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Old 08-6-2007, 05:07 PM   #41
Relambrien
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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Originally Posted by mfelten86 View Post
I was like this too, going to public schools all my life and hearing about evolution and such made me believe that Christianity was just a big "myth" from people passed down over many generations. I thought it was just created so that the Roman Catholic church could get money and whatever they wanted from people.
You received a pretty poor education then. The religion was, in fact, created because people believed Jesus, and it spread. It wasn't until a few hundred years ago that it started getting very corrupt, eventually leading to the Reformation.

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Originally Posted by mfelten86
But when I started attending church voluntarily I realized that I wasn't being a "sheep" as you would call it. I wanted to go because it is showing me how to better my life. And I could either accept it or deny it.
You can better your life without religion. Once again, this is an example of dependence on a divine being to help you improve your life when it's just as easy to do it yourself without religion.

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Originally Posted by mfelten86
Which brings me to the question, why shouldn't you try Christianity? If you can find a good church who won't pressure you to do stuff that you don't want to do..what is the problem? My church (and I'm hoping that most churches) don't just "spew" you their beliefs. They read scripture and interpret it.
"Reading scripture and interpreting it" is the same as "spewing beliefs." Both ways, the priest is reading out of the holy book and telling you what he believes it means. "Spew" just has a negative connotation attached to it.

Also, if you don't want to do the sort of things Jesus said you had to do, then no church fits your description of a good church. All should pressure you to do things a good Christian should do, or else they would be very poor churches in my opinion.

The problem occurs when what you want to do clashes with what the church wants you to do.
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Old 08-6-2007, 05:20 PM   #42
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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First of all, I used to be Christian, back before I developed my own mindset.

Second of all, how does believing in a fictional identity improve your life?

What do I have to lose? That's obvious - the entire thing would be an enormous waste of time.

I'm not saying the just believing in a higher power will improve you. But what it teaches. It teaches patience, love, and wisdom.

A waste of time? What else would you be doing with about two hours per week? Blogging?

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You received a pretty poor education then. The religion was, in fact, created because people believed Jesus, and it spread. It wasn't until a few hundred years ago that it started getting very corrupt, eventually leading to the Reformation.

You can better your life without religion. Once again, this is an example of dependence on a divine being to help you improve your life when it's just as easy to do it yourself without religion.

"Reading scripture and interpreting it" is the same as "spewing beliefs." Both ways, the priest is reading out of the holy book and telling you what he believes it means. "Spew" just has a negative connotation attached to it.

Also, if you don't want to do the sort of things Jesus said you had to do, then no church fits your description of a good church. All should pressure you to do things a good Christian should do, or else they would be very poor churches in my opinion.

The problem occurs when what you want to do clashes with what the church wants you to do.
I guess I was mis-educated then.

Yes you can improve your life with out a divine being, but God does lead you in the right direction, while believing in you.

And of course the Church WANTS you to follow God, but they dont MAKE you or PRESSURE you.
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Old 08-6-2007, 05:40 PM   #43
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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And of course the Church WANTS you to follow God, but they dont MAKE you or PRESSURE you.
They kick you out if you stop following.
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Old 08-6-2007, 05:48 PM   #44
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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They kick you out if you stop following.
What church has kicked you out?
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Old 08-6-2007, 06:27 PM   #45
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

Look, someones belief is their belief, now my personal opinion for someone to just be magically changed from non-believer into believer, they must have had some flaw in their noodle, because quite honestly, there is no proof. None, not one person can show me absolute proof as to Gods existence. Now, I am not about to get into a giant argument over whether or not God is real, and that our existence itself is so unlikely, and how could it be a coincidence. That is exactly what it is, a coincidence. I know how strange the universe is, Super String theory and 11dimensions and gravity leaking all over the place, I know that is mathematically possible to create a universe within our own, so I will not throw out a possibility of a "divine" creator, but someone has to prove that the creator exists, not the other way around. We already have sufficient evidence that supports that is no biblical version of God, so against all that evidence someone must provide proof.
Churchs, the majority of them are simply out there to recruit members under the umbrella of goodwill and what not. Most give very poor interpretations and preach obedience and fear from the almighty. Now I understand that this is a very large generalizationa dn there are alot of very good christian people out there, but to put your faith into something that is less than insubstantial, it is(as yet to be shown) nonexistent. Now many people I know have lead a good life thanks to churches, and that is all well and good, because many morals from Christianity are good, love thy neighbor, be kind and what not, but to base all your beliefs on a book written over 2000 years ago that has been edited and revised countless times, to put all your eggs in one metaphysical basket is just unsound, it is foolish. Would you base your life on ramblings from a person you met on the street who was talking about demons flying out of pigs and into people, and how the sun revolved around the earth, and how practioners and leaders of his ramblings raped and molested children, no you wouldn't. But, I guess alot of people would, if it was written by a book.
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Old 08-6-2007, 06:37 PM   #46
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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What church has kicked you out?
If they don't believe in the word of God, what use are they there?

On top of that, I've regretted just about every extremist I've met. No kidding.

We can learn love, patience, and wisdom without religion. The preacher didn't teach me love, patience, and wisdom. The fact that I got my ass kicked every time I screwed up taught me love, patience, and wisdom.



And what might we spend two hours a week on? Extra school activities, sports, extra time in our jobs......The list goes on.
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Old 08-6-2007, 06:50 PM   #47
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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Christianity is based on faith. The idea of such a divine being as God is extremely difficult for the human mind to comprehend. And therefore, most people turn to aetheist beliefs since they think that science can explain the origins of mankind. However, in the Christian faith we believe in the idea of a divine Creator. I guess we'll find out one day which viewpoint is correct, through Judgment Day or something else... that's your opinion.
Dude, you have no idea what you are talking about. Most people in some form of god, therefor it is very easy to believe in. Most people are NOT atheistic.
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Old 08-6-2007, 07:06 PM   #48
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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Way beyond a wall of text.
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Wall of text attacks! 999 HP lost!
Please format your responses into paragraphs; it makes things so much easier to read, and that much more likely that your posts will actually be read.
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Old 08-6-2007, 10:42 PM   #49
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

I'm a better person for abandoning Catholicism. I know that much. Had I not, I would have remained ignorant on the world, believing only what some guy told me on his soapbox once a week.

I have very little against Christianity though. I have problems with its followers. Forcing their beliefs on others, trying to discredit YEARS of scientific research with pathetic counter-attacks... it's all such a huge joke.

I don't understand why you can't just leave yourselves alone. If you believe some omniscient omnipotent being in the sky magically created the universe in 7 days, then that's what you believe. If you believe some evidence to support various theories of Evolution, then that's what you believe. What is the point of trying to get others to agree with you when they'll never change?

One side says "I have faith." and will never back down. The other says "I need proof." and will never back down. It's that simple.
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Old 08-6-2007, 10:56 PM   #50
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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Originally Posted by Go_Oilers_Go View Post
1. There are more Christians than Muslims or Hindus.
2. Muslims and Hindus could also technically be deemed Creationists because they believe in a deity and that the earth was created by this deity or deities.
Watch this then maybe you won't look like an idiot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-Sq_AzbIJ4

Especially 3 and 4
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Old 08-7-2007, 12:49 AM   #51
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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I'm a better person for abandoning Catholicism. I know that much. Had I not, I would have remained ignorant on the world, believing only what some guy told me on his soapbox once a week.

I have very little against Christianity though. I have problems with its followers. Forcing their beliefs on others, trying to discredit YEARS of scientific research with pathetic counter-attacks... it's all such a huge joke.

I don't understand why you can't just leave yourselves alone. If you believe some omniscient omnipotent being in the sky magically created the universe in 7 days, then that's what you believe. If you believe some evidence to support various theories of Evolution, then that's what you believe. What is the point of trying to get others to agree with you when they'll never change?

One side says "I have faith." and will never back down. The other says "I need proof." and will never back down. It's that simple.

I kind of agree..but in the Bible, God calls his followers to travel to the ends of the earth and spread his word.
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Old 08-7-2007, 12:56 AM   #52
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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I kind of agree..but in the Bible, God calls his followers to travel to the ends of the earth and spread his word.
I respect the fact that y'all are trying to bring more followers in. However, it's like Squeek said: They're practically trying to force us to convert. You seem rather civil in the whole discussion of religion, but most of the religious people I've met have been all in my face about Christianity. (This is no joke) It almost makes me want to say "**** you, I don't want to hear it" as soon as they bring up the discussion of their devotion to God.
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Old 08-7-2007, 01:30 AM   #53
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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I'm a better person for abandoning Catholicism. I know that much. Had I not, I would have remained ignorant on the world, believing only what some guy told me on his soapbox once a week.
You know that that's not Catholicism's fault, right? That is, you could have been a happy Catholic AND not been ignorant of what goes on in the world.

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Old 08-7-2007, 01:35 AM   #54
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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You know that that's not Catholicism's fault, right? That is, you could have been a happy Catholic AND not been ignorant of what goes on in the world.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com
the priest sex abuse scandal pretty much blows that out of the water
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Old 08-7-2007, 01:40 AM   #55
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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I kind of agree..but in the Bible, God calls his followers to travel to the ends of the earth and spread his word.
Yes, but this book was also written 2k ish years ago...by people who's world reached only to the pacific and atlantic oceans at the most.
I would also like to point out that ALL religions except for a select few eastern ones say that you should spread them to everyone.

How do you like it when Jehova's Witnesses come to your door?

Anyway....religion causes more problems than it solves.

**FYI, i've studied the bible, koran, and some bhuddist and Tao texts. I know what i'm talking about.**

Try sitting and reading the ENTIRE bible once, it's a very violent book.
As is the koran and torah.
Religions cause more problems than they solve.

(for those of you care, I choose to follow the Tao.)

And its pronounced "Dow" not "tahw".
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Old 08-7-2007, 04:41 AM   #56
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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You know that that's not Catholicism's fault, right? That is, you could have been a happy Catholic AND not been ignorant of what goes on in the world.
Probably, but it doesn't help that the news constantly shows idiots who blame science for all the world's problems and tell people to embrace the Savior.

Not to mention priests who blame everyone in the congregation for not going to remote places of the world and helping people, or blame people who only worship on Easter/Christmas for not being "true" christians, or blaming people who don't donate to the church for its lack of maintenance.

It's corrupt.
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Old 08-7-2007, 02:08 PM   #57
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

I side with Guido on this one. Faith is but a mere speed bump in the race track of science. In many causes, Scientism is just as destructive for the science community as faith is.
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Old 08-7-2007, 04:13 PM   #58
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

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Probably, but it doesn't help that the news constantly shows idiots who blame science for all the world's problems and tell people to embrace the Savior.

Not to mention priests who blame everyone in the congregation for not going to remote places of the world and helping people, or blame people who only worship on Easter/Christmas for not being "true" christians, or blaming people who don't donate to the church for its lack of maintenance.

It's corrupt.
Yeah, my family left a church, because everything was about money there.
The pastor completely ignored anyone who was not rich.
There were about 5 very wealthy families there, and those people were basically praised for their money.
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Old 08-7-2007, 05:05 PM   #59
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

First post! Yay me!


I hope no one has ever walked away angry or frustrated from a discussion regarding religion or non-religion.

Unless you make your living from the specific study of theology or atheism (and if you did I doubt you'd be doing so on the FFR forums ), then it shouldn't be anything that haunts your thoughts.

Life is about experiencing as many of the great things it has to offer before it's over; without hindering anyone else's ability to do the same.
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Old 08-7-2007, 05:37 PM   #60
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Default Re: New Creationist Ploy: Skepticism, Demanding Evidence

Ack, Tokzic edited his post recently so now I have something -else- to respond to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokzic
EDIT: Rel, that's one one philosopher believes. The actual page for agnosticism in Wikipedia comes much closer to my actual beliefs:
I understand that; I was just showing that agnosticism--your beliefs--is regarded as a subset of weak atheism. If you take apart the word "atheism," you get the prefix "a-" meaning "not" and "theism" roughly meaning "belief in a divine being." It's just that people don't seem to realize the relationship between the various types of humanism (how the Wikipedia page on World Religions refers to the nonreligious), and believe "atheism" as a whole is certainty that divine beings are nonexistent.
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