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Old 08-8-2007, 04:14 PM   #21
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Even if the bible was a literal and historically accurate account of Adam and Eve, why is it so shocking to consider that god created other humans elsewhere? If the bible was written by people who had oral histories passed down, they knew the stories they were told, and the stories they were told were from people who didn't know those other humans existed.

If you read any book that tells the story of some major lineage (Say...the Julio-Claudian emperors, or the Tudors or what have you) those stories quite clearly leave out whole swaths of people. It is somewhat akin to criticizing "the decline and fall of the roman empire" for leaving out the aboriginal North Americans.
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Old 08-8-2007, 05:13 PM   #22
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Oh, no doubt your argument is well grounded, devonin, I just wasn't aware that it was perfectly acceptable to pull sh*t out of your ass to fill in the gaps in the Bible.

I mean, if God created people all around the world, then why are there so many different religions? Did God just create them and live them be, like he did the animals? Are these people some how "lesser" in God's eyes? Or did God create them all equally?

If infallible stories documented in the Bible are somehow not all-knowing, then what else did they leave out or get wrong? You can't question the authority of the Bible, because then you are questioning faith, and if you question faith, you question God.

This is blasphemy.

Obviously, the only true answer is that God is All-Powerful and capable to doing anything...even if it defies logic and cannot ever be proven. Just because we can't comprehend it doesn't mean it isn't true. I mean, I don't know how a computer works, but I can still use it. Right? That's how God is. I mean, know one knows why Airplanes fly, but they do. It just happens. God just happens. Why do you hate God devonin?
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Old 08-8-2007, 05:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Because God is an Iron.
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Old 08-8-2007, 05:50 PM   #24
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewpinthethird View Post

I mean, if God created people all around the world, then why are there so many different religions? Did God just create them and live them be, like he did the animals? Are these people some how "lesser" in God's eyes? Or did God create them all equally?
[/i]
Theres an answer to that question if your actually interested, and in regards to your earlier post, "the earth is flat the stars are holes in the sky" is not the viewpoint held in the Bible.
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Old 08-8-2007, 10:11 PM   #25
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Default Re: Are We All Related

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Originally Posted by Philpwnsyou View Post
Theres an answer to that question if your actually interested
Only if the explanation comes from the Bible including chapter and verse.

Quote:
"the earth is flat the stars are holes in the sky" is not the viewpoint held in the Bible.
I never said it was in the Bible. But it's hard to argue that the writers of the Bible knew much about Earth being round and revolving around the sun...or really had any knowledge about the natural world at all.
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Old 08-9-2007, 12:30 AM   #26
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Sorry, jewp, but the Bible acknowledges that there are those who deny the "only Lord God" and Jesus. Other religions = denying the Christian God and Jesus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jude 1:4 (KJV)
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Though, that doesn't answer the question why God never revealed himself to the other cultures until so late. What an asshole of a God, seriously. Like these unenlightened people are supposed to know any better.
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Old 08-9-2007, 06:22 AM   #27
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Just because it says by the bible that we are offspring from the beginning children doesn't mean that it is true, come on if we could go back to the beginning and knew what happened, it would be totally insane... We are just evolved creatures technically anyhow. Everything evolves, we will evolve again... just like our ancestors did. Evolution was the key that sprung to mind... lol Dinosaurs for instance evolved into something else, not saying the whole Dinosaur species were wiped out by ice age.

I still think Evolution was the key that brought it today. Most of us might be related though. Going through families, we the family tree doesn't have enough proof.
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Old 08-9-2007, 10:58 AM   #28
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Hmm, the Adam and Eve story was just a parable told by Jesus to his followers to teach them how God created humans, I hope you all know. So this means that the Adam and Eve story is fake, it just tells the basic gist of how humanity was originated.

So I guess what I'm saying is that there were other humans around the time of "Adam and Eve" because it is a parable and no one really knows for sure really how humans were born. It seems like everyone in this thread doesn't understand that the "Adam and Eve" story is not real...
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Old 08-9-2007, 11:01 AM   #29
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Default Re: Are We All Related

You should look back over the thread, paying special attention to people's use of phrases like "Even if" and "Assuming" ...you know, the ones that imply that we are fully aware that the story of Adam and Eve is likely not factual, but that we are considering the ramifications of the possibility that it is factual, and whether biblical accounts allow for the full spread of humanity throughout the world.

Further...even if we were claiming it was true, where is your -proof- that the story is fake?
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Old 08-9-2007, 03:02 PM   #30
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Default Re: Are We All Related

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Originally Posted by Matrixdude View Post
Hmm, the Adam and Eve story was just a parable told by Jesus to his followers to teach them how God created humans, I hope you all know. So this means that the Adam and Eve story is fake, it just tells the basic gist of how humanity was originated.
What, what, what? Genesis was written 1400 years before Jesus was born. It is the first book of the Torah, and was probably written by Moses.

Also, even if other people existed at the time of Adam and Eve's creation, they would have all died off in the flood. After the flood, Noah, his family, and his ark of animals, are the only things left on Earth.

So where did all these other people come from? Spontaneous Generation?

Lord Carbo, your passage doesn't say much about where these people came from...let alone that they came from different lands or spoke different languages.

Quote:
Modern Translation:
Jude 1:4 "Some godless people have sneaked in among us and are saying, 'God treats us much better than we deserve, and so it is all right to be immoral.' They even deny that we must obey Jesus Christ as our only Master and Lord. But long ago the Scriptures warned that these godless people were doomed."
Also, any mention of Jesus Christ comes from the New Testament which was written some 2000 years after the Torah (or Old Testament).
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Old 08-9-2007, 03:07 PM   #31
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Quote:
Also, even if other people existed at the time of Adam and Eve's creation, they would have all died off in the flood. After the flood, Noah, his family, and his ark of animals, are the only things left on Earth.
I actually recently had a whole conversation with my mother about Noah's Ark. When she was younger and in catholic school, one of the main causes of her dissatisfaction with the church was the constant response of "Just have faith" She asked if the flood killed everyone but Noah's family, then how were there so many people all over the world, of different races etc. And was simply told "How dare you question! You have faith!"

In later years, she had an anglican minister give her an answer that had she been given it years earlier, might actually have kept her faith: Of -course- they wrote it like the entire world was flooded. As far as they knew, it -was- the whole world. The writers of the story of the flood simply weren't aware of the existance of other civilisations elsewhere in the world.

There is plenty of historical, geological etc evidence that there actually was widespread flooding of that area of the world around the time of the flood stories. However, no such similar evidence exists to suggest that the entire planet was flooded at that time.
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Old 08-9-2007, 03:59 PM   #32
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Default Re: Are We All Related

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Originally Posted by devonin View Post
In later years, she had an anglican minister give her an answer that had she been given it years earlier, might actually have kept her faith: Of -course- they wrote it like the entire world was flooded. As far as they knew, it -was- the whole world. The writers of the story of the flood simply weren't aware of the existance of other civilisations elsewhere in the world.
Of note: This is the answer I heard given on a national Catholic Apologetics radio show a week or so ago.

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Old 08-9-2007, 04:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: Are We All Related

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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird View Post
Lord Carbo, your passage doesn't say much about where these people came from...let alone that they came from different lands or spoke different languages.
Tower of Babel.
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Old 08-9-2007, 05:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Yeah we are. the first people are created by god, they have a baby and they die as the other is an adult while the father of the kid is still alive and the kid is a girl and they have a baby and so on.
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewpinthethird;1716345
Obviously, the only true answer is that God is All-Powerful and capable to doing anything...even if it defies logic and cannot ever be proven. Just because we can't comprehend it doesn't mean it isn't true. I mean, I don't know how a computer works, but I can still use it. Right? That's how God is. I mean, know one knows why Airplanes fly, but they do. It just happens. God just happens. [i
Why do you hate God devonin?[/i]
I've only just become a member on this and I've been reading some of the stuff your talkin bout in the forums. I just wanted to say in response to the quote above ...

- It does make sense to argue that God is beyond our comprehension and I agree that just because we don't understand something, doesn't mean it can not be.
- However, I don't think you can conclude that God is omnipotent (all-powerful). There are many signs in everyday life that go against this claim, e.g natural evil such as earthquakes and the evil created by humans such as murder. If God is omnipotent, why doesn't he enforce justice? Why doesn't he stop evil? Perhaps, he can but he does not. Does this then bring into question God's omnibenevolence? The God of classical theism doesn't seem to work alongside the world in which we live.
- Some will argue that evil is needed in the world and is part of God's plan, and so just because the world isn't perfect doesn't mean God isn't all-powerful. It makes sense really as if we never know evil then we can never know the value of good. However, if god is all-powerful and all-loving, why then must some suffer gravely to learn the value of good while others do not. How is that loving and how does that demonstrate a powerful God?
- Maybe, God is all-powerful and did create the perfect world. Maybe us free-willed humans are to blame for the problem of evil? That fits with the Adam and Eve story. But then gave us free will, and we are in no way responsible for natural disasters, so this argument too is questionable.
- Or perhaps evil and God's omnipotence can co-exist. Maybe the evil in the world is God's way of ounishing us for our wrong doings. But, it seems to me that nowadays there are too many innocent sufferers for this to be true. An example could be young soldiers dying at war, what did they do to deserve that? And is that what their families deserved too?
- The point that im trying to make is that God's omnipotence is questionable, not conclusive.

I'd also like to add I wrote this at 3.06am, so it may not make any sense as i am tired. I've read lots of devonin's stuff ... i think you rock!

Charl, 17 xx
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:20 PM   #36
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Omnipotence is logically impossible.

Incredible power beyond the ability of a human to comprehend, sure. but actual -all- powerful omnipotence? Contradiction in terms.
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:24 PM   #37
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Default Re: Are We All Related

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_carbo View Post
Tower of Babel.
Still doesn't explain where these mystery people came from. Cain's murder and exile happens way before the Tower of Babel.

charleychar, I was being sarcastic.

Quote:
Of -course- they wrote it like the entire world was flooded. As far as they knew, it -was- the whole world. The writers of the story of the flood simply weren't aware of the existance of other civilisations elsewhere in the world.
Again, this makes sense, but how can the Bible be the infallible word of God and be wrong at the same time?????? (extra question marks added for emphasis)
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:28 PM   #38
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Default Re: Are We All Related

The only parts where the bible claims to be the infallible word of God are the parts where god is directly quoted speaking to people. Otherwise, it is assumed to be divinely -inspired- which is not necessarily the same thing as Godly infallibility.

(Of course the real answer is: "well...it isn't" but someone has to argue devil's advocate without begging the question, so I guess that's me)
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:41 PM   #39
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Default Re: Are We All Related

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Originally Posted by devonin View Post
The only parts where the bible claims to be the infallible word of God are the parts where god is directly quoted speaking to people. Otherwise, it is assumed to be divinely -inspired- which is not necessarily the same thing as Godly infallibility.

(Of course the real answer is: "well...it isn't" but someone has to argue devil's advocate without begging the question, so I guess that's me)
But Creationists argue that the Bible is historically and geologically accurate and cite as their source of information. Sorry....but how can Creationism be taken seriously if the Bible isn't as infallible as they claim?
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:20 PM   #40
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Default Re: Are We All Related

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Originally Posted by devonin View Post
In later years, she had an anglican minister give her an answer that had she been given it years earlier, might actually have kept her faith: Of -course- they wrote it like the entire world was flooded. As far as they knew, it -was- the whole world. The writers of the story of the flood simply weren't aware of the existance of other civilisations elsewhere in the world.
So God decided to only violently murder one part of the world? Because his wrath at humanity only included a specific group of people besides being defined otherwise in the bible?

Oh, sounds like a good idea to me.
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