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Old 02-12-2004, 11:32 PM   #21
Master_of_PARANOiA
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*modifies his own genes* yay I have 15 arms and 4 legs.. I'M A MUTANT (w00t)

but to talk about the actual topic:

let's say we do make perfect humans (on a genetic level), would they turn on us? probably not.. remember that no matter what, they can still be killed. all we need is to plan ahead and get an army of people who could wait for that one day, everyone has shotguns and machine guns. perfect humans, without guns, or regular humans (and possibly some of the perfect humans), with guns, who would win?

I think we should stop trying to play god. you want engineer a potato that grows 5 times faster than a regular potato and can grow to be 10 times bigger? fine, just don't go making bears with wings, the strength of an elephant, and the intelligence of a (SMART!) human
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Old 02-13-2004, 01:17 AM   #22
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Humans will do things because they have the will to do them, no matter what even if you stop the "Perfect humans" once, mankind will try it again, and eventually they will fail. Humans trying to play God? Humans have God-like abilities already, the power of a God is the power to create, just walk up to someone and kick them, this creates a conflict between two human minds, and to one human mind, it creates pain. Just think of reality as the Imperial Forces in Star Wars, and the humans as the Rebels, they will eventually conquer over everything no matter even if it means having a man that can lift twelve blue whales, run faster than a cheetah, and think greater than any one else. It's only a matter of time...
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Old 02-13-2004, 03:11 AM   #23
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I just got home from work, son, and i don't believe for a second the crap about the mutated protein providing immunity against hiv completely, which is why I asked all those questions to begin with. Mutation is so high among viruses because of their replication process that I doubt very much it is probable, but i am leaving open a bit of room for it because I remeber something about a person in Australia having a unique condition to something, but i don't know what.

Don't even step to me and try to make me believe you're intelligent. You know nothing of HIV and AIDS. I've watched a half dozen people die to it firsthand and for you to tell me it is incurable is a sham. It will kill more people, yes, but it will not destroy every last person in this world. That's impossible. Anything that happens in this world can be altered or stopped, the only reason it isn't is because we don't possess the knowledge yet to do so. I don't particulary like hearing people make claims like that on a forum, especially since so many of the readers don't know much about it and just take what they hear as truth. that's how lies are propogated. If you wish to seed your thoughts with regurgitation of real science, then do so elsewhere. I'm finished with this argument, Makaveli. You've proved nothing to me.
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Old 02-13-2004, 06:18 AM   #24
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well how are you gonna stop it....how is anyone gonna stop it....it cant be stopped, so logic says everyone will eventually be exposed to it sometime...it may take 500 years but it will happen if it isnt stopped...im not trying to prove anything to you...it quite apparent you know nothing of the immune system or aids or anything...please, the only arguement ever made was that you didnt think i knew what i was talking about...that arguement failed horribly, i showed you up like none other...the fact is you think you know so much and you havent said anything on the subject, which makes me to believe you really dont know anything...im pretty sure youre a moron...you would call something a lie without having a damn clue...i sighted some resources did you even look at them...yeah thats what i thought...facts are facts...and the fact is you dont know shit...so stfu please, youre making a fool of yourself and embarassing your fellow biologist

*EDIT* there really is no arguement at all because all im doing is stating fact...if you want to argue about facts go ahead...the only thing i said that can be argued was that everyone will be exposed to AIDS...and logic and common sense and time say that, that is true...of course i cant predict the future but the hypotheis makes sense, and there is no way, right now, that you can refute that hypothesis
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Old 02-13-2004, 03:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookG
I just got home from work, son, and i don't believe for a second the crap about the mutated protein providing immunity against hiv completely, which is why I asked all those questions to begin with. Mutation is so high among viruses because of their replication process that I doubt very much it is probable, but i am leaving open a bit of room for it because I remeber something about a person in Australia having a unique condition to something, but i don't know what.

Don't even step to me and try to make me believe you're intelligent. You know nothing of HIV and AIDS. I've watched a half dozen people die to it firsthand and for you to tell me it is incurable is a sham. It will kill more people, yes, but it will not destroy every last person in this world. That's impossible. Anything that happens in this world can be altered or stopped, the only reason it isn't is because we don't possess the knowledge yet to do so. I don't particulary like hearing people make claims like that on a forum, especially since so many of the readers don't know much about it and just take what they hear as truth. that's how lies are propogated. If you wish to seed your thoughts with regurgitation of real science, then do so elsewhere. I'm finished with this argument, Makaveli. You've proved nothing to me.
Ok, to start, I've always respected you a good deal, if only for the radio broadcast and all, but what you are saying is complete bullshit. Especially that you feel that you can talk down to makaveli ("son", "Don't even step to me and try to make me believe you're intelligent").

First off, I know nothing of this issue, so that's not what I'm going to address. I'd like to know, spook, just what it is you do that makes you such an expert on this. You said microbiologist earlier, and you seem to know a good bit about that, but I'm not sure. That would give me a bit more respect for your opinions, but still not much.

The way I see it is that you don't agree with makaveli's opinions and you question whether or not he knows what he's talking about. Obviously he does, seeing as he posted excellent support, however you retort with only that you don't believe him. You never give any support for your case. When you do bring it up you say that you have several friends who've had to deal with HIV/AIDS and you use that as though it entitles you to more intelligence on the topic. In reality though, it seems to me that it just ties you to the issue more emotionally and thus less logically.

As it stands, I'm more inclined to believe makaveli because you have come up with no support of your opinion spook.
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Old 02-14-2004, 02:23 AM   #26
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All right, fine.. You want support for my opinion? How about some common sense and a basic understanding of the disease.

HIV spreads through direct human contact. This is a huge thing to consider. Spit and sweat doesn't even cut it. Semen and blood, vaginal fluids. HIV can't survive very well outside of the human body, and it is unlikely it will evolve into a virus that can any time soon. That's why SARS was scary to health officials. It was airborn, and that makes the world of difference.

HIV infections were on a decline until about a year ago, because the preventive measures of education, sterilization of needles, arguments for safer sex, screening blood, etc.. It works, because it prevents direct contact. That means it can't spread any further.

So let's say it does kill off millions more and there is hardly anyone around. Well those who are left won't get infected then until they swap fluids with someone who is, and since it is harder for them to get to each other, i find this less likely to occur.

And another thing... People are living with AIDS longer, and death is subdued for a time because of drug treatments, but if that isn't good enough for you consider this. The culture of America is get it now instant or it can't be done, we're bored. Most people don't understand the molecular world is very complex. You know that watered down ATP chart you get in high school bio? The real one, involving the actual pathways, etc, is a surrealistic nightmare compared to it. And that is just a simple process. So much occurs on such a small scale, it is almost beyond comprehension, so it is very hard to deal with a disease on its own playing field, simply because in order to stop it we have to know entirely what is going on, and that takes time, a lot of time.

Given enough time and focus, like if finding a cure became a national effort, it can be done. But since everyone thinks the rainbow of terror alerts is more pressing and important, then it will hit backburner and the disease still is spreading. HIV will probably never be fully eradicated, but in the future it can at least become controlled and not as potent as it is now. The fault for it is not that science can't find a cure, it is in politics and people not giving a shit.
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Old 02-23-2004, 08:53 PM   #27
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everyone knows how HIV spreads...thats like third grade...people are living with aids longer, but is that a good thing...its a valid question, they can continue to spread the disease...it raises a huge moral issue...millions of people are worknig on aids/hiv...how many esteemed scientists do you think it will take...it has little to do with the man power...hiv mutates faster than any other virus, each one is practically its own strand (dont know if thats really opinion or fact)
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Old 02-24-2004, 07:29 AM   #28
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Recent studies have shown that some Africans are developing immunities to the disease, don't ask me where I got it, I saw it briefly on CNN.
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Old 02-24-2004, 04:22 PM   #29
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i wonder how they tested that...sounds fishy to me...
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Old 02-26-2004, 07:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
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karposi sarcoma is very bad...looking back at my last post i realized i said CD4s make CD8s and B cells...well, i wasnt thinking, CD4s activate the B cells into plasma cells and the CD8s into Killer T cells...that my fault...oh and the CD4s do this via interleukin II
Interleukin 2 is an antiviral medication!!!
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:07 PM   #31
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i dont know about that...but it certainly is a chemical released by helper t cells that turn the cytotoxic t cells into killer t cells...i can see it being an antiviral medication, because it could be an artificial way of stimulating that change in cd8 cells...and the cd8s, when killer ts definatley try to fight off viruses...i never thought of that before, but that makes sense
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Old 03-15-2004, 09:35 PM   #32
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well for 1 there will be segregation again because everyone will favor the super humans over the organic humans like white over black or whatever.
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Old 03-17-2004, 08:40 AM   #33
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if we have a race of super humans, then they'll all be the same and they won't be so super anymore. You know, like the movie Charly
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Old 03-17-2004, 04:54 PM   #34
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Watch GATTACA it's a good movie about this subject
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Old 03-18-2004, 10:26 PM   #35
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Bio engineering... heh

ILLUSION OF GAIA:
In a civilization so ancient that nothing of it remains today, the first great flowering of human knowledge produced remarkable breakthroughs in the sciences of biology and genetics. These nameless ancients used their knowledge to create new forms of plants and animals that would make life better on earth. Inevitably, some people twisted the science and modeled violent beasts of war with hideous intelligence. The monsters terrorized the people and the civilization began to crumble. In the end, two forces fought over the earth, the Knights of Light and Darkness. The ultimate weapon used in that war was a comet that blazed with radiation and a strange light. The coming of the comet destroyed that race and mutated many people and animals into evil forms, which then hid in the deepest recesses of the world. In the ages that followed, from the time of the Egyptians and Babylonians to the Incas, the comet continued to return every 800 years. And with the return of this Chaos Comet came times of darkness, destruction and disease. Fragmented legends of the comet's effects and clues about its origin were passed down to the civilizations that followed. But as those nations rose then fell and time turned their works to dust, only a few treasures remained hidden in the most ancient ruins of the world. Our story begins in the age of exploration, a time of great discoveries when brave explorers drew back the dark shrouds of fable and shed light on the ancient wonders. In that time, a party of adventurers from the seaside town of South Cape set off to unlock one of the greatest mysteries--the legendary Tower of Babel. Olman, the leader, led his fellow townsmen and even his son, Will, into the tower. But then something happened and the expedition was lost without a trace...except for one. Unfortunately, young Will couldn't remember what had happened, how he had been saved, or even how he managed to return home after his ordeal. Even stranger was the fact that Will now possessed the power to move objects through thought alone. The Illusion of Gaia follows Will and his companions as they seek the answers to the lost expedition. As they begin their journey, the don't suspect that it will eventually lead them around the globe or that the fate of the planet lies in their inexperienced hands. They'll have to learn and grow and mold their characters into the stuff of heroes as they face the monsters created by the comet in past ages. Not all of the friends complete the journey. Some may turn aside to discover new destinies. And along the way, help may arrive from un-expected quarters--from Gaia, the spirit of the earth, and Freedan, a powerful knight, and from the mysterious Shadow. But Will must go the entire distance, fighting every battle and returning to the Tower of Babel where he must attempt to end the plague of the comet and to find out what happened to his father. And where Will goes, you go as well. (Cheesy video game music comes to a halt)

Like robots, unfortunately, humans can become a hybrid, ones that don't know right from wrong, and they do what they are told. We may become slaves to ourselves.

Genetic engineering and brainwashing are immoral - no matter what one thinks of it. They may be ignorant, but that's about as far as their argument should go. Everything else is a vain attempt to justify what one is doing to human life.

Then again, if one doesn't care, and if they are their own boss, they can do whatever they like, right?
Do you affect truth, or does truth affect you?

Truth is like the Granite slab in Yosemite...you throw yourself against it, but...that doesn't change where the granite stands...and you may break a few bones.
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