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#1 |
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FFR Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cary, NC
Age: 26
Posts: 695
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Before I start typing this thread...
Anything that I type in this post does not reflect my views in any of the presidential candidates in the coming election. To speak the truth, I really don't have a view of any of the presidents. The subject came up in my lunch shift at my table about the presidential election. Of course, with that, a couple of my friends were like "I HOPE HILLARY CLINTON DOESN'T BECOME PRESIDENT I WOULD JUST DIE". I asked them why, and my friends had to think for a bit. One of them came up with the answer "Well... She has dagger eyes and she tries to avoid any and all questions asked to her and she always puts on a fake smile." I told him those weren't real reasons, and he just said 'whatever.' Also, I can get my friends started on a real reason, but they always refer to something they heard someone else say. Such as what my friend said: "Hillary isn't going to do any of the things she said." ("How do you know that?") "Well, she's just evil like that!" I just wonder why so many people (at my school, anyways) have such a strong hatred toward Hillary. There are a few reasons why I think that seventh graders in my school hate Hillary Clinton, or any other presidents for that matter. --They are: 1. They hear their parents talking about them. 2. They go by what they see on TV, and I'm sure they only saw bits and pieces of political matters on TV, and only listened to small parts of those bits. 3. They go by what they hear from everyone else. I actually hate it when my friends bring up politics in a conversation. I always want to tell them: "Hey, there is a lot at stake in this election. Maybe Barack will end up making foolish decisions in office? Who knows? Maybe Hillary is the right choice? Just because you hear about a certain candidate's popularity, that doesn't mean you go with everyone else. When you are old enough to vote, you need to vote responsibly. You should actually watch the debates, not just the talk shows following the debates." I'm not saying that Hillary is the right choice, or Barack will make foolish decisions, I'm just talking hypothetically. Today in my Academic Stretch class, we were watching the Student News by, I think, CNN. They started talking about one of the recent primaries in one of the states, and included footage of Obama's and Hillary's speeches. As soon as the clip played Hillary's speech, and you could hear her voice, I heard my friend Keegan go "pshhhh. Hehe..." I told him after class, "Keegan, you know how childish that is. If you don't like her, fine, but you should at least respect the people running for president. If you ran for president, I bet you wouldn't make it anywhere" (previous quote based on what I know about Keegan since I met him). That brings me to my second point. The really biased people completely disrespect the candidates and support the candidate they like based on what they looked like when they first saw them. My other friend seriously thought that USA would plummet into hell and people would die if Hillary Clinton became president. Please, voice your opinion about the different candidates. As you might have read or remembered from above, I don't have a true view or side in this election. But please, use real, political reasons to support your view. No using 'dagger eyes' or 'black' as reasons. Or any of that sort. (the latter example could get you banned!). Also, you can critisize other people's ideas, but make sure you have good reasons! |
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#2 |
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Resident One-Hander
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Hmm....I used to feel the same way about Hillary myself back then. But I do not now. I hate her for my own reasons, mostly her disgraceful campaign and the way she has berated and attacked Obama. But I learned to look into her accomplishments and wrongdoings. And THAT is why I have a valid opinion. But many don't, and thus they do not have a valid opinion that truly reflects their feelings. I will elaborate.
Kids are impressionable. Adults are dominating adult figures in their lives, and they unconsciously impose their beliefs on their children because they are the dominating figure. Since Hillary's popularity has plummeted, many more adults take a disliking to her demeanor and persona. Therefore, more children are exposed to dislike of her, and they pick that up because they see a twisted, biased point of view that enumerates the negative facets of an individual. Kids therefore have an incomplete point of view unfairly tilted towards one person and against another. In this effect, they end up seeing neutral aspects of a person as negative, such as appearance. I terribly dislike Clinton; I could talk for hours on all the reasons I hate her. But I do not connect that to inconsequential things such as appearance, but others do. So therefore, it gives the other kids a false reason to dislike said person. In knowing this, you need to realize that the kids do not know the truth. They dislike Hillary, and whether it is a conscious decision or influenced by external factors is not of consequence. But they see things such as her "dagger" eyes a reason not to like her. Since they are so deeply sunk in their own opinions, they fail to see all the real reasons to dislike her. They don't care if it's unfair, they just don't want her to be president. Yes, it's wrong. But since they think they are right, they will continue to believe that she is ugly and unelectable. Now granted, appearance does have a subconscious psychological effect on humans that can cause them to take a disliking to a person without them knowing it. But I do not see her as ugly or creepy looking. What these kids need to realize is that looks have nothing to do with a person's ability to lead and serve their country with honor and dignity. But if they cannot see below the surface, then their opinion is not valid. Unfortunately, since many students of their early to middle teenage years tend to look on the outside, they will not care if she has redeemable qualities worthy of veneration and praise. They will see a creepy, scheming old hag who looks like she needs a serious makeover. When they learn to look on the inside, they may find out that they actually like her, and see that, to them, she is a worthy presidential candidate. Yes, looking at the way they do is puerile and wrong. But there is nothing you can do until they look within, not without. After all. Is a person who is absolutely gorgeous yet feeds off of society, makes a huge paycheck and takes from the poor a better individual than say, a physically deformed person who leads a country out of war, repairs a shattered economy, and raises the quality of life? My point is made. It's not fair, but they judge her unfairly because they refuse to look at a person's qualities and accomplishments, but instead their appearance. They also have an incomplete view of said person. Ask them to research each candidate fully and thoroughly. You might be surprised at the reaction that you will get. ~Bynary Fission P.S In case you want my opinion of Hillary, I dislike her because she has used the lowest tactics in the book to destroy Obama's reputation. The attempt at using the photo of him in Kenya is disgusting. Using it against him to show that he is a Muslim is discriminatory, low, and possibly even racist considering where it came from. Also, the continuous attack ads and distortion of Obama's image is wrong, such as him being a closet Muslim. He is a Christian, that has already been proved. But in saying he was a Muslim, she also tried to put the beliefs in people that he was un-American for his religious beliefs. And finally, this. If Hillary supposedly has so much more experience and ability to lead than Obama, then why does she have to attack and smear him with any tactic she can come up with in a desperate attempt to make him lose the presidential nomination? I doubt she's qualified at all if she is so terrified of somebody who supposedly has less experience and credentials. Plus, he would not be so popular if he was as lacking as she claims he is. Last edited by Bynary Fission; 03-11-2008 at 06:37 PM.. |
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#3 |
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smoke wheat hail satin
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LA baby
Age: 32
Posts: 5,703
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Perhaps you should re-title this thread to something more suitable since you only mentioned Democratic candidates for President (i.e. no Republicans), and never talked actually ABOUT Presidents. The thread title was kind of misleading.
Anyways, it's hard to formulate accurate opinions about candidates because bias is just naturally built into political institutions. You can't really escape from it. In elections like this upcoming one, where an incumbent party has been in office for 8 years, there are usually enormous gripes about the current administration, and the opponent utilizes the public opinion at this time to run a campaign on "CHANGE". This is foolish. Promising things like nationalized healthcare in a capitalist economy will never happen. Ever. Not only would it never happen on an economic basis, but the natural barriers in Congress (i.e. supermajoritarian rule) would probably never allow something like this to succeed with out massive amendments and pork barrel spending. I mean really, if could've already been done, don't you think it would have? Why wait until 2008 to do this when it could been done in 1978? But people hear that, minds melt, and they become CHANGE zombies. They literally become hypnotized by these empty promises. Another issue: The war. Democratic candidates (Obama and Clinton both) promise a swift and immediate withdrawal of our troops in Iraq. I'd literally be shocked and awed if this could happen. You cannot just pull out of a country that you dismantled a few years ago and expect it to flourish, both Clinton and Obama are aware of this, but why not sway tens of millions of voters with a few meaningless words? That I cannot argue with. Politics is a filthy game, especially American politics. There's a whole slew of other political ideologies and concepts I don't agree with, but I will not discuss because I think I've conveyed that I dislike both candidates. Look up their voting records (yes, this is public info). They're nearly identical, which is why I will vote for neither of them. Of course, I'm biased because I'm a registered Republican. So, the vicious cycle of bias continues. Wait until the November elections. I expect something very interesting to happen. Last edited by foilman8805; 03-11-2008 at 07:39 PM.. |
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#4 | |
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FFR Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cary, NC
Age: 26
Posts: 695
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Quote:
Bynary Fission: Thank you for taking the time to voice your opinion. Your opinion is valued. I see what you mean by the incomplete truth they are hearing. The reason I do not have an opinion of any of the candidates is because I know when I hear something, it is not the complete truth. I connected, right away, what you were saying to my friend Keegan. He just needs to look at the whole picture of Hillary, and maybe he will like her. And if he doesn't, then oh well, as long as his opinion is valid, like you explained. Another problem about Keegan is that he spreads the hate like a disease. He tells everyone about his hatred, and finally "infects" all of my friends into "Hillary-haters". Foilman: I'll see what I can do for the title. Did you mean "Biased Opinions about Candidates" or "Biased Opinions about Democrats"? Clarify that for me. You're absolutely right. Presidents do not always tell the whole truth. That makes it even more difficult for people to form wholesome opinions of induvidual candidates. I think if kids want to have a valid opinion, they need to do two things. 1. Thoroughly research each candidate (campaigns, goals, tactics against others) 2. Form valid opinions based on inner qualities. I guess being biased is pretty natural in the political world. Like you, people do register for parties. I can't say too much on this subject, I'm just using what I know and I'm using my common sense (Being 13, I don't have a whole lot of knowledge yet in the political area). I haven't researched any of the presidential candidates myself, which is why I don't have any opinions yet. |
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#5 |
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smoke wheat hail satin
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LA baby
Age: 32
Posts: 5,703
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You are a very wise 13 year old.
Also, about the title...you hit it well with just changing Presidents to Candidates. You could even merge the two: Biased Opinions About Presidential Candidates. Not really a big deal though. As an addition, I just find that almost all campaigns are about who can make the most bogus promises and sucker in the most voters. They are usually the ones that get the most attention in the media too, which is very frustrating. Last edited by foilman8805; 03-11-2008 at 08:29 PM.. |
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#6 |
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Resident One-Hander
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Well, there is almost no such thing as an honest politician. Period. And besides, they have to lie and make false promises in order to get elected....so they can do the opposite. Considering many do not care about any but themselves and others like them, they'll do just about anything to stay in their position of power. For those who abuse power when given it are weak....because they have no other way to assert themselves. Indeed, an honest politician is few and far between. The only way to find them, as I and you previously stated, is to look within. All politicians look the same on the outside, but not all are the same way within.
~Bynary Fission |
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#7 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 346
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Influence is a disease, no matter what aspect its portrayed from.
Self explanatory. |
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#8 |
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FFR Player
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The title seems appropriate. I mean come on..there were 10 democrats and 10 republicans and who's left in the presidential race? Two democrats -- Hillary and Barack.
Both are great candidates to lead this country from engulfing itself from what Bush has done to this country. I believe many of you will agree with me. Saying that, these are my views -- I support the death penalty. I mean you're not supposed to play God but what happens when there are certain circumstances leading to the death penalty being appropriate? Heinous crimes, terrorism, and harming CHILDREN most importantly are all examples of these certain "circumstances" where death penalty should be enforced. Barack's View: supports the death penalty. Hillary's View: supports the death penalty. I strongly support a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. This is a no brainer. For all of you "Americans" who think otherwise, did you know that you're not really American unless you're Native American. You gotta be OG! This is the MOST diverse country on this planet so why shouldn't we allow a x amount step process in order to become a legal citizen? Conditions for them working crappy jobs will improve and so will the economy. Barack's View: strongly supports the path to citizenship. Hillary's View: strongly supports the path to citizenship. I strongly support an increase in taxes for the wealthiest Americans. I don't know what you guys are smoking but what gives the government the right to flat tax all classes of living? Why in the hell did G.W. Bush cut taxes for the wealthy? Is he extremely stupid? The wealthy comprise of maybe 10% of this country MAXIMUM so he will see A LOT of opposition here. There should be a range and different tax levels for different class levels with the lowest class paying the least amount of taxes while the wealthiest paying the most. I know there's potential for abuse but it's the RIGHT step and direction to head in to becoming a PROGRESSIVE country which we have not been doing. Barack's View: strongly supports the tax increase for the wealthy. Hillary's View: strongly supports the tax increase for the wealthy. I strongly support setting a withdrawal timetable for US troops to leave Iraq. We've been putting our noses in Iraq's business for FIVE years! Our original, if you want to call it, "objective" was to disarm WMD (weapons of mass destruction) but I really believe our gov't had alterior motives. I believe our main objective was for the US to have access to oil in Iraq as well as establishing dominance in the Middle East. Okay? That's it? Trade-off? 1.2 MILLION Iraqi's may they be innocent or guilty, 4,000 US soldiers killed, 40,000 US soldiers injured (losing limbs, eyes, people whose lives are ruined for LIFE). THIS ALL CONSTITUTES AT LEAST A WITHDRAWAL timetable for US troops to leave Iraq. THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT. Barack's View: strongly supports the withdrawal timetable for US troops to leave Iraq. Hillary's View: supports the tax increase for the wealthy. (she believes in actually taking longer to withdraw due to Iraq being vulnerable during withdrawal which I disagree on. They should handle their own business.) You know what..I could keep going on and on but I've voted for Barack. Sure Hillary has experience in the white house BUT knowing that she's bringing Bill back into the white house is just prolonging his presidency for a THIRD term! You know she's going to piggyback off of Bill's experience! I just do not personally trust Hillary. Obama 08.
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#9 | ||
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smoke wheat hail satin
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LA baby
Age: 32
Posts: 5,703
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Quote:
The only thing your post did was prove what I said earlier (Clinton and Obama's ideologies are literally the same, so voting for one is like voting for the other), and fail to prove why you should vote Hillary over Obama, and vice versa. Your sole reason for voting for Obama? Wait, now why was this? You know her on enough of an intimate level to make this decision? I highly doubt it. Sounds like bias to me. This is more of a tangent: Quote:
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government. (http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/...lation/ILA.htm) So, the origination of the Iraq problem lies elsewhere and with more than just one person. You need to start forming your own opinions and doing research before you make bold statements like that. Last edited by foilman8805; 03-13-2008 at 05:14 AM.. |
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#10 |
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FFR Player
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i am somewhat biased
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#11 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Texas
Age: 31
Posts: 10
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I really despise people who go around flaunting their political knowledge and such, when all they go on is just what their parents say or what they hear in movies. Movies, especially, bother me. Granted, I come from a very strict Republican family, but my views are not as aligned with my parents as they would have been if I had chosen to believe everything they say -- but again, we should always question where our information comes from, right? I want to say, straight-forwardly that I do feel I am probably more Moderate than anything when it comes to politics.
My main problem with biased people and presidents comes from the fact that I went to an incredibly ignorant high school. Most of the people who hate Bush, and I'm not standing up for Bush or anything here, because I do feel he has made many mistakes during his presidency...but most of the people who claim to despise him so don't have any reason to back this up either. It sounds very similar to the Clinton cases before -- biased. I really wanted to punch some kids in the face during my Politics course last semester. They'd seriously go on about how much they hate Bush, and it seems, honestly, to me, that Bush-bashing has become the in-thing with most teenagers who know little about politics overall, and their only 'source' of information comes from Fahrenheit 9/11. Honestly, though, since I am old enough to vote in this election, I still haven't decided who I am for. Hillary has no experience in office, except for the fact that her husband was president, and I feel that she had no right saying some of the things she did against Obama (re: Martin Luther King did nothing, or whatever it was) and at the same time, Obama's views align nothing at all with mine. Honestly, I took a political 'guideline test' which I should find, and I got matched with Clinton. Hah. Now, before you go and accuse me of being biased against Democrats and favoring Republicans because of my upbringing here, I must say that I am definitely not for McCain either. His beliefs and goals are very...off...and honestly, I feel we might as well have a race between three Democrats in this case. The media coverage is fairly biased nowadays, anyway, but I do agree with what has been said here previously -- McCain already won the primary so there's nothing left to talk about. I seriously haven't done any research, and I apologize, but I really can't say anything more on this topic. I should look up some information before getting into a political discussion, I realize, but eh. Just kind of a touchy subject...I really hate kids that just go around spewing repeated lines from their favorite actors or comedy shows just because it's popular and that seems to make them think they're so knowledgeable. Also, this thread has seriously made me thankful that SOME PEOPLE under the age of 18 have some kind of political know-how (lol, I'm not from Texas or anything). Seriously. Kids around me, in my neighborhood and at my college...people who are my AGE seriously need to take a lesson from you guys. |
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#12 |
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FFR Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cary, NC
Age: 26
Posts: 695
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You don't need that much political knowledge for this. It definately helps your opinion though. This thread was mainly to talk about the candidate-bashing people: what they do, why they do it, what you think of them, and if you want, how you feel like harming them (lol).
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#13 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 166
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Personally, I'm a huuuge Obama-basher. >.<
I feel that Obama is mainly using his race to win, and I really don't like how he's (very quietly) strongly opposed to gay marraiges, and gays in general. Not sure what Clinton's opinion on that is...but when I find out, I'll know who I would vote for. |
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#14 | |
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FFR Player
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#15 | ||||
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FFR Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 2,344
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I love how McCain won the Republican nomination so quick that people already forget about him. On the news, they always report on Barack and Hillary.Quote:
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![]() Hillary has more scandals than Bill by the way. Anyone who cares to look up her history will find some great stories. ![]()
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