Go Back   Flash Flash Revolution: Community Forums > General Discussion > Critical Thinking

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-19-2007, 01:26 AM   #1
Hudelf
FFR Veteran
FFR Veteran
 
Hudelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida, USA
Age: 32
Posts: 93
Default Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

As I've been perusing the forums (and, well, the internet in general), I've noticed a bit of a split between A) People that either don't care about good grammar/spelling or that simply don't have it and B) People that think these are of the utmost importance, especially online.

Personally, I think it is extremely important to be mindful of grammar and spelling, since these are really the only things others have to judge you on. While what you say may be intelligent and insightful, if it's written in l33t5p34k, I'm not going to give it nearly as much credit. To me, it comes off as not only immature, but also very lazy.

Thoughts and opinions? (NO FLAMING OR ARGUING)
Hudelf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 01:39 AM   #2
tsugomaru
FFR Player
 
tsugomaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The stars come to my aid.
Posts: 3,964
Send a message via AIM to tsugomaru
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

This seems more of a Chit-Chat thread, but whatever.

I'm all for grammar, but as long as your message can get clearly across, I'm fine with it. After all, that's what communication is all about.

~Tsugomaru
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiluluk
WHEN do you think people die...?
When their heart is pierced by a bullet from a pistol...? No.
When they succumb to an incurable disease...? No.
When they drink soup made with a poisonous mushroom...? NO!!!
IT'S WHEN A PERSON IS FORGOTTEN...!!!
tsugomaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 01:41 AM   #3
Hudelf
FFR Veteran
FFR Veteran
 
Hudelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida, USA
Age: 32
Posts: 93
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

Eh, mods feel free to move it anywhere, I just didn't want a boatload of people responding with depth-less comments.
Hudelf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 06:21 AM   #4
wwwJ4mmYcouk
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
wwwJ4mmYcouk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 1,031
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

I think as long as the post is readable then it doesnt matter. The grammer doesnt have to be perfect.
__________________
Frank Lee Morris

Μήπως πραγματικά πνιγεί;
wwwJ4mmYcouk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 09:01 AM   #5
purebloodtexan
FFR Player
 
purebloodtexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: In front of the speakers, banging my head until I get a nosebleed.
Age: 29
Posts: 2,845
Send a message via AIM to purebloodtexan
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

It's now a rule that you atleast try to type properly on these forums.
__________________


purebloodtexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 09:14 AM   #6
omgitznpv
cohoooooon
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
omgitznpv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 26
Posts: 6,981
Send a message via AIM to omgitznpv Send a message via MSN to omgitznpv
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

Proper grammar and spelling is always better. If the post does not have proper grammar/spelling, I don't have much of a problem, unless the post is unreadable. I'll prefer proper grammar/spelling.

-> Proper grammar and spelling.
-> not proper grammar and spelling
-> unredable gremerr end spelng
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI View Post
What's the point of using drugs anyways? I heard they help you relax but that's pretty much it. (Not talking about medicines)
omgitznpv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 10:09 AM   #7
andy-o24
Private Messages, please.
FFR Veteran
 
andy-o24's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Central Indiana
Age: 26
Posts: 1,510
Send a message via Skype™ to andy-o24
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

First off, yes, grammar and spelling are important on forums and general chatting. Secondly, the only thing wrong with the "-> not proper grammar and spelling" is the 'N' in 'not' not being capitalized and there's no period. But, not to be off topic too far, grammar and spelling are important but if you miss CaPiTaLiZaTiOn and commas it's not going to be that bad. Like afermentioned, if it's not too horribly butchered then I'm fine with it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by hi19hi19 View Post
Best strat: enjoy the game, play what you feel like when you feel like it. Don't think about what you are doing or why, enjoy the gameplay, the artistry behind the stepfile, and enjoy the music.

When the game isn't fun for you anymore, take a break. It's not a job, nobody here is professional and getting paid to play and force themselves to constantly improve... it's a game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shashakiro View Post
Yeah, FFR is addicting...I don't think I'll get bored with this game unless I somehow become the best at it, which won't happen.
andy-o24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 11:31 AM   #8
Tokzic
FFR Player
 
Tokzic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: TGB
Age: 31
Posts: 7,109
Send a message via AIM to Tokzic
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

I use grammar and spelling when I'm serious because it just seems half-assed not to do so. I prefer reading posts with full grammar, and no matter what, spelling shouldn't be horrible. Not correcting typos before you hit "Post" is just lazy and it shows you don't really care about what you're saying.

on the other hand when i'm not being 100% serious i drop capitalization and end of sentence punctuation

this helps with that whole "internet tone" thing
__________________

Last edited by Tokzic: Today at 11:59 PM. Reason: wait what
Tokzic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 12:53 PM   #9
Squeek
let it snow~
FFR Veteran
 
Squeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 34
Posts: 14,457
Send a message via AIM to Squeek
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

Nobody here cares if you're absolutely perfect. It's the effort that counts.

Believe me, I break grammatical rules all the time.

All we care about is that people understand the difference between a forum and a chat room / instant message chat.
Squeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 01:17 PM   #10
GuidoHunter
is against custom titles
FFR Veteran
 
GuidoHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Texas
Age: 36
Posts: 7,379
Send a message via AIM to GuidoHunter Send a message via Skype™ to GuidoHunter
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsugomaru View Post
I'm all for grammar, but as long as your message can get clearly across, I'm fine with it. After all, that's what communication is all about.
Communication is about effectively conveying an idea. Grammar rules exist as a standard so that we can all understand each other, and if those are thrown out the window, there is a communication breakdown.

Misunderstandings and misconceptions are effectively eliminated when good grammar is used because, for the most part, there is only one (contextual) interpretation of a string of words. This allows messages to be read and understood only once, leaving both the writer and the reader to move on. Without that, messages have to be reread several times to make sense of what is written and to try to interpret the intention of the author. These problems lead to slower communication and misunderstandings.

Even people with "pretty good" or "good enough" grammar are going to have their messages misconstrued at one point or another.

It is in everybody's interest to use pristine grammar in all aspects of life for the sake of efficient communication, and especially to present yourself as having an IQ greater than that of a grapefruit.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandiagod View Post
She has an asshole, in other pics you can see a diaper taped to her dead twin's back.
Sentences I thought I never would have to type.
GuidoHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 01:20 PM   #11
Verruckter
FFR Player
 
Verruckter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada, with the cool people!
Posts: 2,707
Send a message via AIM to Verruckter Send a message via MSN to Verruckter
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

Since I've entered college, I've been thinking a lot about language (since my program is about studying languages). I read a lot about germanic and latin languages, about how they descend from Proto-Indo-European, which is a hypotetical language that could be the ancestor of now French, English, German, Spanish, Swedish, etc. I noticed all of these different languages and dialects evolves independantly from each other.

Now, the dilemma here is wether or not to let the language follow it's evolutive course, i.e. let internet slang take over and simplify everything to eventually become it's own dialect, a process which is absolutely normal in the evolution of a language, or make strict rules about preserving the actual language and not let it change, thus stopping the evolutive process, but keeping a decency and general comprehension.

Still haven't made my mind which is best yet.. :P
__________________
Truth lies in loneliness, When hope is long gone by -Blind Guardian, The Soulforged
Image removed for size violation.
Verruckter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 01:31 PM   #12
TD_m0nster
FFR Player
FFR Veteran
 
TD_m0nster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: california
Posts: 248
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

It becomes a problem when someone insults someone elses point of view and shows that they can't even speak for themselves. Let me exemplify a brief situation:


"I personally think...blah blah etc etc."
"your an idiot"


Who's the idiot?
TD_m0nster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 03:20 PM   #13
Hudelf
FFR Veteran
FFR Veteran
 
Hudelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida, USA
Age: 32
Posts: 93
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verruckter View Post
Now, the dilemma here is wether or not to let the language follow it's evolutive course, i.e. let internet slang take over and simplify everything to eventually become it's own dialect, a process which is absolutely normal in the evolution of a language, or make strict rules about preserving the actual language and not let it change, thus stopping the evolutive process, but keeping a decency and general comprehension.
I disagree with the idea of that being a normal evolutionary process. If everyone online were to completely ignore grammar and spelling, I think it would be foolish to think those habits would not carry into other domains as well.

Good writing ability and vocabulary comes from practice. If, as children, one is never introduced to proper grammar, it is entirely plausible that they will not learn until it is too late, meaning college or even into the working world, which can be disastrous, especially concerning resumés and the like.
Hudelf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 04:18 PM   #14
foilman8805
smoke wheat hail satin
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
foilman8805's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LA baby
Age: 32
Posts: 5,703
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

it generally comes down to comprehension as numerous people have already said. if the meaning of the message is distorted by terrible communication, then there is a problem.

it's really a personal choice, that is, how you type. but depending on how you type, you are subject to different levels of criticism, because as you said Hudelf, someone that types in leetspeak is bound to receive far less praise, and much more scrutiny and flames especially from people on FFR.

the only thing i don't do religiously is capitalize - unless it's a name or i'm trying to add emphasis. i tend to think that people don't look down on my typing because of that. i hope.
foilman8805 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 04:18 PM   #15
Verruckter
FFR Player
 
Verruckter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada, with the cool people!
Posts: 2,707
Send a message via AIM to Verruckter Send a message via MSN to Verruckter
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudelf View Post
I disagree with the idea of that being a normal evolutionary process. If everyone online were to completely ignore grammar and spelling, I think it would be foolish to think those habits would not carry into other domains as well.

Good writing ability and vocabulary comes from practice. If, as children, one is never introduced to proper grammar, it is entirely plausible that they will not learn until it is too late, meaning college or even into the working world, which can be disastrous, especially concerning resumés and the like.
Well I agree that internet slang is maybe not the best example, but I do think it's normal for a language to change throughout time, and maybe communications are helping to do that.
__________________
Truth lies in loneliness, When hope is long gone by -Blind Guardian, The Soulforged
Image removed for size violation.
Verruckter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 04:27 PM   #16
lord_carbo
FFR Player
 
lord_carbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: fighting villains from afar, NJ
Age: 28
Posts: 6,223
Send a message via AIM to lord_carbo
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

Recently I read a post on a forum which started with, "[he] seems to have thought that i was supporting his position is that the healthcare system ISNT meant to do a profit.. because its government run." He completely intertwined the relative clause with the next sentence, thus his message was completely construed. What truly made it confusing was the fact that the original poster was in defense of private health care. I didn't know how to respond except to criticize his grammar.

Grammar is important, especially at such a basic level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudelf View Post
I disagree with the idea of that being a normal evolutionary process. If everyone online were to completely ignore grammar and spelling, I think it would be foolish to think those habits would not carry into other domains as well.

Good writing ability and vocabulary comes from practice. If, as children, one is never introduced to proper grammar, it is entirely plausible that they will not learn until it is too late, meaning college or even into the working world, which can be disastrous, especially concerning resumés and the like.
Uh, that's how it's an evolutionary process. Read some old literature. William Shakespeare, the King James Bible, Jonathan Edwards, even anything as recent as Charles Dickens. You'll see a more prevalent use of the subjunctive mood, a concept often under-looked in modern English classes. I perpetuate its use, lest it die out completely. "Thou," "thy," stuff like that, too. And it's just different. I do not know how I would go about explaining the difference. We just know it to exist.

Old English's distinctions from other Germanic languages comes from the evolution of language. Have you learned reflexive verbs in Spanish or German? Noun gender? That too (and thank goodness).
__________________
last.fm

Last edited by lord_carbo; 10-19-2007 at 04:34 PM..
lord_carbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 04:42 PM   #17
Verruckter
FFR Player
 
Verruckter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada, with the cool people!
Posts: 2,707
Send a message via AIM to Verruckter Send a message via MSN to Verruckter
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_carbo View Post
Recently I read a post on a forum which started with, "[he] seems to have thought that i was supporting his position is that the healthcare system ISNT meant to do a profit.. because its government run." He completely intertwined the relative clause with the next sentence, thus his message was completely construed. What truly made it confusing was the fact that the original poster was in defense of private health care. I didn't know how to respond except to criticize his grammar.

Grammar is important, especially at such a basic level.
That's not grammar, it's syntax. Grammar is spelling and conjugating, while syntax is the order of the words in their context, punctuation, etc.

Also, I think English is one of the only indo-european languages that doesn't have reflexive verbs and noun genders. Not too sure where that comes from, though.
__________________
Truth lies in loneliness, When hope is long gone by -Blind Guardian, The Soulforged
Image removed for size violation.

Last edited by Verruckter; 10-19-2007 at 04:45 PM..
Verruckter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 04:45 PM   #18
devonin
Very Grave Indeed
FFR Simfile AuthorFFR Veteran
 
devonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 36
Posts: 10,098
Send a message via AIM to devonin Send a message via MSN to devonin
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

I'm always amused to see the argument regarding the evolution of language come up, because it always has false dilemma written all over it.

Generally you'll see something like this: "Languages evolve and change, we can see that by looking at the history of english. Internet-style slang is becoming more prevalent, so we have to -choose- between "Letting the language evolve" or "Resisting the evolution""

The attitude that kind of thought process shows is one that says there can only be one path of linguistic evolution, and so we either have to go with it, or discard it staying where we are, and doesn't allow for the fact that multiple changes can happen in tandem, and we can accept some and reject others.

People coin phrases all the time, some catch on, some don't catch on. This is just the normal course of any evolutionary process. Unfortunately, one of the changes seeing widespread use is the discarding of existing rules primarily of spelling and grammar, in favour of textually efficient speech. The -quicker- you can communicate, the better.

In its own way, internet slang is actually fairly similar to things like older forms of Hebrew, where while still leaving enough letters to decode the meaning, you've done away with vowels entirely, shortening words considerably. Just...unlike hebrew, they haven't also included the use of things like vowel marks to facilitate pronunciation.

Half the reason English is such a complex language to learn is that we've done away with a number of the guiding grammatical and linguistic concepts that other languages have, which make mastery of the language more forumlaic and studied. So in its own way, English is actually a sort of text-speak version of the romance languages.
devonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 04:49 PM   #19
MixMasterLar
Beach Bum Extraordinaire
FFR Simfile Author
 
MixMasterLar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Emerald Coast
Posts: 5,090
Send a message via AIM to MixMasterLar Send a message via Skype™ to MixMasterLar
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

Grammar is important, but I'm not really one to talk since I'm known for breaking grammar rules, typos, and misspellings all the time =)

Also, anyone else remember Laharl's Grammer thread?

EDIT: Also I agree with Dev
__________________

Facebook / Youtube / Twitter

.
MixMasterLar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2007, 05:12 PM   #20
lord_carbo
FFR Player
 
lord_carbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: fighting villains from afar, NJ
Age: 28
Posts: 6,223
Send a message via AIM to lord_carbo
Default Re: Grammar & Spelling - Is it important? Read post first

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verruckter View Post
That's not grammar, it's syntax. Grammar is spelling and conjugating, while syntax is the order of the words in their context, punctuation, etc.

Also, I think English is one of the only indo-european languages that doesn't have reflexive verbs and noun genders. Not too sure where that comes from, though.
Grammar encompasses syntax. But don't take my word for it. Insert your fingers into the pages of the nearest dictionary, the nearest English book, or the nearest Wikipedia to where you sit, and search yourself.
__________________
last.fm
lord_carbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright FlashFlashRevolution