Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums > General Discussion > Critical Thinking

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-11-2007, 04:26 PM   #1
chunky_cheese
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
chunky_cheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Age: 29
Posts: 1,736
Default Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

"How does religion in any form affect our culture, and that of those around us? What role do symbols and rituals play?"

In many places around the world, religion creates a cultural structure, and from there personal beliefs evolve it into what it is. I believe, that when these personal beliefs are brought together by many people, a common way of life is formed. Thus bringing light to the significance of religion, in any form, to how people live their lives. Culture and religion can be affected by technological, economic, racial, political and environmental factors; however the common ideals and morals of the group, both formed and strengthened by religion are what solidify a culture.

Symbols and Rituals keep these ideas alive, and bring pride to people. They offer belonging and importance, and stand as a mark of what a religion or culture stands for. Often times a religious symbol can almost define a culture, such as in the worship of a symbolic statue or deity, and from there rituals are formed.

Last edited by chunky_cheese; 11-11-2007 at 04:34 PM..
chunky_cheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2007, 07:20 PM   #2
Master_of_the_Faster
FFR Player
 
Master_of_the_Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Storm Sanctuary!
Posts: 255
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Religion is interesting whan you think about history. For example, chemistry came from mummification, which took place since the Egyptians believed in their pharoah as a god that needed a proper burial. Honestly, I don't think anyone has enough knowledge to answer the question as to what religious symbols and rituals affect except for how one feels toward himself/herself, technological advances, and violence. For example, if many people thought of you as a god or a king and you believed it, I'm sure you would be much happier than otherwise. Sometimes, religion causes people act as if they are better than someone else or that they are closer to reaching something significant in their life (I really hate this). The violence aspect is kind of obvious when you see religious wars taking place over beliefs that clash against each other (Iraq). Then there's me, a person drained of most religious influences instead of a combination of all cultures. I want to keep happiness and belief as a part of religion, but I don't like the violence. As a result, I believe that all beliefs are possible unless proven otherwise, that logic helps unite peaceful people, and that with individuality, one can choose to be logical or illogical (there isn't really a such thing as "right", "wrong", or "normal").

Perhaps many of you have read over my religious posts and say to yourself "why does that fool always talk about individuality?" Of course, I could care less about religion if people didn't fight over it, but since that's not the case, that's why I talk about individuality. You look back at all those cool technological advances like chemistry, math, astronomy, etc. but imagine if everyone shared one faith or were completely tolerant of each other's faith instead of the intolerance that still exists in our world today. We might have had flying cars or something cool by now.

Last edited by Master_of_the_Faster; 11-11-2007 at 07:25 PM..
Master_of_the_Faster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 11:12 PM   #3
uselessaccount
FFR Player
 
uselessaccount's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,580
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Master_of_the_Faster, ironic as it seem, intolerance for others is in a way essential. If you were asking everyone to tolerate each other, then you in a way are not tolerating them (kind of a weird paradoxical thing, huh?). But even so, that wouldn't make you wrong. Also, toleration for all isn't right either. For example in the Civil rights movement, minorities obviously shouldn't have had to tolerate the racism. By not tolerating racism, more general equality is given, but then again the racists are now a minority and aren't tolerated (Again, not a bad thing). But then when it comes to more complicated things like abortion, which side should be chosen? Because remember, allowing abortion doesn't mean tolerating everyones rights, it gives rights to one minority and takes away from the key beliefs of others. I might have gone a bit off tangent... but hopefully some of the things I said are somewhat insightful haha.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by midare View Post
hamburger + stepmania = well done
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lain_Iwakura View Post
dynamo happens
just like aids
uselessaccount is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2007, 01:11 AM   #4
Master_of_the_Faster
FFR Player
 
Master_of_the_Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Storm Sanctuary!
Posts: 255
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by uselessaccount View Post
Master_of_the_Faster, ironic as it seem, intolerance for others is in a way essential. If you were asking everyone to tolerate each other, then you in a way are not tolerating them (kind of a weird paradoxical thing, huh?). But even so, that wouldn't make you wrong. Also, toleration for all isn't right either. For example in the Civil rights movement, minorities obviously shouldn't have had to tolerate the racism. By not tolerating racism, more general equality is given, but then again the racists are now a minority and aren't tolerated (Again, not a bad thing). But then when it comes to more complicated things like abortion, which side should be chosen? Because remember, allowing abortion doesn't mean tolerating everyones rights, it gives rights to one minority and takes away from the key beliefs of others. I might have gone a bit off tangent... but hopefully some of the things I said are somewhat insightful haha.
As much as I agree with your statements, let us not forget that we are talking about Religion and not just intolerance in general. When it comes down to religion, for the most part, intolerance cannot be a good thing.
Master_of_the_Faster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2007, 04:48 PM   #5
Zythus
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by uselessaccount View Post
Master_of_the_Faster, ironic as it seem, intolerance for others is in a way essential. If you were asking everyone to tolerate each other, then you in a way are not tolerating them (kind of a weird paradoxical thing, huh?). But even so, that wouldn't make you wrong. Also, toleration for all isn't right either. For example in the Civil rights movement, minorities obviously shouldn't have had to tolerate the racism. By not tolerating racism, more general equality is given, but then again the racists are now a minority and aren't tolerated (Again, not a bad thing). But then when it comes to more complicated things like abortion, which side should be chosen? Because remember, allowing abortion doesn't mean tolerating everyones rights, it gives rights to one minority and takes away from the key beliefs of others. I might have gone a bit off tangent... but hopefully some of the things I said are somewhat insightful haha.
I see luminosity in your words. and @ Master of faster, It does very much relate to religion. With intolerance comes the separate and many assortment of religions, organized/paradox/etc. If we were tolerant, there would've been only one and single religion which everyone can somehow have a mutual agreement upon.*sigh*....the wishful thinking...

As my opinion, it is somewhat apparent that religion has become a thing of the past. We are constantly moving away from religion as an answer to our issues. Unlike the era of liminality of religion where they took religion as the single way of life, the vitality that brings meaning to our very existence, we are in the duration of evolution, to take responsible to stand up without our "kind celestial being". However, religion do exist strongly too in our contemporary society. India and Israel for example is on the verge of civil war due to the dispersive religious beliefs accumulated there. It also exist strongly as a political factor. Unfortunately, my memory is a bit blank right now, but I recall that prime minister of Canada, Stephen Harper has made a speech that God told him to do these sorts of things, justifying his actions with religion. Also, the past Provincial election in Ontario , Canada, the Conservative party used "funding for religious Schools" as a claim to get elected which in turn failed BADLY. To sum it up, I believe that religion may not entirely or be a part of culture, but we certainly love to take advantage of it and harness it in our own egotistical decisions.
Zythus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2007, 09:30 PM   #6
coldsunlight
FFR Player
 
coldsunlight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5
Talking Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Religions are parts of cultures. Each culture has its own religion and through those religions, we can somehow understand a part of culture from what its belief was built up. And that's why religions' conflicts don't happen everywhere but just in some certain areas.
Since there are nothing right, wrong, normal, or abnormal, religions can't be judged as right or wrong either.
Religions, in fact, stand important roles in our life. Or let just use the word "faith" instead. We choose what we believe is better. I guess at first, religions started from what people couldn't explain. Like when people didn't know where wind was from, they explained it as a god, hence, sometimes they said the god of wind destroyed their place because he got angry. And that evolve in a more serious part of life that somewhat become religions. In many cases, religions help people survive, and in other cases, religions' conflicts cause wars (Ireland, Middle East countries). Without religions, many people cannot live. They cannot sustain from the awful events happening everyday, they cannot put aside a sorrow such as somebody's death. The important thing is whether we can combine faith with a logical mind or with an unconscious passionated hearts.

well, we probably should call uselessacount 's idea of tolerating is the law of the conservation of toleration.
coldsunlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2007, 09:41 PM   #7
Zythus
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsunlight View Post
Without religions, many people cannot live.
With that brings up another big question. In the inquisition era in the 1300's,
philosophers had already started upon the concept " did god create humans or humans created god?" This question still remains today, but what I find significant is that how we can justify the existence, our very life with an unstable gamble of which came first, god or human.

About religion roots coming from culture, how do you describe assimilation?
Does being multicultural mean that we have conflicts 24/7?
Zythus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2007, 09:58 PM   #8
coldsunlight
FFR Player
 
coldsunlight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

let say Mr.A is in a desert, dying. Mr.B is lying next to Mr.A. Mr.A thinks about gods, that gods will help him and no matter what happens, he will still survive. Mr.B, with quite a logical mind, thinks that he cannot live without food and water and it's obvious that he is unable to find any ocular resources. Who do you think is more likely to live?
Anyway, I have seen several people cannot stop talking about gods.
-----
Not every religions have conflicts with each others to cause wars. Religions with certain way of human manipulating will help people live better.
__________________
I am dust in the wind, I am coldsunlight. (but just don't ask me what coldsunlight is, ok?)
coldsunlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2007, 10:03 PM   #9
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsunlight
Since there are nothing right, wrong, normal, or abnormal, religions can't be judged as right or wrong either.
I think you'll find that most religions disagree with this assertion. There are plenty of things that are right, wrong, normal or abnormal. You can't claim subjectivity of everything, or everything is completely random and meaningless, so the discussion becomes moot.

Quote:
Without religions, many people cannot live. They cannot sustain from the awful events happening everyday, they cannot put aside a sorrow such as somebody's death.
So you're saying that religion is a crutch for the weak who can't find meaning in their own existance, and need there to be something else to tell them why their life has meaning? That doesn't sound like a positive thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zythus
In the inquisition era in the 1300's, philosophers had already started upon the concept " did god create humans or humans created god?"
Just a note or two. The Episcopal inquisition was the 1100s, the Spanish Inquisition was the late 1400s/early 1500s, and the concept of "God created man or man created God" dates back to at least Aristotle (340s BC) (Is it right because the Gods will it, or do the Gods will it because it is right?)

Quote:
but what I find significant is that how we can justify the existence, our very life with an unstable gamble of which came first, god or human.
What you're really saying here is that you find it interesting that people can believe in a God without proof for the existance of that God, and while that is certainly an interesting question, it isn't quite the question you seem to think you were asking. A lot of people are (Sounds so perjorative but it isn't really) sufficiently weak-willed that they can't bear the thought of being solely and individually responsible for their actions.

By believeing that they will be rewarded when they do the right thing in the face of a desire to do something else, or that other people will get punished for doing bad things to them, it makes it much easier for them to get through their life. If you are special, and have your own special and unique meaning and purpose, and everyone who wrongs you, when you are too weak to stop them, will get eternal punishment, suddenly life is a lot easier to cope with.

Quote:
Does being multicultural mean that we have conflicts 24/7?
Now -this- is a MUCH better question, and one that I think really should have its own thread. How can we reconcile respecting the beliefs of others with the idea that some of those beliefs are diametrically opposed to your own. If you have a belief that says all X must die...how can you successfully interact with X and both respect their belief while still having yours respected?

It's the "Cultural Mosaic" versus "Cultural Melting Pot" and ooh, there's the thread title...brb making new thread *grin*
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2007, 10:08 PM   #10
Zythus
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsunlight View Post
let say Mr.A is in a desert, dying. Mr.B is lying next to Mr.A. Mr.A thinks about gods, that gods will help him and no matter what happens, he will still survive. Mr.B, with quite a logical mind, thinks that he cannot live without food and water and it's obvious that he is unable to find any ocular resources. Who do you think is more likely to live?
Anyway, I have seen several people cannot stop talking about gods.
I see a legit answer, but from the way you wrote it, are you expecting the religious person to prevail?If so, please tell me the difference between delirium and religion. I see your point on having faith but I don't quite see the validity in that. I hope you can explain to me, and no I'm not being sardonic, I
genuinely wish to know and understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsunlight View Post
-----
Not every religions have conflicts with each others to cause wars. Religions with certain way of human manipulating will help people live better.
No matter how you manipulate religion its still a religion, and in parallel, other religions exists as well. Religion is also dispersive, it causes the cliques that have intolerance towards each other. I agree its true that not all religion is about one divine being and the elimination of idols.
Zythus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2007, 10:17 PM   #11
Zythus
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post

So you're saying that religion is a crutch for the weak who can't find meaning in their own existance, and need there to be something else to tell them why their life has meaning? That doesn't sound like a positive thing.
Last post, that what I meant about delirium. Religion is a painkiller that is of popular use. It was evident that when life is good, we think of materialism and when we need help or in tough times, we seek for solace from religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post
Just a note or two. The Episcopal inquisition was the 1100s, the Spanish Inquisition was the late 1400s/early 1500s, and the concept of "God created man or man created God" dates back to at least Aristotle (340s BC) (Is it right because the Gods will it, or do the Gods will it because it is right?)
Thanks, I needed to refresh that. But I do recall a philosopher in the early 1300s say it too... I'll look it up later.
Zythus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 10:21 AM   #12
coldsunlight
FFR Player
 
coldsunlight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post
I think you'll find that most religions disagree with this assertion. There are plenty of things that are right, wrong, normal or abnormal. You can't claim subjectivity of everything, or everything is completely random and meaningless, so the discussion becomes moot.
" In fact, things are right, wrong, abnormal, normal depend on where, when you are talking about. Things are right with this place might not be right with other places.Because everybody thinks he/she is right, everybody fights against the others (in different degrees)to say that "I am right". Same things happen with religions. "My religion is better, is right, blah blah".
For this assertion is not agreed in many religions, conflicts occur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post

So you're saying that religion is a crutch for the weak who can't find meaning in their own existance, and need there to be something else to tell them why their life has meaning? That doesn't sound like a positive thing.
Sometimes it is. I don't know whether they are weak or not, sometimes faith helps them feel stronger. Or well, even though I am an atheist, sometimes I deceive myself in such things to live, and yep, I know I deceive myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zythus View Post
I see a legit answer, but from the way you wrote it, are you expecting the religious person to prevail?If so, please tell me the difference between delirium and religion. I see your point on having faith but I don't quite see the validity in that. I hope you can explain to me, and no I'm not being sardonic, I
genuinely wish to know and understand.

No matter how you manipulate religion its still a religion, and in parallel, other religions exists as well. Religion is also dispersive, it causes the cliques that have intolerance towards each other. I agree its true that not all religion is about one divine being and the elimination of idols.
I don't expect any kind of people to be prevail at all. Religions or anything else, if are used in proper degree, will help our life become better.
But it is a sickness when people are radical about their religions and have meaningless wars. Especially when people blame the others' religions, judge the others' lives.
Delirium is a type of radical worships lead people to not knowing what they are doing.
__________________
I am dust in the wind, I am coldsunlight. (but just don't ask me what coldsunlight is, ok?)
coldsunlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2007, 12:26 AM   #13
Zythus
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsunlight View Post
Delirium is a type of radical worships lead people to not knowing what they are doing.
How do you suppose that any religion differ from this, entirely?
Zythus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2007, 01:13 AM   #14
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zythus View Post
How do you suppose that any religion differ from this, entirely?
Because many people who follow religious thought know exactly what they are doing, and why they are doing it? There is nothing inherantly delirious about religious or spiritual belief.
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2007, 05:05 PM   #15
Zythus
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Forgive me then, I do not wish to bring upon the liminality of religion from my point of view.
Zythus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2007, 09:33 PM   #16
XCraigeX
FFR Player
 
XCraigeX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 27
Posts: 45
Send a message via MSN to XCraigeX
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

I suppose it can be seen as delirious from an outsider's perspective - however - when you think about it, people who truly beleive in God or a divine being would truly think for sure that they exist - therefore to them they are not delirious.
XCraigeX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2007, 11:19 PM   #17
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

But even to people looking in from outside, if my belief is calm, rational, and predicated on valid logic and reasoning, even if that belief also entails a leap of faith, faith is perfectly able to be rational.
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2007, 11:25 PM   #18
XCraigeX
FFR Player
 
XCraigeX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 27
Posts: 45
Send a message via MSN to XCraigeX
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Very valid point.

However, who are you to determine that your beleif is calm, rational and predicted on valid logic and reasoning? Who are we to determine what valid logic and reasoning really is? How can we see the ambigious ploys mankind has manifested? Perhaps what we think is logical may yet be irrational in the eyes of "the divine being"?

Last edited by XCraigeX; 11-22-2007 at 11:28 PM.. Reason: added
XCraigeX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2007, 11:52 PM   #19
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Okay, then how can you ever believe anything about anything in all of the world?
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2007, 12:03 AM   #20
chunky_cheese
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
chunky_cheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Age: 29
Posts: 1,736
Default Re: Vitality Of Religion As Part Of a Culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by devonin View Post
Okay, then how can you ever believe anything about anything in all of the world?
Through positive influence and reason, from a very young age most people can determine if an act will have a positive or negative consequence to some degree, though this perception is not full developed. For example, we know that killing is "ba-daong" (Kung Pow: Enter the Fist) and that peace is, in most cases, easier to handle than conflict and suffering.

I repeat myself; it is this very desire, the desire to develop values and personal beliefs, that not only leads us to find leadership within a higher power, but to realize ourselves as a group thus forming culture?

Last edited by chunky_cheese; 11-23-2007 at 12:10 AM..
chunky_cheese is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution