Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums > General Discussion > Critical Thinking
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-10-2008, 10:52 PM   #81
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L0NEvvolf View Post
i hate being gay :'( i was raped as a kid and i think it influenced me as a kid
Locked until I convince the admin to give me the power to grant forum bans for this kind of idiotic nonsense.

Edit: Got a nice message on my profile wall in response to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LONEvvolf
y do u wanna ban me i was being serious i was raped as a kid and i think that influenced me to becoming how i am now im serious i wasnt playing around you wanna ban me for speaking on a issue i have had alot of trobble with and was speaking the truth fine i love this game so i dont know why you would want to ban me for being 100% honest
1/ Your post added nothing to the discussion at all. The latest trend in the thread has been an analysis of the degree to which homosexuality seems to be genetic versus environmental. Your post didn't address this at all except in the most superficial way.

2/ You're falling into the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. You're connecting a previous event in your life to your current state and blaming the one directly on the other, without showing any actual causal connection between the two.

3/ If you "became gay" because of an environmental stimulus, it seems unreasonable to me that you couldn't decide to do something about it, especially if you "hate" being gay. The only way it would be beyond your control would be if you were born that way, in which case, the rape didn't have anything to do with it.

4/ Whether you were or were not actually raped "I got raped and I think it turned me gay" is an incredibly loaded and problematic statement in general. It is indistinguishable from trolling and a small degree of flaming whether it is true or not, and there are -many- better ways you could have phrased it in general, especially on the internet, and ESPECIALLY in a critical thinking forum on the internet.

5/ "i hate being gay :'( i was raped as a kid and i think it influenced me as a kid" The horrific spelling and punctuation are almost enough on their own. Proper spelling, grammar and punctuation are mandatory for the forum in general, and especially so in CT

I'm unlocking the thread if just to give you a chance to respond to this in a meaningful and contributory way, without cluttering up my profile wall, and because even with all the above, if you were at least trying to be serious and contributory, I ought not to punish the rest of the discussion for it.

Last edited by devonin; 01-10-2008 at 11:55 PM..
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2008, 01:40 AM   #82
Kilroy_x
Little Chief Hare
FFR Veteran
 
Kilroy_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Age: 32
Posts: 783
Send a message via AIM to Kilroy_x
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post
The only way it would be beyond your control would be if you were born that way
Nonsense. There are any number of superficially apparent, irreversible environmentally caused human states or attributes.

Quote:
Proper spelling, grammar and punctuation are mandatory for the forum in general, and especially so in CT
WHY!!? How is a focus on this anything other than a fallacious argument ad vernacular?
Kilroy_x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2008, 01:52 AM   #83
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilroy_x View Post
Nonsense. There are any number of superficially apparent, irreversible environmentally caused human states or attributes.
That's as may be, but I don't think that "Something happened to make me this way, but nothing else can happen to change it" is a very strong argument unless you -also- describe the ways in which that change is in fact somehow permanant and irreversable. Just saying so, doesn't make it so.

Quote:
WHY!!? How is a focus on this anything other than a fallacious argument ad vernacular?
Because those are the rules of this forum as laid down by its administration, and whether individual users agree with it or not, they're the rules, and they need to be followed.

I'm sure Tasselfoot is perfectly happy to hear your objections to the 'spelling and grammar are mandatory' rule that has been applied to the entire forum.
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2008, 11:52 PM   #84
Bynary Fission
Resident One-Hander
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 27
Posts: 2,397
Send a message via AIM to Bynary Fission Send a message via Skype™ to Bynary Fission
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Homosexuality, by all accounts, is hard-wired into gay individuals. It isn't learned. While some creatures can be genetically changed (This was done with fruit flies to make them gay) to make them homosexual, humans don't 'learn' to be gay. You're either born gay or you aren't. Having gay parents doesn't make you gay (See http://www.colage.org/programs/2ndgen/faq.htm). Homosexuality has been looked upon negatively over the years until recently (In some areas it's still illegal, even punishable by death). But it's nothing to be ashamed of. I am not gay, I am a heterosexual. But being straight does not put me over a homosexual. While some people hate gays, especially conservative Christians, they are homophobic fools who probably exude holier-than-thou attitudes.

Even external factors don't change your sexual orientation. Being around gay individuals doesn't make you gay. I have had gay friends, never made me gay or even want to wonder what it is like to be gay. It is ok to question yourself, wonder who you are. Some self-proclaimed homosexuals may not actually be completely gay, if at all.

Some people want to undo their homosexuality, or 'cure' it. People can do things like 'pray the gay away' and attend special seminars to 'rid' you of your homosexuality. Some who are dedicated may actually do it. I cannot say for sure. But it is not a disease nor is it a sin. Homosexuality has existed for thousands of years (It was popular among the samurai most notably), and will continue to do so. Homosexuality is a hard-wired trait that some people are born with. I have never seen a documented case where people suddenly became gay or bisexual. There may be, but I can't say for sure. But to date, I've never seen such a thing.

~Bynary Fission
Bynary Fission is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 12:20 AM   #85
gnr61
FFR Simfile Author
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
gnr61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: TOKYO STYLE SPEEDCORE, ohio
Age: 30
Posts: 7,251
Send a message via AIM to gnr61
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bynary Fission View Post
Homosexuality, by all accounts, is hard-wired into gay individuals. It isn't learned.
Prove it.

All of your argument seems to have no scientific basis, but rather reads as sort of preachy and generalizing. This discussion thus far has been mainly about the genetic and environmental potential causes for homosexuality in humans. To say that someone is either born gay or straight is a pretty bold claim to make, particularly based on personal experience alone. You say that you haven't encountered such a case so far in your life that may have been influenced to be gay as a result of environmental causes.

You are not born complete with a gender identity. This is formed by numerous developmental and environmental factors such as the way you are raised by your parents and interact with your peers. From your interactions your identity develops. You learn what it means to be a male or a female, and the way you are brought up greatly affects your gender identity and potentially your sexual orientation.

There are biological factors indeed, but the environmental causes outweigh them. I'm not saying homosexuality is a choice, but that it is originated from a number of factors, not simply biology.
__________________
squirrel--it's whats for dinner.
gnr61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 12:54 AM   #86
Bynary Fission
Resident One-Hander
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 27
Posts: 2,397
Send a message via AIM to Bynary Fission Send a message via Skype™ to Bynary Fission
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnr61 View Post

You are not born complete with a gender identity. This is formed by numerous developmental and environmental factors such as the way you are raised by your parents and interact with your peers. From your interactions your identity develops. You learn what it means to be a male or a female, and the way you are brought up greatly affects your gender identity and potentially your sexual orientation.
I'm starting to get sick of you, really. I don't see YOU proving that statement. You tell me I have to prove my statement, which contradicts yours. I don't see you listing any resources. I don't see you proving it. What you are doing is hypocritical, and that makes you look like an idiot.

My post is mainly an opinion, along with some facts thrown in. But, just as I expected, you only pay attention to the one part that I say without a source. Here, read these. All this supports that statement.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...689843,00.html

One poster in there lists a bunch of extra sources supporting my answer, as well as many others.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...AAI0Do6&show=7

This post supports my fruit fly statement.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...cience19m.html

Is that enough for you? I will back up any statement I make, because I study and read into what I post about. The previous discussion was an exception. But I still believe it, for my own reasons.

~Bynary Fission
Bynary Fission is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 01:20 AM   #87
Kilroy_x
Little Chief Hare
FFR Veteran
 
Kilroy_x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Age: 32
Posts: 783
Send a message via AIM to Kilroy_x
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnr61 View Post
You are not born complete with a gender identity.
1. Gender identity doesn't seem to have anything to do with sexual orientation
2. Gender identity is tied quite neatly to the quantity of SOM neurons in the BSTc, which is located within the limbic system. It would be beyond bizarre if social factors were responsible for that particular brain structure. The claim is so ridiculous in fact that it calls into question any other claim you might make.
Kilroy_x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 03:23 AM   #88
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Eric: Don't troll
Bynary: Don't feed the trolls
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2008, 08:47 PM   #89
poulice
FFR Veteran
FFR Veteran
 
poulice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 65
Cool Re: Homosexuality.

ok let start whit this, i'm gay.

For those thinking that it is a choice, i can assure you that it is not. I don't believe it was my environnement that made me gay because i got the same attention and the same environnement as my brother. A fact that seems to support this is a identical twin study that shows that if one twin is gay, the other will probably be too.

As for the whole thing about changing the sexuality of someone, it cannot be done. Some gay men who have claimed to change orientation by going to a shrink or a religious place say that they are happy but few are. In one point in mostly every gay persons life, there try to change there orientation, mostly when they first find out that they are gay.

And finaly the hereditary theory. I read on a website somewhere that in the time of homosapiens, that the gay people acted as guards for the others. They did not have kids like the others so they took care of everyones else's kids. It sounds weird but it makes sense. Somehow, we never lost the "homosexual gene".

I know this might seem bias to some becose i would be "defending myself" but those are all things i found on credible web sites.

And just for those wondering, i act just like you, the fact that someone is gay should not segregate them from the other people and only a very small percent of the gay population is a steriotype, i'm not btw.

i hope this clears up some stuff =D
poulice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2008, 11:43 PM   #90
BigBoss37
Veteran Member
FFR Veteran
 
BigBoss37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,099
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Why is this being discussed on FFR?? I wonder if the thread starter thinks that the FFR population is really smart enough to understand why people are born homosexual...
BigBoss37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 02:42 AM   #91
Bynary Fission
Resident One-Hander
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 27
Posts: 2,397
Send a message via AIM to Bynary Fission Send a message via Skype™ to Bynary Fission
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoss37 View Post
Why is this being discussed on FFR?? I wonder if the thread starter thinks that the FFR population is really smart enough to understand why people are born homosexual...
Most aren't...except for here. Most people in the CT forum are intelligent enough to understand the topic..though some claim to but don't. It's quite easy to pick out the fakers.



~Bynary Fission
Bynary Fission is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 03:19 AM   #92
foilman8805
smoke wheat hail satin
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
foilman8805's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LA baby
Age: 32
Posts: 5,703
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Strange as it is, it seems there must be a purpose for homosexuality.

Therein lies the question though. What is the purpose of homosexuality? This isn't said to be rude, or derogatory - I just take it in juxtaposition with heterosexuality which has a purpose - procreation.

As long as humans have been around they have been evolving, and adapting to better suit their environments, but what kind of environment dictates homosexuality where procreation is impossible? Like I said earlier, there is no purpose for homosexuality...no genetic benefit, yet it still exists. If that was the case, don't you think the process of evolution would slowly eliminate that trait from our gene pool, and at least by this point in our existence, it would be fairly uncommon?

Well, even Darwin can't explain this one. It's one of those questions that can't be answered - because in my personal opinion, there are things we are not allowed to know yet.

But still, since its inclusion in the gene pool is consistent, and it doesn't seem to be a decreasing trend - there must be a reason for it.

It just may be a reason we can't fully comprehend (or want to accept). Perhaps it is bestowed upon an individual as a life lesson from the higher powers, one that teaches personal acceptance, or perhaps it's even a lesson for those who are not homosexual: as a lesson of accepting those who are not like your heterosexual self that you meet in life.

Also, as an addition, I know a set of biological twins that are both homosexual, and I also know another separate set of biological twins where one is heterosexual and the other is a homosexual. Kind of peculiar.

Last edited by foilman8805; 01-17-2008 at 04:27 AM..
foilman8805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 07:47 AM   #93
poulice
FFR Veteran
FFR Veteran
 
poulice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 65
Post Re: Homosexuality.

Maybe that provreation isen't the only thing the world needed a long time ago. They needed hunters, guards, many more roles than parents. Maybe since homosexuals would not be occupied with such things, they would make good guards, or hunters.

Just becose we don't understand the purpose of something differant does not mean we should automaticly think it to be wrong, or disgusting, even if a heterosexual would never want to sleep with the same sex, he can still find it to be something of beuty.

If we bases everything of the reasons we have today, we would have no need for developpement. Like life, for exemple. The whole point in life is to stay alive. But to do that, you need to eat, you need to defend yourself (in the prehistoric age anyway), you also need to communicate, you need to have a shelter, etc. There is more then just procreation.

For now most of the science revolving homosexuality is either very bias or very inconclusive. What we really need to do it to just accepte the fact that people are differant. And if they don't want to, we should not force people to be okay with gays, we need to make them change there minds on there own.
poulice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 09:09 AM   #94
atalkingcow
FFR Player
 
atalkingcow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 166
Default Re: Homosexuality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poulice View Post
Maybe that provreation isen't the only thing the world needed a long time ago. They needed hunters, guards, many more roles than parents. Maybe since homosexuals would not be occupied with such things, they would make good guards, or hunters.

Just becose we don't understand the purpose of something differant does not mean we should automaticly think it to be wrong, or disgusting, even if a heterosexual would never want to sleep with the same sex, he can still find it to be something of beuty.

If we bases everything of the reasons we have today, we would have no need for developpement. Like life, for exemple. The whole point in life is to stay alive. But to do that, you need to eat, you need to defend yourself (in the prehistoric age anyway), you also need to communicate, you need to have a shelter, etc. There is more then just procreation.

For now most of the science revolving homosexuality is either very bias or very inconclusive. What we really need to do it to just accepte the fact that people are differant. And if they don't want to, we should not force people to be okay with gays, we need to make them change there minds on there own.

While I agree with the last paragraph... Not everything in human evolution has been -created/evolved/left there- for an obvious reason. (no examples offhand.)
While the thought that homosexuals would have been used as laborers due to the complete lack of reproductive ability is intruiging (sp?), it seems to me that it would have been simpler and more effective to create asexuals instead. (asexuals being those who simply feel no urge/need/desire to have sex with anyone or anything in the first place.)

I would actually like to see the link(s) to the website that you read that guard theory on, if you can find it and post it.


Oh, welcome to CT, oh ye of little posts! ^^
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by aTalkingCow;
Do you have any idea how hard it is to type up a course on a tiny ass netbook?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama;
Jackass
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex :) View Post
I'm setting up camp in my closet (it's suprisingly comfy in there!).
atalkingcow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 12:28 PM   #95
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: Homosexuality.

You can make instead, a pretty strong claim that at least bisexuality is quite useful as a trait to develop genetically. The drive to engage in sexual activity exists all the time. It is right alongside being hungry and thirsty and tired, as urges that the body needs fulfilling on at least a semi-regular basis.

During all the periods of history before a reliable method of birth control, this could be a problem if your population was already straining your resources, since lots of sex tends to result in lots of babies.

However, if some reasonable subsection of your population can get sexual satisfaction just as easily from members of the same sex, this can help your population control, since when it is in your vested interest to not grow the population, you don't end up having to resort to forced celibacy, or forced abandonment of newborns.

It also seems to me that if bisexuality is a genetic trait, that if it develops by say, the introduction of various hormones or chemicals, that it is easy enough to see how an excess of such things could result in homosexuality. I utterly don't have the biology background to make such a suggestion in any kind of official way, but if you're looking for a "good reason" for homosexuality to exist, "It is the logical extension of the good reason for bisexuality to exist" seems like a somewhat reasonable way to look at it.
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 11:29 PM   #96
poulice
FFR Veteran
FFR Veteran
 
poulice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 65
Post Re: Homosexuality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atalkingcow View Post
I would actually like to see the link(s) to the website that you read that guard theory on, if you can find it and post it.
Man i'm kinda mad becose i can't seem to find the site where i read it anywhere and that makes me look kinda bad . But believe me it was a credible site, it wasen't something like wikipedia. I had read it a long time ago when i was still having trouble ajusting with me being gay (you know self acceptence). I remember i was looking for an answer why i was gay and i found that site and it made me kinda proud because i like when things have reasons.

But on the subject i actually believe the guard theory that i read, but adding asexuality and bisexuality into the picture is interesting. Maybe that could disprove the theory i read, or add too it. Now this is all juste links togheter but more to it. Now i know for a fact that if when you have sexual intercourse, you're bodie releases certain hormones, but more importantly, some nerotransmitters. Those nerotransmeters gives you a feeling of "accomplishment" as a kind of "reward". The same ones are also released when you do things that insure your survival, like eating. Maybe there is more to sexual intercourse than just the procreation part. Like certain animals like dolphens have sex for pleasure as well as for procreation.

To me, heterosexual intercourse has two purposes, for pleasure and procreation. The thing that makes homosexuality so "wrong" in society today is that it takes away the procreation part. I find that a little weird becose if someone wheres a condom or does any other contraceptives, it does the same thing. As for the origine of homosexuality, i'm sticking with my guard theory or the theory of a chemecal imbalance in the brain. Becose nobody is one hundred percent straite, gay or bisexual. Think of it as a scale of 1 to 100. If you're straite you have a smaller number, not neccesaraly 1 thought. You can be gay and not a a 100 and you can be bi but not be a 50. (here is the link for my info on this http://www.io.com/~wwwomen/queer/amigay.html i know it's a site for women but it still works). I think that just how much of the chemicals are imbalenced is the reason where you are going to be on the spectrum. Also maybe asexuals are the result of a lack of chemicals.

Although, if i where to say that it is in fact the environnements and the was a child was raised that was responsable for homosexuality, then that raises another question, why does some people who have the same environment and upbringning grow up to have differant sexual oriantations? I like to take a look at both sides of the argument but i still have to say that this is not the reason.

Well this is getting kinda long, so i'll end with saying that we should not argue with differant theories, because they cannot be proven. We should merely present them and let the readers decide which ones that they find the most logical with their own personal knowledge and comprehention.
poulice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 04:50 PM   #97
stev019
Hi-Speed
FFR Veteran
 
stev019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Age: 29
Posts: 10
Default Re: Homosexuality.

What's wrong with homosexuality... why does your so-called "faith" state it as "incorrect" or "wrong"... People can love who ever they want to... they will not go to "hell" because they made a life decision.
stev019 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 04:51 PM   #98
stev019
Hi-Speed
FFR Veteran
 
stev019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Age: 29
Posts: 10
Default Re: Homosexuality.

For a gay man to go "straight"... he would have to be bisexual and then change his preference from men to women thanks to society and the brainwashing of catholic/christian churches.
stev019 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 05:02 PM   #99
stev019
Hi-Speed
FFR Veteran
 
stev019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Age: 29
Posts: 10
Default Re: Homosexuality.

i wrote this without reading any posts except for the thread starter... And i did a horrible job at interpreting what he said. Apologies. But I am very very angry at churches lately based on the "changing" of ones sexual preference. In my view... You are just born the way you are... and no one should ever tell you that you are wrong
stev019 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 05:10 PM   #100
ARROWUP
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
ARROWUP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A house.
Age: 30
Posts: 15
Send a message via MSN to ARROWUP
Default Re: Homosexuality.

To be honest, homosexuality has 0% to do with religion. I wonder how it even became involved in the first place. Why do people decide to include delusion with preference? Do what you want, if you can't, move out of America. Because you'll be judged instantly here in the states thanks to conformist brainwashing evangelicals and private corporations.
ARROWUP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution