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#41 | |
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Very Grave Indeed
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#42 |
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Frau Bow
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas
Age: 30
Posts: 9,200
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I think the first person to get up there and have enough weapons to claim it would own the moon. You said mining rights? what kind of useful resources are even on the moon.
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Join SMO IRC. irc.rizon.net#smo |
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#43 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 346
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Why is this thread back up?
Izzy, read the first 2 pages and you will find all your questions answered. I don't have a comment on this anymore, we are running in circles here debating that it requires recognition for any nation to claim the moon yet nations with power can seize the moon themselves. Thats the basic summary of the last few posts. |
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#44 |
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TWG Veteran
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Bingo. That's exactly what it would be.
Now, izzy, if that were true that the Africans mule still control Australia, the Native Americans your own North America, the Saxons; England, etc etc.
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#45 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 346
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I believe it was the Europeans who had more than enough firepower to suppress the natives or aboriginals, not the other way around.
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#46 |
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TWG Veteran
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Technically the Chinese invented gun powder. But my point is, based on the logic that who ever gets there first gets it, practically everything we know today isn't technically ours then.
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#47 |
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tool
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Rzr: It's in Worcester, MA.
Devonin: The terms of the treaties only forbid states and governments from owning land or property. If a corporation were to gain the backing of multiple states, then, oddly enough it would still be considered a private entity and as such has the permission to claim rights on portions of the moon. This is one of the things that's important; what's to stop one big company from getting financial backing from a handful of countries, going up and claiming the entire moon? Who would be able to stop them? The UN doesn't have a security force capable of protecting rights in space, and as such it seems hard to even make the laws apply. But, then again, if the laws don't apply then it's basically open war in space. We're trying to find a balance that allows for all of these things to be peaceful and prosperous (lol star trek \\//). But then, if a company is allowed to claim X amount of land, there are other things to consider. The south pole has the highest concentration of water (hydrogen and oxygen) on the entire moon, so that's valuable. The equator has the highest concentrations of Helium 3 and other important resources, so that's also important. The very tall mountains, which can get solar coverage 24/7 to power your lunar base, are also very important. How do we stop people from claiming these exceedingly important areas privately? The mountains and south pole in particular need to be public use because they allow for survival up there.
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#48 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 346
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I don't think thats all there is to that theory. You get there first and you can keep it, that makes it yours. However, I don't believe the same generic theory applies to space bodies, for it has a worldwide complexity and many difficulties to consider.
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#49 |
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tool
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Plus there are kinda a lot of laws prohibiting space weaponization.
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#50 |
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TWG Veteran
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Polk: that's where my uncle lives. I just asked if I could take the train up to visit him but my dad said no
![]() Now, zythus, I think that if the logic is correct in saying 'finders keepers' then it should more so be that whoever has the greatest understanding of the unclaimed object may claim it. But that entails a whole new aspect of care and nurturing. If my previously stated logic is correct, then the same could be said about claiming animals. However, society would say otherwise because even if one fully understood what one was claiming, they may not treat it properly. |
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#51 |
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tool
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Aw, well thanks for trying Rzr.
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#52 |
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TWG Veteran
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No problem
it would have been cool ![]() |
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#53 | ||||
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Very Grave Indeed
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Izzy said Quote:
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I suspect that when the treaty was made it was simply assumed that nobody that wasn't a government would ever have a space program, and thus didn't need mentioning, but I don't think there would be nearly enough international recognition of Mooncrosoft for them to be able to make that play. But then, politics as a concept is nothing but the power to make other people do things you want them to, so I suppose it is nominally possible that with sufficient support, a company could try to claim the moon, but I think if that happened, instead of people going "Oh darn, we should have planned for that when we made the treaty" the overwhelming reaction would be "Oh, private companies have space programs now? Time to redo the treaty" |
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#54 | |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 346
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#55 | ||
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tool
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To quote the relevant articles from the OST, article 2:
Quote:
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#56 |
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TWG Veteran
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@ zythus: I'm saying logically whoever has the most knowledge should have the most control over it. That doesn't mean they will. You're perfectly right in saying that (to paraphrase) violence and physical force will initially overcome logic everytime.
@ Polk: note that both articles neither specify which moon may not be claimed or any other space bodies. So to say that America could claim Earth's moon right now by those articles. When questioned they could use the loop hole and say "we thought you meant Saturn's moon." To make a joke out of it, I, Edmund Joseph Nolan III. am henceforth claiming the planet of Mars, its rings, its moon, and 1000 Earth miles into Mars' physical atmosphere along with all discovered inhabitants and undiscoved inhabitants, and all matter within the specific atmosphere through the cop of said planet. There. Now I'm auctioning it off. To start the bidding: a 1 year subscription. |
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#57 |
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Very Grave Indeed
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The Moon with a capitalized M is always understood to mean Earth's moon, just as "The Sun" is understood to mean Sol
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#58 |
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TWG Veteran
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Which is just an implication. And implications always lead to assumptions. And we all know what they say about assumptions.
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#59 |
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tool
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Rzr, be realistic. That argument doesn't really fit into CT.
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#60 |
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TWG Veteran
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Lol, no, a mere comment.
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