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Old 01-14-2008, 03:52 PM   #21
jewpinthethird
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

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Originally Posted by lord_carbo View Post
I agree that public schools tend toward a one-size-fits-all thing and it's a problem that will certainly affect us in the future. The question is, what's the solution? Encourage diverse curricula? Vouchers? Anything else?
Well, I don't think there is an easy solution. I am against vouchers because I don't believe schools should be run like businesses and voucher programs are abused by those who already have a means to pay for private school. Also, vouchers invite the government into previously private institutions. I have nothing against private schools, but they should not receive any tax-payer money from the government.

I think a diverse curricula would be more beneficial. Such as providing various routes for students to graduate from high school. For example: receiving high school credit for vocational training, as well as greater cooperation between high schools and community colleges in providing an accelerated path of graduation.

Unfortunately, the way I see it, publics schools are being run like businesses due to a lack in funds. As such, schools cut programs that don't make them money (languages, arts, music, sciences) in favor of those courses which students tested on: mainly math and English (the higher a school scores on standardized tests, the more money they receive). However, you do not see cuts in extracurricular programs like football...because football games are a large source of revenue for schools despite the fact that it has nothing to do with education.

So what am I saying? Increase funding for public education. Teachers are worn thin as it is: over-sized class rooms, outdated material, and low pay do not make a good education system. We are robbing children of a decent education because this administration (and other state governments) don't see the importance of an well-educated majority. Now, I'm not conspiracy theorist, but I'd be really wary of a government that spends more money on starting wars than it does educating its children.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:15 PM   #22
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird View Post
I am against vouchers because I don't believe schools should be run like businesses
Why?

Quote:
and voucher programs are abused by those who already have a means to pay for private school.
How?

Quote:
Also, vouchers invite the government into previously private institutions.
How?

Quote:
I have nothing against private schools, but they should not receive any tax-payer money from the government.
Why?

Quote:
I think a diverse curricula would be more beneficial. Such as providing various routes for students to graduate from high school. For example: receiving high school credit for vocational training, as well as greater cooperation between high schools and community colleges in providing an accelerated path of graduation.
The two things aren't exclusive.

Quote:
Unfortunately, the way I see it, publics schools are being run like businesses due to a lack in funds. As such, schools cut programs that don't make them money (languages, arts, music, sciences) in favor of those courses which students tested on: mainly math and English (the higher a school scores on standardized tests, the more money they receive). However, you do not see cuts in extracurricular programs like football...because football games are a large source of revenue for schools despite the fact that it has nothing to do with education.
Revenue will always be a factor. You're ignoring other factors which are controllable, like curriculum standards which artificially value Math and English to the point that an inordinate amount of funding needs to go to them.

Quote:
So what am I saying? Increase funding for public education.
This won't do anything.

Quote:
Teachers are worn thin as it is: over-sized class rooms, outdated material, and low pay do not make a good education system.
Do you think the countless countries which surpass us in education have small class sizes, the newest materials and high salaries? These things aren't significant. You need to look for your opinions somewhere other than the teacher's unions. If a teacher wants to complain about their sinecures then maybe they should look at the lifestyles of people who actually work for a living first.

Quote:
We are robbing children of a decent education because this administration (and other state governments) don't see the importance of an well-educated majority.
A well educated majority is impossible. Our colleges are already filled with incompetent professors due to a surplus of graduate degrees brought on by the intervention of a well meaning government.

Half your statements sound meaningless and the other half baseless. Try fleshing them out. I hope for your sake that you can.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:26 PM   #23
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

@Jewp: The problem with giving more money to schools is that the money doesn't go to better education. Case in point: Kansas City. Billions more was given to the district, and grades didn't increase at all.

We pay twice as much adjusted for inflation than 30 years ago but grades have barely budged.

As Thomas Sowell says about college education and finances, "Very often the case if made to the legislature and the public that the students deserve a better education but, after the money is appropriated, most of the additional money may go to raise faculty salaries, reduce teaching loads, or finance more research projects." He observes that average joint costs are impossible to compute, but marginal costs are. And when they are computed, it's not very favorable. See, schools only have to do "well enough." There are no incentives to better than that because public schools do not depend on doing well to get money. This creates an inefficient use of resources. In the same chapter, he notes that before WWII, hundreds of black chemists were hired in the private industries, while every single major university hired none. They could do what was trendy at the time. The private institutes needed to get the best they could, and because black chemists were seldom hired by public institutes which didn't need to be efficient, the private institutes saw the economic advantages in hiring neglected yet talented black chemists. Even in an era filled with racism, affirmative action wasn't needed to hire these people, only incentives for profit. He says it clearly: "Discrimination entails costs on the discriminators." Now public institutes will tend to hire more than necessary due to affirmative action and its trendiness, and the costs are borne by others.

If you're against running schools like a business, then you may like Obama's plan (well, at least the part that doesn't call for more of the same): pay teachers much more based on their quality.

Many districts pay teachers the same amount. This perpetuates a "Market for Lemons," as explained by Nobel Prize-winning economist Akerlof--basically, there are less good teachers because the demands for good and bad teachers are the same due to "asymmetrical information," meaning that the administrators don't know (and because of monopoly power, don't care) who they are hiring and all teachers get paid the same anyway. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, Google it.) Well basically, if teachers could be graded somehow on their quality, they'd have an incentive to perform better. This is the same principle behind voucher programs, but on a much smaller scale, and on one that people like you could probably get behind.

Monopolies are always inefficient. Always.

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A well educated majority is impossible. Our colleges are already filled with incompetent professors due to a surplus of graduate degrees brought on by the intervention of a well meaning government.
If you ever see Thomas Sowell's Economic Facts and Fallacies in a bookstore (the lovely book I was referencing earlier in this post), sit down, buy a cup of coffee, and read the chapter titled "Academic Facts and Fallacies." It will blow your mind. Summary of chapter: colleges behave stupidly, your professors suck, your colleges need to do worse to seem better, colleges are very profit motivated despite being "non-profit," your professors suck, Harvard and other elite colleges are overrated, nobody in the system really gives a **** about what is going on, and your professors really suck.
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Old 01-15-2008, 08:11 PM   #24
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Unhappy Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

I say school needs to be made much harder, and punishments twice as severe. Kids today are immature, puerile, unappreciative brats who don't care about anything that they are given, which DOES include education. Their incorrigible attitude only compounds the issue. If kids were made to realize what they were doing wrong and punished for it should they knowingly break rules, they might shape up. MIGHT. I've seen countless kids sent to the dean's office and punished, only to be back in the class in no time doing the same old things, obviously not having learned anything.

I do feel bad for the teachers that are overworked and underpaid. Teachers deserve to be paid upwards of 100,000$ for the hardest positions, like college. Maybe, if students were shown how they hurt their teachers with their laziness and lack of work ethic, it may touch them enough to motivate them to work harder. But very few kids seem to truly understand how they feel. I feel for them.

If students were shown how they harm those around them (And not just teachers) with their attitudes, I think it would really make a change in them (Not to repeat what I just stated). I have seen what happens to overworked teachers, and it isn't pretty. Some choose not to care anymore. Others decide to become excessively lax, and others become rigid and severe. I've seen all three, and I feel bad when it happens, because I know that the teacher has endured so many years of hardship that they can't take it anymore.

For the kids that do care, they make the future brighter for America and for the world. Unfortunately, the world is running out of these children, who are being replaced by overweight, unintelligent slackers with complacent, care-free parents. Who knows what'll happen. It may suddenly turn around as things reach their climax, or it may continue to descend until the nation collapses. As more people are birthed, more intelligent people enter the world. But many more slackers are born alongside him.


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Old 01-15-2008, 11:00 PM   #25
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

Unfortunately compassion and caring only sounds good on paper. It works lousily in both theory and practice, however, because there are few incentives for schools to do better, for teachers to do better.

The notion that increases pay increases incentives for more qualified teachers to teach completely contradicts research and theory on asymmetrical information and--worse--on basic labor market theory: we'd have a surplus of laborers. Teachers are too vast in unmeasurable and unknown qualities to compare, and certainly more pay for all teachers will seldom encourage schools to make sure they're getting the best. This is arguably true for all workers but especially for teachers, where every single quality is crucial as teaching is an open, social profession and little to no prior experience is often held. It's an inefficient method that creates more problems than it solves because subsidized schools have no reason to protect themselves from this type of enormous overspending, which eventually just leads back to the low "equilibrium" quality. As stated in the Market for Lemons paper, you can never buy a good used car.

The notion that teachers deserve more money need not be true because the economy is a system for trades to operate--not a moral machine where people should determine the value of a voluntary trade in which teachers willingly subject themselves to the pay they get. Maybe teachers are getting underpaid. So? Then why do they insist on working? If anything, tenured and unionized teachers are given too many protections. It's the good teachers that aren't paid enough, and the bad teachers that are paid too much. Unions discourage stand-outs in the workplace and demand equal and "fair" wages. That's essentially what a union is: a big collection of people acting as one voice. But people aren't different.
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:56 AM   #26
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

As a specific example supporting the statement that America's education is failing, the high school I recently graduated from has formed a new rule that teachers cannot, for any reason, assign a grade lower than 50% on any assignment. Reason being: Grades lower than 50% 'demotivate' kids. So far, only one teacher who happened to me my Government teacher (a really smart guy) has opposed the rule and has been stuck down quite severely by the school board.

As for the results of America's "failing" education, outsourcing jobs in the medical, science, and higher tech fields will continue to increase, along with insourcing of employees for jobs that cannot easily be outsourced.

A cause of that, a BS (Bachelor of Science) degree is already basically bs. If one doesn't pursue a Masters degree or higher in many similar fields, disappointment is surely in the near future.
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Old 01-16-2008, 03:29 AM   #27
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

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Originally Posted by jecht3009046 View Post
As a specific example supporting the statement that America's education is failing, the high school I recently graduated from has formed a new rule that teachers cannot, for any reason, assign a grade lower than 50% on any assignment. Reason being: Grades lower than 50% 'demotivate' kids.
Lmfao. That's gotta be the stupidest thing thats ever been passed in a school. I hope the brain-dead morons that passed that rule drop dead. Literally. All they are doing is letting those kids get a free ride through school, and in turn that will destroy the education that they were originally motivated to receive. After all, you have to put almost no effort to pass. All you have to do is get 20% of the assignment correct to pass. What a joke.

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Originally Posted by jecht3009046 View Post
As for the results of America's "failing" education, outsourcing jobs in the medical, science, and higher tech fields will continue to increase, along with insourcing of employees for jobs that cannot easily be outsourced.

A cause of that, a BS (Bachelor of Science) degree is already basically bs. If one doesn't pursue a Masters degree or higher in many similar fields, disappointment is surely in the near future.
Well regardless of what degree you get, some teachers don't do a good job no matter what. For some jobs, like teaching, a degree is only a measure of how much you learned in school. It doesn't measure how good of a teacher you are. Some teachers with a bachelor's degree do far better than their PhD counterparts.


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Originally Posted by lord_carbo View Post
Unfortunately compassion and caring only sounds good on paper. It works lousily in both theory and practice, however, because there are few incentives for schools to do better, for teachers to do better.

The notion that increases pay increases incentives for more qualified teachers to teach completely contradicts research and theory on asymmetrical information and--worse--on basic labor market theory: we'd have a surplus of laborers. Teachers are too vast in unmeasurable and unknown qualities to compare, and certainly more pay for all teachers will seldom encourage schools to make sure they're getting the best. This is arguably true for all workers but especially for teachers, where every single quality is crucial as teaching is an open, social profession and little to no prior experience is often held. It's an inefficient method that creates more problems than it solves because subsidized schools have no reason to protect themselves from this type of enormous overspending, which eventually just leads back to the low "equilibrium" quality. As stated in the Market for Lemons paper, you can never buy a good used car.
Well said. But I should have made myself more clear: while many teachers do deserve to be paid more, they should also be recognized for the efforts they are making. For the few bad apples in the pile, they need to have some of their pay docked. That money should either go to the teachers that deserve it, or it should be put back into the budget where it can be put to better use (At least I hope it will). The teachers who teach don't teach for the money. They want to make a difference in their student's lives. They want to help ensure that their future is secured, and that the student will follow what the teacher has taught them throughout their lives and apply it to themselves, so that they become a better individual. These teachers don't seek the monetary rewards alone; they seek and reap the moral and spiritual benefits as well. Teachers should be paid based on their ability to teach, yes. But making the salary a stable figure for most teachers is also a priority if we wish to pay our teachers fairly, and help reach equilibrium in that area.

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Originally Posted by lord_carbo View Post
The notion that teachers deserve more money need not be true because the economy is a system for trades to operate--not a moral machine where people should determine the value of a voluntary trade in which teachers willingly subject themselves to the pay they get. Maybe teachers are getting underpaid. So? Then why do they insist on working? If anything, tenured and unionized teachers are given too many protections. It's the good teachers that aren't paid enough, and the bad teachers that are paid too much. Unions discourage stand-outs in the workplace and demand equal and "fair" wages. That's essentially what a union is: a big collection of people acting as one voice. But people aren't different.
I know that. Teachers work for a reason, and I stated it well enough above. But it isn't fair that people who work in such a critically important job get so underpaid. Teachers are actually in extremely short supply in many areas, and in some places like New Jersey, the average teacher makes a six-figure income.

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Maybe teachers are getting underpaid. So? Then why do they insist on working?
If you were around teachers who were overworked and underpaid, and felt the emotional strain that they are consistently burdened with, I'm sure you would not have made that statement. To say that trivializes the issue. Being a teacher is not like being a nuclear physicist, or an engineer, or an architect. The people are the ones who make society run. Without them, society would collapse. And believe me, we don't have a lot of teachers in a LOT of places. A lot of people do not want to be a teacher because of it's low pay, they get treated badly by many of their students, and the job itself is often very hard. Now teachers are not in critically low supply, but it isn't an attractive job. I know pay is not determined by a job's moral significance. However, when they try to speak out, say, in a union, then it can just get them outright fired. It's despicable and morally depraved as to how these people are treated.

I think I have been going on too long in this post. To make my point, teachers are treated like garbage much of the time. They are underpaid and have to deal with a bucketload of kids everyday, many of which don't make their jobs easier. Some cannot handle it, and will stop giving kids any decent education. The students have a role in America's failing education. Some teachers play a part. And America itself does as well. This is a complex issue comprising of many layers. To fix the problem isn't easy, and there is no one solution to the crisis. But we can begin by taking government involvement out of schools, giving them adequate funding, treating our teachers better, and motivating kids. America needs to pay full attention to this matter, and action has been belated for too long.

P.S. lord_carlo, I think you meant to say "But people are different.

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Old 01-16-2008, 10:25 AM   #28
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

College professors do not have to be good teachers, they are only required to teach in addition to the research they have to do. Teachers at schools have to attain a teaching degree and no doubt they will pick up a thing or two while attaining their degree.

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WHEN do you think people die...?
When their heart is pierced by a bullet from a pistol...? No.
When they succumb to an incurable disease...? No.
When they drink soup made with a poisonous mushroom...? NO!!!
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:40 AM   #29
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

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College professors do not have to be good teachers, they are only required to teach in addition to the research they have to do. Teachers at schools have to attain a teaching degree and no doubt they will pick up a thing or two while attaining their degree.

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That you don't need a B.Ed to teach at the college/university level seems a little ridiculous to me. Pretty much every really great professor I've had in university took the time to get a B.Ed so they could learn how to teach properly.

I've had some of the most brilliant teachers and professors you could ever want, and they can't teach worth a damn, so all that knowledge doesn't get passed on in a worthwhile way, and you don't learn enough.

My brother had a computer/tech teacher in highschool who used to work for NASA, guy knew just about all there was to know about his field, but because he never learned how to teach (This was back when computer teachers were an exception and didn't need a B.Ed [This was also far enugh back that the course was called "Lab 2000" probably with an exclamation mark]) he turned all kinds of kids right off of getting into technology fields.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:20 PM   #30
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

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That you don't need a B.Ed to teach at the college/university level seems a little ridiculous to me. Pretty much every really great professor I've had in university took the time to get a B.Ed so they could learn how to teach properly.
Colleges don't have any market incentive to hire "really great professors" in terms of teaching. If there were, then that would be a de facto requirement by the market. Professors only need to provide good research, and nontenured professors who are popular with students often put too much emphasis on their teaching to be likable by whom they are hired. Nontenured professors too strict in their grading get bad reviews from students, leading them to be fired. The traits of an eventually tenured professor: grade inflation and lousy teaching. It's for these reason that for young teachers, the "teacher of the year" award is called "the kiss of death. They don't have enough time to create high quality lectures and provide the research required to get hired.

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I've had some of the most brilliant teachers and professors you could ever want, and they can't teach worth a damn, so all that knowledge doesn't get passed on in a worthwhile way, and you don't learn enough.
I bet their brilliance translates into their research.

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My brother had a computer/tech teacher in highschool who used to work for NASA, guy knew just about all there was to know about his field, but because he never learned how to teach (This was back when computer teachers were an exception and didn't need a B.Ed [This was also far enugh back that the course was called "Lab 2000" probably with an exclamation mark]) he turned all kinds of kids right off of getting into technology fields.
Well in that case there was simply a scarcity of supply.
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:03 PM   #31
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

It seems ridiculous, but that's the reality. Some of the professors in the US might actually give a damn about teaching while others just won't put the extra effort into the subject they are suppose to teach. This just forces students to learn the material by themselves if they are serious about it.

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WHEN do you think people die...?
When their heart is pierced by a bullet from a pistol...? No.
When they succumb to an incurable disease...? No.
When they drink soup made with a poisonous mushroom...? NO!!!
IT'S WHEN A PERSON IS FORGOTTEN...!!!
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Old 01-18-2008, 11:54 PM   #32
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

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I say school needs to be made much harder, and punishments twice as severe. Kids today are immature, puerile, unappreciative brats who don't care about anything that they are given, which DOES include education. Their incorrigible attitude only compounds the issue. If kids were made to realize what they were doing wrong and punished for it should they knowingly break rules, they might shape up. MIGHT. I've seen countless kids sent to the dean's office and punished, only to be back in the class in no time doing the same old things, obviously not having learned anything.
It's not so much necessarily that school needs to be harder, the expectations should be higher. Smart people ARE having some trouble with honor classes, as well as mantaining an above average grade. I agree that punishments should be somewhat more severe; if you miss a lot of homework assignments, you should be subject to getting a zero on all of those late assignments for not even doing it in the first place. Now, I sometimes don't know what to do for my homework, and even if I write it down in the binder the teacher may not have clearly explained it.... That's the one and only reason why I would miss a homework assignment. I actually put some effort in my work.


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Originally Posted by Bynary Fission
I do feel bad for the teachers that are overworked and underpaid. Teachers deserve to be paid upwards of 100,000$ for the hardest positions, like college. Maybe, if students were shown how they hurt their teachers with their laziness and lack of work ethic, it may touch them enough to motivate them to work harder. But very few kids seem to truly understand how they feel. I feel for them.
I remember having the best math teacher of all time in my middle school 6th grade year, and we all had a discussion on how student behavior effects his career. If the students in class aren't paying attention or are not behaving properly, and achieve poor grades, he would get fired just because the kids were acting stupid.

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Originally Posted by Bynary Fission
For the kids that do care, they make the future brighter for America and for the world. Unfortunately, the world is running out of these children, who are being replaced by overweight, unintelligent slackers with complacent, care-free parents. Who knows what'll happen. It may suddenly turn around as things reach their climax, or it may continue to descend until the nation collapses. As more people are birthed, more intelligent people enter the world. But many more slackers are born alongside him.
Well, it's not necessarily 100% true that overweight people are dumb. Some are just overweight because they lack physical exercise.

However, I do agree America should cut down of morbidly obese people.

FYI: When I googled Is Americas education system failing I saw an article about how much better private schools were than public schools.

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Old 01-19-2008, 02:49 AM   #33
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

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It's not so much necessarily that school needs to be harder, the expectations should be higher. Smart people ARE having some trouble with honor classes, as well as mantaining an above average grade. I agree that punishments should be somewhat more severe; if you miss a lot of homework assignments, you should be subject to getting a zero on all of those late assignments for not even doing it in the first place. Now, I sometimes don't know what to do for my homework, and even if I write it down in the binder the teacher may not have clearly explained it.... That's the one and only reason why I would miss a homework assignment. I actually put some effort in my work.
That's good. I hope you continue to do so. While raising expectations will encourage some students to work harder, many are completely unmotivated, and don't care whether they fail or not, regardless of expectations. Ultimately, it IS up the the student to decide whether he wants to get his education or not. But America's schools don't really help to motivate students anyways, so it is a double whammy in it's own right, with failures on both ends (For the most part, a few public schools really are good).

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Well, it's not necessarily 100% true that overweight people are dumb. Some are just overweight because they lack physical exercise.

However, I do agree America should cut down of morbidly obese people.

FYI: When I googled Is Americas education system failing I saw an article about how much better private schools were than public schools.
I know not all overweight kids are dumb. I have spent most of my life slightly overweight (~5-10 pounds) and I'm very intelligent. Only recently did I lose those pounds. I now have a solid 16% body fat. But that's irrelevant. I was referring to the archetypal overweight, unmotivated slacker who typically isn't that bright. However, you are right. I should not use overweight kids as an example. My mistake.

Yes, private schools are often 10x better than their public counterparts, simply because they expect more out of a student, and they are better at motivating their students. I know this from experience. I went to a Christian private school in 5th and 6th grade in New York, and a private school in kindergarten. If you got < 72% on your assignments, it was an F. I always had straight As, as I am motivated to succeed and do well in life later on. but anyways, the schools do not have government intervention. The students there were brighter, more motivated, kinder, and the teacher was probably the absolute best I've ever seen. Too bad many people can't afford to send their students to private schools.

I've always thought that if the government were to either

A) Learn off of private schools in terms of education and motivation, or

B) Get the hell out of America's public schools

America's education system would not be such a failure. After all, they even let companies advertise in schools in return for funding, as they cannot provide adequate funding for many schools. Many of the things they give out [the companies] are lies or twisted truths. For example, there was an example in which Procter and Gamble gave funding to schools in return to pass out pamphlets containing information about them and their products. Some of the text read "Procter & Gamble's products do not harm the environment". BS. Other companies force kids to watch a set amount of advertising daily from X company that pays them. I know Coca-Cola did this. It's so sad. These schools should be some of the best in the world. But they aren't. The only schools that usually provide any decent education are private schools and colleges.




~Bynary Fission

Last edited by Bynary Fission; 01-19-2008 at 02:50 AM.. Reason: Made an error in wording.
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Old 01-19-2008, 08:53 AM   #34
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

There's also another reason for America's failing public schools, actually... I remember a year ago I heard on the radio only 50% of public school students graduated from high school.

Also, there's a thread about rap music being a bad influence on children. I understand not everyone listens or cares about it, I dont, but many children have been influenced by rap, please look at the quote below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter View Post
I do think that rap music (specific rap music, of course, not all) enforces a VERY negative stereotype about successful black people.

Rap artists and sports stars are the most predominant examples of rich black people. By virtue of their position, they are idolized by kids. What do they teach, though? Being successful includes lots of drugs, lots of money, lots of sex, and lots of violence. Engaging in that violence and even getting murdered is honorable to rap music. The rappers frequently live their songs, thus encouraging younger people to do the same.

What's the result? Widespread use of ebonics and otherwise horrible grammar, widespread lack of respect for authority, almost no family values (what's the ratio of black single mothers to married parents again?), and a striking disparity in violent crime rates.
The people who have all those problems? Embodying rap music. That's tantamount to success.

There's a serious problem with recursion in the black community. Whom do kids have to idolize? The upstanding, successful black men and women like Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice? No, they're deemed "not black" by the black community! Bill Cosby is berated and discredited when he tries to suggest that the status of black culture is in a troubled spot, and that other black people are to blame for it! Sports stars? Okay, you've got your Michael Jordans and others in there who try to make a difference and do, but you also have the Kobe Bryant rapists and the Michael Irvin druggies and whoremongers.
Then you have the rap stars, who are a huge part of the black community as a whole. These people are, for the most part, societal vortices. They spiral down and away from anything that is sensible, decent, or worth encouraging and bring down anyone around them, too.

And these are the people who are idolized. Those kids who successfully live the rapper life only continue to reinforce the stereotype that successfull black people are thuggish, sex-craved, and have no respect for authority or education.
On my bolded words, younger people seem to live with the rap music, so as a side effect, they use horrible spelling and grammar because they are influenced by rap/hip hop. This could be another reason why the students in high schools are like "Yo wussup homies" because the rappers usually act like that, and they frequently swear. These kids influenced by rappers seem to care more about having a gang and making a rap group than having a good education.

EDIT: Haha I found my notice on the floor and it stated that in my region the supervisor of the public schools were taking away an elementary school and redistricting 7 schools. Increased Lunch prices, activity prices, and transportation rides will take place next school year. It even stated the school's budget was really low. Also, the notice said that this type of movement will damage Elementary school programs, which aren't that important but it is still quite horrible.

Last edited by RVL; 01-19-2008 at 09:04 AM..
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:31 PM   #35
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

Rap music is a bad influence, and to a severe degree I might add. I know this from personal experience, and I'll tell you why. Listen to this. In 8th grade (Last year), I went to a magnet school. It was a school with it's basis on Aerospace/Aviation and technology. But it presided in a ghetto filled with mostly Mexican and Hispanic people, followed by blacks. The school's race distribution was a staggering 70% Hispanic and 15% black. The rest was white, Asian, and other. And let me tell you...8 out of every 10 kids I knew listened to gangster rap and hip-hop. And it showed. The kids at my school were extremely vulgar, easily angered, violent, and many were failing at school. Some did drugs. This was even present in the predominately white Magnet population there (The Magnet kids are the special group of kids that applied to go there and utilize the special programs there, and to get in you had to have a few requirements, like a 2.5 GPA or higher). Mainstream rap does idolize all of the aforementioned things. I have listened to a little myself, to see what it was like. It was torture. I have failed to understand how ANYbody likes it..though I can see why they like it.

But rap is not the only thing that is dragging schools down. In fact, I'm not sure rap actually has that significant of a role in failure and dropout rates (Though I'd love to see a statistic showing the correlation. I'm not doubting it exists, I'd just like to see one), but the trash on TV helps demotivate our kids, and lets not forget the excessive video games, s*itty teachers, and overall lack of motivation. The problem has been allowed to grow and fester for many, many years. The problem will not be easy to fix, nor will it be swift. But if we don't stop now, we may soon cross the Point of No Return.




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Old 01-20-2008, 02:10 AM   #36
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bynary Fission View Post
And let me tell you...8 out of every 10 kids I knew listened to gangster rap and hip-hop. And it showed. The kids at my school were extremely vulgar, easily angered, violent, and many were failing at school. Some did drugs. This was even present in the predominately white Magnet population there.
This is true pretty much anywhere, as far as I know. The majority of students in my area, which has an ethnic distribution similar to the national average, are similar to what you describe. It seems like a greater percentage of black students listen to rap than white students, but both numbers are quite high. Drugs are common (a good number of students at my school, which is a charter school, do drugs), people in public schools tend to fail classes, etc.

What I'm curious about is whether rap followed or lead the American culture. Did people turn to rap because students were getting, in general, more violent/vulgar/etc? Or did the trend appear because students turned to rap?
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Old 01-20-2008, 01:23 PM   #37
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Default Re: Is America's failing education system going to impact our economy in 10 years' ti

I remember 2 years ago, I was in a school filled with students that fought a lot and get pregnant before they finish middle school. I'm Asian, there were only 5 other kids that are Asian and 3% white (they already adjusted them selves the culture there) the rest are mostly Black and Hispanic. Before I moved there, I was in a "well-mannered" and organized school; this school in contrast had laziest and stupidest people I’ve ever met. The first time I witnessed a fight, I cried immediately after I got home, I just couldn’t handle the huge adjustment. I’ve never in my life seen people fight so seriously, especially when more people started ganging up against one person. I do not hate people that listen to rap, it’s their choice, and after being there for a while I actually listened to some R&B myself. Kids in the school I’m attending right now also listens to rap/ R&B, but they are willing to learn.
As for the classes, the teachers doesn’t even take a good look at my tests, they just give me 100% on everything. Seriously, if the teachers had been more responsible things would improve at least a tiny bit. I remembered once the English teacher showed a video about high school violence, the scene where the kids fought; the entire English class got out of their seats and cheered! The teacher doesn’t even stop the video and say something. They hardly think before they act, they are also very straightforward. If they liked someone, they would tell him or her right away. One kid became obsessed, he followed me to the girl’s bathroom, then later he went on my bus and looked for where I live. Doesn’t he know that was way overboard? The students have reached to a point where the answers are right on the board, and they still needed help.
It really depends on the area, the school I’m attending now has Hispanic and Black people as well, but they are very mature and understand how to handle situations instead of using violence.
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