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#21 |
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Which is what time is, essentially. I think you're missing a point here. Time is the name we denote to the phenomenon of change. It is something that can be measured and quantified, and also manipulated.
Imagine for a second if we removed time. What would happen? Everything would happen at once. Everything. Evidently the physical constraints at the beginning of the universe (i.e. the big bang) did not or could not allow this, and attributed some measurable space-time quantity to all objects. Without time, there is no separation of cause and effect and the universe would be incredibly chaotic.
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#22 |
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Actually, I think nothing would happen at all, as in if there was no time, there would be no space. Time and space are coexistent. One cannot exist without the other. If we hypothetically remove time, we would also remove space.
Another interesting idea: Just like the fundamental forces (electromagnetic, weak, strong, gravity) are all variations of the same force, and matter and energy are variations of the same substance, what if time and space are variations of the same vector quantity? Of course, the origin of this superforce, supersubstance and supervector is impossible to experimentally discover without observing the big bang. (No, Large Hadron Collider will definitely not recreate the big bang. Definitely not enough energy (or rather, something more exotic. It's not energy that started the universe), so that's just a rumor.)
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#23 | |
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FFR Simfile Author
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Quote:
![]() I was being hypothetical to show Izzy that consequently there must be time in the universe and it does exist (or you otherwise run into problems explaining how we're here in the first place, as you just pointed out.)
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#24 | |
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Frau Bow
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas
Age: 30
Posts: 9,200
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Quote:
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#25 |
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This is a custom title.
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Time isn't a vector, it's a component of a vector.
And of course the idea of time wouldn't exist if we didn't make it up. Edit: Why do you think time just a concept?
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#26 | |
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FFR Simfile Author
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Quote:
You can't remove gravity either, and it is not a 'thing that can be manipulated as an actual thing', yet I would challenge you to tell me that gravity does not exist and is just a concept.
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#27 | |
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FFR Player
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Quote:
Bluguerilla, time is definitely a vector quantity. It has the properties of acceleration as shown by Einstein's theory of relativity. Calculus shows that anything with an acceleration has an integral, which is a velocity (both vector quantities).
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#28 |
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Frau Bow
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas
Age: 30
Posts: 9,200
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Why do you think time isn't just a concept. We might be trying to think about two different things here. I am not sure anymore. The first post sums up what i am talking about pretty easily.
Edit: Also you can manipulate gravity with mass.
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#29 |
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FFR Player
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You can manipulate time with space. It is experimentally proven that a clock in motion (considerable motion, as in as close to the speed of light as possible) ticks slower than a clock standing still.
If you think time is a concept, then you should be thinking that space is also just a concept. Correct? If so, then I wouldn't have anything against it, because it is impossible to prove that human perception is justifiable as the truth. (In which concept is defined as an illusional theory with no sound foundation.
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#30 |
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Frau Bow
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas
Age: 30
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Yes i know you can manipulate what we perceive as time by a difference in whats changing because of the speed. A clock isn't some godly object that is the definition of time. A clock works by things moving. Has nothing to do with time.
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#31 | |
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This is a custom title.
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Quote:
Time does not have the property of acceleration or velocity as those are both derivatives with respect to time. The space-time vector is r = (x,y,z,t), t being time, and that's as far as I'm going into this as this discussion isn't so much about physics and geometry as it is about philosophy (sic). Edit: Izzy, could you elaborate on your viewpoint a little?
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Last edited by bluguerrilla; 06-9-2008 at 06:03 PM.. |
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#32 | ||
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FFR Player
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Quote:
Quote:
To Izzy: Actually, the theory concerning seconds per meter is completely my original ideology.
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#33 |
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This is a custom title.
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So what direction is time pointed in?
Also, are you saying that t := f(n) where n = dt/dx?
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Last edited by bluguerrilla; 06-9-2008 at 06:12 PM.. |
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#34 |
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FFR Player
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The direction we're headed in now. Like all torque and force vector problems, we arbitrarily assign it a charge. In this case, I would probably call it positive. Direction is an arbitrary term. Nothing truly is positive or negative. We just use those terms to differentiate between directions. An electron could be termed positive, as long as a proton is termed negative. Left could be termed right as long as right is termed left. Etc.
Time (seconds) is a scalar. Time (seconds per meter) is a vector. Time (seconds per meters squared) is a vector. Time (s/m) is f(x), time (s/m^2) would be the derivative of f(x). I will leave this thread now. My mom wants to play SWR. =)
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#35 |
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Frau Bow
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas
Age: 30
Posts: 9,200
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http://www.robsworld.org/notime.html
It appears that I'm not the only one who has come to similar conclusions. Although i haven't read this entire page i think it is about what i am saying. It's not something that contradicts anything anyone has said in this thread. It's just another way of looking at it.
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#36 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Age: 28
Posts: 41
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time is really nothing more than man's observations on things we have no reference for and will never comepletly understand. we can make up all sorts of theroies, but there are things we will never understand no matter how hard we try but instead of accepting that we make up a bunch of crap that makes sense at the time but in the ennd are just guesses and needed to be treated as such.
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#37 |
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coLSBMidday, zerg sc2 pro
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Time and motion work together. If there is no time, then there is no motion. Also, isn't time non-existent? Something that humans simply made up?
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#38 |
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Very Grave Indeed
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I mentioned pretty extensively before, my opinion that time exists objectively outside the bounds of humanity's invention. What humans made up is the particular scale and duration of the measurements we apply to time.
It would exist and function whether we had created the concept of seconds, minutes, hours, years etc. But the labels are of our own devising. |
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#39 |
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FFR Player
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Agreed with devonin. As I asked before, how come time is treated so differently from space? If time is such an "inexistent entity", how come space isn't treated likewise?
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#40 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Age: 28
Posts: 41
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time and space may not be alike at all just because it looks tghat way from how we percieve it does that mean that maybe we can't be wrong?
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