View Full Version : That's Just Not Right...That's Sick.
d4u7211
10-9-2008, 04:22 PM
So, i walk into fourth hour today waiting to talk to one of my best friends (since this is the only time i get to see him besides weekends). The first thing he says to me is: "Hey, guess what? I'm going to a feuneral tonight...for someone i dont even know!" He says it just as you might imagine, in one of those sarcastic-happy voices. I ask him why he's even going if its someone not in his family nor someone he knows. and he tells me.
He tells me that this is the feuneral of a young boy, around 15-18 i'd say, and he was in a coma in the hospital for some time due to him trying to commit suicide. The only reason that he wanted to do so was because of his mother, who had hated him as he grew up. She didnt hate him because of what he did, its because of how he was. The mother decided to take the boy off of life support because of how he was. He was GOING TO MAKE IT. He would have lived through the coma. She said "That boy should go to hell for that."
The boy was gay.
This is her reason for taking her own son's life....
Thats just so ****ing wrong...
phe0nixblade
10-9-2008, 04:23 PM
Although I don't really like homos, that's still wrong.
Quigly
10-9-2008, 04:27 PM
That's just...wow...dude WTF? I'm not gay but I have nothing against people that are. I hope the she knows what she has done and that she will have to live the rest of her life knowing that she did something horrible like that.
phe0nixblade
10-9-2008, 04:28 PM
Also, people please don't go flaming me because I said I don't like homos.
Cloud0005
10-9-2008, 04:29 PM
What kind of a monster would do something like that?
Euthanasia :3
And they prefer the term "Gay", just a heads up.
phe0nixblade
10-9-2008, 04:32 PM
Euthanasia :3
And they prefer the term "Gay", just a heads up.
Gay means loving or liking the same sex, so does homo. It's ok.
dietsnapple135
10-9-2008, 04:32 PM
That's pretty bad. What I find worse, though, is that I'm not at all surprised that it happened. I don't understand how some people have that kind of reasoning.
STD_Sappy
10-9-2008, 04:34 PM
I'd slap that bitch. I mean, seriously.
Tater Tot
10-9-2008, 04:45 PM
If the source of this story was only your friend, I'd say that you should not just take his word for it that her son being gay was her reason for pulling the plug. Try to see if there's another reason for her doing it. I'm sure that although she may not have approved of his sexual orientation, she must have had other motives. I don't think doctors would have allowed her to off him if they said he was going to recover.
If this is really true though, that is the most terrible thing I've heard in a while.
Most kids that age don't have wills. I know I don't, maybe I should make one now...
Redorigami
10-9-2008, 05:17 PM
Not surprised in the slightest, but it is pretty messed up D:
pntballa18
10-9-2008, 05:19 PM
my favorite part of this thread is how quickly the gay card was played
just because he was gay and his mom hated him doesn't mean she hated him for this reason. moms can hate straight people too.
revolutionomega
10-9-2008, 05:19 PM
Pretty messed up man. It's a cruel world out there...
Devilution
10-9-2008, 05:22 PM
Most kids that age don't have wills. I know I don't, maybe I should make one now...
Yeah exactly.. but now thinking of it I guess the doctors agreed to take him off life support because he tried to kill himself. If he was in a coma for any other reason besides attempted suicide, they probably would not have done it.
x After Dawn x
10-9-2008, 05:23 PM
Maybe she was extremely religious and placed her religious values over her own son (which is stupid and wrong).
[TeRa]
10-9-2008, 05:24 PM
There's nothing wrong with being gay, seriously, what a douche.
travman301
10-9-2008, 05:24 PM
Mabye he went into the coma from all of the man chowder in his anal tract.
Lol,jk. XD That really is pretty ****ed up.
So Ben, ask your friend if the kid was secksually active.
pntballa18
10-9-2008, 05:32 PM
also, this thread reminded me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qf0puHJ-KM
behanjc
10-9-2008, 05:34 PM
If the information as to the reasoning for pulling the plug was disclosed, I'm very surprised there was not some sort of lawyer appeal. Were there no relatives who aren't homophobes who would testify that the mother's unfit or something. I'm not sure of the exact laws, but I'm sure there's some way to circumvent the birth mother's right. I guess since the kid tried to commit suicide, maybe no one went against it.
Tragic indeed.
I try not to get so upset over things like this.. truth is, it happens, getting angry about it won't help.
Zageron
10-9-2008, 05:43 PM
What I find disgusting is the difference between Gay and Lesbian.
It's the same ****ing thing, but apparently the majority of the population think that WomanWoman is more acceptable than ManMan.
Quigly
10-9-2008, 05:49 PM
What I find disgusting is the difference between Gay and Lesbian.
It's the same ****ing thing, but apparently the majority of the population think that WomanWoman is more acceptable than ManMan.
Yeah I never understood why our society is like that.
Yeah I never understood why our society is like that.
It's because our society is male driven and men are naturally horny almost all the time, and what men want is two females having sex.
It's disgusting and wrong to have such a double standard like that and its horrible that the mother killed her own son for hating him, regardless of why she hated him.
"They'd have to like, scissor or something *scissors with fingers*"
OrganisM
10-9-2008, 07:38 PM
What I find disgusting is the difference between Gay and Lesbian.
It's the same ****ing thing, but apparently the majority of the population think that WomanWoman is more acceptable than ManMan.
"Tell you what, if I had my way, there wouldn't be any men in pornographic films. Cause you know, the only thing more beautiful than a woman, is two of them. That's right, two women together in bed is god's way of showing us how much he loves us. Two men together in bed is evil. Two women together in bed is a miracle bestowed upon god's children to give us hope and joy. Two men together in bed is satanic. You know, a lot of people think that is a double-standard? [chuckles] Poor misguided fools exist on this planet."
-Bill Hicks
It's because our society is male driven and men are naturally horny almost all the time, and what men want is two females having sex.
Are you really that naive? You really think that somehow male desires supersede female desires? You're insinuating that somehow males are obsessed with sex any more than females? Go learn something about life and live a little, you pretentious, clueless fool. I know everybody's a media whore these days and anything on MTV or CNN is right, but guess what? Things aren't always the way the telly portrays them. I hate to break it to you, but you've got to break out of your little fantasy world you're living in. Females think about sex every bit as much as males do, on the whole, and just as there are some females who think of sex less than most males, the reverse is also true. Get out and do some research, or at least a quick survey of the situation, instead of getting the media cock rammed down your throat and begging for more.
There are a lot of men obsessed with women having sex. But much of this is cultural. What is attractive to one culture is pointless and idiotic to another. Ever thought that so many of us are so well taught what we're supposed to think, that perhaps we don't know what we want anymore? I'm sure you haven't put much thought to that. But oh well, I suppose that's what I'm here for.
However, I don't see exactly what is inherently wrong with seeing beauty in sexual interaction between two females. Perhaps it's just more than carnal thirst, that maybe some of us see it as beautiful? I have no problem with homosexuality, man-to-man or woman-to-woman. My ideals don't place those kinds of stupid constrictions. What I want to see is more people being true to themselves instead of being sellout whores. That I think is an epidemic, and that's the real crime.
Let me guess, you're about 13 years old, marijuana is bad for you, sex should wait until marriage, you're never going to make any mistakes in life, and you know everything. Funny how that always works out. Don't worry, these next few years should cure you of your illusions. If not, you're primed to join the masses of consumer whores who do as they're told. Guess you just can't fix stupid.
Rayje666
10-9-2008, 08:23 PM
good we dont need anymore fags on this planet, the mother did a good thing by ridding us with such a pestilence
Professor Raine
10-9-2008, 08:26 PM
He kills himself due to the fact that Christians commit a sin by demoralizing people that aren't heterosexual (i.e. not adhering to the "Love Thy Neighbor" testament). To bad for him. He gonna end up burning in hell with those people. I betcha the devil feels sorry for him. :/
p.s. Anc's remix of Ray Of Darkness isn't as good as GFB's remix of it. Of course the original is pretty cool too.
Silver_Brian
10-9-2008, 08:31 PM
Thats just so ****ing wrong...
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/customavatars/avatar1015474_15.gif
Rayje666
10-9-2008, 08:32 PM
He kills himself due to the fact that Christians commit a sin by demoralizing people that aren't heterosexual (i.e. not adhering to the "Love Thy Neighbor" testament). To bad for him. He gonna end up burning in hell with those people. I betcha the devil feels sorry for him. :/
p.s. Anc's remix of Ray Of Darkness isn't as good as GFB's remix of it. Of course the original is pretty cool too.
link to the original please?
edit: champion of war i love you, **** furfags they are just as bad as normal fags
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/customavatars/avatar1015474_15.gif
Once again, I'm the only clean furry.
pntballa18
10-9-2008, 08:38 PM
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/customavatars/avatar1366954_269.gif
i dont think this thing is bending over because it's playing pool
The full version's in My Photo's. So yeah.
IDKW2CM
10-9-2008, 08:59 PM
Wow I've read every post on this thread and It's actually interesting at all the different opinions.
ieatyourlvllol
10-9-2008, 09:35 PM
tl;dr CT-style post alert
I find it shameful that a person would place his/her beliefs at a value above that of another individual's life (and offspring, no less!). It also suggests an idealized selfishness, one that tramples on the rights of another person to hold to his/her natural persona - something which at its most basic roots cannot be unearthed by sheer will. Indeed, a sizable portion of society has closed its mind to the extent of having established certain precedents that have become the basis for -supposedly- proper standards for social behavior. Contrary to their intent, however, the change originally planned to have come of the targeted group's own accord has instead been induced by the gruesome power of conformist influence, and though the result may be the same, it doesn't take away from the fact that it was achieved through the force of opposition rather than its effectiveness. Even then, it leaves the question of whether people have, in the first place, the right to challenge less commonly held orientations. In any case, I believe that the woman exhibited a stunning lack of judgment, and because she let her emotions dictate her actions, she failed not only her son, but also herself and the concept of free will.
Professor Raine
10-9-2008, 09:40 PM
The full version's in My Photo's. So yeah.
yeah, no one's gonna see it with the mindset we go now just from infering what's there.
And I think I'm sorta clean too.
IDKW2CM
10-9-2008, 09:43 PM
This is the ultimate hate post, and btw that 1st post with the friend that told that story could not be true... like other people mentioned... but now this post is arguing about gay/straight/clean/pics/flamewarsortof
Redorigami
10-9-2008, 09:43 PM
And I think I'm sorta clean too.
Ohai me too :)
psychopete
10-9-2008, 09:52 PM
Once again, I'm the only clean furry.
Lies.
btw that 1st post with the friend that told that story could not be true...
It's more likely than you think, y'know.
All I have to say on this matter, really, is...well...see the topic title, that's just not right, it's disgusting that someone can do that to their own child. That woman is the most pitiful excuse for a mother.
Tater Tot
10-9-2008, 09:59 PM
Psycho, this is a post on the Internet you're talking about. For all anybody knows, it could have been written by monkeys tripping their balls off on LSD.
IDKW2CM
10-9-2008, 10:04 PM
After reading this thread and trying to understand peoples replies to it makes me feel that way.
psychopete
10-9-2008, 10:05 PM
Psycho, this is a post on the Internet you're talking about. For all anybody knows, it could have been written by monkeys tripping their balls off on LSD.
Well, of course. Just speaking from personal experience, is all. Doesn't make the general idea any less disturbing.
RubiedCross
10-9-2008, 10:40 PM
If the story is true and the reason for her basically killing her son/him committing suicide is because she hated him being gay, that's extremely wrong. I doubt it is though so I'll leave it at that.
For those talking about homosexuality and believes etc., I'd love to have a conversation some time, in all seriousness. I mean, I am the one who started the worst and simultaneously best thread of the year for '07.
At first I got mad when I read this. Then I got sad. But the truth is, any emotion is a waste because we can't change it. It's embedded into the world. It can be banned, abolished, outlawed, but it'll still be there like racism or drugs. It's not going anywhere.
Necamus
10-9-2008, 10:55 PM
The boy was gay.
Would be totally acceptable if he was a furry.
sarahxjane
10-9-2008, 11:02 PM
How do you know that anything this kid says is factual?
Chaosvermin
10-10-2008, 12:29 AM
Stuff like this happens all the time, worse stuff happens just as much.
I don't see the point of you telling us this as its not going to change anything at all.
TL;DR Useless
Would be totally acceptable if he was a furry.
If he was i would have sent him to yiff in hell personally.
d4u7211
10-10-2008, 05:30 PM
i dont mean to revive this thread, i just never had a chance to comment. i have been informed that yes, this is why the mother took her child off of life support. but really, im mainly posting now to point out the stupidity of some of you people. i cant believe that some of you started pointing out that im a furry and that the boy was gay. We all have our own groups and beliefs and desires, and it makes you no more intellegent to go flaming a group for no apparent reason. maybe furries went and distorted your mind because you cant handle turning anything into logic, so you hold grudges. but really, did i do anything to deserve some of the hate comments that i got? i cant believe some of you people sometimes...use some brains and realize prejudice in any shape or form for no apparent reason (and when i say reason i dont include "i just dont like them" because that gives you no reason to point out someone's preference in any way) is what spawns this type of hatred and ends up taking the lives of innocent. people like that just help vicious cycles like this survive.
Black Yoshi
10-10-2008, 05:46 PM
What a huge ****ing bitch... SHE should go to hell for this ****.
=/... That's horrible.
OrganisM
10-10-2008, 05:49 PM
useless drivel
Just to let you know. We care. Hardcoar.
wwwJ4mmYcouk
10-10-2008, 06:48 PM
I dont even believe the story to be honest... if it was on snopes.com it would be a big fat False.
But... lets for one seconds believe it: The mother is a **** thats see you N T
virus003
10-10-2008, 07:48 PM
If the story is true and the reason for her basically killing her son/him committing suicide is because she hated him being gay, that's extremely wrong. I doubt it is though so I'll leave it at that.
For those talking about homosexuality and believes etc., I'd love to have a conversation some time, in all seriousness. I mean, I am the one who started the worst and simultaneously best thread of the year for '07.
Is it this thread? : http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=82536
You make a good point in it.
Chaosvermin
10-10-2008, 08:18 PM
What a huge ****ing bitch... SHE should go to hell for this ****.
=/... That's horrible
So Pedobear is more justified?
Lol.
i cant believe that some of you started pointing out... ...that the boy was gay.
So we are not supposed to point out one of the main purposes of this thread? The prejudice against the boy being homosexual?
did i do anything to deserve some of the hate comments that i got?
I believe the comments were more aimed at furries in general.
TheCookieMonster
10-10-2008, 08:41 PM
wow... I believe homosexuality isn't something to be PUNISHED, but I think it isn't natural.
I believe that someone lustfully went after the same sex (as well as the opposite), then the choice altered his genes (because of thought patterns) and he, eventually, made that 'personality' trait pass on to other generations. This, apparently, didn't show in every case since the gene is recessive (most likely) and the bisexuals are the cross (like when you have double coloured hair). Gays do NOT choose to be gay, though this gene can be changed through harsh aversive conditioning.
The first "homosexual" (which must of been bisexual)may of came from way back in the first few hundred thousand humans.
I'm not completely sure about this, but this is just crazy.
EDIT: as defense of the 'personality trait' subject, they found that adopted children are (on average) more like their biological parents than their adoptee parents.
Chaosvermin
10-10-2008, 09:05 PM
I believe that someone lustfully went after the same sex then the choice altered his genes
......
I think it isn't natural.
This also contradicts your whole argument.
OrganisM
10-10-2008, 09:17 PM
useless drivel
Man, it's just an epidemic around here. Nice research, you really deserve respect for your reasoning. Think before you post. And for god's sake, learn a little about genetics and nature vs. nurture before you make those kinds of claims.
So I have gay genes? I thought it was a psychological thing.
Fenrirs Nova
10-11-2008, 12:29 AM
I'm pretty sure being gay is not at all related to heredity in any way. It's either starts and continues for social reasons such as in identity crisis or the hormones are not at "normal" levels. Quotations because normal is a relative term. At early stages of growth in the womb, the baby is in a way, "marinated" by different levels of hormones. I believe that homosexual persons are exposed to more estrogen in the womb than the "average" male. That and/or the body of the person produces "abnormal" amounts of the different hormones, whether it be excessive estrogen or deficiency of testosterone.
That is the more likely cause. Another cause would be because of the different kind of nurture by the parents and maybe not by nature... But what do I know?...
iceefudgesickle
10-11-2008, 03:46 AM
This is just plain evil, it's horrible, it's murder.
I hate people who say that gays are going to hell. See, I'm Christian, but do I go around saying gays are bad people and that they deserve to die? No way! Yes I consider being gay a sin but someone who is gay is no worse or no better than someone who is not gay.
I can't stand people like that.
flipsta_lombax
10-11-2008, 07:23 AM
So I have gay genes? I thought it was a psychological thing.
Well my psychology teacher claims the way our genes are structured will lead to variable personality traits. She said in a biological psychologist point of view, it's a "chemical imbalance" in guy's testosterone levels and vice versa.
Homosexuality is the only 'sin' that baffles me because it is the only one involving a personality. Every other sin I believe is a decision-based thing... (if you can prove me wrong here, please do so...). I'm thinking as if the interpretations have been misunderstood. Reading Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis doesn't convince me, all for the fact that the people who were at Lot's door were demanding for sex, in the most deceitful way. Straight or homosexual, it still would have been sinful...
Anyway, people point out homosexuality as if it's the biggest deal of a sin compared to other ones. Last time I remember, a sin is a sin. If you have sinned, regardless of what you do, it's doom for you. A homosexual isn't more in trouble than a liar.
And who said people have the right to judge btw? Who said people have the right to tell people they are going to Hell? Bible says those are wrong too, yet "DEVOTED Christians" continue to do such things. Not saying every devout does this... my point is, that mother have sinned more than her son. Her son may have been homosexual, but the mother have committed murder and deemed him to Hell. That is wrong, and it's not forgivable for a human's point of view.
I'm a born homosexual, and I've known that eversince my aunts and uncles told me how I act amongst boys and whatnot when I was really young. My parents didn't want to hear this or find out from me that I was really homosexual, so I hid it until I got to high school. They clearly said they would kill me if they find out. Right to my face.
I've moved out now, and the only time they'll see my face is when I need their tax returns for my damn FAFSA. They may never know that I am really gay...****, they seclude themselves from the outside world anyway.
OrganisM
10-11-2008, 07:44 AM
I'm pretty sure being gay is not at all related to heredity in any way. It's either starts and continues for social reasons such as in identity crisis or the hormones are not at "normal" levels. Quotations because normal is a relative term. At early stages of growth in the womb, the baby is in a way, "marinated" by different levels of hormones. I believe that homosexual persons are exposed to more estrogen in the womb than the "average" male. That and/or the body of the person produces "abnormal" amounts of the different hormones, whether it be excessive estrogen or deficiency of testosterone.
That is the more likely cause. Another cause would be because of the different kind of nurture by the parents and maybe not by nature... But what do I know?...
You're pretty sure based on conjectures drawn from almost entirely irrelevant information. Through this you've shown me you know absolutely nothing. I don't care if any of you think I'm being a whiny asshole. This pseudo-fact has got to stop. Enough FUD, disinformation, and propaganda.
What it seems to me is that genetics act as a palette full of certain mixes of colors. The development in the womb acts as tints and shades, and the environment is the surface on which these elements are displayed. The growth is the way the paint falls on the canvas. Easiest way to describe it, and if we're throwing pseudo-fact and fake research around, I believe this theory is as good as any.
PS - To anybody who thinks homosexuality is wrong, go kill yourself. No, seriously, you'll be doing the world a favor. There's enough bigotry out there already. I've had enough of it, and as a straight male I don't even have to take the brunt of it. Keep your mouth shut before you confirm my suspicions on how stupid you really are.
KA0Z R4VR
10-11-2008, 08:06 AM
After reading this article http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/08/14/what_makes_people_gay/ I am leaning towards a more "genetic" reason for being gay.
After reading the OP, it infuriates me to think that either:
A. The bitch *for lack of a "better" word* really did kill her son over sexual orientation
or
B. Someone actually though this story up during excessive hours of boredom, hatred and ignorance
EDIT: That article is long, but worth the read IMO...
pntballa18
10-11-2008, 09:30 AM
PS - To anybody who thinks homosexuality is wrong, go kill yourself. No, seriously, you'll be doing the world a favor. There's enough bigotry out there already. I've had enough of it, and as a straight male I don't even have to take the brunt of it. Keep your mouth shut before you confirm my suspicions on how stupid you really are.
if you don't believe what i believe, you're wrong.
OrganisM
10-11-2008, 01:05 PM
if you don't believe what i believe, you're wrong.
Funny how that's the one thing you could take from the post.
I don't apologize. You can be childish and stupid all you want, which I know you will be because that is the level on which you operate. Contrary to popular belief, this myth that I believe my opinion is the only one that is ever valid is simply not true. The thing is, it's easiest to be a whiny dickhead, and so that's what many of you do because you have absolutely nothing to contribute.
There are a few issues (NOT all) on which I don't believe there should be any question about. Like "is rape okay?". I don't see anyone clamoring to seriously support rape. If we were all speaking in person, something tells me I wouldn't hear in the background "rape is awesome!". In my mind, homosexuality is on the same level. Being a bigot and a pig is not acceptable on any level, and none of your arguments against homosexuality are ever, ever valid. They're based on FUD and lies. The argument for homosexuality's basis certainly seems a little more well thought-out and based somewhere in the realm of reality and fact.
OWAIT, it appears that homosexuality isn't as popular. Sorry gaiz, if the public full of sheeple doesn't wholeheartedly back it, it must be wrong.
I swear to god, dealing with the large population of people like you on this site makes me very sad for my generation's collective intelligence, if we could objectively measure such a thing.
"Teach how you will, a pig can never play the flute."
pntballa18
10-11-2008, 01:20 PM
if every time you used the word "you" in your post, organism, you were referring to me, this is my response:
i've made three posts in this thread. one saying there is no proof that the mother killed her son because he was gay, the second linking to a youtube video, and the third making fun of you. from these three posts, could you tell me how you came to this conclusion about me?
Being a bigot and a pig is not acceptable on any level, and none of your arguments against homosexuality are ever, ever valid. They're based on FUD and lies. The argument for homosexuality's basis certainly seems a little more well thought-out and based somewhere in the realm of reality and fact.
I swear to god, dealing with the large population of people like you on this site makes me very sad for my generation's collective intelligence, if we could objectively measure such a thing.
if those "you"s were not directed at me, then disregard what i just said and learn to use less pronouns
OrganisM
10-11-2008, 02:05 PM
Again, easier to be the dickhead, which is what most of the forum members seem to lean towards.
If I feel I've done something wrong, I will apologize. But I won't say "sorry" when I feel it isn't justified. I know it's hard to comprehend, KgZ, but keep trying and eventually it should click.
OrganisM
10-11-2008, 02:26 PM
I only act like a dickhead when the person is acting like a retarded twat.
no u
PS- Some people believe that homosexuality is wrong. Who are we to judge that they are morally inhumane?
Sometimes not all is well and agreeable and you're not going to respectfully disagree. We can't always be civil as we rip each other's entrails out. That's what politicians are for.
pokelda
10-11-2008, 02:28 PM
Yeah I never understood why our society is like that.
who else laughed at this
pokelda
10-11-2008, 02:31 PM
Once again, I'm the only clean furry.
and you're the only one with a ****ing furry penis sticking out throbbing on your ****ing msn display pic and when ever you message me its as though that dick is sticking out from my display and touching my forehead and it makes me want to go wash my face **** you furry and bull**** on your "clean" claim god damn
Being gay isn't a choice.
What is this thread about again?
I did that just to talk to you pokelda<3
Otherwise it's something else.
OrganisM
10-11-2008, 02:57 PM
what kind of excuse is that
It's not an excuse.
Many white old people believe that a black person shouldn't be a president. Are they wrong to believe that?
Yes, bigotry and racism are wrong, no matter how popular they might be. I already understand that you have no ideals.
Maybe, however they might still be nice and great people otherwise.
Yeah, great except for being ignorant bigots and racist fuckheads.
OrganisM
10-11-2008, 03:02 PM
iknorite
ieatyourlvllol
10-11-2008, 03:03 PM
Hey...this thread's supposed to about whether or not it's proper to label and ostracize certain people based on their deviation from social norm, not about the validity of opinions founded on personal conjectures (that manifest in a form interpreted to be an insinuation of truth). You already know very well the mutual impassibility of arguing the latter against particularly obstinate individuals.
Anyways, I think that though the belief that homosexuality deems a person inherently reprehensible is not necessarily -wrong- per se (as is demanded by the concept of freedom of thought), it is usually attributed to the establishmentarianism that arises from the assertive influences of either upbringing or media contact. Thus, I don't think any less of those who hold to such notions, but I do scorn the way in which the world has developed such that the standards have degenerated to the widespread anathematization we see today. Favoring the same gender doesn't make anyone innately evil - just different (in the eyes of so-called "normal" people) to the point that general consensus lends itself to ill-bred bigotry. In any case, homophobia also isn't -wrong-, so to speak, but it certainly does not grant to a person the right to act maliciously towards those they disagree with.
OrganisM
10-11-2008, 03:11 PM
The malicious act is particularly what gets me. People can believe what they want to believe, but it would be rather nice if people actually derived their opinions from some basis in fact. Opinions can differ, but some seem to me better than others based on where they were derived from.
OrganisM
10-11-2008, 04:22 PM
Or that I respect most people, despite their subjective flaws.
You respect bigots.
this is so ****ing ironic it's not even funny holy ****
You're insinuating I'm an ignorant bigot for being tolerant of homosexuality?
GG_Guru
10-11-2008, 04:26 PM
There should be a "do we accept homosexuals in our community" thread for this.
But personally, who cares if the dudes gay, its his choice.
Fenrirs Nova
10-11-2008, 05:31 PM
You're pretty sure based on conjectures drawn from almost entirely irrelevant information. Through this you've shown me you know absolutely nothing. I don't care if any of you think I'm being a whiny asshole. This pseudo-fact has got to stop. Enough FUD, disinformation, and propaganda. Look, I'm putting in my opinion just like how forums should be. Doesn't matter what you think or I think is correct, it's not going to make as big of a difference to the world as you might think. And going around telling people that they are wrong is stupid. I know for a fact that you do NOT know everything there is to know about this world so instead of invalidating everyone's opinions, please respect them and take them into consideration. You're not the only person on this planet good enough to give or express your opinion on the matter. It's time to be rational...
But I do have to agree with you that people who think gay persons should die and go to hell are being a little bit (calm down) extreme. It is how a person is and as long as being gay does not hurt the individual or anyone else, the matter should just be left alone. (opinion)
sonic-fast-fingers
10-11-2008, 05:46 PM
Also, people please don't go flaming me because I said I don't like homos.
I know this is a serious thread but this made me lol.
psychopete
10-11-2008, 06:34 PM
You respect bigots.
You're insinuating I'm an ignorant bigot for being tolerant of homosexuality?
Isn't it bigotry to hate someone because they're a bigot, as well? Just saying.
TheCookieMonster
10-11-2008, 08:40 PM
......
This also contradicts your whole argument.
I did know something seemed wrong with what I was saying...
but still, no one is sure about this whole thing of "homosexuality" anyways.
I was just proposing a theory... I guess?
EDIT: I don't really like arguments... they have too many loopholes
OrganisM
10-12-2008, 12:38 AM
Look, I'm putting in my opinion just like how forums should be.
Without being based remotely in fact? No.
Doesn't matter what you think or I think is correct, it's not going to make as big of a difference to the world as you might think.This collective "world" you speak of is made up of approximately 6.7 billion individuals. We are individuals, and if every individual held themselves to a higher standard, obviously the collective would rise to a higher standard. And that's no excuse to be making a piss poor argument. Don't redirect the discussion.
And going around telling people that they are wrong is stupid. I know for a fact that you do NOT know everything there is to know about this world so instead of invalidating everyone's opinions, please respect them and take them into consideration.I will not respect baseless opinions. If you do not ground it in fact at least somewhat, your opinion is worthless. "I think gay people suck because strawberry jam is sticky!" is not the same as "Homosexuality bothers me personally, and my aversion to it prevents me from accepting it as another person's choice."
You're not the only person on this planet good enough to give or express your opinion on the matter.Didn't say I was. Don't put words in my mouth. There are a few people whose opinions I do respect here, but they don't seem to post very often in these threads. Most of you, to be quite honest (this isn't an insult) make impossible arguments with poor logic with pseudo-fact. I try to refrain from that, but it seems nobody here cares about making a complete argument and instead reverts to "I have an opinion so it must be valid, and there's no such thing as an invalid opinion! WAHH"
It is how a person is and as long as being gay does not hurt the individual or anyone else, the matter should just be left alone. (opinion)So if I'm straight, and my love of a woman hurts me and could hurt her, that's okay, but if I were gay and involved with a man in a situation that could hurt us, then it would be totally wrong?
KA0Z R4VR
10-12-2008, 01:14 AM
multi-quote that should be left in the CT forums and not in Chit Chat
Alright, I understand your right to define and critique everyone's argument, but the whole issue itself is opinion. Whether there is a gene that causes "gays" to be gay or nurture is to blame, the OP talked about a situation (fact or fiction) and in the end started stating an opinion that branched off into the rights and wrongs of gay relationships and how society should accept, challenge, or deny sexuality. As you said there are about 6.7 billion individuals in the world. Many of which have an opinion on a general subject. And whether or not they have "baseless" opinion (also known as being bias), they are entitled to that opinion. And for you to point out fallacies like you know every logical reasoning is starting to derail this "chit chat" into a "tl;dr" forum.
Fenrirs Nova
10-12-2008, 02:15 AM
To OrganisM, I have to wonder why you have to be so critical about every(figuratively speaking) word that I say. If all you can do(again, speaking figuratively) is get so serious about a small discussion on the internet, I would rather not talk(figurative) to you.
By deductive reasoning, I've concluded that you have nothing else to look forward to except arguing on this thread and and trying to make yourself seem superior to everyone else. Please just don't reply to this because I know that all I'm going to read is some bollocks about how ignorant and idiotic I am and how I'm such a "bigot" and maybe some other things but I'm going to guess that they will negative comments/statements(I apologize for the run-on sentence). Listen(figurative) to yourself. Who is the ignorant one here(rhetorical question)? I have to resort to explaining almost everything I say since you love to belittle everyone(figurative) that says anything. If you think/know someone is wrong, do some research for yourself (if you feel so strongly about it) and enlighten him or her. (And my opinions were based on things I learned in simple AP Biology class in high school(which is biology 101 in college) and basic high school psychology. I hoped you would have at least a little knowledge on such fundamental subjects.)
Now... Being gay is against the Bible. The Bible says that gay persons should be stoned(rocks thrown at them). I think that is wrong and immoral. It would be nice if we all were in Stage 6 of Kohlberg's moral development but the world will never be that way. The world is not perfect. Nothing is perfect. So as long as there is something that plainly exists-anything at all- it will be flawed in some way. Humanity is flawed so this kind of argument exists. Homosexuality exists and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Period.
Grandiagod
10-12-2008, 02:17 AM
if my child was a furry i'd kill him coma or no coma
qqwref
10-12-2008, 02:24 AM
It doesn't matter whether you think homosexuality is wrong or not, really. That's a matter of opinion. The important thing is how you act when you think someone is doing something wrong. Telling them you have a problem with it is fine, arguing about it is fine, liking them less is fine... but if you, as a private citizen, try to completely ostracize someone, physically hurt them, or even kill them for doing something that doesn't actually hurt you (other than you being bothered by it), you've done something that is objectively wrong. There's no way to justify seriously hurting someone when they haven't done anything to you. I don't think there's any real difference in killing someone for being homosexual and killing someone for being a smoker or having different political views than you or just being someone you don't like.
KA0Z R4VR
10-12-2008, 04:32 AM
To OrganisM exactly what someone needs to say
And for the last line of the post. It's true. 100%. Exists, can't do much about it, and stop being so critical.
You're pushed to being critical when it kills you. Hence the thread.
psychopete
10-12-2008, 10:29 AM
OrganisM, the thing is, though, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how baseless it may be. Besides, you not liking bigots due to the fact that they're bigots is bigotry itself.
Now, I'm (of course) all for people being tolerant of us, but then again, there is intolerance in this world, no matter what. We can't do anything to change that.
As for the issue of not feeling anything about the event described in the OP, just because we can't change anything doesn't mean we can't be angry due to them being a despicable human being. It may be wasted anger, but it's natural to be angry at something inhumane.
It may be natural, but what exactly are you going to do with that anger? Are you going to go punch a wall because of something that happened that's completely out of your control? The anger is useless.
csoup1414
10-12-2008, 10:53 AM
If the source of this story was only your friend, I'd say that you should not just take his word for it that her son being gay was her reason for pulling the plug. Try to see if there's another reason for her doing it. I'm sure that although she may not have approved of his sexual orientation, she must have had other motives. I don't think doctors would have allowed her to off him if they said he was going to recover.
If this is really true though, that is the most terrible thing I've heard in a while.
I agree, some things get pretty twisted up when coming from other people, not the source. I experieced it on Friday (ugh, band kids).
Anyway, that is a horrible thing to do only because somebody is gay.
People disgust me >=[
OrganisM
10-12-2008, 11:25 AM
By deductive reasoning, I've concluded that you have nothing else to look forward to except arguing on this thread and and trying to make yourself seem superior to everyone else.
By deductive reasoningBy deductive reasoningA syllogism:
All cats have hair
Socrates had hair
Therefore Socrates was a cat.
Your inference is incorrect, and I'll actually be the better person in not insinuating how your life must be running. I know, the fact that I don't post about all of what is going in my life must be killing you with suspense. But the fact that I haven't posted about it doesn't necessarily mean nothing is happening. Oh wait, your logic is bulletproof. I rest my case.
PS - There are people whose opinions I do respect. Chief among them is devonin. Same with Jewpin. I also hold respect for Squeek, Mal, TRD, Grandiagod, even Guido with our pleasant exchanges. There are also several others I haven't listed, but I suppose since I haven't begged them for a dongshot in the face, that means I must not value their opinions.
It's funny, you guys talk all about how FFR's forums are going to hell and how nobody is showing up, yet when I try to show interest, you shut me down and say I don't have a life. And don't say it's because of how abrasive I am, or because of anything about me. Most people here act that way to anybody who's not a part of their little "group".
I've got news for you - I own and run a business, take classes online, am in the process of writing a book, I'm learning music production and upgrading my equipment, I'm helping another business with IT matters, and I'm dealing with a messy relationship situation. I'd say that makes my days pretty full. But hey, because I don't advertise it and post whiny threads screaming woe is me, it must not be happening. And if I choose to involve myself in this community, I must have no life. Your inferences are garbage, and this is why I think you're a piece of ****.
ieatyourlvllol
10-12-2008, 11:37 AM
I think this thread has deteriorated because strawberry jam is sticky!
OrganisM
10-12-2008, 11:56 AM
And by default apparently you cannot be wrong!
robertsona
10-12-2008, 12:10 PM
i like pears so buttsex can give you cancer
Fenrirs Nova
10-12-2008, 12:15 PM
I've got news for you - I own and run a business, take classes online, am in the process of writing a book, I'm learning music production and upgrading my equipment, I'm helping another business with IT matters, and I'm dealing with a messy relationship situation. I'd say that makes my days pretty full. But hey, because I don't advertise it and post whiny threads screaming woe is me, it must not be happening. And if I choose to involve myself in this community, I must have no life. Your inferences are garbage, and this is why I think you're a piece of ****.
Well... *sigh* If that's the way you feel, I can't stop you. And once again, since I didn't put a (figurative) on the sentence, you have taken it literally. Nonetheless, my opinion hasn't changed one bit about homosexuality. If you can't change someone's perspective by debate and discussion, your time spent trying has been wasted. You're not very good at arguing, only criticism. Actually very good at criticism(not being sarcastic). But I'm not going to try to change that because it might be a good trait, but also because at my current level of knowledge on psychology, it's impossible. Again, my opinion hasn't changed. But thanks all for the entertaining chat. You especially, OrganisM. ^.^
psychopete
10-12-2008, 12:18 PM
It may be natural, but what exactly are you going to do with that anger? Are you going to go punch a wall because of something that happened that's completely out of your control? The anger is useless.
Whoa, who said anything about using that anger for anything? There are points where you just feel angry that something happened, it's not like you have to do anything because of your anger.
long post
Wow, we weren't saying you were wrong or acting like your opinion doesn't matter. Your opinion has just as much merit as another person's (EDIT: by that I mean that we're not ignoring your views, not tossing them to the side, you have a right to speak your mind as well). People think the way they think, we can't change that (unless you suddenly gain the ability to manipulate people through the internet, but sorry, that eBay auction ended). People form opinions based on things without a shred of evidence behind it all the time, we can't stop it from happening, despite how stupid it is.
I think this thread has deteriorated because strawberry jam is sticky!
A+ response, would read again.
KA0Z R4VR
10-12-2008, 05:39 PM
This thread started to lose its meaning. Can we close this? This is pointless...
IDKW2CM
10-12-2008, 05:44 PM
Yes, I agree.
Close it.
Tater Tot
10-12-2008, 05:45 PM
Dude, this thread lost its meaning on page two.
Silvuh
10-12-2008, 06:12 PM
By deductive reasoning, I've concluded that you have nothing else to look forward to except arguing on this thread and and trying to make yourself seem superior to everyone else.
And once again, since I didn't put a (figurative) on the sentence, you have taken it literally.
The quote above this one equates to saying "You have no life". You said you came to the conclusion through deductive reasoning, so it sounds like you meant to be taken seriously. I'd like to know how you thought someone would be able to assume you didn't mean for it to be taken literally.
Nonetheless, my opinion hasn't changed one bit about homosexuality.
When you say "homosexuality", do you mean "what causes homosexuality"? If not, then that sentence is irrelevant. If so, then that's too bad. After stating your belief, you were advised to base your beliefs on facts. Seems like a reasonable request, right? Criticism might not change your beliefs, but perhaps research will.
Your opinion has just as much merit as another person's.
Why are people still saying this... What you're saying supports the reasoning that the opinions of a scholar who knows the facts about the subject at hand have no more merit than opinions not supported with logic and fact from someone else. I would like to see a revised statement that invalidates this retort.
About the event described in the OP... well, I have nothing to say about it that hasn't already been said. Odd how there was no ... law stuff going on in that situation, as behanjc mentioned on the first page. That's what worries me more, because that's an issue with the law and not a person's beliefs—if I'm not mistaken.
Triple-Ninja'd edit: Well, as I said, I can't think of anything that hasn't already been said. Maybe other people have that same thought, too. (Which may be why they aren't posting about it.) It would be nice if the OP returned with more information on the event—information that answers some of our questions, that is. ("I was informed that ..." doesn't cut it, because it states no source.) Maybe then the topic will return to its original meaning.
OrganisM
10-12-2008, 06:54 PM
because at my current level of knowledge on psychology, it's impossible
You are an idiot, and on top of that, you're incredibly arrogant. Funny how I get accused of that and yet I don't have this pretense that somehow I'm right just because I am. I actually base my opinions on some sort of fact or substance and then back it up with a good argument. You just say 'WAHH I'M RIGHT BECAUSE I AM, WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY UNDERSTAND ME?! WAHH"
People think the way they think, we can't change that. People form opinions based on things without a shred of evidence behind it all the time, we can't stop it from happening, despite how stupid it is.
So when there's ignorance and stupidity out there it's best to just sit down and shut up? Funny how any time I just might be right, you and several others revert to "well you know what? It didn't matter anyways." You lose, get over yourself.
the whole issue itself is opinion. And whether or not they have "baseless" opinion (also known as being bias), they are entitled to that opinion. And for you to point out fallacies like you know every logical reasoning is starting to derail this "chit chat" into a "tl;dr" forum.
So you're calling Critical Thinking a derailed tl;dr forum? All opinions are not equal. Regardless of opinion, it must be DERIVED from fact. If you base it on thin air, your argument is worthless and your opinion means nothing. We're supposed to be entitled to our opinions, yet so few of us bother to substantiate them. And the fact that you're allowed to be a misinformed jackass doesn't make your opinion valid, nor does it make all opinions equally valid.
psychopete
10-12-2008, 08:02 PM
So when there's ignorance and stupidity out there it's best to just sit down and shut up? Funny how any time I just might be right, you and several others revert to "well you know what? It didn't matter anyways." You lose, get over yourself.
Tell me this, what exactly do you have to personally gain from calling someone ignorant? It's not going to change who they are. It isn't right that people are ignorant, yes. But are our words going to drastically alter the way people think? No, we don't have that kind of influence.
Also, you're telling me to get over myself? Ahaha, you make me laugh.
Flaming_Dingleberry
10-12-2008, 08:18 PM
The mother should go to prison, she basically murdered him, and same for the retards who let the homophobic mother decide to let him die. Just because there's a system we have to follow in order to decide whether pull the plug, can't we input some logic in these situations?
DossarLX ODI
10-12-2008, 08:42 PM
Well, I have a question for this kind of behavior: Does a person start out as naturally good and become corrupted by society/environment, or does a person start out as naturally "bad" and become good from society/environment?
OrganisM
10-12-2008, 09:07 PM
Tell me this, what exactly do you have to personally gain from calling someone ignorant? It's not going to change who they are. It isn't right that people are ignorant, yes. But are our words going to drastically alter the way people think? No, we don't have that kind of influence.
Again, you're all but saying that my argument has no merit because you believe it won't change people. Perhaps most of you here are too dense to understand anything, but there are many out there who will listen to reason, and my life is all about making that change. The arts have a close connection to everyone's hearts, and that's the way I believe promoting change will be most effective. If you want to sit down and shut up and resign yourself to never being able to make a change in the world, fine. But don't insinuate that I don't have the willpower to make that change.
Also, you're telling me to get over myself? Ahaha, you make me laugh.Yes, I am. And you're feigning amusement instead of taking my advice. I'm starting to see a trend here, though I already privately made the assumption that you're an ass. You're even better at it than I am. Congratulations to you, but I have bigger priorities. At least you can die knowing you have one accomplishment under your belt.
Grandiagod
10-12-2008, 09:46 PM
hey look i'm tough on the internet, you can't tell me what to do
OrganisM
10-12-2008, 09:59 PM
Ya cut me deep man, ya cut me deep.
robertsona
10-12-2008, 10:01 PM
Look at me and my condescending attitude on the internet woops forgot nobody likes me.
/troll
OrganisM
10-12-2008, 10:07 PM
You're not clever.
Chaosvermin
10-12-2008, 10:59 PM
Shut the **** up.
/Thread
IDKW2CM
10-12-2008, 11:06 PM
FlashFlashRevolution Forums > Introductions > Chit Chat
That's Just Not Right...That's Troll
OrganisM
10-12-2008, 11:15 PM
Shut the **** up.
/Thread
End yourself.
/Life
IDKW2CM
10-12-2008, 11:18 PM
FlashFlashRevolution Forums > Introductions > Chit Chat
That's Just Not Right...That's Troll
KA0Z R4VR
10-13-2008, 11:52 AM
So you're calling Critical Thinking a derailed tl;dr forum? All opinions are not equal. Regardless of opinion, it must be DERIVED from fact. If you base it on thin air, your argument is worthless and your opinion means nothing. We're supposed to be entitled to our opinions, yet so few of us bother to substantiate them. And the fact that you're allowed to be a misinformed jackass doesn't make your opinion valid, nor does it make all opinions equally valid.
Allow me to laugh this one out a bit. Critical Thinking is a forum where reading comes hand in hand with making your point. CHIT CHAT IS FOR CHIT CHAT. Since you are so into defining things, chit chat is essentially "small talk".
When you are in public, do you like to *correct* people when having small talk?
"Hey, nice weather today! It's like 80 outside"
"NO ITS NOT NICE WEATHER BECAUSE I DEEM NICE WEATHER TO BE 82 DEGREES AND ITS NOT EXACTLY 82 DEGREES...blah blah blah barometer blah blah blah the sun blah blah blah your opinion is wrong blah blah."
Want to know what makes anyones opinion "valid"?: I THINK THEREFOR I AM.
You can't take away what people will accept, deny, challenge, think, nor believe. Sometimes, you need to embrace the fact that not everyone is enveloped in the rights and wrongs of what they are saying and are simply putting thoughts on paper (or threads) because they can, want to, and will without knowing a damn reason behind it.
Want to know my opinion on you? YOU FAIL
Let's close this thread please.
Silvuh
10-13-2008, 04:09 PM
When you are in public, do you like to *correct* people when having small talk?
Ooh, I do!
"Hey, nice weather today! It's like 80 outside!"This is not a baseless opinion. Say the person has come to an idea of what he finds to be nice weather through experiencing weather he finds unpleasant. "I prefer mild temperatures, because I don't like being too cold or two hot. I don't like full overcast, because dark days are too gloomy for me. I like a bit of wind, because it's cooler—but not so much that it blows my papers away. I don't like how dry weather flakes my skin, and I don't like muggy, wet weather, either. Today, the temperature is about 80 degrees, I can see the sun, it's not humid or dry, and I can feel some wind, so, yeah, it's a nice day out for me." is different from saying "The weather is nice today because I can't spread cold peanut butter."
"NO ITS NOT NICE WEATHER BECAUSE I DEEM NICE WEATHER TO BE 82 DEGREES AND ITS NOT EXACTLY 82 DEGREES...blah blah blah barometer blah blah blah the sun blah blah blah your opinion is wrong blah blah."This is not a reply to a baseless opinion or faulty reasoning, so it's not helping your argument.
Want to know what makes anyones opinion "valid"?I'll go to the dictionary for this one (i.e. dictionary.com). I'm pretty sure the definition in question is "1.sound; just; well-founded". If the facts and reasoning an opinion is based on aren't sound, just, and well-founded, then... Well, it's not that great of an opinion, is it?
I can see Russia from my house.
I THINK, THEREFORE I AM.I thought all this meant was "Because I can think, I exist." Not "Because I can think, my opinions are valid."
You can't take away what people will accept, deny, challenge, think, nor believe.This has been said before. It sounds like you're saying a person's beliefs can not be changed. Isn't a change in mind involved in things like maturing and converting?
Sometimes, you need to embrace the fact that not everyone is enveloped in the rights and wrongs of what they are saying and are simply putting thoughts on paper (or threads) because they can, want to, and will without knowing a damn reason behind it.This has also been said before. Sounds to me like you're saying that just because of the fact that people make baseless opinions, we shouldn't tell people not to make baseless opinions—or that our attempts are futile. Just because A happens, you can't stop anyone from doing A. Is that what you mean?
Let's close this thread please.If B is an argument against A, and all you can do is use A to argue against B... It's a circle.
"Everyone's opinion is valid."
"Opinions need to be derived from fact to be valid."
"No, everyone's opinion is valid! "
By not contributing any new, relevant, and valid arguments, one throws himself in to the circle. There's more to this thread than the circle you're in.
Maybe should get in to the differences between opinions, beliefs and arguments?
KA0Z R4VR
10-13-2008, 05:46 PM
Ooh, I do!
This is not a baseless opinion. Say the person has come to an idea of what he finds to be nice weather through experiencing weather he finds unpleasant. "I prefer mild temperatures, because I don't like being too cold or two hot. I don't like full overcast, because dark days are too gloomy for me. I like a bit of wind, because it's cooler—but not so much that it blows my papers away. I don't like how dry weather flakes my skin, and I don't like muggy, wet weather, either. Today, the temperature is about 80 degrees, I can see the sun, it's not humid or dry, and I can feel some wind, so, yeah, it's a nice day out for me." is different from saying "The weather is nice today because I can't spread cold peanut butter."
I wasn't trying to illustrate a "baseless" opinion. Only an opinion. And, like I said it's "chit chat" not "Let me tell you why I love the weather today as oppose to those muggy days we have every year. No, this day is different. This is the day I will tell you why I like the weather although you had no intentions on directing this conversation about last weeks forecast." You didn't prove much of a point assuming that my example was dealing with "baseless" opinion. Ass. u. me.
This is not a reply to a baseless opinion or faulty reasoning, so it's not helping your argument.
This is a reply to an opinion the person is choosing to have about the weather. Same as the rebuttal would be an opinion itself. STFU, you have horrible social skills when it comes to "chit chat"
I'll go to the dictionary for this one (i.e. dictionary.com). I'm pretty sure the definition in question is "1.sound; just; well-founded". If the facts and reasoning an opinion is based on aren't sound, just, and well-founded, then... Well, it's not that great of an opinion, is it?
I can see Russia from my house.
Well let's think about the term "valid opinion":
Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty
Valid : well grounded or justifiable, pertinent; acceptable, proper or correct, relevant
Well, according to this it's more or less a paradox.
Can you have both? Validity and opinion. Sure. Can they contradict? Of course.
I think one should only use the term "valid" when they are dealing with TRUE STATEMENTS where THE VALIDITY CAN BE PROVEN BECAUSE VALIDITY IS A QUALITY OF TRUTH, NOT OPINIONS WTF?!
Want to know what makes any opinion "valid" aside from the quality of truth. If you believe it's valid, then it is. As an opinion it can not be tested for fault or truth. If you believe in your statement, it is valid. But, I am using the term "valid" VERY LOOSELY when it comes down to opinion, because I know not many people are going to find MY opinion valid. It's only going to valid for me.
I thought all this meant was "Because I can think, I exist." Not "Because I can think, my opinions are valid."
There is one key emphasis you are missing.
I. One more time. I. Let's recap. I. Are you getting this? I. I AM. I exist, don't I? I think, do I not? If I cherish my opinion, is that not the same as saying "I cherish, therefor I am."
Point? You are individual who thinks and is still entitled to an opinion no matter how wrong or right others may think you or your reasoning are.
This has been said before. It sounds like you're saying a person's beliefs can not be changed. Isn't a change in mind involved in things like maturing and converting?
Where did you even come up with this idea? Are you reading? "you can't TAKE AWAY" not "you can never change". As long as the person wants to hold on to the idea whether it is belief or opinion, you can not take that away. It is up to the person to surrender their idea or belief. Can you influence this? Of course, anyone can. You have a twisted notion of arguing. Like I said. Assumptions. Ass. YOU. Me
This has also been said before. Sounds to me like you're saying that just because of the fact that people make baseless opinions, we shouldn't tell people not to make baseless opinions—or that our attempts are futile. Just because A happens, you can't stop anyone from doing A. Is that what you mean?
"Sounds to me" is an opinion that is completely out of context with what I am saying. You obviously didn't read what I posted, and if you did, you didn't grasp the higher level thinking concept required to EMBRACE the fact. Just because A happens doesn't mean we can't stop it. We just can't control it, within context. You are starting to annoy me.
If B is an argument against A, and all you can do is use A to argue against B... It's a circle.
"Everyone's opinion is valid."
"Opinions need to be derived from fact to be valid."
"No, everyone's opinion is valid! "
By not contributing any new, relevant, and valid arguments, one throws himself in to the circle. There's more to this thread than the circle you're in.
I am not here to learn about circular argumentative fallacies. The thing about this thread is that no new, relevant, and "valid" arguments exists. It's all opinion. And that's all it is going to be. This statement was as useless as your post.
Maybe should get in to the differences between opinions, beliefs and arguments?
I think that's what OrganisM and you were doing. I just got pissed off at seeing it each time someone put their 2 cents in. Truth is, no one cares about difference in opinion when it comes down to it. You don't care why I think you're wrong (or right), nor do I care if OrganisM is either. Let people have opinions without being bashed in by CT when they were in this for small talk to begin with.
Fenrirs Nova
10-13-2008, 05:47 PM
Hahaha. I can't believe this thread is still going. If people keep digressing from the topic, I think it's called spam. The topic is whether gay is "good" or "bad" and whether it was "right" or "wrong" for the mother to have done what she did. Any other argument besides those things just make the entire thread go on a tangent... Unfortunately, this has already occurred. Time to close this thread. Everyone should just calm down and say something constructive or not say anything at all.
Killing is wrong and nothing will change that. Under no circumstances is killing anyone just, according to the ten commandments of Christianity. But also according to the Bible of Christianity, it says that gay people should be stoned to death. The rules contradict each other. What a paradox. "What a twist!" -Robot Chicken. Hahaha. ;D
P.S. KA0Z R4VR,
OH MY GOODNESS! THANK YOU! (not being sarcastic) Geez'm crow. *sigh*
Alright, I'm done. Not saying anything anymore. ^^;
KA0Z R4VR
10-13-2008, 05:53 PM
^^
What he said please. Lol nice Robot Chicken quote too. Funny thing is I read it exactly how they portray in the scenes, before I read the Robot Chicken part lol
gnr61
10-13-2008, 05:55 PM
lol if there's an interesting discussion going on i see no reason to close a thread just because it's not still strictly tied to the first post.
i also like the argument for "you can't post a serious response here this is CHIT CHAT NIGA, CHIT CHAT"
reading this thread i laughed, cried, and decided i like silvuh a lot you write charmingly bro
KA0Z R4VR
10-13-2008, 05:58 PM
lol if there's an interesting discussion going on i see no reason to close a thread just because it's not still strictly tied to the first post.
i also like the argument for "you can't post a serious response here this is CHIT CHAT NIGA, CHIT CHAT"
reading this thread i laughed, cried, and decided i like silvuh a lot you write charmingly bro
It's not "you can't post a serious response", it became a case of "stop trying to find the logic behind everyone's ideas because alot of us just think without having a reason to"
OrganisM
10-13-2008, 06:41 PM
I don't care if it's chit chat or not, when there's a discussion to be had, opinions stated should always be derived from fact. That is not the same thing as saying that all opinions should be the same. I respect difference of opinion when both opinions are thought out. I won't forgive your tolerance of stupidity and your willingness to perpetuate ignorance and FUD. That's garbage.
You assume so much about me, do all the things you say I do, and then call me a hypocrite. This is an instance of the pot calling the sun black. I don't do the things you accuse me of, yet somehow you seem quite bound to them. But then again based on how much of an ass you make of yourself, I refuse to try and dissect every single aspect of your life and how you must behave in person.
Anybody who knows me in person (nobody here yet) knows me as a very reasonable, kind, and easy going person. Perhaps your impression of me is incorrect and you base way too much on pretenses. In case that one escaped you, I'm rightfully calling you pretentious. At least I don't take what I see and turn it into what it isn't.
That you're defending the right to be ignorant and stupid is really sad. I think everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I also think people should be held to a higher standard in which everyone knows something of what they are talking about, and aren't pretentious in arguing over something they have no clue of. And you attack this as unreasonable!
I can expect people to base their claims on fact, and I can expect a higher standard of the world, and so I shall! There is nothing wrong with that.
PS - your weather example is terrible. Your perception of weather is an arbitrary thing, and so the statement, "It's really warm outside" is different than "It is an abnormally hot day". In the former statement, you cannot be wrong, per se, even though my perception of the weather might be different. However, if you are stating as a matter of fact that the day is of an abnormal temperature, that can be argued. If the average temperature for that day is 80 degrees and it's 81 degrees outside, that is not a large enough variation in temperature to be called "abnormally warm".
Oh wait, looks like I injected too much of those nasty "fact" things into this. Sorry, let's go back to 1984.
WAR IS PEACE
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
I love big brother, don't you? Let's all show our love for big brother, under the banner of the Party. One glorious party. Wait, who are we at war with again? Was it Eastasia or Eurasia? I keep forgetting...
1. He got into the coma because he tried to kill himself.
2. His mom pulled the plug because he was gay.
3. HE WANTED TO KILL HIMSELF BUT FAILED, so his mom finished the job.
gnr61
10-13-2008, 06:46 PM
no one's trying to "find your logic" because its nonexistent.
it's merely been pointed (repeatedly) that you should not be posting unjustified, completely baseless opinions on an internet forum claiming "all opinions are equally valid." no one cares if you believe things that have no roots in science or logic; you should stop arguing them hiding behind the protection of "i can think whatever i want"
Silvuh
10-13-2008, 07:35 PM
I wasn't trying to illustrate a "baseless" opinion. Only an opinion.
I realize that now, thanks. But I thought OrganisM was talking about not responding well to baseless opinions, not just any ol' opinion. So that's why I assumed you were talking about baseless opinions, too.
And, like I said it's "chit chat" not "Let me tell you why I love the weather today as oppose to those muggy days we have every year. No, this day is different. This is the day I will tell you why I like the weather although you had no intentions on directing this conversation about last weeks forecast." You didn't prove much of a point assuming that my example was dealing with "baseless" opinion. Ass. u. me.Sorry, that was just my exaggerated way of explaining that what you said was not a baseless opinion. So we both agree it wasn't a baseless opinion, good.
This is a reply to an opinion the person is choosing to have about the weather. Same as the rebuttal would be an opinion itself. STFU, you have horrible social skills when it comes to "chit chat"Yes, I know it's a reply. But because you were quoting OrganisM, I thought that you said it as if it was a reply he would make. Another response born from the assumption above.
...
Oh wow. Wow.
Okay, I see, now. Your example was an argument about how correcting people in small talk is wrong. I was totally on the wrong page, wow. My bad. I was still on the "you shouldn't make baseless opinions" page.
Well, about this... Yeah, sure, screaming at someone for saying "The weather is nice" isn't nice. I can agree with that.
Wait, was this whole post of yours about correcting people during small talk? Well I had this realization after I typed out the rest of the content in this post... Well here's the rest of what I typed up, anyway, to avoid wasting at least an hour and a half on this.
Can you have both? Validity and opinion. Sure. Can they contradict? Of course.
I think one should only use the term "valid" when they are dealing with TRUE STATEMENTS where THE VALIDITY CAN BE PROVEN BECAUSE VALIDITY IS A QUALITY OF TRUTH, NOT OPINIONS WTF?!
Want to know what makes any opinion "valid" aside from the quality of truth. If you believe it's valid, then it is. As an opinion it can not be tested for fault or truth. If you believe in your statement, it is valid. But, I am using the term "valid" VERY LOOSELY when it comes down to opinion, because I know not many people are going to find MY opinion valid. It's only going to valid for me. Ah, right, so that's why you said "valid" in quotes when you talked about that. My bad. I wasn't using the term "valid" loosely as you are. Maybe we should just throw away "valid" altogether just because of how ... well, because of this confusion? Maybe just say "well-reasoned opinion" instead?
There is one key emphasis you are missing.
I. One more time. I. Let's recap. I. Are you getting this? I. I AM. I exist, don't I? I think, do I not? If I cherish my opinion, is that not the same as saying "I cherish, therefor I am."
Point? You are individual who thinks and is still entitled to an opinion no matter how wrong or right others may think you or your reasoning are.I. Yes, I read that. I think. I am. "I cherish my opinions, therefore I am." Sounds right to me. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. That's basic knowledge I came here with. But didn't you use the philosophy as reasoning to make anyone's opinion (I'm using quotes this time) "valid"? Oh wait, right, you're using "valid" very loosely. Sorry.
I do agree with what you're saying here. So, yeah, I'm confused.
So then what's the difference between how someone is entitled to their opinion and how their opinion is "valid"? I thought I knew the answer, but I guess I don't.
Where did you even come up with this idea? Are you reading? "you can't TAKE AWAY" not "you can never change". As long as the person wants to hold on to the idea whether it is belief or opinion, you can not take that away. It is up to the person to surrender their idea or belief. Can you influence this? Of course, anyone can. You have a twisted notion of arguing. Like I said. Assumptions. Ass. YOU. MeLet me look at the quote again, one sec...
Ooh, okay, I get it now. So you're saying that we can try to change someone's opinions, but it's up to them to actually change their opinion. That make sense. I came up with the idea because I thought "take away" was the same as "change", and now I know it's not.
I know the whole "When you make assumptions, you make an ass out of you and me" saying, but... It's hard not to make assumptions sometimes. When I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, I make an assumption and ask about it. What I thought was incorrect. Thank you for clearing that up for me.
"Sounds to me" is an opinion that is completely out of context with what I am saying. You obviously didn't read what I posted, and if you did, you didn't grasp the higher level thinking concept required to EMBRACE the fact. Just because A happens doesn't mean we can't stop it. We just can't control it, within context.I say "sounds to me" when I can't grasp the whole of what you're saying—when I state what I gather from your quote. Yes, you're right about that. So, again, thank you for helping me understand.
I am not here to learn about circular argumentative fallacies. The thing about this thread is that no new, relevant, and "valid" arguments exists. It's all opinion. And that's all it is going to be. This statement was as useless as your post.My apologies for that first thing there. That was condescending of me to say.
And, oh. It's all opinion, right. So why did I think there were supposed to be facts in here?
Also, no... my post wasn't useless. If I hadn't made that post, you wouldn't have responded, and I wouldn't have been able to grasp all of what you were saying. Thank you for responding to my post despite finding it useless.
I think that's what OrganisM and you were doing. I just got pissed off at seeing it each time someone put their 2 cents in. Truth is, no one cares about difference in opinion when it comes down to it. You don't care why I think you're wrong (or right), nor do I care if OrganisM is either. Let people have opinions without being bashed in by CT when they were in this for small talk to begin with.Well I just thought that it would be easier if opinions, beliefs, and arguments were all .. what's the word... something about being identified and kept separate... well, anyway. I thought it would help ease the confusion.
I'm not sure what to say about the rest of this here... I don't have a stance on the whole "CT in CC" issue, so I won't argue about it.
And I got quintuple-ninja'd (or is it only 'ninja'd' when the person who posts before you finish says the same thing?).
Uhm...
Hey.
P.S. Yeah, I had the same thought, EnR, but, you know, it's still sad he was driven to suicide in the first place.
Flaming_Dingleberry
10-17-2008, 01:53 PM
Can someone sum up what all these reeeeally long comments are about... they are just so ridiculously long, I would never dream of reading them.
I don't care if it's chit chat or not, when there's a discussion to be had, opinions stated should always be derived from fact. That is not the same thing as saying that all opinions should be the same. I respect difference of opinion when both opinions are thought out. I won't forgive your tolerance of stupidity and your willingness to perpetuate ignorance and FUD. That's garbage.
You assume so much about me, do all the things you say I do, and then call me a hypocrite. This is an instance of the pot calling the sun black. I don't do the things you accuse me of, yet somehow you seem quite bound to them. But then again based on how much of an ass you make of yourself, I refuse to try and dissect every single aspect of your life and how you must behave in person.
Anybody who knows me in person (nobody here yet) knows me as a very reasonable, kind, and easy going person. Perhaps your impression of me is incorrect and you base way too much on pretenses. In case that one escaped you, I'm rightfully calling you pretentious. At least I don't take what I see and turn it into what it isn't.
That you're defending the right to be ignorant and stupid is really sad. I think everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I also think people should be held to a higher standard in which everyone knows something of what they are talking about, and aren't pretentious in arguing over something they have no clue of. And you attack this as unreasonable!
I can expect people to base their claims on fact, and I can expect a higher standard of the world, and so I shall! There is nothing wrong with that.
PS - your weather example is terrible. Your perception of weather is an arbitrary thing, and so the statement, "It's really warm outside" is different than "It is an abnormally hot day". In the former statement, you cannot be wrong, per se, even though my perception of the weather might be different. However, if you are stating as a matter of fact that the day is of an abnormal temperature, that can be argued. If the average temperature for that day is 80 degrees and it's 81 degrees outside, that is not a large enough variation in temperature to be called "abnormally warm".
Oh wait, looks like I injected too much of those nasty "fact" things into this. Sorry, let's go back to 1984.
WAR IS PEACE
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
I love big brother, don't you? Let's all show our love for big brother, under the banner of the Party. One glorious party. Wait, who are we at war with again? Was it Eastasia or Eurasia? I keep forgetting...
It was both. That was a great book. It captured the complete idea of a Dystopia, sadly it has nothing to do with this thread.
When Ben says 'Sick' in the title of the thread, sick can refer to disgusting.
DrKirth
10-17-2008, 02:25 PM
Being a cold blooded killer makes you wicked sick
TD_boredom
10-17-2008, 02:32 PM
Alright that's pretty messed up. I've heard a lot of bullsh*t drama from people so now I can tell them this story to shut them up and make them think.
The Mother is the one that needs to go to hell...
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