'd hope I knew a little bit about this sorta thing haha.
Shaydow
09-21-2009, 06:28 AM
My two year anniversary was a few days ago so I'd hope I knew a little bit about this sorta thing haha.
So you've been married since you were 15?
:P
Peace,
Shay
P.S = I'm in the Monticello Area. Nice to see a local face on these boards :)
Oni-Paranoia
09-21-2009, 06:50 AM
My two year anniversary was a few days ago so I'd hope I knew a little bit about this sorta thing haha.
I've gone threw a year, an almost 2 year and what will be 5 months next week.. and yea I agree with nearly everything you say xD
Shaydow
09-21-2009, 07:42 AM
I've gone threw a year, an almost 2 year and what will be 5 months next week.. and yea I agree with nearly everything you say xD
If anyone has any questions you can ask me. Been married for 8 years now :P
Don't plan on ever getting a divorce. Why would I? I love my wife, it's why I married her :)
Just a thought.
Peace,
Shay
MrRubix
09-21-2009, 07:47 AM
People need to understand that a relationship between people can take on many forms. "Boyfriend" and "girlfriend" alone don't neccessary define one type of relationship. Some people best relate by having only one, monogamous partner. Others believe in open relationships. Others believe in polygamy. Others believe in purely sexual relations, and some may abstain entirely. It all depends on the people involved and what type of relationship best works for them. Some believe in marriage, even, and others may not.
Cheating, under this sort of definition here, would mean breaking the confines of the relationship by stepping outside its boundaries (whether that breach is known or unknown by any other partners involved I think is irrelevant -- I think you can still cheat, even with everyone knowing about it. Cheating doesn't necessarily have to be done in secret).
revolutionomega
09-21-2009, 09:11 AM
People need to understand that a relationship between people can take on many forms. "Boyfriend" and "girlfriend" alone don't neccessary define one type of relationship. Some people best relate by having only one, monogamous partner. Others believe in open relationships. Others believe in polygamy. Others believe in purely sexual relations, and some may abstain entirely. It all depends on the people involved and what type of relationship best works for them. Some believe in marriage, even, and others may not.
Cheating, under this sort of definition here, would mean breaking the confines of the relationship by stepping outside its boundaries (whether that breach is known or unknown by any other partners involved I think is irrelevant -- I think you can still cheat, even with everyone knowing about it. Cheating doesn't necessarily have to be done in secret).
Hey pretty much say something similar to what I said...
My basic point is that cheating generally means going outside the boundaries of a committed relationship involving a bf/gf husband/wife (homo or hetero). Friendships don't generally count in this case.
cheating dominated
lmfao.
kommisar[os]
09-21-2009, 08:33 PM
a truly great relationship is knowing both of you have the same ideology. otherwise obvious conflict ensues.
revolutionomega
09-22-2009, 08:43 AM
Not necessarily true. Many great relationships are sparked due to the two individuals opposites and how the balance and interaction between different POV's leads to a more full understanding and deeper intimacy.
Mollocephalus
09-22-2009, 08:59 AM
here we go into the subjective opinions realm again. all hope abandon, ye who enter here. for how stupid it may sound, love is whatever works for you. it can collide with your partner's idea of love or not. your partner may even like the idea of colliding with you. or may not.
Just502
09-23-2009, 03:33 PM
Personally, I look at cheating on two seperate levels; physical and emotional (like Rubix mentioned). I find that a majority of people have a very solid view on cheating, restricting it only to physical contact between someone other than your partner. I guess it really comes down to what drives your relationship. If I was in an extremely close emotional relationship, I would be alot more hurt if my partner had stronger feelings for someone else, than if they engaged sexually with another. Whereas someone else who was in a physically driven relationship might be more effected by their partner 'fooling around' with someone else.
I know that you could say that strong emotions and sexual contact come hand-in-hand, but mistakes do happen and can be alot more unavoidable and sudden than one might imagine.
That's just my 2 cents.
Dorby
09-28-2009, 03:14 PM
Having sex with someone else while in a relationship is understandable. You have a mental/physical connection with one while the other you just have a physical connection.
AssNinja4759
10-2-2009, 12:26 PM
the way i see it, it's best for people to NOT get married, given that divorce rates are high. ontop of that, not only are people wasting their money, knowing that there is a possibility that they will have to go through a divorce, but it's a total asswhip on the couple to go through all the planning, time, and resources needed to put a wedding together. I'm all for a happy ending, but please. save yourself the hassle, stay single, and have lots of sex with whoever you want.
I think it's unnaceptable. If you are dating/married and you fool around with someone else then it's disrespectful to the person you're dating. Either break up/divorce them or don't do it, it hurts people feelings and causes rifts so it's best not to do it IMO.
who_cares973
10-9-2009, 02:51 PM
There was a 2 hour special on tlc about why people cheat
Cavernio
10-13-2009, 01:08 PM
I think that the majority of people who cheat on someone either don't actually love the person they cheated on, or don't actually love the person they cheated with. Polygamy would address neither of those issues. If the person was married to both, say, such that it wasn't "cheating" I suspect they would just cheat on them both with someone else.
Touche. I guess what I meant by pretending polygamy were part of our culture, was to pretend if monogamy and marriage and 'going steady' were oddities instead of the norm, and that sleeping with whoever you wanted whenever you wanted was instead the norm. Pretend that getting upset over someone having sex with someone else when they are currently having sex with you is frowned upon, even if you care for them a great deal. Would it emotionally hurt as much? I'm not sure it would.
I suspect, though correct me if your experience contradicts this, that most people who cheat are not cheating because what they really wish they had was a serious romantic relationship with all parties involved.
I'm not sure I get you. If I were to cheat on someone (no, no personal experience from me though), but I didn't know their spouse, how could I possibly want to be in a relationship with that guy's wife? Furthermore, I'm pretty straight. I have never felt, and suspect I will never feel, what I have for a woman the feelings that I've had for men. I suppose sex is sex though, and is not really the same as love. Personally, your point may be true for me in that the one person at the moment in my life who I would consider cheating with is a friend of mine and my partner, and their wife is also a friend. But what I just said still stands...I'm straight.
devonin
10-13-2009, 02:10 PM
I'm not sure I get you. If I were to cheat on someone (no, no personal experience from me though), but I didn't know their spouse, how could I possibly want to be in a relationship with that guy's wife? Furthermore, I'm pretty straight. I have never felt, and suspect I will never feel, what I have for a woman the feelings that I've had for men. I suppose sex is sex though, and is not really the same as love. Personally, your point may be true for me in that the one person at the moment in my life who I would consider cheating with is a friend of mine and my partner, and their wife is also a friend. But what I just said still stands...I'm straight.
You misunderstand. What I was saying is this:
1/ You are in a relationship with person 1
2/ You become involved with person 2 while still in a relationship with person 1
WHat I'm asserting is "What you do NOT want in this situation is a serious, romantic relationship with both person 1 and person 2."
By which I mean, as referred to in the previous statement of mine you had quoted: In a relationship with person 1, and cheating with person 2, my feeling is that you EITHER have serious feelings for person 1 OR person 2 OR neither person, and NOT both people.
nordia
10-30-2009, 11:24 AM
I do not think that cheating is a bad thing, but as devonin says, you can't have serious feelings for both of them.
footbull3196
10-30-2009, 07:53 PM
Cheat on your girlfriend constantly. That way you have as many chances for success as possible. If one finds out and dumps you, you still have the other 76.
Ok don't actually do that but my friend wrote a parody of a "relationship how-to guide" and that was part of it lol
In all seriousness though, cheating differs from person to person. What one person views as cheating may not be what somebody else views as cheating.
For example, I saw this once on an episode of "The King of Queens". Deacon was meeting up with his friend Angie from high school at some Chinese restaurant, and Kelly didn't know about it. In Deacon's mind, cheating = sleeping with the person or getting serious with them. In Kelly's mind, however, cheating = seeing the person without telling her.
This led to Kelly kicking him out of the house and part of what temporarily destroyed their marriage.
I personally think it's ok to "cheat" on someone, according to Kelly's standards. I wouldn't mind if my girlfriend was seeing someone else, but they weren't getting serious or anything. But that's about as far as it would go.
AquaTeen
07-11-2011, 07:25 PM
I think you have every right to be upset if a spouse is unfaithful. You trusted them then they deceive you and that is wrong. If they want to be with someone else they should end things before moving on instead of cheating and hiding it. I hate when men or women get mad at the person that their spouse is cheating on them with... it's partially their fault but the main person you should be mad at is the spouse because they knew they were doing wrong so it's only truly their fault not the other person.
vBulletin® v3.8.1, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.