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Old 06-12-2007, 07:04 PM   #21
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

My answer to that question regarding anything: Not if a scientist can eventually retrieve the lost data on technology or recreate the data that they might have had using the knowledge that they have.

Also, regarding the idea of a robot, they can either be designed to have personal feelings and live for themselves or as robots that simply serve human beings. Humans would reserve the right to choose what they would intend to create robots for because we would create these robots. As for the idea of what would happen to jobs and the economy, that's a good issue that we can debate. As for what the consequences of destroying a robot should be, that's also another good issue to debate.

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Old 06-12-2007, 07:25 PM   #22
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_of_the_Faster
My answer to that question regarding anything: Not if a scientist can eventually retrieve the lost data on technology or recreate the data that they might have had using the knowledge that they have.
So basically you're saying that because scientists will be able to go back and retrieve any lost information, if such a phenomenon as every piece of technology in the world becoming disabled should occur, we won't be primitive. If we can dig under the earth and find dusty blueprints of brain chips we can reproduce them and everything will be normal again.

Let's just assume that the kind of technology we've been talking about is computers and other devices of an electronic nature, because the invention of the wheel is considered an advancement in technology.

Since there is no electronic technology functioning anywhere in the world, you're saying we need to look at pen-and-paper records describing that technology, so we can re-create it. We would need to uproot nearly every single advancement in electronic technology in the history of mankind in order to re-create something as advanced as a brain chip. We would need to start from scratch, essentially. Do you think, realistically, that we'd be able to find all of the information we would need?

Now I bet that you'll probably respond with something like, "Well, not necessarily because we'll have the knowledge from before the brain chips malfunctioned." But again, let's be realistic. Would a scientist need to know the explicit inner workings of every major advancement in electronic technology just in case something as catastrophic as the disabling of all electronic technology in the world were to happen? I doubt it, in fact I think it would be ridiculous for a brain chip to feed such information to someone automatically. No one ever thinks something that catastrophic will ever happen until it does. (i.e. September 11th)

Also, what if you ask me if I want a brain chip and I say no? Don't you think that there are going to be people who won't want a brain chip? Or are you forcing everyone to have one? If you aren't, which, if I read what you thought about the Constitution correctly, you aren't, then isn't it possible that there will be many people who won't want a brain chip?
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Old 06-12-2007, 07:49 PM   #23
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

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Originally Posted by Ground_Breaker View Post
So basically you're saying that because scientists will be able to go back and retrieve any lost information, if such a phenomenon as every piece of technology in the world becoming disabled should occur, we won't be primitive. If we can dig under the earth and find dusty blueprints of brain chips we can reproduce them and everything will be normal again.

Let's just assume that the kind of technology we've been talking about is computers and other devices of an electronic nature, because the invention of the wheel is considered an advancement in technology.

Since there is no electronic technology functioning anywhere in the world, you're saying we need to look at pen-and-paper records describing that technology, so we can re-create it. We would need to uproot nearly every single advancement in electronic technology in the history of mankind in order to re-create something as advanced as a brain chip. We would need to start from scratch, essentially. Do you think, realistically, that we'd be able to find all of the information we would need?

Now I bet that you'll probably respond with something like, "Well, not necessarily because we'll have the knowledge from before the brain chips malfunctioned." But again, let's be realistic. Would a scientist need to know the explicit inner workings of every major advancement in electronic technology just in case something as catastrophic as the disabling of all electronic technology in the world were to happen? I doubt it, in fact I think it would be ridiculous for a brain chip to feed such information to someone automatically. No one ever thinks something that catastrophic will ever happen until it does. (i.e. September 11th)
Well, I know that the idea of brain chips might be rediculous of how a person might want to store something in their mind, but it's really up to the user (hopefully). They would either be able to store what they want in their mind for ever or temporary ideas that are stored in the brainchips themselves. The idea that a catastrophic condition would occur with probably futuristic terrorists and we would have to respond (a future gov't issue that would be debated if happened by some sort of futuristic conservatives and liberals or what ever parties may exist). I know that trying to recreate the brain chips themselves would be probably a difficult task for a scientist if they didn't keep the knowledge inside their mind using a brain chip, but I feel as though they could still recreate computers and make these computers function to see if blueprints are still on them. A scientist would not need to recreate every single thing in technology, but just enough to be able to make back up brain chips. As for if the knowledge on brain chips in the computers is lost, I'm afraid the people would either have to work with what they know or can find in some written blueprints (seems highly unlikely, but is still a possibility).

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Also, what if you ask me if I want a brain chip and I say no? Don't you think that there are going to be people who won't want a brain chip? Or are you forcing everyone to have one? If you aren't, which, if I read what you thought about the Constitution correctly, you aren't, then isn't it possible that there will be many people who won't want a brain chip?
Yes, people could choose to not have brainchips, but I think that if everyone is smart to the same degree (with their own uniqueness), they can help society and not be kept away by it. I think that if you refuse a brainchip, the futuristic society might keep you away from them or something (I would hate to see discrimination in the future, but it's possible). Unless you don't trust the functions of a brainchip, I don't see why a person would refuse to have one. I believe that you could buy a brain chip and obtain only the knowledge that you want and take it off if you wish.

Edit: However, I do believe that people who don't have brain chips might not get as much income as people with brain chips or robots. I think that certain futuristic job fields would require the use of such technology unless you can prove that with your bare mind, you are capable of functioning at an extremely high rate (probably not possible) or if you already have enough knowledge to perform a job if you remove your brain chip. I have no opinions on this idea, but I think that society might think along these lines with such technology.

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Old 06-12-2007, 08:01 PM   #24
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

Most of the "what if's" are taken care of in the development process of modern technology, and it's likely that even will be even more true as it progresses. Doubtful this situation could ever be possible.
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Old 06-12-2007, 08:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

I understand that my reasoning may be a bit hypothetical as it seems, but I'm just using one idea of a future to represent the idea that the advancement of technology might make us primitive in the long run, but only under certain circumstances. If scientists cannot retrieve lost data or something on technology, then yes the technology would make us primitive at a time. However, you never know if technology might go from the years 2007 to 2315 and back to (after hypothetical incident) 2007 to 2315 and then progress. If that was the case, technology would technically be progressing, but probably not as far as the people in 2315 would be living. The idea of progressing in technology really has to do with what you guys refer to as "the long run".

Edit: To me, "the long run" means three things. As far as the sun doesn't blow up (perhaps there might be a way to stop this but I extremely doubt it), as far as technology to make humans live for ever (I would doubt this, but I would definatly hope that it's possible), or as far as time goes on for (in which case, the idea of what time really means is debated).

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Old 06-12-2007, 08:19 PM   #26
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_of_the_Faster
Well, I know that the idea of brainchips might be rediculous of how a person might want to store something in their mind
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not so I won't snap back at you like I was planning to.

I don't think that the idea of a brain chip storing information in your mind somehow is ridiculous, I think that it would be ridiculous for a brain chip to give you the information you would need to counter such a widespread catastrophe, should it occur, because it would be like describing the theory of relativity to a plumber: he doesn't care. Not that we wouldn't care, but it's like I said, no one thinks something like that will happen until it does, so it would be unnecessary to have a brain chip give you that information really.

As for the rest of your first paragraph, I think it's mostly speculation about what you think might happen in the future. Except for:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_of_the_Faster
A scientist would not need to recreate every single thing in technology, but just enough to be able to make back up brain chips.
I disagree.

Think about this: Where did all of the information on the brain chip come from? Did it come with the brain chip when you bought it? Does it come from a remote database somewhere that has everything everyone has ever known in the entire world? Do you go in for upgrades at certain intervals to receive new information that's been added?

Obviously, we don't live in a world where brain chips are an everyday thing, but my point is that the information would have to come from somewhere, and it would most likely come from another computer. But, like we said, all electronic technology has been wiped out, so what would we do?

If you're about to say, "Well, stupid, we rebuild the computer," then how are we supposed to put all of the lost data back onto the computer once it's been destroyed, even if we do manage to somehow rebuild it? Even rebuilding the computer itself would be next to impossible, because we would need to find records of how to create all the components that make up a computer.

I'd say that what you're describing is highly implausible, realistically speaking.

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Originally Posted by Master_of_the_Faster
Yes, people could choose to not have brainchips, but I think that if everyone is smart to the same degree (with their own uniqueness), they can help society and not be kept away by it. I think that if you refuse a brainchip, the futuristic society might keep you away from them or something (I would hate to see discrimination in the future, but it's possible). Unless you don't trust the functions of a brainchip, I don't see why a person would refuse to have one. I believe that you could buy a brain chip and obtain only the knowledge that you want and take it off if you wish.
So you're saying that if you had a brain chip and I decided to figure stuff out the old-fashioned way, you would probably ostracize me? You're talking about some high-tech segregation, my friend.

I could refuse a brain chip because I don't like the inventor. Does that necessarily mean I don't trust the technology? I don't think so.
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:06 PM   #27
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

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I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not so I won't snap back at you like I was planning to.
I wasn't being sarcastic and I don't plan to start a war about the future, but simply a discussion. I just wasn't that sure about what you meant about brain chips being rediculous.

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I don't think that the idea of a brain chip storing information in your mind somehow is ridiculous, I think that it would be ridiculous for a brain chip to give you the information you would need to counter such a widespread catastrophe, should it occur, because it would be like describing the theory of relativity to a plumber: he doesn't care. Not that we wouldn't care, but it's like I said, no one thinks something like that will happen until it does, so it would be unnecessary to have a brain chip give you that information really.
Even in what I would call the future that I described, I would not force anyone to have any knowledge of any sort with brain chips. It's just that I feel as though the people themselves might enforce certain futuristic standards (not me). If information gathered on a brain chip is possible and if someone decides to store that information luckily, we would probably be able to understand how the brain chip was made or experiment with what he/she knows.

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Think about this: Where did all of the information on the brain chip come from? Did it come with the brain chip when you bought it? Does it come from a remote database somewhere that has everything everyone has ever known in the entire world? Do you go in for upgrades at certain intervals to receive new information that's been added?

Obviously, we don't live in a world where brain chips are an everyday thing, but my point is that the information would have to come from somewhere, and it would most likely come from another computer. But, like we said, all electronic technology has been wiped out, so what would we do?

If you're about to say, "Well, stupid, we rebuild the computer," then how are we supposed to put all of the lost data back onto the computer once it's been destroyed, even if we do manage to somehow rebuild it? Even rebuilding the computer itself would be next to impossible, because we would need to find records of how to create all the components that make up a computer.

I'd say that what you're describing is highly implausible, realistically speaking.
You have a good point there. Unfortunatly, we probably would have to do next to the impossible to create all the components that make up a computer. We might even have to completely start from scratch with our technology, but we would progress eventually (though I doubt not any time in the expected life time of people who had brain chips and now have to create just a computer that may or may not have information on the components of a brain chip). I know that my instance is highly implausible, but so is the instance that every piece of electronic technology would be wiped out.


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Originally Posted by Ground_Breaker View Post
So you're saying that if you had a brain chip and I decided to figure stuff out the old-fashioned way, you would probably ostracize me? You're talking about some high-tech segregation, my friend.

I could refuse a brain chip because I don't like the inventor. Does that necessarily mean I don't trust the technology? I don't think so.
As for this, you can choose to refuse brain chips for what ever reason you so choose. I just feel as though society would probably use high tech segregation in the future (not me). If you had a lot of knowledge from the brain chip, wouldn't you get mad if you weren't hired because a person without a brain chip was hired over you? Again, I have no stance on this idea, but it's just interesting that I think of it.

Edit: Also, hopefully, even a person without a brain chip could still have other careers. For example, maybe there might be some sort of break throughs in science, but a brain chip itself could probably not provide a person with enough strength to play a sport (but simply the knowledge in playing the sport). There might be other futuristic careers that just about anyone could occupy without the need of brain chips.

In my opinion, if brain chips were made, they would have to rely on the internet as well as other sources to provide facts that may have to go through filtering by some sort of agency of the future (so that objectionable material can be filtered out). You would be able to choose what things that you wanted to learn like learning how to speak a certain language or how to do math. Perhaps at every single place where careers are held, they might hold special information to add to your brain chip so that you automatically know how to do something in that field. The brain chips could have universal upgrades for everyone that includes certain items that a futuristic agency would have to inform society of.

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Old 06-12-2007, 09:27 PM   #28
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

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Originally Posted by Master_of_the_Faster
I know that my instance is highly implausible, but so is the instance that every piece of electronic technology would be wiped out.
Well, yeah. We're both speaking hypothetically here. I'm just using the destruction of all electronic technology as a catalyst for our discussion. The question is whether or not we become more primitive as a result of our reliability on technology. If the technology isn't removed at some point, then there's no discussion.

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Originally Posted by Master_of_the_Faster
If you had a lot of knowledge from the brain chip, wouldn't you get mad if you weren't hired because a person with a brain chip was hired over you?
No, because it wouldn't happen. Equal treatment laws would most definitely extend to those without brain chips, assuming the majority of the population had them.

But, what job could we possibly be applying for that a robot hasn't already fulfilled at this point in the future?

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Originally Posted by Master_of_the_Faster
In my opinion, if brain chips were made, they would have to rely on the internet as well as other sources to provide facts that may have to go through filtering by some sort of agency of the future (so that objectionable material can be filtered out). You would be able to choose what things that you wanted to learn like learning how to speak a certain language or how to do math. Perhaps at every single place where careers are held, they might hold special information to add to your brain chip so that you automatically know how to do something in that field. The brain chips could have universal upgrades for everyone that includes certain items that a futuristic agency would have to inform society of.
At this rate, you'll be getting patents for it soon!
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:50 PM   #29
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

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Well, yeah. We're both speaking hypothetically here. I'm just using the destruction of all electronic technology as a catalyst for our discussion. The question is whether or not we become more primitive as a result of our reliability on technology. If the technology isn't removed at some point, then there's no discussion.
Well, if all technology was destroyed and if there was no information for brain chips, then we would probably go back to figuring out how things worked like we did before computers and other electronic technologies were invented. We would be a bit "primitive", but I doubt that we would stay that way for ever unless the human race dies out all togather.

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No, because it wouldn't happen. Equal treatment laws would most definitely extend to those without brain chips, assuming the majority of the population had them.

But, what job could we possibly be applying for that a robot hasn't already fulfilled at this point in the future?
True, having equal rights is very important to me and I guess a lot of jobs would be dominated by robots, but I think we would be living in a much better world. I mean do you honestly want to risk your life to save others when a robot meant to serve humans could do it for you? If the world was as good as I would expect, then I wouldn't have to risk my life to save others, but I suppose that with the combined effort of bad guys (some that may be turned bad by hacked brain chips [might I say would probably be one of the worst offenses of the future]) and bad robots (some turned bad by hackers [another very bad offense]), both humans and robots can team up to capture these bad robots and humans as well as save people. I would say that comedians and sports players have nothing to do with technology such as a brain chip. Considering that humans are humans and robots might be very hard beings (unless of course they have fake skin to mock that of humans or are soft in a way), the robots might have their own sports divisions while humans have theirs. Perhaps cyborgs would be allowed in the robot sports teams if they met certain requirements. Also, people can still be comedians without brain chips or with brain chips. After all, some people argue that robots can't tell jokes (but that's because they probably don't imagine a robot that has a mind of its own).

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At this rate, you'll be getting patents for it soon!
That would be awesome! The problem is that I'm not smart enough to make such technology or anything, but I have a feeling it's possible.

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Old 06-13-2007, 12:26 AM   #30
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

well there will always be one fat mechanic left to help. or the robots can be programed to fix robots. and by the time all that will happen earth is long gone
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:43 AM   #31
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

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Of course we wouldn't act that primitively. Not in today's world. But we're talking about a world where technology does just about everything for us. Think about it. If technology does everything for us, what is the point of even going to school to learn anything? We won't ever need to apply that knowledge anywhere, because a machine has taken over that job for us. We may not ever need to learn multiplication or advanced language capabilities.

Now, if all that technology is destroyed or is lost somehow, will we be primitive?
We wouldn't be primitive, we'd be vegetables.
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:44 AM   #32
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What if simple tasks like eating had been taken care of by robots in this future, and we had forgotten how to; then the machinery used to do it was no more? What would become of the world then?
i dont think were going to forget how to eat.
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Old 06-13-2007, 04:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

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Originally Posted by Master_of_the_Faster
We would be a bit "primitive", but I doubt that we would stay that way for ever unless the human race dies out all togather.
Well we probably wouldn't stay that way forever, you're right. Needless to say, though, that as much as we rely on technology even today, it would take a long time.

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we'd be vegetables.
Well I don't think we'd be vegetables (according to the medical definition) because we would still have motor function and brain activity, but I think we would have very little understanding of how to take care of ourselves.

That said, I do think human instinct would still be there, meaning we would probably look for food and shelter and other basic necessities of life. But outside of that, we probably wouldn't know much better, so I'd say we are pretty primitive at that point.

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i dont think were going to forget how to eat.
Neither do I, because I don't think robots are going to ever hand-feed us. They might cook and prepare our meals, but we aren't going to really need a robot to take care of the action of lifting our hands to our mouths so we don't have to expend the energy.
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Old 06-13-2007, 05:40 PM   #34
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

Yeah, some people seem to have a little overdone of an opinion about just how many elements of our day-to-day life people are going to subordinate to technology.

I'm a very techy person, I use a lot of elements of technology for many many things. That said, I can still grow and harvest crops, and prepare them into food using an open fire. Sure if suddenly all technology ceased functioning, life would be -harder- that doesn't necessarily mean "worse"
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:08 PM   #35
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

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Sure if suddenly all technology ceased functioning, life would be -harder- that doesn't necessarily mean "worse"
Not for you. But for people like me, who can't grow and harvest crops (to the point where they'll be safe to eat) and who do rely a lot on technology, life would be worse because there would be a lot more work involved in everyday life. I equate harder work with being worse. Lazy? Yeah, probably. But there are a lot of people who share the same view as I do.

Anyway, it's being primitive that we're talking about here, not as much the quality of life.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:41 PM   #36
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

Well I'm not so sure it would make us as primitive as it would lazy. I think the more we rely on technology the more people would expect everything to go their way without having to lift a finger.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

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Not for you. But for people like me, who can't grow and harvest crops (to the point where they'll be safe to eat) and who do rely a lot on technology, life would be worse because there would be a lot more work involved in everyday life.
Do you possess any kind of useful skill or ability that you could use in barter for food from those who are skilled in acquiring and preparing it?

Given a lack of technology, bartering would become far more common, and if you don't possess -any- skills that would be of use in the event of some global catastrophe, that might be something to put on your list of new year's resolutions come January.
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:10 PM   #38
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

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i dont think were going to forget how to eat.
Okay, I don't mean that one day we're going to wake up and not know how to eat. I mean that over time, eating requires less effort than it does currently (however that would work.. maybe automatic feeding tubes that feed you with just the right amount of nutrients three times daily?), and if we lose access to whatever it is that allowed us to eat effortlessly, then will those who never learned how to swallow (because that isn't a skill that you're born with) be able to learn how to feed themselves before they die of starvation?

To answer my own question, I think that if we were to lose technology, we would go back to the ways of the pilgrims, and progress back to where we are now, faster than had happened in the future, and with the knowledge of the mistake we had made in the 'futuristic past,' so to speak. I don't think now that our civilization would decrease to past the pilgrim age.
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Lol, there sure are a lot of mods in here.
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:12 PM   #39
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

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Originally Posted by jewpinthethird View Post
We wouldn't be primitive, we'd be vegetables.
I agree.
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Originally Posted by ShastaTwist View Post
Lol, there sure are a lot of mods in here.
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:44 PM   #40
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Default Re: Will rapidly advancing technology make us primitive in the long run?

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Okay, I don't mean that one day we're going to wake up and not know how to eat. I mean that over time, eating requires less effort than it does currently (however that would work.. maybe automatic feeding tubes that feed you with just the right amount of nutrients three times daily?), and if we lose access to whatever it is that allowed us to eat effortlessly, then will those who never learned how to swallow (because that isn't a skill that you're born with) be able to learn how to feed themselves before they die of starvation?
This is such a dramatically over-the-top example of where you're trying to come from, that I have difficulty taking it seriously.
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