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Old 08-21-2008, 03:52 AM   #121
rzr
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

I didn't think about specifics. Want to actually formulate this test right now?
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yeah my goldfish think im a riot they do this thing where they turn upside down and float to the top of the tank

i guess their alcohol tolerance isnt as high as mine
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Old 08-21-2008, 03:53 AM   #122
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

You couldn't actually make a test like that, too many variables.

Different types of alcohol, how many times the alcohol has been filtered (quality)

Method it was made...

Amount of time before someone reacts, soft or hard liquor...etc etc.
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Old 08-21-2008, 03:54 AM   #123
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Thumbs up Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

The biggest problem I see is that we attach too much importance to chronological age, and use it as a measure of intelligence, self-reliance, responsibility, and an understanding of the world around us. True, there's no easy way to replace that measure, but that doesn't make it any better. The same old example pops up: I'm 19 and have a high degree of responsibility. I've been treated as an adult and have accepted the responsibilities of an adult since a young age, and I come from a culture where drinking has nothing to do with age and must be understood before one becomes an adult. In many places in Europe, if you're with family, as long as you're not a very young child, no questions are asked, and an understanding and acceptance of alcohol is promoted rather than a view that alcohol is something to be forbidden, something dangerous and to be restricted. How many retards go out on the 21st year of their life and drive drunk because they have no self control? There are people who are 30 and have half the self control I do. But then again, it's all about chronological age, not biological age or actual maturity or mentality.

In response to devonin, I only partially agree. The main problem with parenting I see is the approach. Frankly, most of the people who have kids... aren't fit to raise them. I hate to sound overly judgmental and as if I have a superiority complex, but how many of these idiots that can't control themselves end up having kids? I don't know how you can expect the degenerates to raise anything but stupid and out of control kids. I can speak on and on to the problems that somehow the US seems to have more than anybody else in terms of the diseased culture full of double-standards, but there's nothing better to say than this: these are all symptoms of a cingularproblem, and there's no way to fix anything without fixing the broken system we have in place trying to run this mess of a country.

But I digress, as one in this ADD culture (and afflicted with ADD) often does. What I mean to say is that I think it's how people are brought up. In Europe, once again, you are practically an adult at age 14 or 15. You may still live with your family, and it is often tradition depending on what part you're from to have your parents in the house long after the house is your own and you have children of your own. When you have such a rich family structure with support and understanding, the child will have a better chance of turning out well. Note that it's no guarantee, but you're certainly not harming anything by knowing to keep a distance from the fire when you're coated in kerosene. So in a few short words, I don't think it's simply overparenting (though that's part of it) I also think it's lack of any family structure and disassociation with absolutely everything that makes the little idiots want to rebel.

I'm underage, and I drink. I have been drinking quite regularly since age 14, and I've had a drink from time to time since I was a child. You don't see me going out and driving drunk, or being heavily irresponsible to the point of destroying everything within a mile of me. I can't say the same for some air-brained idiot with parents who feel they can keep one who is no longer a child on a leash.

Like I said, this is just one symptom of the overriding problem that this system just doesn't work. Chronological age is a broken system of measurement, and in this dump pile the young adults have a sense of disassociation what with no family around them, and their single moms and drunken or ignorant parents know no better than the kids.

By the way, speaking of responsibility, I feel it's my duty to mention that as I'm typing this I'm naked and drinking both absinthe and wine. It's been a hectic night, best you not ask.
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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird[link]:
"If you get stung by enough bees you turn into a bee,
because the venom gets into the blood stream which
spreads bee DNA throughout your entire body...
changing your genetic structure into a bee's.

Every year roughly 125 people in America are turned into bees this way."


Originally Posted by
MrRubix[link]:
"Do you basically bukkake-paint your walls every time you jack it?"

Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz[link]:
"My pity-sex depreciates at a rate of 5% annually."
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Old 08-21-2008, 03:57 AM   #124
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

The only tests I can think of that don't involve alcohol are personality-based. You fill out a questionaire about how you'd react in a few situations. And based on that, they grant you access (or not) to alcohol.

But, see, this test falls to the problems I stated earlier. Who decides how to test for a responsible personality? I have a feeling that it would somehow turn out racist and/or irrelevant. Besides that, a person who's really dedicated could fake the answers. Because you can't really do things like test their coordination or sight. Blind people can drink alcohol. Clumsy people can drink alcohol (but make sure, like anyone else, that they don't drive).

It just doesn't make sense for alcohol. At all. You can't formulate a test for maturity level, which is what you're trying to analyse for fitness for alcohol consumption. For driving you are testing coordination, sight, reaction time, and memorization of rules. Nothing like that applies to drinking.
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:01 AM   #125
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

A driving test is broken down into written and driving. Therefore, a drinkers test would be broken down into written and drinking.
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i had a mri the other day it was the best song i heard in years

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yeah my goldfish think im a riot they do this thing where they turn upside down and float to the top of the tank

i guess their alcohol tolerance isnt as high as mine
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:02 AM   #126
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

But neither of those tests will measure anything relevant to fitness for drinking.
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:04 AM   #127
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

Sorry to burst your bubble, Chrissi, but driver's tests hardly have anything to do with any of those things. They have mostly to do with the fact that most of the people who administer the tests have fallen so far in their lives that they have nothing more they can contribute to society but to torture those who come under their jurisdiction. Passing or failing often times has a lot to do with ethnicity, with how much the one administering the test likes the testee, or whether the applicant is male or female. There is much prejudice, and quite a bit of the test is actually left entirely up to the tester's judgement. Things like slowing down fast enough, yielding, etc. are completely left up to interpretation. And if you don't think that tests are heavily, heavily biased like almost nothing else, boy do I have stories to share. Including several where somebody on a test came within inches of a three car accident (their fault) and passed anyways.
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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird[link]:
"If you get stung by enough bees you turn into a bee,
because the venom gets into the blood stream which
spreads bee DNA throughout your entire body...
changing your genetic structure into a bee's.

Every year roughly 125 people in America are turned into bees this way."


Originally Posted by
MrRubix[link]:
"Do you basically bukkake-paint your walls every time you jack it?"

Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz[link]:
"My pity-sex depreciates at a rate of 5% annually."
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:06 AM   #128
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

I should have clarified. I never meant that in practical application, the drivers' tests meet all these standards. Just that they exist, and that's what the drivers' test is for - to test skills required to drive. Whether it does so effectively or not is a matter of application and social situation.

You don't require "skills" to drink. At most there is a "maturity level" which is not something that's measurable.
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:06 AM   #129
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissi View Post
But neither of those tests will measure anything relevant to fitness for drinking.
Prove it.
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Everyone sucks at this game. The second you think you're good is the second you stop trying to get better.
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i had a mri the other day it was the best song i heard in years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite-
More of a joke than the time I deleted all the credits on the site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinaciousGrace View Post
yeah my goldfish think im a riot they do this thing where they turn upside down and float to the top of the tank

i guess their alcohol tolerance isnt as high as mine
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:08 AM   #130
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissi View Post
I should have clarified. I never meant that in practical application, the drivers' tests meet all these standards. Just that they exist, and that's what the drivers' test is for - to test skills required to drive. Whether it does so effectively or not is a matter of application and social situation.

You don't require "skills" to drink. At most there is a "maturity level" which is not something that's measurable.
Maybe not "skill", but one's ability to hold their alcohol and their level of physical and mental control could factor in.

Why are you even debating about this?! You've both agreed that it's completely impractical.

EDIT: or not.
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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird[link]:
"If you get stung by enough bees you turn into a bee,
because the venom gets into the blood stream which
spreads bee DNA throughout your entire body...
changing your genetic structure into a bee's.

Every year roughly 125 people in America are turned into bees this way."


Originally Posted by
MrRubix[link]:
"Do you basically bukkake-paint your walls every time you jack it?"

Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz[link]:
"My pity-sex depreciates at a rate of 5% annually."
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:11 AM   #131
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganisM View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble, Chrissi, but driver's tests hardly have anything to do with any of those things. They have mostly to do with the fact that most of the people who administer the tests have fallen so far in their lives that they have nothing more they can contribute to society but to torture those who come under their jurisdiction. Passing or failing often times has a lot to do with ethnicity, with how much the one administering the test likes the testee, or whether the applicant is male or female. There is much prejudice, and quite a bit of the test is actually left entirely up to the tester's judgement. Things like slowing down fast enough, yielding, etc. are completely left up to interpretation. And if you don't think that tests are heavily, heavily biased like almost nothing else, boy do I have stories to share. Including several where somebody on a test came within inches of a three car accident (their fault) and passed anyways.
I remember a kid in my class taking a drivers test failed because she didn't "double stop" (state law in MA is a double stop at a stop sign) at a stop sign even though there were clearly no cars.

And another kid ran three red lights and didn't fail until he nearly ran someone over and that was with the same instructor.
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:15 AM   #132
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

It's not that 18 year olds don't posses the ability to handle alcohol as well as a 21 year old, but can you imagine the kind of pandemonium that would ensue after a law like this is repealed?

I do believe that in the short term (probably for a generation of young people), this would have a vastly negative effect on the country as 18-20 year olds get comfortable with alcohol. We'd definitely see an increase in fatal accidents due to alcohol. Also consider the ripple effect that it will inevitably have on teenagers in general as their older siblings and high school buddies can now buy alcohol.

Last edited by foilman8805; 08-21-2008 at 04:18 AM..
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:19 AM   #133
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

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Originally Posted by rzr View Post
Prove it.
I don't think I can. All I can say is that they haven't even come up with a proper IQ test yet. I can also cite my minor-yet-relevant qualifications - I'm studying psychology in university, and seriously, an accurate, unbiased "maturity" test is hard to come up with. The original IQ test was meant to do this - it was for children who were having trouble with learning and development. The IQ was measured by putting children through some tasks and asking them some oral questions. It had to be administered by well-trained people or psychologists, or it was succeptible to bias and other problems.

However, this IQ test, which was only ever meant to evaluate children who were struggling as compared to their peers in order to give them an education tailored to their level of understanding, became adapted by the US government to try to keep "stupid people" out of the country. Since immigrants often didn't understand english very well and the tests were administered orally, often they failed simply because they couldn't understand the questions. As well, lots of people were outright racist, and figured all people of a non-european descent were just naturally inferior and stupid, and didn't even give them a chance. It became used as a means of discrimination, and made racists feel justified in viewing immigrants as inferior to the existing european-descent population.

This was over 50 years ago, I think. And they haven't really made many improvements. There are standardized tests for just about everything, but I wouldn't call any of them adequate to analyse a person's maturity level as it directly relates to the consumption of alcohol. And there is a LOT of time and energy and money spent analysing and recreating and testing the tests themselves to make sure they are fair, unbiased, not racist, not sexist, not ageist, not classist, or any other -ist you can think of. And then on top of that, they still have to be accurate.

I didn't do any research for this response so it may seem a little vague but if you google history of the IQ test you may find something on wikipedia. This is all just... the stuff I learn.

So I can't prove it but I can tell you about things that back me up.
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:20 AM   #134
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rzr View Post
Prove it.
One's ability to consume alcohol has nothing to do with one's fitness to consume alcohol any more than one's ability to accurately fire a gun measures their fitness to carry firearms.
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:21 AM   #135
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

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this would have a vastly negative effect on the country as 18-20 year olds get comfortable with alcohol.
I don't see where the logic is. I am in that age range and have already been comfortable with alcohol for most of my life. This law won't change that. And I certainly don't notice any negative effect on the rest of the world. This is the only country in the world with an age minimum of 21. Virtually everywhere else is 18+. Note that I see the most alcohol problems in this country than anywhere else, along with drugs, violence, and everything else you can imagine. I drank alcohol in Ireland a week ago. I don't see the world falling down, nor did I see people my age who live there start firing guns in the streets.
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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird[link]:
"If you get stung by enough bees you turn into a bee,
because the venom gets into the blood stream which
spreads bee DNA throughout your entire body...
changing your genetic structure into a bee's.

Every year roughly 125 people in America are turned into bees this way."


Originally Posted by
MrRubix[link]:
"Do you basically bukkake-paint your walls every time you jack it?"

Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz[link]:
"My pity-sex depreciates at a rate of 5% annually."
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:22 AM   #136
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

No, certainly it wouldn't change anything for you, Mr. Responsible, but there are not nearly as many people as blessed as you with those kinds of mental faculties.

And the point is that in Ireland, it's been 18+ for a long time. I'm talking about if this law is suddenly repealed in AMERICA.
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:24 AM   #137
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

Like I said, Canada's doing alright.
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:26 AM   #138
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

That sounds like a thinly veiled insult, but I'll take the high road and assume you mean it literally. /sarcasm

I don't see where you draw your conclusions that accidents would automatically increase with the age minimum being lowered, nor do I see you refuting my angle of the argument that perhaps exposure and acceptance could reduce abuse rather than encourage it. Not simply by virtue of lowering age minimum, mind you. Read my post, or at least part of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foilman8805 View Post
And the point is that in Ireland, it's been 18+ for a long time. I'm talking about if this law is suddenly repealed in AMERICA.
Once again, where's your conclusion that mass riots will ensure drawn from? And please, don't call it AMERICA, it sounds obnoxious and it's part of why the rest of the world rightfully wants to burn us out of existence.
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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird[link]:
"If you get stung by enough bees you turn into a bee,
because the venom gets into the blood stream which
spreads bee DNA throughout your entire body...
changing your genetic structure into a bee's.

Every year roughly 125 people in America are turned into bees this way."


Originally Posted by
MrRubix[link]:
"Do you basically bukkake-paint your walls every time you jack it?"

Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz[link]:
"My pity-sex depreciates at a rate of 5% annually."

Last edited by OrganisM; 08-21-2008 at 04:28 AM..
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:27 AM   #139
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

We need some sort of thing like...

RTFP

Read That Fine Post
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:30 AM   #140
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Default Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

or

Read The Fcuking Post Or Do The World A Favor And Shove Your Face Into A Woodchipper.
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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird[link]:
"If you get stung by enough bees you turn into a bee,
because the venom gets into the blood stream which
spreads bee DNA throughout your entire body...
changing your genetic structure into a bee's.

Every year roughly 125 people in America are turned into bees this way."


Originally Posted by
MrRubix[link]:
"Do you basically bukkake-paint your walls every time you jack it?"

Originally Posted by All_That_Chaz[link]:
"My pity-sex depreciates at a rate of 5% annually."
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