Old 03-14-2004, 12:03 AM   #1
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What the hell is Music Theory, anyway?

I considered putting this in Chit Chat, but then I thought it might be complicated and worth a good description and discussion.

I tried to take a class on it in Band Camp, but instead I got a Jazz class (which kicked ass, so its all good).
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:05 AM   #2
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i would think, and this would be kinda cool, that it would be about why certain music was popular at different times...that would tie into psychology a little too
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:09 AM   #3
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Yeah, I don't know if this is right, but this is kind of how I explained it earlier today at my Science Olympiad competition (Were going to state, woot):

Basically, when you hit something, it causes a vibration, which can vary depending on the force of the hit, material, etc. The wavelengths produced can vary from large, spread out wavelengths, which produces a low tone, or small close together wavelengths porducing a high tone. When these vibrations reach your eardrum, your eardrum reacts to the vibration, and sends the data to your brain. This makes you hear the sound.

I'm pretty sure that was right, lol. Eardrum thing is pretty vague though :P.
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:11 AM   #4
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that isnt what i would expect the class to be about at all...then again i dont really know
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:22 AM   #5
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Isn't music theory the study of rhythms in music? Like notes and counting and everything besides how to play the instrument?.... I thought that this was music theory.
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:27 AM   #6
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Music theory is the basics of Music such as Time Frames, key signatures, scales, etc. Basically, it teaches you how to write music.
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:33 AM   #7
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In Music theory also works with the Circle of Fifths, which is the concept of keys signatures (as Jewpin set out already). The Circle of Fifths has many patters that all interlock. There is also the patterns that Major and Minor keys follow, but learning to distinguish them, disonance, harmonies, chords, and rhythms are all part of music theory.
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:44 AM   #8
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Ah yes the circle of fifths...my band director tried to explain that in class. Everyone had no idea what they were talking about. He was trying to teach us how to memorize scales, but most have already memorized it. A good 30 mins of class time and my time wasted.
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Old 03-14-2004, 01:48 AM   #9
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And modes are important!

I ii iii IV V7 vi viiº
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Old 03-14-2004, 01:56 AM   #10
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music theory is the study of the composition of music... (you learn all the rules of writing music and then learn how to break them) i used to love that class. and I ii iii IV V vi and viiº arent modes, they are major scale degrees
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Old 03-14-2004, 02:10 AM   #11
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Modes are like dorian...
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Old 03-14-2004, 02:43 AM   #12
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there are 7 modes (based off the C major scale)... Ionian (major), Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian (minor), and Locrian... there built starting on a different scale degree of the scale.. which is why Ionian is major.. starts on C... spells out a major scale, same with Aeolian and why its minor, because it starts on the 6th degree it spells out the natural form of the minor.
this is just a little tutorial... there of course more, but just a quick over view of what i learned in my theory 1 class in college.

but in high school we didnt even get into modes, just because to my understanding they arent really used in satb/4 part writing. i believe theyre mostly used by guitar players... i could be wrong on that though.

edit: Oh yeah, and what markaveli was talking about would go along with a music history class sort of... we had a class that did just that in high school called music survey, which is also an awesome class to take if they offer something like that. it doesnt get too psychological, but it goes along with the histpry aspect of it more than theory would.
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Old 03-15-2004, 11:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristia
there are 7 modes (based off the C major scale)... Ionian (major), Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian (minor), and Locrian... there built starting on a different scale degree of the scale.. which is why Ionian is major.. starts on C... spells out a major scale, same with Aeolian and why its minor, because it starts on the 6th degree it spells out the natural form of the minor.
this is just a little tutorial... there of course more, but just a quick over view of what i learned in my theory 1 class in college.
Oh my, I do believe I just went cross-eyed.
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Old 03-15-2004, 11:51 PM   #14
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It's not that complicated really.
Basically it's the scale starting on different pitches of the scale
So the D Dorian scale is
DEFGABCD
So dorian is minor, but also dominant, because the D major scale is DEF#GABC#D---so it has the flat 3rd and flat 7th

But another cool thing is the way chords are made up.
I mean how a major triad is a major third, then a minor third
and a minor triad is a minor third, then a major third
and augmented is major 3rd, major 3rd
and diminished is minor 3rd minor 3rd.
Et cetera, etc.
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Old 03-16-2004, 12:18 AM   #15
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ORRR, I think I'll just take Jazz again next Band Camp....
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Old 03-16-2004, 12:25 AM   #16
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hteory is great when explained by someone who really knows what there talking about, Omeginatros, it only looks confusing when u try to figure it out without all the pieces like whats handed to you right here in this therad, bits n pieces though jazz is cool too

and the chord thing... yea, thats the whole point :-p if they werent built like that, ie: major is major third and a minor third... it would just be either a bunch of notes thrown on the page or one kind of chord... major minor augmented and diminished are just the way to categorize them.
edit : and if im right, dorian isnt minor... it starts on the second scale degree, and the ii chord is minor, but dorian is just not major... if i knew where my theory notebook from last semester was right now, i would bust out the tetra chords and figure it out just incase it was either the melodic or harmonic form of the minor, but that still doesnt make sense i dont think because they would have to start on the sixth scale degree anyway.... i think. i wish i knew where that notebook was.
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Old 03-16-2004, 05:46 AM   #17
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None of which you need to know in order to write music. Just make what feels right to you and don't worry about following any rules. As long as it sounds ok, it's mission accomplished.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:12 AM   #18
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I think this is digressing more into a who knows the most theory than a real discussion on what music theory is. Music Theory is an attempt to explain why music works. A very technical, scientific look at music, and that is all it is. I don’t consider it a real working explanation, as it is doesn’t seem to convey the reasoning why music can so powerfully convey thoughts and emotions, which is in essence what music truly is, an expression of emotion beyond words.

A lot of what I have read is surface level retention of a theory class someone has sat in, and although I commend you on your knowledge, you are all missing the point, which is music theory is only part of what is music. The other critical ingredient is tension. Tension is a far more important aspect of music that gets overlooked by scales and modes because tension is much more abstract and well, you just KNOW.

I feel the same way about music theory as I do about people who just “play” an instrument. When it comes down to it, stripped down, you can get someone and drill them long enough and they can play some of the most difficult piano pieces ever written. Then ask them to write something and they can’t. I don’t believe you can understand music by just learning theory.

Classical music and trance operate on the same basic principles, but one has far more theory involved than the other, yet a classical piece can move you just as well as a trance song, so then theory must not to be the critical player involved. What makes movie soundtracks powerful? Have someone want to charge into battle? Dance their brains out at a rave?

Many electronic artists don’t know much theory, but yet can create powerful and moving pieces. Why is that? A DJ set is the purest form of tension. The “composition” is made up of complete songs, so by putting together a good set all you are concentrating on is the proper build up and release of tension. You can hear periodic rise and falls, just like a classical piece. Theory explains what music is, but without tension you would only have a bunch of notes.

Here is a good example…

Play any scale but leave out the last note. Something feels incomplete, and you are willed to finish it. You are waiting for it to finish and it hasn’t yet. You get this weird feeling inside... Finally hit the final note. That was the build up and release of tension.

Or listen to that one solo, you know, where the band stops and the soloist hangs on that note forever.. Theory isn't what is making that impact you, tension is..

I hope I have made at least some sense... It is generally hard for me to discuss music and have people understand me... plus it has been a very long night.
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:07 AM   #19
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the only reason i got into modes and such was because it was brought up, and better to have correct information then not, but i agree with a lot of what spook said on this. The only thing is theory isn't what makes the music powerful, its the sound, or like was said, the tension. Theory is just a guideline to tell you what should invoke those feelings in people... or what combinations of notes would make those tensions. I cant get into electronic music because i know nothing about it. Like with the scale, the tension is what you hear, the theory would be how it looks on paper, or just that interval seperated from the rest of the scale. It wont tell you why it sounds that way, but rather show you what that sound looks like for when you want to use it again.

I also agree that there really shouldnt be any set rules, like was mentioned earlier, and that it shouldnt matter. And it really doesnt, well it does and doesnt at the same time. Music should just be what you want it to be, as long as your happy with your own result. Theory comes into that when people started to see patterns of what did and didnt work. thats why its called theory, its someones take on what should and shouldnt be done. the mistake came when they started calling these theories rules, but there really not. you learn them all to break them. It just lets you know when what would work in most situations. Its not meant to be fallowed exactly, (or else we would have a bunch of very blan and boring music, that all kinda sounds exactly the same, nor would we have advancements in music) but more or less there for when you need it. one example of that would be like... the V7 chord... perfect example.. when music was first beginning to be written down, no way... this chord didnt even exist, and now its an avid part of composition. It was just something someone thought might work, so they added that extra interval on to that chord and poof, the jazz chord was born. Another perfect example of breaking everyone of these rules is most 20th century music, they dont even write in some cases on a conventional staff... its screwy stuff.

the point is, Its just a theory, otherwise it wouldnt be called so. by all means write what you like, thats the music part, the theory part is just what goes on the paper, and more correctly the composition part.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:33 PM   #20
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Nice points, you two.
I agree, for the most part.
Many times I have tried writing songs using every bit of technical knowledge I know, but they don't turn out good. I just try to follow the rules, but it just ends up plain-sounding.

Quote:
one example of that would be like... the V7 chord... perfect example.. when music was first beginning to be written down, no way... this chord didnt even exist, and now its an avid part of composition. It was just something someone thought might work, so they added that extra interval on to that chord and poof, the jazz chord was born.
Well, I don't know how often it was used, but that chord is a naturally occuring chord in the major scale. So it wasn't just invented for jazz. There are ways to use it that sound very classical, as well.
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