Old 02-12-2004, 09:06 PM   #1
IAMTHEEVILBEAN
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Default DNA Dinosuars

We watched a video on this. Seems like bs to me.

Even if we do get the dinosaur DNA extracted and the dinosaur born, it would be attacked by many diseases it is not immune to that never existed back then. Plus it would be like suicide, bringing back enormous beasts that could kill many.

What do you think?
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Old 02-12-2004, 09:28 PM   #2
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a dinosuar could never survive today...there has been 65 million years of evolution that have occured since then and they wouldnt be immune to the simplest antigens
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Old 02-12-2004, 11:05 PM   #3
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You just HAD to make me think of Michael Crichton, didn't you? Makaveli and bean are both right on the immunity thing, but what about Jurassic Park's methods (the book, not the movie)? You know, filling in the missing parts of DNA with other species? And then raising them in those totally 100% contamination-free bunkers like in the Andromeda Strain? And then altering and changing DNA bits through trial and error, and then alot of vaccines or something? It would require a crap load of caution, time, money, and luck, but it just might be possible to get something at least slightly similar to the ancient creatures.
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Old 02-13-2004, 01:11 AM   #4
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I believe this sort of thing has been tried before with a mammoth, if failed. The DNA inside of the creature was far too old to actually be usable again. A cell has to split in order to create more cells, and over time the cells will become too small to split, such as the lamb they cloned successfully died at a very young age, because the DNA that was taken from the original lamb was aged somewhat, then it stayed aged and caused the lamb to die eariler. I don't want to here anything about creatures being preserved in ice either, ice may freeze them, but they die because they cannot move around and do natural body functions, therefore the whole creature dies, and if the whole creature dies, then so do the cells, because they have nothing to produce energy from.

So, in other words, it's immpossible to bring something that is dead back to life.
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Old 02-13-2004, 05:52 AM   #5
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Actually RIAA they would have succeeded had they not been trying to do this in 1998....we now have the technology to do so. Although we would probably not end up with actual replicas of the dinosaur as it was because like Omega said we would have to fill in missing chunks of the DNA with other creatures. Another possibility is that we can actually MAKE our own dinosaur using the correct bits and pieces of DNA from animals alive today. Mainly Birds and some reptiles, Crocodile, Komodo Dragon, Tuitara...etc. They would be comletey new species though and most likely notably smaller than their Cretaceuous-Counterparts. But it is very possible if we use the second method I noted.
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Old 02-13-2004, 06:38 AM   #6
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how fucking creepy would i be to see a real, living dinosaur!
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Old 02-13-2004, 11:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omeganitros
You just HAD to make me think of Michael Crichton, didn't you? Makaveli and bean are both right on the immunity thing, but what about Jurassic Park's methods (the book, not the movie)? You know, filling in the missing parts of DNA with other species? And then raising them in those totally 100% contamination-free bunkers like in the Andromeda Strain? And then altering and changing DNA bits through trial and error, and then alot of vaccines or something? It would require a crap load of caution, time, money, and luck, but it just might be possible to get something at least slightly similar to the ancient creatures.
trial and error, i dont think that would be too effective...not only would it take forever but it would cost millions and probably billions...it isnt worth it...
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Old 02-13-2004, 03:25 PM   #8
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wonderful, here is a paper i wrote for bio last semester:

Michael Martone
1/8/04 Dino cloning
Period 1 Biology


“HAMMOND:
Right. You are witnessing the extraction of tissue from the thorax of this humble insect. If this mosquito has ingested any foreign red blood cells - say it bit a hadrosaur or a stegosaurus or a T-Rex - we will extract those blood cells and obtain paleo-DNA, the how-to-build instruction book of an extinct creature.

GRANT:
But even thousands of mosquitoes wouldn't give you enough tissue to determine a complete DNA strand.

HAMMOND:
Right you are, Dr. Grant! More like hundreds of thousands of mosquitoes are necessary to provide even a partial strand of DNA. And without a complete strand, we don't have a dinosaur.”(Michael Crichton)

Ever since the discovery of cloning, the question of cloning extinct animals, such as dinosaurs, has been an area of curiosity. From this instance in Jurassic Park, you can see how convincing the prospect of cloning dinosaurs can be. Think about it, millions of years ago a mosquito imbibes the blood of a dinosaur, containing DNA sequences that are much sought after in this era. The mosquito buzzes onto a tree, gorged on its fresh meal. A viscous liquid called sap prevents the mosquito from departing. As the molasses-like substance envelops the mosquito, the oxygen got forced out, creating a vacuum in which very little decomposition could occur. Millions of years pass by. The sap has now transformed into amber, a hard gem-like object. The mosquito still is intact inside. The question arises: Is it possible to extract DNA from this mosquito? Considering that mosquitoes and Dinosaurs lived in the same time period, it is indeed possible that they feed on dinosaurs. If this is so, isn’t it possible to extract the blood from the mosquito’s thorax, thus giving the opportunity to search for possible strains of dinosaur DNA? Though this technique would seem plausible, there are certain flaws that make it impossible. The replication of this experiment, the reason why it wouldn’t work, and ideas for the future will be included during this discussion. (Ann Gibbons), (Beverly Eschberger)
DNA (DeoxyRibonuleic Acid) is a long chain of 5 carbon sugars phosphates, and nitrogen bases. These bases are known as Adenine, Thymine, Cytosine, and Guanine. Because of the way these molecules are formed, Adenine and Thymine bond with each other, and Cytosine bonds with Guanine. Neither Adenine, nor Thymine can bond with Cytosine or Guanine. A chemical bond between the two phosphates and Hydrogen holds these bonds between the nitrogenous bases together. By determining what order the nitrogen bases go in, you can use it as a guide to recreating that DNA which will be used to replicate a dinosaur. These long chains intertwine and form a double helix shaped structure. The long chains are also known as nucleotides. Though Friedrich Miescher discovered DNA in 1868, the double helix structure was suggested by Francis Crick and James Watson in 1953.
In order to start of the procedure of replicating dinosaur DNA, you need a primary source to get it from. Fossils from dinosaurs wouldn’t work because molecules from the rock itself seep into the bone, thus eliminating the organic nature that it once possessed. However, amber keeps a specimen perfectly preserved. At least, it was thought perfect until it was tested further. As said in Jurassic park, it would require hundreds of thousands of mosquitoes just to obtain a partial strand of DNA. The first step is to bore a miniscule hole into the amber. Afterwards, a small part of the thorax of the mosquito is processed in the lab. The genetic material that scientists are looking for is most definitely there, it has just become so fragmented that it is nearly impossible to fine a complete strand of DNA. Immediately as the DNA left the dinosaur’s body, it started breaking down. Even though it was preserved in amber, the DNA still continues to break down inside the mosquito. An additional problem that scientists encounter is that dinosaurs weren’t the only animals being fed on. The DNA situated in the stomach of the mosquito may really be just a mish-mash of numerous animals’ DNA. After all, scientists haven’t seen real dinosaur DNA before, how do they know what they’re looking for? Another problem is how the scientists would fill the gaps of Dinosaur DNA with another animal’s. In order to fill gaps in DNA with another animal, the scientists must first know what function of the DNA was missing, and then go back and replace it with another animal’s DNA. However, if you did know which aspects of the DNA were missing, you wouldn’t need to substitute with another animal, you would know how to complete the strand by yourself (D. Scott Causey) However D.Scott Causey demonstrated a possible solution that would be a lot less guesswork with this logical program. It is called Loy’s Extraction Technique (L.E.T.), and in order to initiate the process, 50 nanograms of the fossil is needed.



L.E.T.:
E E E E E E E E
ß ß ß ß ß ß ß ß
Line 1
A T C C A G A T G C A T G G G C T T A G T A C C A G A C G T A C T G G T T A C
| | | | | | | | | --------------------- | | | | | | ------------- | | | | | | | | | | | --------- | | | | --------- | | | | | | | | |
T A G G T C T A C G T A C C C G A AT C A T G GT C T G C A T G A C C A A T G
Line 2
A T C A T G A C C T T G A C C A T G G G A C C A G T G C A C G T A C C G T T C
| | | ------- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | --------------------------- | | | | | | | | | | | | | ------ | ----- | | | ---- |
T A G T A C T G G AA C T G G T A C C C T G G T C A - - - - C A T G G - - A -
Line 3
A T A C A C C A T G G G A C A TAC T T A G - - - - - - - - - - - -
| | ----- | ---------------- | ------- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ----- | | | | | ---- | ------ | ------- | | | | ---- | --- | --------
T A T G T G GT A C CC T G T A G - - - - G G T C A G C G C T G C A
End Product
A T C C A G A T G A C C T T G A C C A T G G G AC A T AC TT AGTA C C A G T G C A C GT A C G A C T G G T T A C
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
T A G G T C T A C T G G A A C T G G T A C C C T G TA TG AA TCAT GG T C A C G T GC A T G C T G A C C A A T G
1. 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 Ý 50 55
49
KEY: ATCG = Line 1 --- = missing information Ý = insertion/ pointer G =
GuanineATCG = Line 2 | = hydrogen bond E = elements C = CytosineATCG = Line 3
ATCG = artificially placed A = Adenine T = Thymine (D. Scott Causey)

As you can see, some parts of the DNA contained parts that another strand didn’t have. We all know that every DNA strand is exactly alike, so it must be substitutable. Using this technique, you could in theory replicate an entire strand of dinosaur DNA. The only fault that lies with this is that it is unknown if it even is dinosaur DNA, or something else.
Though there are many reasons why this technique of extracting DNA would be successful, there are infinitely more reasons why the procedure is flawed in many ways. For example, a major reason why we haven’t been able to extract DNA effectively is the simple fact of contamination. We are just not technologically advanced enough to use processes, which are more efficient, with less chance of contamination. As stated before, the DNA is floating around the mosquito’s stomach in a soup of fragments of DNA. Some of this DNA may belong to other animals that got bitten around the same time the mosquito bit the dinosaur. Another aspect of replicating dinosaurs is rearing them. How do you expect to just release dinosaurs outside? Conditions 60 million years ago were much different than today. It had 30% more oxygen than it does today. “An equivalent comparison would be a human at the top of Mt. Everest without any oxygen” (D. Scott Causey). To add to that, new viruses and diseases now exist which were never existent at the time of the dinosaurs. Recall the incident with the Native Americans as the early Europeans moved into their land. The epidemic of smallpox wiped out entire villages of people in a matter of months, seeing how susceptible the Indians were to this previously unknown disease. However, there are solutions to these problems if you take the time and effort to care for the dinosaurs. Like a human acclimating to higher altitudes as he climbs, you could do the same to a dinosaur. Slowly limit the amount of oxygen it receives (start it off with 30% more oxygen than usual) bit by bit. For the diseases, you could theoretically make a vaccine to prevent it, but who knows if it will even work, or have lethal side effects? Even if you did manage to find a suitable egg laying animal to support a dinosaur, only a very small percentage would make it past their juvenile years. Creating the dinosaur is one thing, to care for it is a totally separate problem. (D. Scott Causey)
To conclude, as of now, creating dinosaurs from a sample of blood in a mosquito, which was imprisoned in amber years ago, is impossible. The strands of DNA are just too fragmented and mixed in with other animal’s DNA that it is indeed difficult to determine correct dinosaur DNA. In fact, we don’t even know what dinosaur DNA would look like if we had it, so a method of trial and error would be performed countless numbers of times, almost always resulting in negative results. To add to that, the easily contaminated samples from the mosquito would be invaded by outside sources, seeing as we lack the technology to keep the DNA in its pristine state. To add to that, even if the dinosaur was successfully cloned in some unimaginable way, the dinosaur would be unable to survive without intensive care. Even the lowliest cold bug could kill it, as it hadn’t been exposed to our viruses in their time. So thus it stands: though at this present state it is impossible to clone a dinosaur from genetic material found in fossils, it may become apparent in the future that it is indeed possible due to recent discoveries in technology.
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Old 02-13-2004, 03:32 PM   #9
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holy shit dude. thats fucking long.
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Old 02-13-2004, 03:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephirothFF7
Actually RIAA they would have succeeded had they not been trying to do this in 1998....we now have the technology to do so. Although we would probably not end up with actual replicas of the dinosaur as it was because like Omega said we would have to fill in missing chunks of the DNA with other creatures. Another possibility is that we can actually MAKE our own dinosaur using the correct bits and pieces of DNA from animals alive today. Mainly Birds and some reptiles, Crocodile, Komodo Dragon, Tuitara...etc. They would be comletey new species though and most likely notably smaller than their Cretaceuous-Counterparts. But it is very possible if we use the second method I noted.
you must understand that it wouldn't be filling dino dna with frog dna, it would be filling frog dna with dino dna. This process doesn't work
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Old 02-13-2004, 03:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chillywilly
holy (#$% dude. thats #$#ing long.
it's 6 pages double spaced....it really isn't long at all
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Old 02-13-2004, 04:36 PM   #12
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Nice essay, what grade did you get on it? I think I covered some of that. However, I have to disagree with your conclusion of impossiblilty, cuz...well....as The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy might have put it, "Nothing is impossible, just highly improbable." But that doesnt matter. Your point was made.
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Old 02-13-2004, 04:37 PM   #13
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i never said it was impossible. I said it was impossible at the present. In the future there's a good chance it will be possible.

I got a B+
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Old 03-8-2004, 09:41 AM   #14
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it sounds like jp
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Old 03-11-2004, 03:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringluver
it sounds like jp
this is basically the same process used in jurassic park
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Old 03-11-2004, 10:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIAA
I believe this sort of thing has been tried before with a mammoth, if failed. The DNA inside of the creature was far too old to actually be usable again. A cell has to split in order to create more cells, and over time the cells will become too small to split, such as the lamb they cloned successfully died at a very young age, because the DNA that was taken from the original lamb was aged somewhat, then it stayed aged and caused the lamb to die eariler. I don't want to here anything about creatures being preserved in ice either, ice may freeze them, but they die because they cannot move around and do natural body functions, therefore the whole creature dies, and if the whole creature dies, then so do the cells, because they have nothing to produce energy from.

So, in other words, it's immpossible to bring something that is dead back to life.
Dude, please don't say anything this stupid again. Cells don't become too small to split, when they say split they actually mean the cell replicates itself and the one it creates is an exact copy (like cloning). An animal that is frozen does not die because it can't "move around and do natural body functions", the animal dies of hypothermia usually, unless it's a flash freezing than it probably died of suffocation. DNA is extractable (usually) from most things that have DNA cells, no matter how old it is, as long as they can put together the whole strand.
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