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#1 |
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FFR Player
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Since I was young I've been observing and studying my surroundings. I've watched and analysed other people's actions and I've heard and interpreted their words. I've elaborated my own perception of what the world is like. It's not a complete one, for it stops at my simple, North American culture, but I believe it's vast enough for me to come to certain conclusions, all of which I came to on my own.
Now, by watching people behave in an environment where social interaction is primordial, I've managed to make associations between intelligence and morality. I've always considered both to be strongly related. It's a two way reasoning, really: Intelligence allows you to understand what's happening around you - It gives you judgement and perspective on certain things. It allows you to say "This is right" or "This is wrong", which is exactly where morality comes in. I define morality as something in which your "subconscious" (or whatever modern psychologists call it) is the main element. It will, without consciously making you think about it, stop you from doing something bad. The reason why you don't go out and kill someone is because a certain part of your personality (your subconscious) will stop you from doing so. In this sence, intelligence lets you gather data which will influence your subconscious. It will, indirectly, tell you how to behave. Now, my question is, and I'm asking this because I'm curious, is it possible that there's another explaination? Is it possible that morality is acquired without cognitive, conscious reasoning? Is it part of our genes, or is it something compeltely different?
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Truth lies in loneliness, When hope is long gone by -Blind Guardian, The Soulforged Image removed for size violation. |
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#2 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 66
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I wouldn't give intelligence and morality the same close relationship you imply here. I would say that we acquire our sense of morality from many sources, right? You don't have to be very intelligent to mimic your parent's or role model's sense of morality. However, intelligence plays a much larger role if you take all a logical (or at least a systematic and CRITICAL) approach to morality.
So, to answer your questions: 1. Yes, you can have morality without cognitive, conscious reasoning. (Some animals have a basic sense of morality) 2. Yes, morality is part of our genes. According to the theory of natural selection, a mother who doesn't murder her children is more likely to pass on her genes that someone who does. So I can see a primitive sense of morality being passed down from our parents. 3. Like a lot of controversial topics related to this and other things, my opinion is that most things aren't entirely genetic or enviromentalistic(<---made up word? ) |
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#3 | |
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FFR Player
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__________________
Truth lies in loneliness, When hope is long gone by -Blind Guardian, The Soulforged Image removed for size violation. |
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#4 |
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 166
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I think the two are separate, definitely, however I can't offer any actual evidence to support my opinions. So,,, I will just say this::
To the OP, I think your metro example is simply because you were unlucky enough to be stuck by people who happened to be severely lacking in both. |
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#5 |
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Very Grave Indeed
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The problem here is that you haven't clearly defined "morality" in a very useful way. Someone can have their own strict moral code, adhere to it in all cases, and treat it very seriously, and that code can be in direct opposition to your own.
I think the question you want to be asking is more akin to "Are intelligence and enlightened self-interest linked." Some of the most immoral (By some standards) people in history have been phenomenally intelligent. We have an entire "mad scientist" sub-class of people in popular culture who are incredibly intelligent, and as a result, have a very -poor- sense of right and wrong as the average person would define it. I think the more intelligent someone is, the more likely they are to have spent time to develop a very deep and specific set of moral values, but I see no reason to imply that those values are necessarily "good" by which I mean "Shared by the majority" |
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#6 | |
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FFR Player
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Maybe then, if you are very intelligent, you may be enclined to either tolerate and respect everyone or hate and be disgusted by everyone for not being as smart as you (of course there are some grey areas). Interesting point of view.
__________________
Truth lies in loneliness, When hope is long gone by -Blind Guardian, The Soulforged Image removed for size violation. |
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#7 |
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Very Grave Indeed
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I don't know, we as a species really like to accord status to "lesser" life forms based on degree rather than threshold.
We're generally okay with killing a chicken to eat it. We might want a cow to be killed humanely, we'd have serious moral trouble killing a dolphin, and we have strict laws against killing other humans, but we trample ants, and swat flies, and electrocute flying insects to death all the time. The usual difference in our mindset tends to be that some things are "higher up" than others, and at a certain lower level, we stop counting things as important. Along those lines, someone sufficiently ignorant to not be aware of those lines, or sufficiently intelligent to think themselves above such concerns could easily have a set of moral values in stark opposition to the ones you consider "standard" |
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#8 |
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FFR Player
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I think you've put your finger right on it. I don't have anything to answer to that and it looks pretty logical, so I guess it's pretty much true.
In other words, morality standards acquired by the subconscious do not in fact come from a certain degree of intelligence but moreso from the education and context in which the person was raised.
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Truth lies in loneliness, When hope is long gone by -Blind Guardian, The Soulforged Image removed for size violation. |
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#9 |
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Forum User
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intelligence and morals are two completely separate spheres. intelligence is your ability to solve problems. morals are influenced by your surroundings. if you're a drug lord, and you have to have a certain number of dealers to maximize your profit, you're going to want to keep that number. if you go over that number, you can solve it one of many ways: you can tell them they're fired, or you can kill them. the drug lord murders three of his dealers to maximize profit. intelligence is the ability to identify the problem and create a solution, which he did. however, drug dealing and murdering is completely immoral. this drug lord may have been raised in an environment where drug dealing and killing was an everyday experience, but at the same time, he was a genius.
take the IQ test for another example. on there is nothing to do with morals, but only problem solving. a serial killer could score 150, whereas someone with strong morals may only get 100. morality = environmental influence intelligence = biological |
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#10 | |
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FFR Player
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.I beleive we all estabilish our own "moral code" after socializing and moving around our environment. At the end of the day - we are mammals which means we are animals and therefore follow animal instincts on what we perceive as right or wrong.
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Reality is what you make it. |
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#11 |
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Little Chief Hare
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Intelligence in a structural sense, as in the sense of G, might have strong correlations with certain behaviors commonly regarded as moral. There could be any number of reasons for this however.
Also, some studies have been done on tensions between students and teachers when an IQ gap of more than 30 points exist. Tensions exist at a statistically higher rate between people of similar IQ and people of widely varying IQ. Last edited by Kilroy_x; 12-5-2007 at 12:49 PM.. |
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#12 | ||
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FFR Player
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 216
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I agree with justaguy. Unless you believe humans are born either good or evil, then morality is based solely on environment. Intelligence has more of a biological base but does have environmental influences. |
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#13 | ||
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Very Grave Indeed
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Hundreds of RPGs can't be wrong *grin* Seriously though, this is an important distinction. Given the terms intelligence and wisdom, and assuming we treat them as seperate and distinct, I think that morality is definately primarily a concept of wisdom. The question -then- becomes whether we can corrolate intelligence with wisdom.
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#14 |
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Little Chief Hare
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