Old 03-22-2004, 09:27 AM   #1
Specforces
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Default Thoughts, Ideas, where do they come from?

I notice with real careful observation that we are merely observers of our thoughts. We observe these streams of thoughts, choose between them but aren't actually thought. We aren't really a thinking being but an observer of thoughts.

I think that our senses are very important in concept formation. Consider an individual with no senses who is completely isolated. Would this individual have any ideas? Could it have a concept of self? It took Hellen Keller many years to form concepts. Before this she was almost animal-like in behavior.

We take the information given to us by our sense perception and through reflection form ideas. I think it is our ability to reflect that allows us to assert that we are thinking things. For instance, I can do much more than observe. I can postulate, hypothesize, predict, etc. Thus it seems that our thoughts and concept of self may have originated from our senses that are intimately tied with our intellect and ability to reflect. From these primitive thoughts we can build complexes and form further concepts and reflect upon them in turn.

I don't really see the need to postulate an infinite being here, at least not for the origins of thought. Perhaps you may wish to question what happens to the objects of perception when we no longer percieve them, etc.?

Any thoughts?
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Old 03-23-2004, 02:58 AM   #2
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Perhaps, we're simply guests in our own bodies. We see our bodies as an extension of ourselves, but maybe that's wrong. Perhaps we are simply parasites inside the bodies of primates, fully integrated into their species.
Some parasites have the ability to control small insects, why not homo sapien? Just pure consciousness experiencing the actions of an animal we have chosen as our host. While we believe we have thoughts, and make decisions, perhaps that is simply our interpretation of the functions of the primate brain.
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Old 03-25-2004, 07:41 PM   #3
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Could it be that ourselves, the universe, and everyone else is just an interpritation of a self aware being? It could be that the universe is just an interpretation of a self aware being(a soul) of itself.
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Old 03-26-2004, 03:52 AM   #4
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Yeah, you're all just figments of my complicated imagination by the way.
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Old 05-19-2004, 06:56 AM   #5
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A very complicated imagination it is.

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Old 05-19-2004, 05:06 PM   #6
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just think, if you want a big ego trip, everything around you is here for your amusement. we are what define the universe, thus we are the meaning of the universe, not what is the meaning of life, we are it!
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Old 05-19-2004, 08:10 PM   #7
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I think that our thoughts are who we are as people. And out thoughts also determine not just our personal furture but the future of the universe as well(only if you believe a paradox is possible). Helen Keller probably did have thoughts just in a format that people with senses could not interpret. She obviously thought about her hunger and when she needed to sleep but she could not think about color or sound in her early years.

Also, for a bit of a crazy thought, like perfect fat said the brain itself may just be a parasite and our bodies are designed to carry out this parasite's will.

The brain may just be a defect of evolution that produced a "different" system of controlling the body's functions to survive and reproduce. If you look at almost every other animal, their brains are set for two things- survival then reproduction. As humans we don't always follow this basic path and some animals also aren't always trying to find their next meal (I don't count house pets, they're not in a constant struggle to survive). But if I remember correctly reasearchers have found out that full-grown primates do occasionally engage in activities for their personal pleasure and have nothing to do with survival.

Maybe in a couple million years, primates today will look and act like us but the humans will be far different, more based on the parasite we call a brain than our physical body.

I don't remember this moral exactly but I'll try because I think it shows the power of thought- "Man is a funny little ceature, for he is the only one struck with the difference between what things are and what they ought to be.". I think this means that man is the only creature right now capable of interpreting the state of his world and be able to see what the actions of him and others will change and what the changes will bring. Or it has another meaning but still, I like the moral.

(Excuse the rant!)
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Old 05-19-2004, 08:15 PM   #8
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*sigh* the last post was mine, sorry, my computer seems to think that if I don't go to another page every 5 minutes, I'm done and logs me out. Actually, can a computer "think" or is it just a vague expression we use now to describe decision making?
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Old 05-20-2004, 03:32 AM   #9
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Hellen Keller...who's that.
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Old 05-20-2004, 03:04 PM   #10
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you weren't very interedted in English, were you Jam?
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Old 05-20-2004, 03:06 PM   #11
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interested, sorry for the double post and correction
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Old 05-20-2004, 04:40 PM   #12
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According to Greek and Islamic philsophy, there is an area of the brain called the imagination, which speaking metaphorically, is like a tv showing whats going on in the outside world. They believed this is in a chain linking physical and impure to mental and pure. The brain is partially physical and partially pure and mental, since it can think, yet it still exists physically. Pure thought exists only in the heavens, and since the heavens are therefore pure, perfection spills over and falls to earth. As it falls, it gets engrained in materiality and flaws. The brain was the enclave of mentality which fell all the way to earth. With the imagination linking it to the outside world, it could both be mental and connect to the physical world.
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Old 05-27-2004, 11:52 PM   #13
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thought (this is especially lucid in the case of imagination) is purposeful action which defeats the diminishing marginal utility problem of survival.

in other words, its a manifestation of the animate force, which is sometimes likened to passion in certain life forms
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