Old 07-10-2007, 12:00 PM   #1
hayatewillown
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Default Illegals?

We need to show more sympathy for these people.
They travel miles in the heat, they risk their lives crossing a border,
they don't get paid enough wages, they do jobs that others won't do or are afraid to do, they live in crowded conditions among a people who speak a
different language, they rarely see their families, and they face
adversity all day every day.

I'm not talking about illegal Mexicans, I'm talking about our TROOPS.
Doesn't it seem strange that the Democrats are willing to lavish all
kinds of social benefits on illegals, but don't support our troops
and are now threatening to de-fund them?

[Taken from someone ( no name) but I agree]
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Illegals???

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Originally Posted by hayatewillown View Post
the Democrats...don't support our troops
That's a pretty bold claim, and I'd like to see your reasoning/evidence that Democrats don't support the military. Also, for clarity from the beginning:

Not supporting the war != Not supporting the military
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Illegals?

Uh...isn't that what they signed up for? This is a volunteer military. Remember that. I am against this war. I find the conditions our soldiers live in and the things they have to do are appalling, which is why I believe this war needs to end. And cutting funds is one way for the executive branch to get their ass in gear.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:07 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird View Post
Uh...isn't that what they signed up for? This is a volunteer military. Remember that. I am against this war. I find the conditions our soldiers live in and the things they have to do are appalling, which is why I believe this war needs to end. And cutting funds is one way for the executive branch to get their ass in gear.
Appalling? Have you seen the F'n Army? Hell, thats the reason why the Marines are so much better. The army's condition sucks, we all know it. I have seen so many damn mis-fires and videos that show how poorly the army is taught.

No. Cutting a Marines fund? Bull-shi*! [Or a Navy Seal! Or a Greenside attached Corpseman..]
They work their ass off in the war and they don't get paid the shi* that they deserve! We shouldn't be freaking homing the illegal Mexicans that cross our border because they can't get a job, thats a waste of money. We shouldn't be paying for all the crap thats unnecessary!

And first of all, As I freaking posted, I just found this. I agree with it 100%
Don't ask me for any evidence because you feel like you want to act smart, I know this is critical thinking, but if some people actually think and read, you would have realized that I didn't post this.

Plus, I hate all the people that are against the war and want them to pull out. I have said this before: If we pull out, other countries could see this as a weakness and attack us, more terrorist groups, even though we are contributing to a religious war and finding hidden terrorist groups.

Quote:
Not supporting the war != Not supporting the military
Lmao. Want a cookie? If you really want to support the military, you can at least give the marine a better paycheck so his family would be o.k back home, the money they get while the marine or seal is out is still not enough to help the family efficiently .

Quote:
That's a pretty bold claim, and I'd like to see your reasoning/evidence that Democrats don't support the military
O Rly? How about this. They are planning to DE-FUND! They want us to pull out! This is why I didn't want a democratic president. I feel that George Bush has made the right decision by sending our troops out. Pull out? Free attack at America? Fine. Have it that way. Lets have a mass killing because a bunch of stupid democrats wanted to pull us out.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: Illegals?

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Originally Posted by hayatewillown View Post
Appalling? Have you seen the F'n Army? Hell, thats the reason why the Marines are so much better. The army's condition sucks, we all know it. I have seen so many damn mis-fires and videos that show how poorly the army is taught.
The army is taught anything but poorly. My room mate is in the National Guard, and as such I end up attending a lot of his drills as a visitor, in which I can watch and even participate in said drills. They go through rigorous PT (though admittedly, not to the extent that marines are), and are taught how to use weapons and hand grenades, as well as clean them, take care of them, disassemble them, and generally keep them in good shape. The army, or for that matter any branch of the military is anything but poorly taught.

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Originally Posted by hayatewillown View Post
And first of all, As I freaking posted, I just found this. I agree with it 100%
Don't ask me for any evidence because you feel like you want to act smart, I know this is critical thinking, but if some people actually think and read, you would have realized that I didn't post this.

Plus, I hate all the people that are against the war and want them to pull out. I have said this before: If we pull out, other countries could see this as a weakness and attack us, more terrorist groups, even though we are contributing to a religious war and finding hidden terrorist groups.
I realize that you didn't write this, but you have said that you agree with it, and as such must be able to procure even ONE example of why Democrats don't support the -troops-. I have looked, out of curiosity, and I can't find anything nearly suggesting that, so please enlighten me.

As for pulling out, I don't have an educated opinion on that, so I'll skip over it.


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Originally Posted by hayatewillown View Post
Lmao. Want a cookie? If you really want to support the military, you can at least give the marine a better paycheck so his family would be o.k back home, the money they get while the marine or seal is out is still not enough to help the family efficiently .
An E1 marine gets $1209.00 a month, which is sent directly to his bank account. This means that his family can readily use it, as if he is on base he will have little to no expenses. If his family isn't accompanying him to wherever he is, they get an extra $250.00 a month, and if he is in a "danger zone" where he may be fired at, he will get an extra $225.00 a month on top of all that. In addition, if they have an obviously dangerous job, there is $150.00 thrown on top of all that. I'd say a family having over $2,000.00 a month at their disposal can hold the family over if the wife has a job. Hell, in low cost of living places they could live off of that completely.

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Originally Posted by hayatewillown View Post
O Rly? How about this. They are planning to DE-FUND! They want us to pull out! This is why I didn't want a democratic president. I feel that George Bush has made the right decision by sending our troops out. Pull out? Free attack at America? Fine. Have it that way. Lets have a mass killing because a bunch of stupid democrats wanted to pull us out.
Because Iraqis attacked us, right? We've been there for several years, and as of this moment, not much is changing. If we want to stay over there, we need a new plan altogether, so we can accomplish what we need and get out before hell freezes over. I'm not completely opposed to staying, but if we keep our pace as of now, nothing is going to change significantly except the USA death toll.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Illegals?

Quote:
(though admittedly, not to the extent that marines are)
So tell me, what is your example of marine/Navy Seal Pting? You can use Buds for the Seals as an example.

Quote:
and are taught how to use weapons and hand grenades, as well as clean them, take care of them, disassemble them, and generally keep them in good shape
Riiiiight.. So let me get this straight. Who goes in first out in the war?

Also, don't you think that since the Army is good that they should get a bigger paycheck? How about the Military in whole? Have you thought about that?

Quote:
An E1 marine gets $1209.00 a month, which is sent directly to his bank account. This means that his family can readily use it, as if he is on base he will have little to no expenses. If his family isn't accompanying him to wherever he is, they get an extra $250.00 a month, and if he is in a "danger zone" where he may be fired at, he will get an extra $225.00 a month on top of all that. In addition, if they have an obviously dangerous job, there is $150.00 thrown on top of all that. I'd say a family having over $2,000.00 a month at their disposal can hold the family over if the wife has a job. Hell, in low cost of living places they could live off of that completely.
Got to think about the kids. Most military families have kids, remember. That also goes to all the taxes and bills and the god forbidden taxes that go to the freaking illegal immigrants and as I said, unnecessarily things.

Quote:
but if we keep our pace as of now, nothing is going to change significantly except the USA death toll.
Lets not forget other death tolls such as terrorists.. you need to include that. I want the FULL Information buddy.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: Illegals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayatewillown View Post
So tell me, what is your example of marine/Navy Seal Pting? You can use Buds for the Seals as an example.


Riiiiight.. So let me get this straight. Who goes in first out in the war?

Also, don't you think that since the Army is good that they should get a bigger paycheck? How about the Military in whole? Have you thought about that?



Got to think about the kids. Most military families have kids, remember. That also goes to all the taxes and bills and the god forbidden taxes that go to the freaking illegal immigrants and as I said, unnecessarily things.


Lets not forget other death tolls such as terrorists.. you need to include that. I want the FULL Information buddy.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/a/afpt.htm for Army PT, and http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/l/blfitmale.htm for marine PT.

As far as who goes out first in the war, I'm going to go ahead and say we start with Unmanned Aerial Vehicles, then the Air Force, then spec ops, then Army, then more specialized groups. Though, just a guess, and I wouldn't quote me on it.

As for kids, the pay I gave you was the absolute minimum, and as such you can expect them to be making from 1209 - 13k a month, 13k a month being a four star general (only like one person), so you can expect most people to be making 2-3k a month base, and then going up slowly from there. You can easily raise a family off of 36k a month before including the wife/kid's jobs. Also, if the family lives on base most of their stuff is tax-free, and I'm pretty sure some of that pay is income tax exempt.

Also, the terrorist death toll isn't nearly as important to me as the USA military death toll. Nearly 3,300 American troops have died as per wikipedia. According to www.Iraqbodycount.com more than 60,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed in the war. There isn't any official numbers of how many terrorists have been killed in the War on Terror, so if you find any let me know.
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Old 07-11-2007, 10:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: Illegals?

I will look into it. I'm going over to Camp Lejune soon so I will find out what I can. I'm also going to Camp David but I doubt that they will give any info. out.

Regardless of Pting. Military needs money. We need money for families and weapons.
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Old 07-11-2007, 10:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Illegals?

"We need money for families and weapons"

I find this sentence curious. Amusing, even.

Also, a lot of the points raised are a bit blatantly trollish it seems to me.
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Old 07-11-2007, 10:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Illegals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayatewillown View Post
We need to show more sympathy for these people.
They travel miles in the heat, they risk their lives crossing a border,
they don't get paid enough wages, they do jobs that others won't do or are afraid to do, they live in crowded conditions among a people who speak a
different language, they rarely see their families, and they face
adversity all day every day.

I'm not talking about illegal Mexicans, I'm talking about our TROOPS.
Doesn't it seem strange that the Democrats are willing to lavish all
kinds of social benefits on illegals, but don't support our troops
and are now threatening to de-fund them?

[Taken from someone ( no name) but I agree]
You not know a thing about immigration amnesty.
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:15 AM   #11
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Default Re: Illegals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayatewillown View Post
O Rly? How about this. They are planning to DE-FUND! They want us to pull out! This is why I didn't want a democratic president. I feel that George Bush has made the right decision by sending our troops out. Pull out? Free attack at America? Fine. Have it that way. Lets have a mass killing because a bunch of stupid democrats wanted to pull us out.
lol at you.

George Bush should NOT have invaded Iraq. Iraq wasn't even the official target, it was the AL-Qaeda in Afghanistan. George Bush wanted to finish Daddy Bush's job in Iraq.

Now that Americans are stuck in Iraq, you cannot pull out without sacrificing many lives in Iraq as well as the American troops.

George Bush dug the hole, how will he dig himself out? Let's sit and watch the news for a couple months.

**EDIT**

If some idea like i just stated was already said, then ignore this i just didn't bother reading after this post.

**EDIT 2**

sorry i didnt realize this topic was a week old. Sorry for bumping.
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: Illegals?

Wow hayate...ur rly getting yourself in a bunch of flames.
You might think ur kewl posting a bunch of long posts but your rly thinking like a young one.
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:30 AM   #13
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Default Re: Illegals?

I think I'm more amused that you'd define that post as a "long post" than I am amused by the naiveté of the content.
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: Illegals?

Quote:
If they honestly want to come here to live a better life then they should learn English, work hard, and assimilate into our society
This part makes me unaccountably sad to see. Heavens forfend people be allowed to retain their culture. "Melting Pot" society in the United States is always being held up by americans (Usually white, anglo americans) as some amazing wonderous thing, that people from other nations can go to America, and have their entire cultural identity subsumed by the superbowl, macdonalds and south park, and don't seem to notice that this is one of the greatest tragedies in American culture.
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:00 AM   #15
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Default Re: Illegals?

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Originally Posted by soulofcerberus View Post
Yet I draw the line when a fairly good number of them expect America to automatically hand them everything on a silver platter and treat Americans like trash and act as if Mexico owns the land they walk on. I consider it racism just like most people consider "aryan race" bullexcrement that one of my former friends loves (former because of it) racism.
Of course not all Mexicans don't expect to be handed everything or expect things to be easy for them. For example, my family. We came to the U.S. from Mexico about.. 12 years ago, with just $500.00, and it was me, my parents, and two brothers. (I have a fourth brother, but he was born in Utah)

My parents of course aren't stubborn, stuck-up Mexicans that think they're supreme over everyone else. We started to fit in, learned the language, and now my dad is Art Director of Capital One and my mom has a job too as a secretary for a rehab center. Also, my brothers and I are doing exceptionally well in school, and we probably attend some of the best public schools in the country.

So yeah, we're doing well, even though my parents still have accents.. so they struggle a bit in the language even today, and I admit, even though I don't have an accent, and speak Spanish.. rarely ever.. I stumble a bit on my words when I talk too fast.

Of course I'm not racist at all against white-skinned Americans or any other race to be honest, however, I get teased a lot just because I'm Mexican. Practically by anyone, for no reason at all. I mean, I even talked to this girl the other day and she started ranting in my face about Mexicans taking all the jobs as if it was my damn fault. And people treat me bad because of what people like you (soulofcerberus) think of Mexicans in general. It really pisses me off because I'm not that kind of person. Yeah, I'm proud of who I am, but sometimes I wish I didn't tell people what country I'm from just to avoid drama.

Also, the part about Mexicans walking all over "your land" amuses me a bit. Maybe you should read up a bit on the Mexican-American War. Some of that land used to belong to us, but not even that. It used to belong to the Native Americans until the Europeans started conquering this land and slaughtering all the Natives. So, basically, you have nothing to be proud of, and no one does. No one should be proud about living in a country that was won over by such heinous acts, but it's still a better place to live in than in most places.
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Old 07-18-2007, 09:45 AM   #16
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Default Re: Illegals?

the soilders are to busy making little kids run for water

http://youtube.com/watch?v=m9A_vxIOB-I
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Illegals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyokou View Post
snip for space
Both you and soulofcerberus are taking things out of hand a bit here. Just relax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyokou
Of course not all Mexicans don't expect to be handed everything or expect things to be easy for them.
Neither does soulofcerberus:

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulofcerberus
Yet I draw the line when a fairly good number of them expect America to automatically hand them everything on a silver platter and treat Americans like trash and act as if Mexico owns the land they walk on.
Note that a "fairly good number" isn't even a majority, at least when I use it. It would be around 30% I would think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulofcerberus
It's just that it appalls me that their country practically pushes them into America and expects us to treat them better than we treat our own citizens, yet has immigration laws that would NEVER pass in america, yet our polititions ignore it and both sides become hypocrites.
Historically, America has been the "We welcome everyone! Find a better life here!" country. I'm not surprised that Mexico would expect America to treat their citizens better than they do. After all, we've been immigration advocates forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyokou
Of course I'm not racist at all against white-skinned Americans or any other race to be honest, however, I get teased a lot just because I'm Mexican. Practically by anyone, for no reason at all. I mean, I even talked to this girl the other day and she started ranting in my face about Mexicans taking all the jobs as if it was my damn fault. And people treat me bad because of what people like you (soulofcerberus) think of Mexicans in general. It really pisses me off because I'm not that kind of person. Yeah, I'm proud of who I am, but sometimes I wish I didn't tell people what country I'm from just to avoid drama.
I'm sorry to hear you get teased, but almost -everyone- does as long as they're something about you that's different from others. For instance, I'm my school's resident computer nerd and math nerd. It just so happens that for you, most people see the most different thing about you as being your ethnicity, and so that's what you get teased about.

About the incident with the girl, I think I understand why she ranted to you about illegal immigrants taking away jobs from legal Americans. Whenever I have a problem with someone or something, I usually rant about it to someone -related- to what's causing my problem, but not -sympathetic- to them. Meaning, a member of the group but one that isn't causing the problem. I do this because I feel a member of the group understands that some members of the group are causing problems, and therefore this person is most likely to be sympathetic towards me.

Now of course I don't know the exact conversation or tones used or anything, so I can't guarantee what I said is the case. From the information you've given me, I've determined that what I wrote is a likely scenario.

Now to clarify:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyokou

My parents of course aren't stubborn, stuck-up Mexicans that think they're supreme over everyone else. We started to fit in, learned the language, and now my dad is Art Director of Capital One and my mom has a job too as a secretary for a rehab center. Also, my brothers and I are doing exceptionally well in school, and we probably attend some of the best public schools in the country.

So yeah, we're doing well, even though my parents still have accents.. so they struggle a bit in the language even today, and I admit, even though I don't have an accent, and speak Spanish.. rarely ever.. I stumble a bit on my words when I talk too fast.
It isn't people like you that people like soulofcerberus have problems with. You are the type of person we -want- in America: someone who is willing to learn and accept change. His problems lie with people that come into the country illegally and expect to be able to speak their own language 24/7, while maintaining a relatively comfortable lifestyle. And when this doesn't happen, they blame America for not treating them sufficiently well. These are the people that we have problems with.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: Illegals?

Hayate has already said that he's just here to piss people off, and even if that wasn't his primary intention, he always violates Critical Thinking guidelines.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:28 PM   #19
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http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...ead.php?t=9973
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2. Do not take anything personally. No flaming.
Quote:
4. Since this is a Critical Thinking Forum use evidence to back up your statement if needed.
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Illegals?

Yeah, I'm going to motion to have hayatewillown banned from CT if s/he keeps posting garbage like this.
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