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Old 01-16-2008, 12:32 PM   #181
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

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Old 01-16-2008, 12:38 PM   #182
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

erm, well. not FFR bizniss... but for school.


<3. either way, i'll be back in LA tomorrow afternoon. i could try to AAA here in the library, but that would be a bit rude.


edit: also, shouldn't dabigpig have 23 for puzzle points? 3 5s and 2 4s.


also, my feelings on scoring, for a future 2nd CT tournament:
-Make it 10 points for 1st, then scale downward. Right now, 2nd-9th all get the same points, leaving little incentive for fast solving or a bonus for solving before others. either 1st for 5 or 4 for everyone else... or 0 (since we're getting less than 10 solves for the past 2 [probably 3] rounds, and likely future rounds). I'd say something LIKE...

1st - 10
2nd - 9
3rd/4th - 8
5th/6th - 7
7th-10th - 6
11th-15th - 5
16th-20th - 3
21st or more - 1

Possible some variant of that, but more along those lines. That way there is a) more incentive for finishing 2nd-6th and fighting for those spots as well and b) a bigger penalty for not submitting at all.

Also, I'd weight the CT vs FFR halves equally... yes, they are equal now in terms of points potential, sort of... but 2 potential changes. 1) point structure being identical for both halves, instead of 2nd-9th for 4 points on CT side vs 2nd-6th for 4 points on FFR side. I guess the reasoning for this is to put a bit more weight on the CT side of things, rewarding more people with points overall... but I don't' really agree/see the benefit of this. If you want to weight the CT side more, make the CT stuff worth 1.5x the value of the FFR stuff, but keep the placements the same. 2) Make ties factor into score more than they currently are. Instead of all 1st getting 5 and then if there are 7 of them, giving the next best score 3... take the 7 AAAs and give them 7.86 points each, instead of 10 (by my proposed above system... 4 points each by your system currently). Why 7.86? 10+9+8+8+7+7+6 = 55 / 7 = 7.86. The average of the point values of the 7. This would mean that each round has a set cap on potential points, vs the current system where everyone could get the max.

Just my 2 cents. Feel free to dispute/discuss/call me retarded.

ppps - i hate the round 5 song.



edit: OR... another idea on scoring... have a set amount of points to give out each round. then dole them out based upon the number of submitters for that round. that would give extra benefit for solving a really hard puzzle vs an easy one. you could get a f-ton of points if only you and 1 other person solved.... although this may be too much, and the 10/9 points you'd get for being one of two to solve vs the 0 for everyone else may be sufficient.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:28 PM   #183
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

I think it needs to be weighed by the number of submitters as well, instead of constants. Since the tourney is open to anyone and everyone at any time, it seems odd to have
comparative scoring and then to have a lack or boom of participation affect the scores.
Imagine if suddenly 25 people submitted AAAs for all the songs; while that probably won't happen, it would certainly skew the scores seeing as anything above a AAA would only be worth 1 point. On the other hand, as it is now, not too many people are submitting scores, so there is little incentive to do well on the songs, as it will only boost your score 1 or 2 points.

The way I would do it would be that the highest score receives 5 points (to keep it even with the max now) and the lowest gets 1. To determine the rest, use:

x=the score you're trying to figure out the point value for
h=highest score
l=lowest score

(h-x)/(h-l)*4

(h-x)/(h-l) gives you the ratio of the spread between the highest score and the score in question to the total spread (from high to low). You then multiply this decimal by 4, the total point spread from first to last.
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Old 01-16-2008, 02:21 PM   #184
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

also, would someone PM me the elegant solution to #5? i definitely brute forced it. too lazy to do it the easy way, as it didn't come to me within the first 10 seconds of thinking about it.
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Old 01-16-2008, 02:33 PM   #185
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

I agree with basically all of the proposed scoring "changes" but look over the numbers again, assuming for a moment that the 36 or so people who all said they were going to take part were actually actively taking part.

I based the scoring numbers off the number of participants, but now that we're down to like, 6 people actually bothering to do every round, you're correct, if you don't get it fast enough to be first, there's really no point in bothering to try and answer quickly.

I have the exact order of everyone answering every question, so it wouldn't actually be difficult to readjust all the scores based on a more hierarchical formula.
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Old 01-16-2008, 02:52 PM   #186
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

up to you. clearly I'm in favor, as i've been 1st or 2nd to date in all the FFR levels, and likely wouldn't drop below 4th in a worst case... and since participating, i have 2 2nds in 3 attempts for the CT part, and I suspect I'll continue to be in the top3 basically every round.

Even round 4 was based more on the fact that i'm in NY than anything else. If I had been in LA, I'd have been 1st. Wouldn't have gone to bed until I'd solved it. I digress. I'm content with whatever you decide. And I suspect I'll finish this either 1st or 2nd, even with losing 5 points based on the current system (4 for round 1, 1 for round 2). I love being ****y.



edit: actually, i wouldn't change it. i have to assume some people have some sort of strategy based on the current scoring system. it isn't fair to change it in the middle. just change it for the next one.
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Old 01-16-2008, 02:54 PM   #187
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

Hehe, well, when I get home from class tonight, I'll make a tighter scoring range, and adjust the overall scores according to that system, and post it down here, and see what people think generally of it. If everyone's keen to continue that way, I'll edit up all the previous scores posted in the main post.

Since I'm looking at 10 rounds, the 5/5 right now puts a perfect score at 100. If I up it to 10/10 say, that moves a perfect score to 200, which gives everyone a lot more room to improve their total score, and a lot more encouragement to try to improve their song scores to move up the list.

Last edited by devonin; 01-16-2008 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 01-16-2008, 02:56 PM   #188
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

erm, see my edit above...


also, about dabigpig? doesn't he have 23 currently?
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Old 01-16-2008, 02:58 PM   #189
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

I'll have to doublecheck the numbers when I get home where all my notes are.

What I'm thinking happened was that he got knocked down a song point, and I accidentally removed it from the puzzle points instead, though the 37 is, I believe still his correct current score, it's just 23/14 not 22/15

Edit: The post shows 23/13 for a total of 36, so i've edited it to reflect that. I'll double check it with my official documents when I get home.
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Old 01-16-2008, 04:30 PM   #190
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament



This riddle seems hard.
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Old 01-16-2008, 08:48 PM   #191
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

bummer, almost a sightread AAA.

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Old 01-17-2008, 12:07 AM   #192
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

man. I wish there was a round now. So bored. Sitting in a tiny regional airport waiting for my flight which leaves in five hours still. Been here for three already. And I was planning on getting food, but all the food places were already closed by 9. So I was hungry at 9 and have to wait until at least 4am, possibly until my puddle jumper lands around 7:30. So bored.
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Old 01-17-2008, 01:15 AM   #193
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

devonin, you said in the first post that there would be around 10 rounds. Could you give us a more specific number?
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:08 AM   #194
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

10
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Old 01-17-2008, 06:42 AM   #195
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...eplay/8568776/
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...eplay/8569180/
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...eplay/8569670/
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...eplay/8569995/

Like I said in the PM, no one told me this had started.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:24 AM   #196
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

Well I don't play FFR anymore nor do I have the time to critically think, however, I find this tournament idea a brilliant one. I'd like to send some credits (possibly 33K or so) your way, devonin, to help your shortage

PS: Hi everybody
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:37 PM   #197
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

For future reference:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devonin
Song submissions need to be posted in this thread, screenshots, not replays. If for whatever reason you actually want to insist that you or your computer are incapable of pressing some buttons, pasting into a program that comes with every computer that has windows, and signing up for a free photobucket account, I will take links to replays that are visibly timestamped appropriately
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Old 01-17-2008, 01:41 PM   #198
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

Alright, so I recalculated everyone's score using a more disparate scoring system. If you replace the current
Code:
Puzzle Scores        Song Scores
Order                Levelrank  Points
Submitted  Points
1 ->     5 points    1 ->     5 points
2-9 ->   4 points    2-6 ->   4 points
10-19 -> 3 points    7-14 ->  3 points
20-29 -> 2 points    15-19->  2 points
30+ ->   1 point     20+ ->   1 point
with
Code:
Puzzle Scores        Song Scores
Order                Levelrank  Points
Submitted  Points
1 ->    10 points    1 ->    10 points
2 ->     9 points    2 ->     9 points
3 ->     8 points    3 ->     8 points
4-5 ->   7 points    4-5 ->   7 points
6-7 ->   6 points    6-7 ->   6 points
8-10 ->  5 points    8-10 ->  5 points
11-13 -> 4 points    11-13 -> 4 points
14-17 -> 3 points    14-17 -> 3 points
18-20 -> 2 points    18-20 -> 2 points
21+      1 point     21+      1 point
You end up with an overall standings looking like this (note, I left everyone in the order they are in now, so you can see more clearly who will move and by how much)

Code:
Name               Total Points     Puzzle Points     Song Points
dabigpig               68                46                22
Fractal_Monkey         63                34                29
09876                  53                19                34
Tasselfoot             55                26                29
Cosmic M               48                24                24
EDEdDNEdDYFaN          50                18                32
dore                   47                17                30
[HectoGtzMX]           37                17                20
KilikOdagawa           24                 0                24
Relambrien             24                14                10
Popmiester             26                16                10
ryanisadouche          29                10                10
Callipygian            13                 8                 5
travman301             12                12                 0
tha Guardians           7                 3                 4
RubiedCross             7                 7                 0
omegawhitemage          8                 8                 0
da_headhunter           7                 7                 0
Miyoshina               6                 6                 0
dooey100                4                 4                 0
Tasselfoot, EDEdDNEdDYFaN, Popmeister, ryanisadouche and omegawhitemage (three of whom seem largely to not be participating) are the only ones whose new score would move them up a rank, our leader stays in first, and only the cosmic M would get dropped out of the top 5.

If we change it over to this, the order in which you answer riddles, and the degree to which you try to improve your song rank become substantially more important, but the cost of outright missing a riddle round becomes more severe.

What do people think about that?
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Old 01-17-2008, 02:04 PM   #199
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

Go for it

Sup Johnieboy, I actually was wondering where you were the other day.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:35 PM   #200
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Default Re: Devonin's Critical Thinking Tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasselfoot View Post
also, my feelings on scoring, for a future 2nd CT tournament:
I agree that there should be more variation in the points you receive.

Also, I'm not really a fan off speed-based tournaments, but for this tournament it works quite well, except that there's no one set time that everyone will agree on for a new round too start.

A possible solution could be, in your first post, put a section where it says if you're ONLINE or OFFLINE. Then, once a day or so, you could set it too ONLINE ROUND ONE, etc. (when you're around the forums) and then, when participants feel they have adequate time to attempt the puzzle, they could pm you saying "send me the round".

Once you read this pm you would right away send the round, and then they would pm the answer once solved. This gives a timestamped start and end point for comparing everyones speed. Of course it would require a lot more committment on your part, but if you were willing i think it would work out good.

Oh and scores:



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Tier Points - 329 (Tier 4)
Best Non-AAA - Schmollbluk (rank 26)
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average rank - 109

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