Do Ms. Panda a big favor...

[stretchypanda]

And just turn in your work in school...

Nothing is more frustrating than having a brilliant kid who refuses to do work. It's easy, just do it. =(

Well, no... what's more frustrating is a kid who THINKS he's brilliant who refuses to do work.

In other news, this week I have to call the parents of all the kids who failed my class this six weeks. I am el stressed-o.

[Bynary Fission]

Exactly how many kids failed? Or better yet, how many failed out of the total number of students you have?


~Bynary Fission

[dashoe93]

What grade is this?

[MooMoo_Cowfreak]

What class do you teach?

[sarahxjane]

I'm guilty of not completing my homework even though I am usually capable of doing the work.


I'm curious, what grade do you teach?

[robertsona]

i'm pretty sure she teaches like sixth grade science

[stretchypanda]

More like 9th grade.

Also, 32% failed, but there are some minor adjustments I can make to save my "almost-made-its".

The kids who REALLY FAILED had like all zeroes.

[foilman8805]

It's your fault because you're a terrible teacher.

[dietsnapple135]

Yeah, my mom is a teacher and she always gets stressed out about kids that are failing. That's why she switched to teaching AP.

[stretchypanda]

Yeah, my mom is a teacher and she always gets stressed out about kids that are failing. That's why she switched to teaching AP.

I had an honors kid make a 38 and laugh about it.

My mind boggles at these kids.

[Redorigami]

Ohey I'm one of those kids :D

I came out of history with like a 29 or something and a 40 something in english >.>

They kicked me out of all the smart kid classes too

[dietsnapple135]

Whoa, that's a new one. Every kid in my classes is super gung-ho about making good grades. I think there are only two or three kids in my AP Physics class that don't have 4.0's. Having students with work ethic always helps reduce stress for teachers, I think.

[stretchypanda]

They changed the requirements for getting into honors classes in high school, so I have kids who are not used to advanced classes who are SHOCKED that I do not hold their hand through everything.

[robertsona]

6th grade and 9th grade are basically the same thing

[stretchypanda]

Basically.

[Redorigami]

Teach me to have some work ethic stretchy D:

[s0ulst0n3]

You don't need to be smart to do well in school. I don't see why people don't do better.. I just study and ask for help when needed and I get 95%+ in every class. It's really, really easy to take 2 hours out of your day after school to just study or do a decent job on your homework. Pretty much everyone has the capability to get perfect in classes.

Stretchy is right, just do your damn homework. Mom has told me how hard it is in the future if you don't hand in assignments nor do a decent job on them. It's just not worth avoiding homework to do "personal stuff" in the end.

~Soul

[stretchypanda]

Teach me to have some work ethic stretchy D:

Swift kick in the ass should do the trick.

[dietsnapple135]

They changed the requirements for getting into honors classes in high school, so I have kids who are not used to advanced classes who are SHOCKED that I do not hold their hand through everything.

Ah, I know what you're talking about. Our school did too, so we had a lot of kids in the wrong classes freshman year, but they get filtered out and by sophomore and, especially, junior year it's a much more accurate class fitting. Do teacher's at your school only teach one grade? At mine they vary, my mom teaches honors 9th and 11 AP.

[stretchypanda]

Ah, I know what you're talking about. Our school did too, so we had a lot of kids in the wrong classes freshman year, but they get filtered out and by sophomore and, especially, junior year it's a much more accurate class fitting. Do teacher's at your school only teach one grade? At mine they vary, my mom teaches honors 9th and 11 AP.

I'm at a 9th and 10th grade school, so Biology only serves one grade. My tenth graders are there because they either moved here or failed before.

[dietsnapple135]

I'm at a 9th and 10th grade school, so Biology only serves one grade. My tenth graders are there because they either moved here or failed before.

Is it only two grades? Or does it go lower than 9th?

[Devilution]

I still wonder why there's kids in my academic classes at Grade 11 that don't give a **** at all, don't do their work and have no clue what's going on. Failing in academic > 70's in applied am I right?

[stretchypanda]

Yeah they consider below a 70 failure now, which I disagree with but whatever I don't make the rules.

[sarahxjane]

Yeah they consider below a 70 failure now, which I disagree with but whatever I don't make the rules.

Last time I heard, 49% and below was a fail.

Silly Americans.

[Redorigami]

Damn, even then I woulda failed my classes D:

[NFD]

I'm lazy and I procrastinate, otherwise I'd have straight A's. I have a C+ average, because I hardly do the homework, yet I do the classwork.

[Phynx]

I'm lazy and I procrastinate, otherwise I'd have straight A's. I have a C+ average, because I hardly do the homework, yet I do the classwork.

Ditto, scored 95% or better on all tests I took, just never did homework because I had other interests. Stupid of me cause I would've been 3.5+ GPA student had I done my homework...

[dean_machine]

I play FFR instead of doing my homework. I usually get my homework done at school whenever possible, and what I don't get done is just a small price to pay for having a lot of fun.

[Crashfan3]

I'm guilty of not completing my homework even though I am usually capable of doing the work.

This defines me exactly.

I'm an absolute moron when it comes to science, biology in particular. Just my luck that I'm taking Biology I-B right now. >_> 82% at the moment but I expect it to drop.

Also, 2.8 GPA wut wut

[pokelda]

they were too busy talking about how cute you are to do homework

[One Winged Angel]

The FFR community is full of the brightest and laziest people I know.

Seriously, if we all weren't so damn lazy, we could probably change the world.

Not kidding.

[DossarLX ODI]

I remember doing all my homework and I had like a 93 in my science honors class but then this lame test came up and I failed it, brought my grade down to a 82 lmfao

Plus it's hard trying to study something you don't understand :/

[PsYcHoZeRoSk8eR]

I'm sorry for all of the trouble that I have caused over the years by not completing my assignments.

[chidori!]

Last year every quarter I failed algebra and kept falling asleep now I have the highest grade in the class, and I wait the last minuet to do stuff, right now I have 4 assignments to turn in tomorrow.

[IDKW2CM]

Yay, Im 9th grade, and I'm supposed to take physical science, but I took Biology instead which is 10th, and I have and 98%

[DossarLX ODI]

Middle school was more like fun and games. In 5th grade I would miss like 3 assignments a WEEK and i'd get like really bad grades and then as I progressed to the higher grades I realised that homework was really important for your grade too. It's like, my math class right now in high school, 5 homework assignments are worth the same grade of a quiz lol (of course I do them all)

In fact, science is the only thing concerning me right now since i still can't figure out what's going on, I have to depend on labs and experiment to raise my grade. I really suck at the quiz/tests

[One Winged Angel]

I dicked around all throughout high school and barely scraped by with low 90s

This year, first year uni, I've actually done my work, and not at the last minute either. Lowest mark atm is 98.

[OrganisM]

I always hated grade school, hardly ever did my work, was yelled at because of how much potential I was supposedly throwing away, and then got out as fast as I could. I've been enjoying the past few years doing better things, like going to college.

[virus003]

Last time I heard, 49% and below was a fail.

Silly Americans.

Last time I heard, 59% and below was a fail.

Silly Canadians.
XD

[jecht3009046]

Stretchy, do you make your students call you Ms. Panda? If not, you should, starting tomorrow.

[clarinet89]

Oh god, and I'm going to be a teacher? I hopefully don't have to worry about homework too muchbecause I'm going to be a band teacher...though teaching music theory might be fun...

[DossarLX ODI]

From what I heard college is like a matter of life or death. If you do bad on one test, you're screwed. Because there is supposedly one test and then a final, so you aren't given many oppurtunities to boost up your grade. I could probably understand a lot of people getting insane grades in high school, but when they move on to college it's a lot more harsh since the tests are what determine your grade, not labs, experiments, homewor, etc.

[Tasselfoot]

i don't get you guys.... i had an unweighted 3.6 in HS (4.4 with the extra 1.0 from honors... aka, i was in almost all honors classes). my HS was extremely hard... we had 2 1600 SATs, 2 1590s just from my graduating class of 360. We had 4 people tied for valedictorian with like a 4.89 and 5 more at 4.88. 36% of my graduating class was in national honors society. we had 3-4 honors classes for almost every single subject, because there was 25-35% of our grade in each honors class. and this was a generic public school.... not a private school or an inner city public school that you have to apply to get in to.

but beyond all that... i never studied for exams and never did homework at home. you guys just absolutely suck at in-school time management. the KEY thing is if you have something due for your 5th period class... do it in 4th period.

but, then i tried doing the same type of stuff in college.... and it didn't quite work out. so having the terrible work ethic is ok in HS if you're really smart, but it doesn't work in college, even if you are. i graduated with a 2.6x in college because i never went to class or studied. only failed 1 class though and still graduated in 4 years. then again, i did go to a top10 rated business school and a top30 or so overall school.

[IDKW2CM]

I'm good at in school management, I usually come home with nothing or 1 thing, but if I have nothing I study :D

[Demidetirus]

Take your worst student, and beat him/her savagely as an example to the rest of the class.

...They'll work.

[csoup1414]

in our school, failing is 65 or below...it was 59 but that was too hard to achieve I guess?
oh well, I do alright in school...two AP classes and a 3.6 in school
never do homework at home because that's what FFR is for, crushes your boredom at home

[Reach]

From what I heard college is like a matter of life or death. If you do bad on one test, you're screwed. Because there is supposedly one test and then a final, so you aren't given many oppurtunities to boost up your grade. I could probably understand a lot of people getting insane grades in high school, but when they move on to college it's a lot more harsh since the tests are what determine your grade, not labs, experiments, homewor, etc.

Depends on the college and the class, but yeah, for science students tests are usually weighted heavily. A calculus class at my university was, for example: Midterm = 35%, Assignments = 15%, Final Exam = 50% IIRC. The exams were typically 3 hours long with averages of about 50-60. Maybe 1-2% of the class would score over 90.

So yeah, if you fail the final there's a good chance you fail the course. Stakes are pretty high. High School in comparison is quite easy. Do your Homework and work hard now to build up study skills that will be necessary later on.

[stretchypanda]

Depends on the college and the class, but yeah, for science students tests are usually weighted heavily. A calculus class at my university was, for example: Midterm = 35%, Assignments = 15%, Final Exam = 50% IIRC. The exams were typically 3 hours long with averages of about 50-60. Maybe 1-2% of the class would score over 90.

So yeah, if you fail the final there's a good chance you fail the course. Stakes are pretty high. High School in comparison is quite easy. Do your Homework and work hard now to build up study skills that will be necessary later on.

What's unfortunate is that I don't think a lot of my students see themselves in post-secondary education, either because they don't want to go or they've never been made to think they COULD go to college and do something.

So we try to teach them that the skills they learn now will help them hold jobs they can get with a high school diploma and they don't care. =(

Half my 4th period failed. Half.

Also, my bio. classes in college were graded based on two or three tests and a final.

[EnR]

I never do my homework. Teachers always bitch at me, telling me I have potential, and I know I do but I'm just way to lazy. If you get me interested in the class, like last year we had this awesome english teacher who let us lisin to our iPods, play games on our laptops and we were allowed food. We also watched a ****load of movies (All these break the schools rules).

Anyways, I was the only person to get a 100% on a test in his class, just goes to show, letting kids lisin' to music, play games, have fun at school will actually make them do better.

[dietsnapple135]

i don't get you guys.... i had an unweighted 3.6 in HS (4.4 with the extra 1.0 from honors... aka, i was in almost all honors classes).

You get an extra 1.0 for honors classes? We only get .5. I've made all A's, I have over 10 Honors classes and 6 college courses(1.0 gpa addition) and my weighted gpa is like a 4.3. Might get a B this semester in Physics 2, though.

[bmah]

Some people I've talked to who didn't plan on going to college/university said stuff like they'd "probably get a job in the trades instead", "do not prefer a more academia-related job", or they "simply want to enjoy life". Which isn't to say that you should slack off in school anyways.

From what I heard college is like a matter of life or death. If you do bad on one test, you're screwed. Because there is supposedly one test and then a final, so you aren't given many oppurtunities to boost up your grade.

Tell this to my cousin who had 100% finals. And I have many 50%+ finals too. Like my calculus courses. T.T

[DossarLX ODI]

Well good for you. You're a smart ****** :P

[sonic-fast-fingers]

So does anyone from your school know that you are a profile/forum mod?

That would be pretty bad ass if a teacher from my school was a profile/forum mod.

You should tell all your students about FFR!
Lol.

[Chrissi]

in our school, failing is 65 or below...it was 59 but that was too hard to achieve I guess?
oh well, I do alright in school...two AP classes and a 3.6 in school
never do homework at home because that's what FFR is for, crushes your boredom at home

Your signature is way, way, way too long.

[who_cares973]

sounds like people in high school maybe even school in general don't care anymore

makes me sad to think what the future hold for your students =/




anyone know if seniors still have to do a senior project?

[devonin]

Just remember though, that you can't actually compare a percentage grade from one place to another. If a 50% is a pass in one board and a 70% is a pass in another board, the general conclusion to draw from that is that the second board grades more easily, and the same piece of work handed into the first school that got a 50 ought to get about a 70 in the other school.

Raising up that number is the worst idea you can have IMO for designing a grade scheme because it gives you less room to actually distinguish between levels of work.

If everything over a 70 is a pass, you only have 30% worth of room to rank passing students among one another. If 50% is a pass, you have 50% worth of room to rank people, thus the grades are more accurate to the actual quality of work the student completes.

Also, in university I made a point of not handing in work whose marks I didn't need, to concentrate on work whose marks I did need. It made for a lot of "Going into the last assignment with a 95 and coming out with a 65" sorts of things, but since I had no intention whatsoever to go into teacher's college or post-grad work, passing was all that was relevant to me.

[Afrobean]

I had an honors kid make a 38 and laugh about it.

My mind boggles at these kids.
Give those kids an option to weigh their grades entirely (or at least, more heavily) on tests.

Assuming your tests are actual tests and not "find the answers in your book/notes" kind of test.

This will give these brilliant kids a way to prove their worth without wasting their time on stupid-homework. If they can learn the material and prove they've learned the material, homework is irrelevant. For them, it's just busywork.

You don't need to be smart to do well in school. I don't see why people don't do better.
That's a fundamental problem. Smart people who don't want to do meaningless busywork fall behind because the way the system works favors those who blindly work hard rather than those who are smart. Obviously, an ability to work is a necessary skill in the real world, but often, those who neglect homework aren't lazy, they just don't care. For instance, I didn't do my homework a lot of the time because I already learned well enough during class time (and I was able to prove it by getting test grades in the top 5 of the class). I got bad grades in the class anyway. Fastforward to now, I have a job, and am a contributing member of society. And yet, despite my homework habits, I am one of the hardest working members in my department. Laziness runs rampant across the entire hotel I work at, actually, but I do everything required of me, everything I am asked to. Because there is a reason to it that is innate to it's function. If I don't clear the trays from the floors, trays are left out and guests see them and complain. If I don't take up housekeeping calls, guests don't get what they need and complain. If I'm not at my post, I can't help guests who need assistance. But if I don't do my homework? Nothing. The only effect of it is an artificial effect, in that despite my understanding of the subject matter, my transcripts will say that I'm stupid.

Plus it's hard trying to study something you don't understand :/
This is a failure on the teacher's part. If they can't teach you during class and they use homework to teach instead, that means that it's THEM failing.

Homework should be for review or for cementation of the material taught that day in school. It shouldn't be used to teach, because at that point, you're counting on the student's to be autodidacts, but then also limiting their speed to the rate you think they should learn at. Self learning isn't a bad thing, but if it's practiced, it shouldn't be limited, and furthermore, it shouldn't be forced either.

the KEY thing is if you have something due for your 5th period class... do it in 4th period.
Then you fail to learn the material from 4th period. I don't know about you guys, but when I was in school, I was there to learn. I wasn't there to work.

So yeah, if you fail the final there's a good chance you fail the course.
Is this not how it should be? If you can't even pass the final, thus proving you failed to learn roughly HALF of the material in the entire class, you DESERVE TO FAIL THE CLASS. I don't care if you did all the homework, if you fail the final exam, you didn't learn ****.

[who_cares973]

If you can't even pass the final, thus proving you failed to learn roughly HALF of the material in the entire class, you DESERVE TO FAIL THE CLASS. I don't care if you did all the homework, if you fail the final exam, you didn't learn ****.

truer words have yet to be spoken

[Afrobean]

Let's be honest here, unless you plan on taking up a major in that field, are you really going to remember all of that?
You should be able to remember the vast majority of it throughout the few months that the semester lasts. You might not use the skill of predicting formulas for ionic compounds in your field of network administration, but you should at least be able to remember it a few months while you're in the class.

Chances are, hell no. My long term memory sucks so bad, that I get 70's on the exams, despite getting low 90's for everything else (honors courses by the way). I just suck at remembering things over a prolonged period of time.
Long term memory is irrelevant. These topics should be kept relatively fresh by simply paying attention in class every day, and they can be purged mere months after learning them, ONCE YOU'VE TAKEN THE TEST. If these topics are touched on early in the class, then never mentioned again until you see it on the final, it should be up to the instructor to review material, or to let you know what material will be on the exam so that you can review it yourself.

If you go into a test having forgotten things, that's a failure on your part to not ensure you recall the topic completely. In addition, teachers often guide reviews on topics which may be hard to recall, particularly ones that were learned a long time ago and ones which haven't received much practical application in the class.

Stretchy, have fun dealing with incompetent ignorant parents who think their child is a genius and you're a just bad teacher.
This may not be far from the truth some times. There are bad teachers, and there are genius students who aren't challenged. Not all bad students are wasted potential geniuses, and not all teachers are bad, but both of these things DO exist.

And frankly, if they know their child is of an above average IQ and yet still see them getting poor grades in a class that they have a strong understanding of, yeah, I'd say at least some of the blame should fall on the teacher. Really, how can you watch this kid get As on tests, then fail them because they never do their homework? They obviously understand the material, why give them a grade that indicates otherwise? Yes, work ethic is important, but abstract, meaningless work does nothing but hold a person back.
I love how parents think that teachers just live for their own students, and that if their child has a problem in that class, it's up to the teacher to fix it.
It's not always a student's fault when he/she fails. It could be unreasonable course work on the teacher's part, it could be that the previous course didn't adequately prepare the student, it could be that the teacher is just plain incompetent. Yes, it could also be that the student is lazy, but in the case of bright kids, I'm more apt to guess that they're just not receiving the right kind of attention to advance themselves rather than to simply say that they're just "lazy". These "bright" kids cannot be lazy, because if they truly were so much so, their brightness would not be apparent to anyone.

It's like the parent doesn't want to put in their own effort to actually help the child.
Often, there's nothing a parent can do to help. Seriously, I don't know about you guys, but once I was in like 7th grade, my parents wouldn't have been able to do my homework. Hell, some of the stuff that was touched on in later elementary was outside the realm of what my parents know. They might be able to figure it out if they had the book in front of them, but they don't just know, they can't just help.

But maybe I'm unique in this case, coming from a lower middle class household where the highest education anyone in my family has had is "a little community college".

[Sullyman2007]

And frankly, if they know their child is of an above average IQ and yet still see them getting poor grades in a class that they have a strong understanding of, yeah, I'd say at least some of the blame should fall on the teacher. Really, how can you watch this kid get As on tests, then fail them because they never do their homework? They obviously understand the material, why give them a grade that indicates otherwise? Yes, work ethic is important, but abstract, meaningless work does nothing but hold a person back.

Bussywork is probably the worst thing ever. Teachers that don't have anything else to do other than give their students useless worksheet packets obviously can't teach. A teacher that actually cared, that actually wanted his/her students to succeed, would use real life situations with the curriculum and make the material worth learning.

However that requires that a teacher has to know what he/she is doing. Unfortunately teaching down here in Florida has become somewhat of a joke. It's obvious to me when a teacher doesn't know what he/she is doing. Just this morning I heard an advertisement on the radio from the county begging people to attend seminars and become a teacher.

"You don't even need a college education. Simply attend one of our free seminars at the public library next week, take a county sponsored teaching course, and you're all set".
That was pretty much the gist of it, not including some dates and times, and of course how much fun teaching is.

[Reach]

Is this not how it should be? If you can't even pass the final, thus proving you failed to learn roughly HALF of the material in the entire class, you DESERVE TO FAIL THE CLASS. I don't care if you did all the homework, if you fail the final exam, you didn't learn ****.

I don't necessarily disagree, but you have to be careful here though. It's not like getting a 50 on an exam means you understand 50% of the material, and if you get 100% you understand everything. Getting a 50 means you managed to answer half of the questions on the test to the standard. In order to take the leap you're taking, you'd have to make several assumptions, such as the test being a 100% valid, reliable and consistent measure of knowledge in the subject.

However, that certainly isn't the case, as anyone can tell. As an example, in one of my physics classes last year, I made one mistake on the midterm which was a calculator error (accidentally put the wrong numbers into my calculator) in the middle of the question, which resulted in me getting half points for the question, even though it was the only mistake. The question was worth the most on the test, so I got a 90, even though I knew all of the material.

This problem is further exacerbated on multiple choice tests, where if constructed very poorly (which is so common), one must choose the 'best answer'. Another problem with multiple choice tests is they fail to reward you for what you do know in the case of flubbing a question. You don't get 90% of the value for a question for falling for the trick answer because you didn't analyze the question to death, even though you clearly understand and know the material.


But sure, I can agree with the fact that regardless, less than 50 is an abysmal mark in *most* classes, and reflects terrible work ethic and lack of knowledge on the subject, so you deserve to fail.

[infinity.]

i'm a 4.0 unweighted student right now,
i know this kid in my grade, taken advanced classes all his life, but he obviously shouldnt be, he studies for math tests for 3-4 hours a night, because he just can't get it. he would do extra homework just so that he could make sure he understood it, and would still barely get that A that he desired so much.

i think he deserves it, and i think a kid that doesnt do work, no matter how capable, is an idiot.
sorry.

[IDKW2CM]

i know this kid in my grade, taken advanced classes all his life, but he obviously shouldnt be, he studies for math tests for 3-4 hours a night, because he just can't get it. he would do extra homework just so that he could make sure he understood it, and would still barely get that A that he desired so much.

Ha he shouldn't be in advanced then, but if he really wants too... but good job for him to get that A!;-)

and i think a kid that doesnt do work, no matter how capable, is an idiot.
Agreed! :D

[Afrobean]

things
Seems like most of your dissension comes from the basic fact that it is potentially impossible to objectively test things. The leap that must be taken is to assume that a test can be an accurate measuring stick must be taken however, even in a flawed system such as this. We just have to hope that those with power do things right.

Oh of course, however if the child is a "genius", he should:
A.) Have no excuse to do poorly in grades
Artificial value in homework isn't a decent excuse? Well, that's your opinion. I'm going to go ahead and stick with my "person who understands the subject matter is a better person than the person who is more willing to do busywork on the subject matter" ideal.

B.) Go into a harder class
This is not possible in most cases. Up until high school, social reasons are a good deterrent to getting into harder classes... how would you like to be 8 years old in a class full of 12 year olds? Good luck developing any social skills, and really, the education system is as much for learning socialization as applicable knowledge.

Beyond that, at older ages, where age gaps can become less relevant, the problem becomes that advancement into higher classes requires a test-out. In other words, you can only get into an advanced class if you can already prove that you know what the class will teach you. This does not help students who do not know these things, yet learn them easily. In other words, the problem isn't that the subject matter is already known and they need a higher level class, it's that the subject matter is so easy and moves too slowly, putting undue emphasis on subtopics which are easily covered for these students.

So yeah, you can't just "go into a higher class" because your class is moving too slowly. I'd love to see you go from 9th grade math into calc without taking the classes in between. The knowledge of those classes needs to be instilled, but they don't need to be instilled in the way that they are. I guess what I'm musing to here is that rather than there simply being higher level classes available to students, there should also be classes which teach to those who easily learn.

Otherwise, it's just lack of effort. The message is basically being given, "I'm too good for everyone else because I already understand the material, so I shouldn't have to do anything". That's not how the real world works, and poor work ethic in general.
Like I said, homework doesn't have an innate value in it. It's an artificial value. I have a good work ethic where my actions have true consequences. I do not have a good work ethic where the work being done teaches me nothing. For example, pull out a piece of clean paper and a sharpie and color it solid black. That takes a lot of work, but does it get you anywhere? What if a person in an authoritative position told you that if you don't color that paper black, you won't get a good job. This is how it seems to the student who doesn't need the busywork of homework to keep up in the class. Have you ever seen the film Office Space? The scene between Peter and the Bobs is a good reference point to what I'm getting at here. Motivations are key here, if the student does not have anything to gain (i.e. knowledge/learning), then it shouldn't be a fundamental component of their schooling. Attaching an abstract and artificial value to it can only serve one purpose: to keep them down. But we shouldn't be basing the system in a way that would keep students down, we should be building them up. If a student can succeed outside the realms of what others need to succeed, they should be set aside and handled differently.

So yeah, work ethic is important, but artificially requiring work that doesn't do anyone any good is not a good method of even measuring real work ethic. You want to measure a person's work ethic, wait until they have a job, then take a look at their performance during the job. Education is not a job.

Again, lack of effort. If it's so easy for the student to comprehend, it shouldn't take him long at all. The fact that he can't sit down and focus for 5-10 minutes doing something so easily is just plain inexcusable.
I don't know about you, but a lot of teachers at my high school had some asinine idea that students NEED to have homework, whether it helped them or not. I've had so many instances where the teacher would give about an hour of busywork for no reason other than to ensure that we had homework.

The kind of homework that can be completed in 5~10 minutes? That's where Tass's method comes in handy. But when the teacher assigns you 50+ math problems that take nearly a minute each to complete? **** that. Even if I was struggling with a concept, it wouldn't take me more than a couple examples to fully grasp it.

Why can't a bright child be lazy? Their brightness is to the fact they can understand the material so easily without putting in any or little effort.
I was just flowing some logic there that if the person is THAT lazy, no one would even know that they're bright. If they're that lazy, how could their brightness be witnessed by anyone? If they're that lazy, their parents wouldn't even know that they're "bright".

This is, of course, assuming that the child truly IS intelligent and it's not just the parents being stupid, thinking their child is a genius when they're really retarded.

While I can agree with that some parents don't actually know the material, they should at least sit down, and take the time to understand it with their child, instead of just blaming the teacher. Two heads are better than one.
You wouldn't be saying this if your intelligence far surpassed your parents'. If I needed help with something (which, luckily, at the levels I got to, I never did), I'd be better off talking to my little sister who is 4 years younger than me than I would talking to my parents.

Ironically, my older sister wouldn't have been any help.

Wait. I think I get it now. My older sister had a different birth father than myself and my little sister. Must be a sign that the intelligence we have is from our father then. Hah.

But alas, my father was never around in the afternoons thanks to work. Either way, it's been a long time since he was in school, and I know he doesn't have a grasp of academia any further than around that of an elementary level (aside from knowledge he is able to apply in everyday life, of course). He probably would have been able to help me in junior high if I needed, assuming he was actually around, but beyond that, when I started getting into the higher algebra, the trig, chemistry, etc. he wouldn't have been able to help in the slightest. The only advanced areas he could actually help me in would be, GASP, the more trade-like areas I touched in during my time in highschool (i.e., CAD and IT).

Also let me add that if we are talking about legit geniuses, they should probably go to a private school where they are challenged so. If we are talking about bright, intelligent students, everything still applies.
Oh, sorry, some of us can't afford private schools.

And some of us are, despite being above average intelligence and highly receptive to learning, still below genius level.

Oh and by the way, my current mindset didn't really develop until later on. Back in elementary school and such, I never didn't complete my homework. But eventually, somewhere around 9th grade, I got to the point where I realized that I didn't need it to learn, so I stopped doing it. Actually, it's funny. The best grade I've had in any academic class throughout high school through the little bit of college I've completed was in 9th grade, when I first stopped doing homework. The grades for the class were completely determined based upon unit tests and daily quizzes.
Also, if the child doesn't understand the material, it's up to the CHILD, (not the parent, not the teacher) to come the teacher after class for help.
But if the child is as bright as we keep alluding to, such a thing would be unnecessary anyway. Isn't the central argument here about "STUDENTS NEED TO DO HOMEWORK" and "SOME STUDENTS DON'T NEED HOMEWORK TO KEEP UP". If a kid has to go after school for help, homework is absolutely a good thing for them (although, I may still question the validity of REQUIRING so much of it for them). That kid, though, is not the kid I am talking about.

and i think a kid that doesnt do work, no matter how capable, is an idiot.
Sorry, but I guess I "work" more efficiently than you. I can learn subject matter completely within the allotted class time. It's not my fault if you (read: everyone else) can't.

ps lol WALL OF TEXT ATTACCCCCCCCCCCCCCK BEAR WITNESS TO MY IMPENETRABLE DEFENSE!!!

I'll be back later to throw more words at anyone who dares oppose me.

[Redorigami]

Oh and by the way, my current mindset didn't really develop until later on. Back in elementary school and such, I never didn't complete my homework. But eventually, somewhere around 9th grade, I got to the point where I realized that I didn't need it to learn, so I stopped doing it.

This. Exactly this.

[stretchypanda]

>/ They moved a kid out of my class into a lower level class today. He's not low level, he just can't read. I'm saaaad.

[IDKW2CM]

That is sad. (not sarcastically)

[sonic-fast-fingers]

Stretchy did you not see my question?

And how in the world is someone in the 9th grade if he can't read?

[stretchypanda]

Stretchy did you not see my question?

And how in the world is someone in the 9th grade if he can't read?

Uh, lots of adults can't read.

1) English is not his first language. His communication skills are excellent, however.

2) He has reading comprehension problems. He is probably undiagnosed dyslexic.

3) He was until recently lost in a school district that recently misappropriated 84 million dollars -- he's been at my school for six weeks and we've still not received his paperwork.

It's pretty easy to get by unable to read.

[IDKW2CM]

2) He has reading comprehension problems. He is probably undiagnosed dyslexic.
:-( that stinks

[Afrobean]

I thought we were talking about high school students, not elementary students. School doesn't mean squat until high school.
:|

If you notice, I only included this for sake of completion. I mention high school in the next paragraph. If you're going to type up a response as you're reading it, please, go back and modify previous responses to portions as your further reading becomes inaccurate.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. Actually, I asked my mother once (she's a teacher) why some students were able to jump from Pre-Algebra to Geometry, instead of taking the Algebra 1 course. She stated that the math department felt which students were capable of learning at such consistent rates, and have mature comprehension to understand something which they might not have understood in the past. In other words, you might not understand something as a 12 year old, but when you're 13 it eventually clicks, because your brain is further developing.
Well, that's a different thing. Going from Algebra to Geometry, that is. My school doesn't have those classes. They had Math 1, 2, 3, Precalc, Calc, and AP Calc (as well as a smattering of remedial level classes). Kids who took the advanced math in junior high (which is the same as high school's math 1, combined with the necessary elements they would have learned in the normal 8th grade math) can take 2 in freshman year. But they can't skip 2 and go to 3. They can't skip 3 and go to precalc. They can't skip precalc and go to calc. The only thing they can do, is take AP Calc instead of Calc. Durka.

And no, it's not about age or bull**** like that. If I had gotten tailored education, I could have been doing advanced algebra and trig before I hit puberty. But instead, they focus on OMG MULTIPLICATION OF NUMBERS WITH 2 OR MORE DIGITS and WTF ADD AND SUBTRACT FRACTIONS. WOW THAT **** IS HARD WOOOOOOOOOAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH

From developing what I said earlier, those said students would take extra time out of their normal class schedule to learn the majority of Algebra 1, so they could comprehend the basics of Geometry at the start of the class.
Yeah, well, like I said, not all schools are like that. It's easier for a school to offer a single class that covers material from both algebra and geometry than to have two classes that cover only their own material.

While I can agree with you on some points about motivation, homework is set up to make sure the students understand the material. If the assignment is that easy, it should be no problem for the student to complete it.
Again, I point to the teachers who give homework just to give homework. Teachers that assign 50+ math problems when the material has already been mastered that day in class.

And I'm not saying homework shouldn't be given or that it shouldn't be considered. All I'm saying is that factoring it as a large enough part of the grade so that an otherwise good student fails does nothing BUT HURT THEM. For the students who need help in the grade department, sure, have their homework carry undue weight, but for students who are able to succeed without it, don't force it to hurt them.

What may seem irrelevant to you now might become useful to you in the future; to say knowledge is useless is pretty preposterous.
You're not understanding me. I'm not saying "don't do homework because the knowledge gained is irrelevant." I'm saying homework simply doesn't help a person when the person already knows the material. If your teacher gave you homework that consisted of finding sums of two single digit numbers (aka kindergarten ****), it wouldn't do a thing for you, right? It's because you already know the practice of that and doing it more won't grant you additional knowledge. What if the homework was so lengthy that it took away from other things you might be doing, maybe even homework for other classes that you DID need additional work with? Would you like to sit there and do an hour's worth of addition of single digit numbers just because your teacher told you that they'd give you a bad grade if you didn't?

Also, it's not just about the material you learn, but that you learn the study habits and work ethics. The teachers won't know that for sure unless you actually do the work.
Sorry, but I thought my grade in "Chemistry" should be based upon the amount of learning I did in the class, not what the teacher thinks of my work ethic. Again, school is for learning, not for work. You want to know about my work ethic, have a talk with my supervisors or my manager at work. They can tell you a lot more about it than my high school teachers could.

Again, how can you say it's not doing anyone good? The knowledge you learn in class might become useful in the future. If they honestly felt it was useless, why would they have put it in the curriculum in the first place?
Strawman.

I'm not saying "don't do homework because you won't learn anything worthwhile".

I'm saying that some students HAVE ALREADY LEARNED IT IN CLASS AND DO NOT NEED ADDITIONAL WORK HAMMERED ON THEM WHEN THEY ALREADY KNOW IT. I'm not saying "avoid knowledge", I'm saying "avoid additional work when the knowledge is already obtained".

I'm not sure how to reply to that, I've never met your teachers, but that sounds pretty silly nonetheless.
Have you never had a teacher that would assign homework JUST so that you had homework? Not because it was necessary for study habits, not because it helped to cement a concept in your mind, but just so that there was work to be done?

If I recall, there was an official policy in my school district that every class had to issue homework at least once per week. EVERY CLASS, AT LEAST ONCE PER WEEK. Some classes didn't really adhere to it, but ugh, I don't want to tell you how many ****ing busywork pieces of **** I've had assigned over the ages.

I agree, but not doing it won't help your cause either. Just bull**** it. Also, keep in mind, the more work they give you, the more work for them. If they don't even check the actual work you do, just put some random bull**** down. Do roughly 10 or so problems legit, and then rest is garbage.
Yeah, well, what I'm arguing is for a reform of the system. I'm not saying what I'm saying so kids will sit out and eat bad grades, I'm saying what I'm saying hoping that I can convince others that I'm right, and in doing so, eventually the system may see change. For example, if Ms. Panda took my simple advice of "let their grades count more heavily on tests if they want", that would be at least one student who is able to get a good grade without having homework crammed down his throat.

I have a hard time comprehending this though, because I've never had a teacher who was so dominant towards homework. Maybe your school just sucks.
Maybe? How about "definitely". But I wouldn't say that my school is atypical either. I'd venture to say that most schools "definitely suck".

I think your parents above all would know if you were intelligent or not, regardless of how lazy you were. When you're very young, I'm sure they can realize how quickly you understand things, and how easily you can interpret them. I would imagine children wouldn't start to become lazy until their adolescence.
If this is a specific bite at me, I don't appreciate it. I assure you, I am not lazy. Have a talk with my bosses about my work ethic and they could set you straight.

If not, then I apologize for the insinuation, but I must also point out that often people may seem lazy and they're really just not properly motivated.

From Office Space:
"That's my real motivation - is not to be hassled. That and the fear of losing my job, but y'know, Bob, it will only make someone work hard enough not to get fired."

My example would only apply if the student had a hard time understanding the material. However, my point earlier was more so that parents blame the child's performance solely on the teacher, when the parents should make sure their child is keeping up with school work, keeping up good grades, etc., not just helping them with the actual material. Parents need to guide the children somehow.
"Keeping up good grades"...

That is not a solid measure of the child's understanding of the material. I've known people who didn't grasp ****, but got good grades by doing homework and extra credit to balance their poor test scores, and I've known kids who fail despite moderate to good test scores due to lack of homework.

But I see where you're going, and I agree a little. They should be "coaches". But even so, that is aside from the fact that homework doesn't help some students, and instead, only serves to hold them back. The problem in this case, in my opinion, isn't that parents are failing to coach, nor that students are failing to work, because the source of the problem is that teachers force potentially unnecessary additional work.

If you were a legit, and I mean legit genius, the schools would probably pay for you, or a at least a loan from the school. If you were that intelligent, a school would love someone of that caliber representing their educational system. however I'm not sure if that's entirely accurate.
Like I said, some of us may be below genius level (as I am sure that I actually am), yet still have a strong ability in learning and intelligence. My IQ is probably no higher than 125 or so, but in spite of this, I've been able to learn essentially anything I've ever attempted easily.

I'm not arguing for the clear geniuses, the ones who could just as easily be in MENSA. I'm arguing for the kids who aren't quite geniuses, yet are still leaps and bounds ahead of their average peer.

afrobean: ^super genius
I really don't appreciate the biting, personal attacks.

you might be more intelligent than me, however work harder than me is highly disagreeable. If I was a boss, why should I hire you if you can't prove to me that you put any effort into your job? You might say you can do the job easily, but you're only walking the walk, which is pretty useless in today's society.
I have a work history now that shows my work ethic. If I had my way in the school system, I'd also have a school transcript saying that I did well in a number of advanced classes. Who do you think would win between a person with a good established work history (i.e. WORK, as in JOB) and a good transcript or a person with a good transcript (that was potentially handed to them for their hard work rather than their proof of learned knowledge).

What I'm trying to say is that WORK ETHIC should be measured by WORK, not by EDUCATION. I go to school to learn, not to prove my work ethic.

**** that was annoying, gg you managed to make me kill a good 20 minutes reading though all of that ****. <3
:lol:

here's a very nice quote I might add:

"How do you know you're a genius if you can't even show it?"
Which is the idea I was alluding to when I made the comment about lazy kids not actually being bright, because if they were that lazy, their intelligence wouldn't be apparent.

>/ They moved a kid out of my class into a lower level class today. He's not low level, he just can't read. I'm saaaad.
Why couldn't they just get him special help in the reading department?

I mean, reading is a necessary skill throughout education; he's going to struggle no matter what level he's at if he can't read.

[iceefudgesickle]

Dun wury stretchypanda I r gud stood3nt

That's why I'm on the FFR Forums during my Computer Apps class!

Oh well screw taking Computer Apps seriously I get the work done in 5 minutes and then I sleep and mess around on the computer. Best class ever.

[IDKW2CM]

Dude my computer classes are so easy for me.
Only the bad thing is that the school blocks like every website imaginable.

[stretchypanda]

He's back! Yay for strategists!

[bluguerrilla]

No ESOL program or dual language or anything like that?

I know nothing about the Texas school system.

[stretchypanda]

We have those. He's not receiving ESL services anymore -- it's not his English. It's his reading. Who knows how he slipped through. It happens when you're in one of the largest/most understaffed districts in the country.

But now he's in my district yaaaay!

[dietsnapple135]

i'm a 4.0 unweighted student right now,
i know this kid in my grade, taken advanced classes all his life, but he obviously shouldnt be, he studies for math tests for 3-4 hours a night, because he just can't get it. he would do extra homework just so that he could make sure he understood it, and would still barely get that A that he desired so much.

i think he deserves it, and i think a kid that doesnt do work, no matter how capable, is an idiot.
sorry.

Agree'd. I'm one of the lazier 4.0 students at my school and a kid in my ap calc class(whom has a splendid 54 in the class) tells me how he's actually smarter than me and could top my grade (98.3 currently) if he tried at all. The fact is, no matter how smart you are(or claim), if you don't show it, it doesn't matter, you'll fail like everyone else you feel superior to.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

I'm guilty of not doing every assignment due to the fact i think it's ridiculous or to easy for me. I still listen and pass my tests though. Don't be stressed for it's probably not your fault the kids sat there and wasted their time in your class, they probably could have learned a neat fact. I wouldn't worry because its their loss. My adviser was all worried that i was going to fail a class cause I'm the advisory lazy/smarty Alec.If i remember correctly the only reason you'd have to worry is if they might lower your salary or fire you due to failing students (If they can do that I'm not sure.)

[Chrissi]

Texas scares me because they don't have proper sex education.

This makes me sad.

Also dildos are illegal and must be marketed as children's toys.



I've never been there so please correct me if I'm wrong, this is just what I've heard.